CBS: 15 to 20 million military-style assault rifles

[left-of-center2012]

Last edited Mon Aug 5, 2019, 09:39 AM - Edit history (1)

Just heard on the CBS Sunday Evening news that there are
15 to 20 million military-style assault rifles in the hands of 'ordinary' Americans.

I fear there is no putting the genie back in the bottle.

[YOHABLO]

1. Exactly. What will background checks do to eliminate the guns already in the hands of idiots?

[Laurian]

9. Start with a ban on new ones, buy back program

for those already out there. That will not solve the problem, but it’s a start. Require registration and licensing. Some will be non-compliant, but again, it’s a start. Make ammunition traceable and regulate sales. We cannot just throw up our hands and say nothing can be done.

We have to start somewhere.....now.

[Laurian]

10. And get rid of the ridiculous law that protects gun manufacturers.

[Ponietz]

20. Absolutely!

Products liability for the foreseeable deaths their inherently dangerous weapons cause.

[YOHABLO]

16. Start charging $25 for every bullet.

[Joe941]

45. Scotus will strike it down.

[MagickMuffin]

26. Eliminate the bullets

Can't shoot anyone without bullets!!!

[Gore1FL]

33. Nothing, but that isn't the purpose of background checks. nt

[hlthe2b]

2. RFID chipped bullets-- strictly regulated sales

[Coventina]

5. Or even better, outlaw the sale of the ammunition.

Then, they are just hunks of metal.

[left-of-center2012]

6. "Then, they are just hunks of metal"

I suspect these gun owners have tons of ammo already.

[Coventina]

7. Maybe so, but if they can't buy more, and can't sell it.....

At least we are limiting the damage.

[Drahthaardogs]

37. Most guys reload their own

And have tons of raw materials to do it. My dad has so much reloading equipment he could keep load cartridges for decades. It's sold in bulk and a little goes a long way

[Recursion]

52. Then let them (nt)

[llmart]

24. Many of them buy the materials to make their own.

They stockpile hundreds of thousands of rounds.

I know whereof I speak.

[Coventina]

25. People like that need to be thoroughly investigated and their weapons taken away.

There is something seriously wrong with that kind of mindset.

[llmart]

32. "There is something seriously wrong with that kind of mindset."

I agree with you on that. But, someone who has been diagnosed with OCD w/hoarding tendencies - it's not like you can call up the local authorities and say, "Hey, this guy has been making his own ammo and hoarding it and occasionally selling it out of his vehicle to other gun nutters. Can you investigate him?" As it stands today, no, you can't. There's a whole industry of guys like this, and they don't all look like the stereotypical guy you think of in a scenario like this.

[Drahthaardogs]

40. Why?

We used to hunt deer, elk, and pronghorn growing up on a ranch. You bought stuff in bulk because that is how it was sold. Powder was sold in 2 lb canisters. Bullets by the 100's. It wasn't hoarding. It's like tying flies. You buy a neck and it lasts for ten years.

[llmart]

51. Maybe in your situation you describe it wasn't hoarding.

Bullets sold in the 100's - OK, I know that's how this stuff come. As I've said before, I know whereof I speak. As you say, it lasts forever if you buy it that way and if you are using it to hunt, then yes, you might use only one bullet to take down an elk. So why would anyone stockpile ammo making components if they won't ever need all of that? That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about actual OCD/hoarding disorder. Someone who keeps buying and buying and piling it up, who will never even live long enough to use it all. That's typical of someone with OCD/hoarding disorder.

What I'm getting at and probably didn't explain very well is that there is no regulations/laws on the books to identify who these people are that have been diagnosed with any sort of mental disorder, and the mail order catalogs that sell this stuff have no idea who they're selling to. They don't keep track of who is buying how much and for what reason. THAT should be regulated more closely.

P.S. Not bullets in the 100's. How about bullets in the hundreds of thousands and 500# of gun powder? Is that acceptable to you? What about selling it to just anyone you happen to run across who will pay you for a couple boxes of ammo that you've reloaded? Why is just any Joe Blow allowed to sell stuff like this?

[Traildogbob]

38. Can't get the guns?

Ban Alex Jones, Rusty Limpballs, Fux Noise, AM hate white wing radio. Take away the hate. The warped version of Christianity is a root problem as well.

[Hoyt]

3. Yeah, but we can stop production of another 20 million and transfer of old ones.

[Turbineguy]

4. I wonder if Wayne Lapierre set himself up

to collect residuals.

[dalton99a]

8. Nobody knows exactly how many assault rifles exist in the U.S. - by design

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article201882739.html

Nobody knows exactly how many assault rifles exist in the U.S. – by design
By Kate Irby
February 23, 2018 06:21 PM

...

