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Last edited Wed Jul 24, 2019, 04:34 PM - Edit history (1)
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
Mindreading must be a great burden, yes?
Some might brush it off as misogyny to think anyone would take describing Speaker Pelosi as "fearful" and referring to the Speaker dismissively as Nancy, but clearly you know exactly what she's thinking way better than anyone in Congress who foolishly and blindly selected her as their leader year after year after year. And there's no personal distaste evident WHATSOEVER that might indicate confirmation bias toward any morsel of speculation or conspiracy theory that PROVES she's "weak" or "fearful" or "conniving."
Keeping in mind of course, that impeachment is a political process, and not a criminal justice or judicial process.
Do tell, who is in "a lobby for caution and do nothing?"
A body carrying out dozens of investigations and preparing a media blitz to get the public up to speed prior to Muellers testimony on what is actually in the Mueller report and how our elections are in danger?
People who are planning in an informed way for the long term consequences of political processes , instead of simply seeing it as possible red meat for a portion of the base that's wants it NOW, because we are SO TIRED of waiting SIX MONTHS for for him to BE OUT OF OFFICE because you are supposed to MAKE US HAPPY WE ARE DEMOCRATS DO IT RIGHT NOW I DON'T CARE WHY NOT NOW I AM STRESSED AND YOU OWE US SOMETHING REALLY HUGE AND PUBLIC BECAUSE HE'S BEEN THERE FOR YEARS NOW AND POC MIGHT BE USED TO THIS KIND OF ONGOING LACK OF INSTANT CHANGE AND PROGRESS WHEN THEY DEMAND IT, BUT I AM NOT!!!!! SO THIS IS REALLY SERIOUS, I MEAN IT. while disregarding the need to take the Senate in 2020? Which will of course be blamed on Pelosi somehow if Trumps base is motivated to oust any Dem Senator that voted yes, and Democratic base will want them lynched if they vote no, even though it will make no difference...
That kind of "do nothing?"
Well, until one has a testimony date, it's pretty pointless to do a media blitz in preparation.
Where will the goalposts be moved next?
Makes it easier to argue with, I guess.
Last edited Tue Jul 23, 2019, 01:05 PM - Edit history (2)
teaching children what impunity is and isn't.
When did this change occur?
You talk about Democrats as "they," and that you hear from "Dems you know." Interesting phraseology for someone joining a Democratic board, isn't it?
That said, I think it is immediately necessary to impeach or otherwise remove d.t. from office.
That's a bit like someone starting out a bigoted rant with "Now I'm no racist, but..."
Because then you go on to contradict that by pointing out that Democratic reps have "done NOTHING" for years.
Sure, there are lots of reasons... but when our Dems can see the plight of those PEOPLE at the border and do nothing, that makes my faith in the party shudder. They have known about this for years now, and done nothing--the traumatization for those families and especially the children grows with every hour that this continues.
When Dems see that the Russians influenced our elections (the hearts blood of our democracy) and nothing was done to stop it from happening again, they should expect it to happen again, especially if this administration is still in charge.
Dems know about global warming, they know about diplomacy, about the importance of continuity in our global actions and attitudes, and they supposedly are fans of human and civil rights. It's hard to tell lately. These, not to mention all the rest of it, are things that are worsened every single day d.t. is in office, and much of it can never be undone.
We all see the crimes and arrogance (I skipped some), and these criminals don't even stop when they're caught. That's impunity; they know they'll get by with all of it. Don't worry, our children will also see that it's ok because nothing is being done.
If there's one complaint I consistently hear from the Dems I know, it's that the Dems back off too easily. Sometimes that's ok, but not when people are abused by the thousands every day at the border, and not when our very democracy and global well-being are at stake.
Maybe m. mcconnell can look at those people at the border and laugh it off, but Nancy and others need to start investigations now and impeach yesterday.
I think you're going to be more at home on another board... one where they just ignore news stories that don't confirm their bias against Democratic leaders, and anything that they learned in civics class about what the majority and minorities can and can't do.
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/454248-pelosi-dems-launch-mueller-messaging-blitz
https://www.themonitor.com/2019/07/20/schumer-senate-democrats-visit-border-facilities/
"88" is also a rather interesting number to include in a username, in case you didn't know.
You're welcome!
I'd like to apologize in advance about the lengths of my statements. I have no self-control. Feel free to skim.
