Has the economy materially improved since Obama?

[Yavin4]

It seems to be exactly the same. The only difference was the surge in the stock market which was related to the corporate tax cut. Other than that, nothing seems to have improved since Obama.

The tax cuts, saved for the surge in the stock market in 2017, does not seem to have really boosted hiring or incomes beyond reasonable expectation levels. In fact, given the massive tax cuts couple with the 11th year of low interest rates, we should be seeing even lower unemployment and skyrocketing wage increases, but we're not.

If anything we should be doing much better economically than we are.

[onecaliberal]

1. No, it's worse in so many ways.

[tblue37]

30. Apropos cartoon:

[Bettie]

2. The cost of things required for daily living

keep going up. My grocery bill, for example (buying the same stuff, in the same amounts) has gone up at least by half.

Everything costs a lot more.

[Yavin4]

3. That's the by-product of having zero to low interest rates for over 11 years

Inflation is much higher than is being reported.

[KT2000]

8. Agree

most utilities have gone up, food is up, rents are way up, internet service has gone nuts, insurance increased. I'm not seeing the great economy.

[TheRealNorth]

4. Was shocked to see bacon selling for over $6 a pound when I last went shopping

This is happening at the same time I hear that hog prices are low. But then I read an article about Wall Street buying up food companies, and I see that they are only doing to food what they have done for insulin prices.

I don't even know if our anti-monopoly laws would work against these hedge funds that have controlling interests in these companies.

[Blue_true]

10. There is a massive amount of speculation and profiteering in the economy.

When things start going down, it's going to be a landslide. Trump has been riding the economic glide path that President Obama set up, that won't last.

[TheRealNorth]

16. Hedge Funds tend to ruin any food company or restaurant chain they touch

They ruined Famous Dave's, and are on the way to ruining BW3's.

[Blue_true]

17. What is Famous Dave's and BW3's?

Businesses vary by region of the country. I have never heard of either in my part of the country. You likely have never heard of Publix, which is a grocery chain that is very big in Florida.

[GulfCoast66]

19. Still family owned. And still the best grocery store I have shopped in.

From what I can tell they treat their help well. I know 2 kids who worked their thru high school and college at Publix and are now store managers making 6 figures.

They had some trouble over a decade ago with gender parity, but from what I can to tell that has been addressed. I now see quite a few female managers.

[Blue_true]

20. It is a good chain. Some think that it is pricy, but I have no issue with it.

Excellent selection, quality always first rate, checkout is typically fast.

[GulfCoast66]

22. Try their store brands. High quality at reasonable costs.

Example is their laundry detergent. $2.99 for 50 ozs. Tide is around $8. And I could go on.

And often it is the same stuff in a different package.

[Blue_true]

23. Not all detergents are the same.

Some store brands are crap. I stay with national brands for detergent and bleach, just learned that the results are more consistent.

[GulfCoast66]

25. Normally I agree on things like detergents. But give Publix's a try.

The wife is sensitive to perfume and such in detergents. So we used Tide free for years.

Then she actually brought home the first bottle of Publix Free detergent. We would both swear it is the same stuff. And I’m not at all opposed to paying more for a better product.

I’m from Louisiana. French heritage. I can eat mayonnaise buy the spoonful! I swear the Publix stuff is made by Blue Plate, the Mayo I grew up on. That said. Publix has either Hellman’s or Duke’s, both solid mayonnaise, on BOGO so often I very seldom need to buy their brand. But I will occasionally still spring for Blue Plate. We go thru a lot of mayo. I even do homemade pretty regularly.

I’m generally a retail kind of guy. Would rather lay sod all day than go into a Wal-Mart. But Publix brand stuff is very good.

Kind of hijacked this thread I guess!

[katmondoo]

34. I love Publix, my daughter works for Publix and she is treated very well.

[redstateblues]

31. Publix is in TN. It's good but more expensive than Kroger.

[hack89]

5. It has spread

Many red areas lagged blue areas by 4- 5 years. Even then rural areas are stilling dying.

[Blue_true]

11. Actually it is more than 12 years.

Rural places have not recovered from the Great Recession yet, or the decline they were in before the Great Recession hit them. You are right, most of rural places are dying, I see that in my county, but even in my city, which is a small Florida city, we can't maintain more than one or two fine dining places, most people that want that have to go to Blue, progressive Gainesville.

[NewJeffCT]

6. Not really - the economy

has slowed a bit in terms of job creation since Trump became president. However, it was already moving nicely in the right direction for several years under Obama, and jobs have continued on that same path.

The biggest difference won't be felt immediately, but is because of the gigantic debt and deficit that Is being run up because of the Trump/Ryan tax scam. The increase in GDP is largely attributed to the huge deficit spending we did last year

[Yavin4]

9. Deficit spending that creates jobs and builds things like better transportation systems

have a net positive effect over time. There's nothing wrong with smart deficit spending. Deficit spending by giving tax breaks to the already rich and powerful is an example of stupid deficit spending.

[Blue_true]

12. Bush II proved the point that you made.

Bad deficit spending via tax cuts for the rich, along with too easy money wrecked the economy. Wall Street loves easy money, but what they do with it is increase speculation, not fund new production or startups, that is difficult work where a return won't be seen for a decade, if at all. Wall Street want a surer thing, so they set their computer driven trading to take advantage of the smallest change in a stock's price, all with casino like frenzy. People like Jamie Dimon love that nonsense.