Dave Chipman, who worked for the ATF for 25 years and is now a senior policy adviser at Giffords, an organization that lobbies for stricter gun laws, said the gun lobby tries to make it appear there are tens of millions of assault rifles already in circulation throughout the U.S. population; that way, it can argue the guns are commonly used, which will make Congress more reluctant to regulate.

“Do we have 5 million or 20 million of these?” Chipman said. “You want to know that difference, and you’re also looking at lawsuits based on impact to the public.”

One of the only public comprehensive estimates of AR-15s in circulation was done by Mark Overstreet, a research coordinator for the NRA, for a court case in 2009. Overstreet estimated 2.1 million assault rifles had been produced and distributed in the U.S. between 1986 and 2009. He also estimated that AR-15s accounted for 14.4 percent of all rifles manufactured in 2007. If that proportion held true in 2016, then more than 610,000 AR-15s were produced and distributed in the U.S. that year alone. But that’s very much an estimate.

Chipman estimated that there are 10 million assault rifles currently in circulation, but said he had “no comfort level” with that number and that he was “spitballing.”

“Even if that’s right, is it 10 people with a million guns, or 10 million people with one gun? We don’t know, and that doesn’t help good government looking out for public safety,” Chipman said. “When you don’t have numbers, you can quickly just say, ‘Oh, this is an impossible task.’ That’s a common narrative with the gun lobby, and it’s resonated with Congress.”

[YOHABLO]

17. Not sure this is accurate but as of 2018 Number of guns United States of America 393,347,000

[jpak]

11. Did millions of bottles of booze prevent Prohibition?

Nope.

Ban them.

Ban the ammo.

Make it a felony to own them and prohibit the stupid gunners found guilty from owning ANY firearm again.

Yup

[rockfordfile]

48. What are you talking about?

[sarisataka]

12. I am told the solution

Is simple

[Voltaire2]

13. So it would cost 20 billion to buy them

all back at 1000 each. Three month grace period for the buy back. After that they are illegal, have zero fair market value, and possession would be a felony.

Doesn’t seem like an insurmountable problem to me.

[dweller]

14. $1k for the first month

$600 for the second month
$300 for the third ...
$0 after that...

let the scramble begin...

✌🏼

[Voltaire2]

19. Yup.

[Trenzalore]

30. The black market value would be 20,000

Which isn't a bad thing. Jim Jeffords adequately covers the problem one encounters trying to buy a gun on the black market in his gun control set.

[RainCaster]

36. And ten years

Minimum prison time

[llmart]

22. I think most people pay more than $1,000 for an AR15, so the payoff would have to be greater.

[ret5hd]

27. $1000 today, or $0 tomorrow.

Their choice.

[Amishman]

56. Judging by Australia and New Zealand's buybacks, most will keep them

Australia was the most successful and paid market value, and still got less than half of them.

New Zealand is 6 months in and had gotten only a couple percent.

Even mandatory registration law in the US (NY and CT) got less than 20% to come forward. Gunners clearly love their guns more than the threat of prison.

To get even half, we'd have to pay many times what they are worth. Exploit their greed and make them want to hand them over. They are too arrogant to do it in fear of consequences, and too selfish to do it for the greater good. Using their greed is just about the only thing that might work.

[ret5hd]

57. Consequences will work... eventually.

[Hoyt]

28. The hell with them. They "invested" in dang things, they can absorb the loss for a bad investment.

Over em $250 and a 5 year jail sentence if they ever try to transfer the banned weapons if they don't take the deal. Ban ammo, most of these gun-humpers are too lazy to load their own.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

31. Because everything else people buy holds its value?

Seriously? What's a used AR15 go for typically?

[Voltaire2]

54. Around 500 as far as I can tell.

I was being super generous with 1000. But that is how this 'debate' goes. One side is just tossing out obstructions to doing anything.

[Voltaire2]

50. Used fmv seems to be lower.

[Skittles]

15. lots of cowards in the "home of the brave"

[aikoaiko]

18. They are very popular among law abiding civilians for competition, recreation, and self-defense

And yes, some criminals use them to horrific effect.

[llmart]

21. They are law-abiding until the day they aren't.

n/t

[Coventina]

23. And, they get stolen to be used in crimes like Sandy Hook.

There is no good reason why these things should be available to non-military personnel.

[Hoyt]

29. Get another hobby, Aikoaiko, one that doesn't help produce mass shootings. Christ.

Throw an ax or something, at least it takes a little physical effort.

I know, shooting is a sport to you guys, but unless you are a biathlete, it's not very strenuous. Oh, and that urban warfare competition you guys like, doesn't count either.

[aikoaiko]

41. No need to get personal. Geesh. I just responded to the OP with some reasons why...

....there are so many "military-style assault rifles" out there.

[USALiberal]

55. You are so predictable. Nt

[Rebl2]

34. I've been saying

that for years. This should have been addressed after the shooting in Columbine. I fear it’s to late now.