Sure, I mentioned the Dems that I know (meaning I don't ascribe my sentiments to all Dems, just those with whom I've discussed the issues). Are you telling me that I have to toe the party line with no dissent? I thought we could voice our differences. Hmmm... I'll have to look that up later. 
Make no mistake--kids learn what is modeled for them. Our children should be able to see good role modeling in our gov., including standing up for one's values. Granted, there aren't that many great examples, and none in the other party, but our representatives, imho, should at least abide by the rules. When they don't, our kids (and future candidates) should be shown that there are consequences.
When I used the pronoun 'they' I was referring to our elected Dems who do have much more power than the average citizen.
I did not say that the Dems have done nothing about anything for years. I meant that the problems at the border have been known for (and I could be wrong) about 2 years. Known to the public, that is.
Don't be too offended, but there are one or two Dems out here who see the congressional Dems as usually correct (duh) but often unwilling to take the necessary actions to fix or at least challenge what's wrong. e.g. allowing wars to be waged/continued without Congressional approval; waterboarding went unpunished--that = 2 violations of the Geneva Conventions; more recently, nothing was done when officials in this admin. lied to Congress; House Dems passed unqualified and ridiculously inappropriate people through committee, on to the Senate for approval to hold hugely important jobs; and what about security clearances? I see no evidence of substantial efforts to address the miasma of criminals in the trump admin. Those are the kind of things that give the other party those Cheshire-Cat grins, and encourages them to do what they please. Eureka! We have struck IMPUNITY! (I was tempted to also state that without consequences, the other party will go (sry) "To IMPUNITY AND BEYOND!". I decided it might be too much.
I have a minor in Journalism and I pride myself on getting my news from a variety of sources. Granted, no Faux 'news' network--I do prefer MSNBC and CNN, but I'm careful to examine the source of 'facts' presented before I accept them.
You're right that many Dems are trying, and I may be rabid on the subject, but the border abuse is a huge and time-sensitive outrage, and after so long, there's no excuse for that situation to be allowed to continue. Even if there were no laws to address these conditions, by now, emergency legislation could have been passed, courts petitioned, etc... And BTW, if the other party wants to allow the abuses to continue, they should earn it by being forced to explain themselves loudly and repeatedly over the voices of our Dems. Make them know that the important battles will be waged out loud, in public, in front of God and everyone for the rest of eternity if necessary. (If you chant that last sentiment, and add a reference to land, sea and air, it sounds way cooler).
Instead, when our Dems don't do anything but complain, they allow the bad guys to remain quiet, manufacture lies (remember 2018 when republican candidates all claimed undying support for affordable healthcare for all?). 
?? In fact, I thought I once heard Iowa's own snarling darling, chuckles d'grassley refer to ' 'Death Panels' for Grandma' as part of 'Obamacare'. 
and make insincere statements of concern for public consumption, while they continue their support this inhumane treatment, all those other crimes and the 'man' in charge.
I was a teacher, which made me a mandatory reporter of child abuse. I know that (at least here, in the enchanted land of corn and swine), once a report is made and accepted, CPS is REQUIRED to investigate within 1-96 hours, depending upon its urgency, and then to act accordingly for the child's safety and well-being. Oh yeah, I forgot--the inmates at the border aren't allowed to complain, and no one's allowed in to see the real conditions without an appointment. Color me embarrassed.
Those 'detention facilities' are violating all sorts of other rules too--fire codes, health and nutrition guidelines, etc. C'mon! Even daycares can only have a few children at a time per authorized adult and they have to adhere to strict space and other requirements. If these were POWs, the Geneva Conventions would mandate better treatment. You know, we don't even allow farm animals to be treated as badly as those poor immigrants, and no one will ever convince me that those traumatized children at the border should wait while we hem and haw about whether or not to start impeachment proceedings. Even if not on that issue, hey--we have approximately 4,934 other crimes to choose from, but please don't quote me on that number.
Our constitution and Bill of Rights claim that all men (meaning mankind) are created equal and have various rights endowed by their creator. It doesn't say white people or rich people, or even republicans; it doesn't draw the line at people who have no problems, nor does it specify a nationality or exclude people who come from shxt-hole countries. Those documents are the heart and soul of this country, and should be respected.
As an old lady, I reserve the right to make an ocassional faux pas due to generational influences. Plus, I'm new here. Is that an acceptable excuse?