[Yavin4]

14. Think about the benefits of deficit spending to improve the physical conditions of every public...

school in America. Ensuring that every school has the resources to prepare future generations for future work. Yes, there would be a deficit but it would also pay off in the future as there would be less people unprepared for a rapidly changing economy.

[Johnny2X2X]

7. Trump tax rates went into effect in 2018

The 2017 stock market rally that brought us close to the present levels happened under Obama’s tax rates and Obama’s budget.

[Yavin4]

15. The 2017 stock market rally was in anticipation of the tax cut which was a certainty

given the make up of the congress and the WH. Traders knew that buy backs were coming in 2018. So, you take a position in 2017.

[lagomorph777]

13. Since Obama came in? Yes. Since he left? No.

Trump hasn't completely destroyed it yet, but he has laid all the seeds for a far worse crash than the Bush Crash.

[Blue_true]

18. I agree.

I honestly have not seen structural improvement in the economy since early 2016, even as the stock market has moved up and down. I am seeing businesses close and others that are hanging on by their toenails.

[GulfCoast66]

28. Yep. He took away the best tool the government had for fighting a recession.

Only a person that listens to Art Laffer would cut taxes in a booming economy. Which Obama gave him.

When the next recession hits, and it will, debt will be 2 trillion a year. Cause there are no taxes left to cut. We will have to borrow our way out of it. Which Obama had to do in 09 because of the Bush tax cuts. The sad thing is the super rich know this. But they got the money. They don’t care. And faux news have convinced Americans making 50k a year that tax cut will improve their lives! They aren’t paying much anyway.

Our tax rate on upper middle class and upper class folks(which includes me) should be 20-40 percent higher.

But oh well, trickled down and all that Bullshit.

[GulfCoast66]

21. Depends who you ask.

My wife and have done very well.

But we are not the average Americans. Both work for the same company for over 30 years, mid level managers with a good pension and have been contributing to our 401K for 30 years. The last 3 years have helped us. But hell, we did not need the help. We were doing just as well under President Obama. If anything we should pay more taxes.

The people working for an hourly wage, even a very good one by Florida standards keep going backwards. Yeah, they get a union negotiated raise of 2-3 percent most years. But that is not enough. They are ill prepared to pay for college and have a poor pension plan. Yeah, they have a company matching 401K, but I doubt many can put more than the minimum to get the company match. Housing prices are out of control and there are no mid priced homes being built. Most new homes start at around 300k. Try paying that making $3000 a month. These are the majority of the country and this economy is not working for them. And my company is as good as it gets for hourly employees. Next year the starting wage for all positions goes to $15. Most in Florida do far worse.

Pisses me off to no end hearing rich or well of people criticizing the poor and working class for not saving. If you are making $20 hour with 2 kids it is almost impossible to save much at all.

Like many on DU I have always been against means testing for SS, but I am beginning to change my mind. At the minimum we should eliminate the cap and make people pay on all their earnings. And for gods sake, a low capital gains tax does little to juice the economy. Make if very high for over a couple of million. That would protect farmers and small business owners but would really help level the playing field.

As it stands now few Americans are able to retire at 65. Some never can.

[Poiuyt]

24. GDP is up, stock market is up, but those indicators only help the 1%

Real income (adjusted for inflation) has remained stagnant since about 1980.

Wealth disparity is one of the biggest problems affecting this country, but as long as the neoliberals are in power, nothing will be done to correct the gap/

[GulfCoast66]

29. They don't just help the 1%. And that's the problem.

They help 20-25% of the population. The wife and I got a cut. Which is stupid. We should pay more. Of course, my 5k decrease pales in comparison to the really rich. But people are selfish.

But it helps those that always vote and influence their communities. Church leaders, civic leaders. Those that have pull in their communities.

And have convinced couples making 60K with 2 kids, who really pay no taxes that tax cuts help them.

It’s frustrating. Try explaining to a person who pays no taxes after adjustments that they did not get a tax cut if they believe they did. I have tried. They believe Fox before what their own math should tell them.

[marlakay]

33. My younger daughter is like that

Went on and on today about how great the stock market is, her husband has been playing with it past 20 yrs, then saying that tax cut helped small businesses because of depreciation, and that it helped her. I think they make around 90k per year with 2 kids and house.

Thankfully they hate Trump because of how immoral and stupid he is so are voting for Biden. They are independent. Her husband is in military and they went from democrats to conservative but last few years since Trump swinging our way a bit.

[Liberal In Texas]

26. I for one, don't believe that the stock market is the economy. n/t

[shanny]

27. For whom? Rich people?

The rest of us? No. We're just out here foaming the runways.

[KentuckyWoman]

32. My buying power has gone down.

I'm old, I expect that now that my income is static. However, a regular poll of the working age, family raising of my extended family shows they also have seen less buying power over the last 3 years.

We have a few Maga's in the crowd, who generally attribute it to the cost of Obamacare. The rest attribute it to general greed on the part of the investor class. I am speaking in generalities and have no expectation the experience in my extended family is universal.