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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMichael Eric Dyson on Betsy Ross Flag Symbolism: 'Why Don't We Wear a Swastika for July Fourth?'
Michael Eric Dyson on Betsy Ross Flag Symbolism: Why Dont We Wear a Swastika for July Fourth?
By Caleb Howe Jul 3rd, 2019, 12:33 pm
-snip-
After a report outlining the controversy to date, anchor Jackson asked Dyson, can you explain why this particular flag, this symbol, is so offensive to some?
Well it hails from the Revolutionary period, of course, of this nations founding, which was deeply embroiled in, you know, enslavement, of the owners of slaves, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and the like, Dyson began. But also its the recent use of this flag that has been most opprobrious. Right-wing white supremacists have used it as a rallying cry for their own cause.
And none of these flags are kind of set in stone, right? said Dyson. Its depending upon the culture in which you live, the moral ecology of the time.
So right now, this flag has been used by people who want to pummel African Americans, Latinx, Jews and other people. Neo-nazis who want to claim they have the true copyright on American identity, he explained. So why not choose a flag that is representative of everybody? The diversity of identities, ideologies, and people of color and mainstream people who happen to exist in this country?
Thats the kind of blow-back against the use of this particular flag, he said.
What do you make of those who say, listen, why let those sort of right-wing white supremacists groups win? Why not reclaim will flag, if you will, asked Jackson.
That would be beautiful, Dyson replied. I dont hear anything coming from the right about that. I dont hear them going, hey, this is not we believe
And you think the onus is on the right do that? Jackson interjected.
Well, yeah, because the left is responding. Theyre saying this is problematic. Theyre giving their interpretation, he said.
-snip-
more + video
https://www.mediaite.com/politics/michael-eric-dyson-on-betsy-ross-flag-symbolism-why-dont-we-wear-a-swastika-for-july-fourth/
Amishman
(5,541 posts)When this nation was founded, it had many qualities that are extremely offensive to our modern sensibilities. It was also a radically progressive government for it's era, and a huge leap forward for the human race as a whole. Just look at the number of democracies that have been founded using our government as a model.
The Betsy Ross flag should not be held in contempt, it represents a great leap forward. Reserve that scorn and the swastika comparison for the Confederate battle flag
hlthe2b
(101,730 posts)Not arguing against African American viewpoints on the 13 colony flag, which I admittedly did not know had been appropriated by white supremacists, but there is quite a bit of unpleasant symbolism in our current flag.
Response to DonViejo (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
brewens
(13,400 posts)Confederate battle flag. We will be seeing it used like that now though.
zackymilly
(2,375 posts)JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,283 posts)Yellow, with a snake, and the words "Don't Tread on Me".
Celerity
(42,666 posts)in the past, but NOW, the fuckers WILL use it all the time, so the cat is out of the bag. As a person of colour, I was never upset at the sight of the 'Betsy Ross' flag, and I find it stupid to cede yet another symbol to the bad and evil side. Nazi girls wear skirts and Doc Martens at times, like fuck if I stop doing that at times just because those fuckers do.
If you follow this (the anti-Betsy Ross flag) line of logic, most all national symbolism from pre-civil war times could be accused of representing a slaver nation. It is going to become yet another cultural clusterfuck I fear.
here are previous examples of white nationalists and nazis using it
Members of the largest neo-Nazi organization in the country, the National Socialist Movement, held up the flag during an anti-immigration rally in Columbia, South Carolina, in 2007.
brewens
(13,400 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Link to tweet
/photo/1
Celerity
(42,666 posts)where will it end?
Gadsden flag motif (that flag is also used by white nationalists and neo nazis)
roscoeroscoe
(1,369 posts)Please can we focus on issues that mean something? This is just pointless. I wouldn't defend Kap or Nike for a second - the American flag, whatever year, is the symbol for all of us.
Maybe it's because I'm a 25 year Army vet, still serving. I salute at attention for reveille and retreat.
I fully supported Kap's protests, but that moment has passed and trying to pass judgement on flags on sneakers is reaching too far, and asking for pointless backlash.
Delarage
(2,182 posts)Kids in cages, climate change, wealth disparity, Russian interference, cozying up with creeps (S.Arabia, N. Korea, Russia), propping up fossil fuels, opiod epidemic, health care. And we're talking about sneakers (?)
sarisataka
(18,220 posts)But prior to these shoes I cannot recall on DU, or anywhere else, a reference that the Betsy Ross style flag was offensive, racist or symbolic of slavery.
Suddenly however it is equivalent to a swastika?
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Last edited Fri Jul 5, 2019, 11:32 AM - Edit history (1)
I wont presume to know their motives, but I have my suspicions.
Edit to add that this post is NOT directed at this OP, but at certain others who enjoy creating division here.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)Something we are bound to stop using it?
I guess Dyson does not realize realize we are falling right into their trap.
The RW are doing a lot of this shit to poke us in the eye and get a reaction from us. They are quite explicit about that.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)Ridiculous I tell them its an ancient symbol of well being to me . I do not have a problem with it and will not bend !
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)Bonx
(2,041 posts)Celerity
(42,666 posts)Crunchy Frog
(26,548 posts)By exactly the same logic, it's a racist holiday that celebrates slavery, and everything in our nation at the time that was regressive by today's standards.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)I recommend reading the entire speech. https://www.thenation.com/article/what-slave-fourth-july-frederick-douglass/
Crunchy Frog
(26,548 posts)Next time I take my sons to the fireworks, I'll explain to them that it's because our family is racist and fascist. I'm sure that will help to improve their moral character.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)If that's what you got out of Frederick Douglass' thoughtful speech, ok.
Crunchy Frog
(26,548 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)I just feel sorry for you.
Crunchy Frog
(26,548 posts)lunasun
(21,646 posts)Dyson said the flag could be reclaimed from far-right groups to educate Americans on the Revolutionary War era in the United States but added that people should advocate for racial justice issues before they rail against "PC culture."
Will not define or name the majority because talk about defensive snowflakes
SMC22307
(8,088 posts)a period "deeply embroiled in, you know, enslavement..." Some things from that time period are OK, evidently, others not so much.
I'm opposed to Confederate symbolism but Colin, et al. have lost me on the Betsy Ross flag. Going after a flag purportedly made by a Quaker, abolitionist, American Revolutionary widow (2x), and single mother is truly idiotic. This is not a winning issue for the Democratic Party.
"That would be beautiful," Dyson says. OK, I'll display the Betsy Ross flag next to my 2020 Democratic candidate bumper sticker. Consider it reclaimed.
fishwax
(29,146 posts)Nike created a shoe. Some people let them know that their shoe would likely be really popular with white supremacist groups. They decided to drop it. BFD. I don't get it.
Crunchy Frog
(26,548 posts)It's about people having just decided that the Betsy Ross flag is an offensive symbol of racism and slavery, or even the equivalent of the swastika.
I couldn't care less about Nike. I do care about all our national symbols being appropriated by the far right, and the rest of us happily giving them away.
stonecutter357
(12,682 posts)RobinA
(9,878 posts)does the cross come down? Ku Kluxers carry crosses, they burn crosses, they have crosses on insignia.
To be honest, I don't fly my 50-starred flag anymore because it's too identified with the military and the right wing. I used to fly it for the IDEALS it stood for.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)There's the real scandal in Dyson's remarks: "Well, yeah."
Why aren't conservatives publicly opposing the white supremacists in their midst? Where is their equivalent of antifa? Where is the Republican leadership speaking out against white supremacists and their appropriation of American symbols?