I chose cynara88 because I wanted to remember my username. (I've gone by cynara44 since the ice age of the internet and thought I'd mix it up a bit.) ~~SIGH~~
Well, I followed your link and now I'll have to change it. I'll have you know that old ladies sometimes need those memory tricks just to get by. ~~sniff~~ Plus, by creating mental space to store yet one more username, I'll probably forget the name of a couple of grandchildren or something. I hope you're happy. 
Between you and me, a few of 'em ran down the batts on my mobility scooter the other day--sorta ticked me off.
In other words, thx for the info.
And no, I didn't assign Nancy any new duties. I should have made my thoughts clearer. I meant that our children see their actions and might emulate the example.
FYI, I am not a troll. (flashback to Nixon) I can see why you'd interpret me that way though. I'll try to try harder.
I'm just groovin' on the rant scene, baby. 
(Apologies in advance--I know I ramble, but I have no self-control 
).
Our children's values are shaped in many different ways, but a big part of who they become is rooted in what they've seen modeled. We should be able to hold up any of our leaders as a good role-model. I was not a government teacher, but the two at our school were particularly gifted, so my students already knew something of their rights and responsibilities. They were also well-aware of my views about the importance of citizen participation. Thanks for the advice though.
I am simply finding it difficult to find a Dem (and that's the only party worth the search) who I believe will be able to beat trump or whatever dark-side candidate they present. Many of the voters who support d.t. feel powerless or talked down to. They thrive on our indecision and inertia, which they see--rightly or not--as weakness. It makes them feel powerful and draws them to the dark side. Many don't know how to analyze the facts and sources of their news (thank the other party for that). For those voters, it's easier and far more interesting to believe the "faux news fantasies", so they do.
Our founding fathers knew a lot about the evil lurking in the hearts of man, so they specified that Congress has the duty to investigate legitimately impeachable offenses. I may be going out on a limb here, but I don't recall any Congress having more offenses to investigate or more evidence available. If bad things are being done in our name, and they are, we have a responsibility to at least TRY to stop them. Congress is our only legitimate means to accomplish that. No need to wait for Mueller's testimony--his investigation didn't cover more than a small fraction of d.t.'s impeachable offenses, and each minute he's in power makes a huge difference.
You know, we don't even allow farm animals to be treated as badly as those poor immigrants, and no one will convince me that those traumatized children at the border can wait. Before you say it, I know the Senate is controlled by the other party, but they should all be forced to go on the record on the impeachment issue. Who knows? Once the public is made aware of the facts, some of that other party in the Senate may be smart enough that they no longer consider it helpful to support d.t. They've had lots of success living under the radar--they don't like their voters to see their true positions (remember how the republican candidates claimed to support health care for all
in 2018?).
We need to at least try, because so many of the things being done by the trump admin. et. al. are time sensitive--I brought up the border to point out the time-sensitive nature of that problem--there are plenty of others--the possibility of losing a supreme court justice, world peace, growing violence and hatred, the environment, Russian election-tampering, and even our loved ones in the military being put at risk unnecessarily. Not all would be fixed by trump's removal, but much will get worse without it.
I truly do believe that by not voting, we work against the Dems. I will vote, of course, and of course for a Dem. I can't imagine it any other way. However, I am heartsick to realize that it won't matter much unless we fix certain of those time-sensitive problems (Russian interference, Citizens United, gerrymandering, and the multitude of methods the other party uses to inhibit Dem voters). I think d.t. has to go before the next elections if we are to have even a small possibility of a fair election, because he and his 'other party' co-conspirators are preventing the repairs and inventing more problems.
Congress holds the future of our democracy in its hands. It's time to get rid of the perpetrator-in-chief.
And meeting your personal day to day expectations are the absolute metric for whether they are doing their job, or simply sitting around laughing at how they are obstructing progress. You know this because you are an "old lady" and used to teach.
Got it.
Do go on.
Same here. Stream of consciousness triggered. I agree with so much of what you say about weaknesses in the electorate. How can anyone here not?
Regarding a candidate who can beat Trump, don't let the media, MSM and pure propaganda, get their insidious messages in your head. Remember, they're mostly owned by giant corporations whose owners want to keep conservatives in power. We KNOW from 2015-16 that the NYT and AP for just two pursue the same political goals as Murdoch's Fox and the WSJ, just different style and methods.
In 2020 a majority of the American electorate will once again vote for the Democratic candidate for president because he or she is our candidate. That reality is what's caused powers on the right to decide to destroy representative government. Imo, which one of our competent, principled liberals it is matters far less than that it is a Democrat standing for the typically liberal and progressive ideals we all grew up with. Our problem is not inadequate candidates but the insidious attempts to demoralize people into not voting (a weakness significantly more pervasive on the left than the righteous right) and stealing the election from those who do.