[onetexan]

35. The gun industry will keep pumping them out

As long as they will make $ and buy out politicians protecting them. At the expense of American lives of course.

[usaf-vet]

43. Give the gun manufactures an option. Sell guns to the military or civilians BUT NOT BOTH.

Any gun built for the military can't be sold to civilians. Break that law and you can sell to the military for 10 years minimum.

Try SOMETHING anything. To stop gun violence.

You can't drive a car without car insurance. Why not make it mandatory to hold gun owner's insurance.

Try SOMETHING anything. To stop gun violence.

[onetexan]

46. great suggestions. Certain guns definitely should not be in the hands of civilians.

[hack89]

49. Wouldn't change a thing

Few manufacturers sell to the military- military contracts are rare as the military down sizes. Too many smaller companies that sell only to the civilian market.

[sir pball]

59. First option wouldn't really do much.

Last edited Mon Aug 5, 2019, 07:51 PM - Edit history (1)

Unless you're going to define "the same model" by cosmetics. "Military-style assault weapons" as sold to civilians are mechanically very different from the versions sold to the military, per the Federal requirement that they be not easily convertible to fully automatic; the internal parts set of a civilian AR clone is almost completely incompatible with a military M4, it's not "the same model" by any means.

You would, however, eliminate one of the most popular and inoffensive hunting rifles in America - the bolt-action Remington M700 is literally grandpa's deer gun, and in mechanically identical form, the US Army standard issue sniper rifle.

Me, I'd say reclassify all magazine-fed semiautomatics under the National Firearms Act of 1934 and give a grace period to either sell them back or register them, after that owning one is the same as owning an illegal machine gun, very bad news indeed.

[usaf-vet]

60. Great points. I'm a gun owner but not a expert. I bow to those who have real solutions.

Carry-on.

[sir pball]

61. I don't believe in crapping on people. If you're mistaken, I believe in engaging and educating.

You clearly mean well and I'm on your side!

[usaf-vet]

62. Ex-military medic. I've seen the results of weapons of war.

[sir pball]

63. Serious question, and not trolling..

Is a small caliber wound worse than a thirty-cal? I luckily haven't seen a person shot with one, but I've seen deer with both and the .30 seemed the 30s were much bigger holes.

[usaf-vet]

64. I would have to say there are many factors that would impact the answer.

From a medics standpoint where was the entry wound and what does it hit on the way through. And of course what was the exact projectile. Although rarely did we know what the wound was from other than the size of the entry wound.

My service was in the 60's Vietnam era and at the time I don't think the military was issuing anything but a standard rounds for the M16 .223 and sidearms .45.

Now (again not a weapons expert) we have projectiles designed to maximize the damage.

I agree with your observation of deer wounds. But again the actual ballistics range, bullet grains, and powder of choice I'm told but my deer hunting friends can make a huge difference in the wound itself.

[sir pball]

65. Oh my. Not a discussion I'd ever have imagined having.

I would think, as a hunter, a 308 softpoint at 2900 fps would do the most damage, but as you said it's contingent on the "terminal ballistics"; modern M855 steel-core ammo at 2200fps seems to be designed to punch through armor and make a relatively smaller hole.

I feel kinda gross talking about this.

[usaf-vet]

66. You have exhausted my expertise with this subject.

Maybe the day will come when the gun issue is resolved.

Although I thought Roe V Wade was settled law.

But now the SCOTUS is being stacked to reverse that decision.

Oh well. I think I need a day or two fishing to clear my head.

I enjoyed the dialogue.

Later!

[sir pball]

67. I am sorry I probed so much.

My BFF is is a paramedic, he doesn't like to talk about his GSVs.

I shouldn't have probed.

Happy fishing!

[Vdizzle]

39. Ever seen "Mad Max"?

That is the right’s wet dream dystopia vision.

[flamingdem]

42. We can lessen the hate

That's a start..

[tblue37]

44. Check your subject line. You left out "million." nt

[left-of-center2012]

53. Thank you

[rockfordfile]

47. I think it's a mixture. Guns that can hold as many bullets and fire as many rounds as quickly

I think it's a mixture. Guns that can hold as many bullets and fire as many rounds as quickly, then you have the coward Nazi-Republicans looking at them as easy to get their hands on. The Nazi-Republicans have been spouting and murdering Americans for years. Now it's easy to get their hands on a tool that makes it easier. Does it quicker and higher numbers.

Of course they have their cheerleader today to help. Trump and the gop are guilty in these deaths. The same goes for every other Nazi-Republicans in the past that spouted off which lead to deaths.

[elocs]

58. "I fear there is no putting the genie back in the bottle."

Yeah, that's an awful lot of rifles to try and get back if it comes to it. Even then, there would be a black market for them just like anything that is illegal.