I am absolutely sure that the supposed leader indecision and inertia is a misperception on our side -- again due to our lack of understanding of what they're doing and due to massive propaganda from our enemies playing on our ignorance and fear. Repeat a lie often enough and people believe it.
We see the Republicans get big results by stealing elections, smashing laws, breaking deals, corrupting, and taking what they want. These are all fascistic tactics. You bet they draw some people to the dark side, but they repel us -- almost all of that majority who elected Obama twice and the Blue Wave.
Our job of protecting our liberal democracy's laws and systems requires protection by upholding and following them -- and the will of the people -- to fight the rise of fascism. Some unfortunately imagine nothing is happening because it's so damned slow, and reactive, and incredibly complex and behind-scenes, but that doesn't mean it isn't. Our own big day to act, probably the most critical election since the Civil War, November 3, 2020, ratchets one day closer every day.
As for not doing everything we might do right now to stop current atrocities, we are "at least trying" and doing some little bit within our limited power. The real questions are whether we should "at least try" by proceeding with an impeachment that would inevitably and conspicuously fail and what would be the inevitable costs of failure? That would give corrupt MSM and other hostile media a mountain of material to spin through all the remaining months until the election. Including of course that it was the Democrats who attempted to overset democracy and failed. Victory for the people!
Then, what happens tomorrow? The future is also "time-sensitive" because it depends on what we do in this time. So, what happens if the result in 2020 is reelection of Trump and control of congress once again by the intensely corrupted and increasingly fascistic Republicans? I believe this could be our last true election, assuming 2016 doesn't turn out to have been that, or perhaps 2012 will have been that last if we can't turn this around. And I'm sure that is what is keeping our leaders from making a definitive display of ineffectual principle now while the Republicans control the senate, WH and even SCOTUS -- the dreadful danger that impeachment's conspicuous and inevitable failure could lead to devastating losses in 2020.
Our overriding, existential goal MUST be to obtain majority control so we can restore normality and the rule of law. And turn the bills already passed by our Democratic caucuses into laws that undo the corruption they've institutionalized and strengthen and protect our electoral system in many ways, including election funding. I would be terrified if I thought Pelosi and company weren't committed to saving our democracy, so it can save us.
It's clear you realize also that, if we don't stop what the right has become, for just one thing in that tomorrow new camps will hold hundreds of thousands. They've already drawn up plans for those. And after the detention camps were someday, finally mostly emptied of undocumented immigrants, just some thousands sloppily left to continue their suffering, what next? Who next?
Wealthy RW economic, bigoted and nationalist social conservative, and religious right extremists have allied to get power. These are the mean people who destroy nations. Those they've gotten into office already frequently callously victimize American citizens, and they have long enemies lists, including all liberals. Those cheers for Trump's calls to arrest journalists and Hillary prove it can happen here.
We're going to know someday how this turns out, good or dreadful, because we'll have to live with it. Whatever you think of about our party leaders and their decisions ITM, though, at least remind yourself that NO one in their positions, with their experience, information, and teams of some of the best experts and advisers in the nation, could possibly be as incredibly, cluelessly stupid as the current blizzard of criticism about ours would suggest. Even massively dysfunctional Trump is not as incompetent and stupid as Nancy Pelosi (the woman!) is being portrayed in this blizzard of disinformation and agitprop.
See? Ramble, ramble, chat, chat. Same goals and principles, same worries.
"Our problem is not inadequate candidates but the insidious attempts to demoralize people into not voting (a weakness significantly more pervasive on the left than the righteous right) and stealing the election from those who do". So correct.
I would add however, that I think our best weapon is to keep the outcry loud and constant. This border issue is not only important for the victims, but for pulling some of the less fervent away from the dark side. We need to (on a limitted basis) fight fire with fire. Since reason is not their strong suit--we need to appeal to their emotions, then get through to them the hows and whys and expected results--offering examples to back up our opinions would be far more effective. If we grab them with one issue, they may be more open to the next.
While not all agree on immigration, most Americans by far, are horrified at the conditions and the tactics at the border. It inspires almost universal disgust. The news pictures of those cages filled with abused kids speak thousands of words. Aha! One common trait among most humans is compassion. Dems are the party of hope and principle--if we kept up a loud and constant opposition, it would keep those children front and center in the hearts and minds of our citizens and could be used as an example of op abuses. Compassion has marvelous potential for influencing public opinions and outrage is a fine way to get out the vote. Some may say that the issue shouldn't be politicized, but it stands on its own; it's a true and horrific product of the op, and we should demand that they own it while their fans are watching.
We can't win trump/op voters by reason--most haven't the skill to analyze information. Really----that's why the op tries to stifle education. As an example, No Child Left Behind sounded good on the surface to many people, but good teachers will tell you that the memorization of facts is not a high-level skill--it does little to help students internalize ideas and put their knowledge to practical use. They need other types of learning to truly comprehend and understand the concepts. That, btw, enables better retention and the ability to sort and analyze data. NCLB forced teachers to teach to the test (ie. teaching not for understanding, but focussing only on the facts that might be asked on the test), because if students didn't perform well on the tests, the school would lose funding. This type of educating the masses is the dream of the op. because it keeps much of the public ignorant and so, gullible.
That being said,
I agree with most of what you say, and only differ in terms of opinions on how to proceed.
I admit that I'm slightly jaded--perhaps I expect too much from the good guys. Ever since the first 2 years of Obama's presidency, when Dems had control of both houses, I've become more and more disillusioned. When it all boiled down, yes they accomplished good things, but not enough, by a long-shot. Imho, that's why we lost that control in 2010. One of the first things the Dems did in '08 ('09) was to offer a new era of bipartisanship to the evil empire.
I get it. Theoretically, cooperation is a good thing and something of which we should be proud, but in the real, modern world, that was like offering the wolves employment as shepherds. The outcome of that endeavor was predictable to many of us. Dems allowed the o.p. (other party) disrupt, stall and derail at every turn, and even when we succeeded in passing our legislationl, the op somehow cut and pasted enough to lessen the intended impact.
When Dems controlled the agenda, they didn't deny the op everything it requested, and not all their issues were kept off the agenda and denied a vote. We fight fair and for the good of the people (good thing), the op cheats and lies for the sake of their bank accounts (bad thing). The moment the op regained a little power, they immediately began to systematically undermine the structure and integrity of this country's governance and to ensure their continued control.
When I student taught, one of my teachers gave me good advice. He pointed out a big, mean kid (literally twice my size) who liked to intimidate people. My mentor warned me that the kid would test me at his first opportunity. He said the bully would try to invade my space and make me back off, and he was right. There was no disagreement or anything--the kid just wanted to establish his dominance. I followed the teacher's advice to stand my ground (an echo of my father's advice throughout my childhood) and when the kid stepped into my space, I took a step toward him, made and continued eye contact, with no other discernible response and continued speaking. My mentor actually had to leave the room to laugh when the kid (almost without even thinking), took a step back. He did try it again a couple of times, but finally quit trying, probably because his failures were in clear view of his classmates. By the end of my stay, we got along just fine.
We have to do the same. We need to force their hands. When chuckles (the clown) de'grassley and pals spouted off about death panels for gramma, it would have made my heart soar to hear Harry Reed or Tom Harkin on Meet the Press challenging them all, publically, to point out the specific place in the ACA where they got that info, because if it's true, it needs to be removed (they could even ham it up a little and claim that it's the solemn responsibility of the op to do so for the sake of grammas everywhere).
That's the kind of action that gives Dems hope and pulls them to the polls, and it also could grab a few of the undecided crowd if they trust Dems to fight for them. We all know how the trumpians enjoy a spectacle, who knows? We might win a few of them too. The point is that even if we lose a fight, by standing up and demanding facts, we may enlighten the public and give them a better chance of understanding the intent of both sides. Further, repeated efforts on the behalf of the voter will show that Dems can be trusted.
Of course there are other angles and arguments, but back to my problem with the inaction of the Dems on beginning impeachment investigations. There is a huge and growing number of issues that are time-sensitive--the suffering individuals at the border, of course, but what about world peace or the climate crisis or the constant lies which erode our expectations of truth in government? Some of these things are worsening by the minute and the Dems imvho, need to start things rolling because it's gonna take time. It is urgent, if for no other reason, because as you said, nothing has been done to ensure the possibility of a fair election, which, I agree we have not had since Obama 2012. Add to that the gerrymandering and efforts of the dark side to keep Dems from voting. It's crucial now.
Now, as to whether or not ousting trumples would necessarily improve things, I say it's almost got to be better than what we've got now. I don't like mr. pence, and I think his beliefs are dangerous if he thrusts them upon us, but he's at least more stable, and I don't think he has the charisma to win a national election. He may even see the need to prevent election interference from our enemies.
I didn't respond to all your points (my wrist hurts 
), but as I said, I do agree with most of what you said; I think we differ mostly on methods rather than goals.
This was too long again--it's probably one of the reasons my family won't discuss politics with me.
Have a good one. 
If you're into horror, read Inside the Third Reich by Albert Speer It sure sharpens one's sense of urgency in view of current events.
are often warning each other not to mention anything political in front of trumpster elders, but wish they would.
Yes, it's how to proceed. One thing we have to remember is that Democrats, because we're overall somewhat more independent, open-minded and honest, have no cable propaganda networks and provide almost no biased radio audience. We have no Fox to turn us into passionately loyal supporters for whatever our leaders do and attack dogs against the other party and never will.
And when you say if only Democrats had spoken up, you're actually illustrating the giant problem that they always speak up on every issue but the effect is very different from that of Hannity or Fox & Friends on their viewers.
Sure, we all wish the Obama admin had somehow used those early days to better effect, but that we could have done a great deal and failed (because we always fail!) is Republican and far left propaganda that we've allowed them to get into our heads. The behavior of the Republican leadership certainly did not delude Obama or our people in congress into believing they would listen to the voice of the people and start cooperating, as so many imagine.
Remember, the initial Democratic senate majority in congress wasn't nearly as strong as people imagine now thanks to those Republican lies that we had a supermajority -- for 2 years as Fox and the far left still claim. Not hardly: it was a passing 2 months, and that came about in a very fluid situation. Remember, the Repubs held up Franken's seat for half a year, Ted Kennedy was dying of a brain tumor and often not available for votes and never reliably, and not long after Franken was finally seated another senator became ill and no longer able to participate. The transient 60 occurred in that context, when out of nowhere a Republican senator switched parties, I think before Franken's arrival but before the ill senator's departure? In any case, we were 58 and 59 the rest of that session.
And from the beginning those paying attention knew the wolves had determined on scorched earth all the way, to deny the Obama admin any victory at all, and part of which was to keep jobs and wages depressed as much as they could to blame that on the Democrats. When that didn't restore them to power in 2012 they unbelievably cruelly and destructively continued scorched earth the next 4 years also.
And now here we are. Lack of a more compelling wake-up call from the Mueller hearing is reportedly causing some of those quivering at the starting line to stand down, while others want to race forward. Again, I'm with those concerned that an impeachment, doomed to fail (Democrats always fail!), launched before we can offer the evidence, proof, and positive court rulings we're currently gathering, would cause a backlash against vulnerable federal and state Democrats in 2020 that could lead to the loss of everything. And remember, a failed impeachment would leave Trump in office ready to be reelected by passionate followers just as Nixon was.
For me everything has to be about removing what today's Republicans have become from power, Trump as soon as possible, but all of them in 2020. The fate of those dreadfully miserable and traumatized children depends on that. Court rulings have been helping a lot of them, but far from all. Many of them will never see their families again if we don't win, and they will be joined by potentially hundreds of thousands of others.
Btw, meant to say it before, but welcome to DU, Cynara88.
Last edited Tue Jul 23, 2019, 11:19 AM - Edit history (1)
I guess when you want to respond, and don't really have anything to dispute what I said, that's the go to.
But I'll play that game - when did I kill or even criticize the messenger? I have said that I trust Pelosi's judgement on this more than I trust my own. Is that "suicide?" Please.
I trust Pelosi more than someone that doesn't have her experience and access to information that those outside of congress may not have. That would include the author of this piece, yes? I know that his argument confirms your own bias, but that doesn't change my opinion that takes into account experience and access to information. I trust who I trust. You trust who you trust, but apparently you consider someone suggesting that you, and by extension whoever agrees with you, aren't the final arbiter on a topic an insult.
Because I own my opinions, and don't represent them as, or give them the weight of fact, you really don't have anything to rebut. You seem to think that I did - and that somehow trusting Pelosi more than "the messenger" is "killing the messenger." That's where your strawman comes from - lack of understanding of that differentiation.
And a bit of pique that you can't really rebut my statement with any validity -thus the need for a straw man to attack. I never said that you "needed to trust Nancy," but you needed to attempt a slap-down for disagreeing with your opinion - which you seem to equate with "killing the messenger."
Sorry, not going to defend that straw man for you. You're going to have to get what "you need" on your own.
Hang in there!
