Can we please please stop doing this?

[SHRED]

Last edited Wed Aug 7, 2019, 02:22 AM - Edit history (1)

Just stop it.

“Routinely blaming mass shootings on mental illness is unfounded and stigmatizing. Research has shown that only a very small percentage of violent acts are committed by people who are diagnosed with, or in treatment for, mental illness."

https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2019/08/statement-shootings?fbclid=IwAR2d6H7FHPli3nFYjwjMNBdn---0AfWQxvG_1dNdysGDeWJ4y3qtcsSrJQI

[SHRED]

2. Are you kidding?

First paragraph

WASHINGTON — Following is the statement of APA President Rosie Phillips Davis, PhD, on the shootings in El Paso, Texas, and in Dayton, Ohio:

[spanone]

3. K&R...

[uponit7771]

4. K&R, Its the new republican thoughts and prays that some dems don't fight back against.

[SHRED]

5. Correct

It saddens me.

[msongs]

6. its a convenient excuse for the republicans nt

[FBaggins]

7. No

His claims are disingenuous at best.

Nobody is claiming that all “violent acts” are related to mental illness... and it’s ridiculous of him to imply that mental illness only exists if one of his colleagues diagnoses and/or treats an approved condition.

We aren’t talking about road rage or some gang member robbing a liquor shop and getting desperate when he’s caught... We’re talking about some teenager taking an AK-type weapon to a state fair and starting to pick people off at random. If an APA member can’t find something in the DSM for that... he should lose his license.

[SHRED]

20. Every Fucking time

Every time there is a mass murder mental illness is discussed as a culprit.

[FBaggins]

33. I don't know about "culprit"

But it's certainly a contributing factor.

Frankly - I don't understand the concern. Nobody is saying that mental illness automatically means a violent person or that everyone with any mental illness needs to be distrusted by society.

It's much simpler than that. Removal of firearms entirely is never going to happen. Clever attempts at twisting the Second Amendment simply will not get there. What can be done is to impose rational restrictions on who can own firearms. If someone actually proposes "no gun ownership to anyone diagnosed with a mental illness" I would be right there with you opposing it... but it isn't unreasonable (and might actually garner bipartisan support) to give law enforcement tools to restrict gun ownership from some extreme forms of illness that do correlate with these mass attacks.

[former9thward]

8. So people who commit mass killings are sane?

What a dumb statement. Most people who commit these acts have never been to any professional for treatment so OF COURSE they have not been "diagnosed with, or in treatment for mental illness".

The things people post....

[JoeOtterbein]

12. Actually many mass killers are considered "sane", and many innocent people are routinely...

...condemned to jail, and worse, for being mentally ill.

One has nothing to do with the other.

[former9thward]

34. Considered sane by you maybe....

[Act_of_Reparation]

39. You clearly know a lot about psychology.

I went to Upstairs Hollywood Medical School, too.

[former9thward]

48. Yes, it shows...

[Act_of_Reparation]

49. Swish.

[uppityperson]

13. You are insulting the pres of the American Psychological Association. Read the article

As our nation tries to process the unthinkable yet again, it is clearer than ever that we are facing a public health crisis of gun violence fueled by racism, bigotry and hatred. The combination of easy access to assault weapons and hateful rhetoric is toxic. Psychological science has demonstrated that social contagion — the spread of thoughts, emotions and behaviors from person to person and among larger groups — is real, and may well be a factor, at least in the El Paso shooting.

“That shooting is being investigated as a hate crime, as it should be. Psychological science has demonstrated the damage that racism can inflict on its targets. Racism has been shown to have negative cognitive and behavioral effects on both children and adults and to increase anxiety, depression, self-defeating thoughts and avoidance behaviors.

“Routinely blaming mass shootings on mental illness is unfounded and stigmatizing. Research has shown that only a very small percentage of violent acts are committed by people who are diagnosed with, or in treatment for, mental illness. The rates of mental illness are roughly the same around the world, yet other countries are not experiencing these traumatic events as often as we face them. One critical factor is access to, and the lethality of, the weapons that are being used in these crimes. Adding racism, intolerance and bigotry to the mix is a recipe for disaster. ...

[SHRED]

17. Thank you

[former9thward]

35. The quote I replied to is ridiculous.

How many mass killers have been to a mental health professional? And I don't really care about the APA. They are an organization which considered homosexuality to be an mental illness until 1973.

[LanternWaste]

37. Post hoc ergo prompter hoc.

followed by a refection of established of science.

How very rational of you.

[uppityperson]

47. You are welcome for copying more of the article for you to read.

[SHRED]

18. Your ignorance is disturbing

[Bernardo de La Paz]

21. Don't use opaque URLs if you want people to read articles you excerpt

Copy and paste the real URL.

I don't follow opaque URLs to mystery sites. Why hide the real URL?

[SHRED]

23. Excuse me

C&P off my Twitter.
My bad.

Fixed

[ck4829]

19. I don't know if any person who commits any act of homicide is sane

[SHRED]

24. The term "mental illness" is used

Not "insane".

"Mental illness" is a broad brush considering the many variables within this label.

It's unfair to those suffering..

[John Fante]

30. They're actually very fucking sane.

That's why juries reject the insanity defense every time.

Mental illness =/= insanity.

[former9thward]

36. Wrong.

I practice. Society's use of "insanity" is completely different than the legal definition of insanity. The legal definition is extremely narrow which is why it is rarely used in court.

[John Fante]

46. Society?!! Those are some strong expert opinion you got there.

[zaj]

9. It's always metal illness...

... when you have and don't control your impulse to murder (or, not in self defense) someone. It's actually fairly useless to label it after the fact, since the action defines itself.

And hardly a knock on anyone and everyone with any form of mental illness.

[SHRED]

29. So then why aren't all murderers...

...let off or have their penalty reduced on a mental illness alibi?

Your premise falls flat as it meets reality.
Sorry.

[former9thward]

38. The "reality" is that the legal definition of insanity is extremely narrow and specific.

The poster is using terms which society would use generally. Mass killers are insane by any definition of society but not necessarily by the legal system. Of course I am ignorant of the subject as you said so what do I know...

[Tarc]

40. You do not have the slightest idea what you're talking about

These inbred, alt-right Trumpkin incels are responsible for their own actions.

[zaj]

42. Yes, they are. Mental illness isn't an excuse.

I'm not saying it's a legal exemption, or an excuse or a tool for deflection. But it is what it is. If you take a gun a mow down 30 random people because of some anger you feel...

...an always true contributing factor is that your brain chemistry is part of the problem.

It's not the sole part. It's not reflective of all the people who have anger issues, depression, or have violent thoughts but never act. Or choose to fight in bars instead of kill people.

But those who cross the line and commit the act, are by definition, experiencing some form of brain chemistry issue that limited self regulation.

[Tarc]

43. It's not a part at all. Sack up and take responsibility

Somewhere along the line we stopped holding people responsible for their actions and started looking for reasons ("I suddenly remember something that happened at age 5 that made me this way, Your Honor!&quot to let them off.

It's nauseating.

[zaj]

44. It has nothing at all with excuses...

... it has to do with understanding how behavior happens.

Nothing says we have to reduce penalities, or let people off the hook, or change accountability or reduce deterance efforts.

But science understands much more about human decision making today than before. Ignorance of the nature or ignoring it, makes everything worse.

[JoeOtterbein]

10. Because others use someone's mental illness as a reason to kill them.

It would hurt too much for me to start listing the victims.

[uppityperson]

11. K&R

[DemocracyMouse]

14. Leaving mental illness out of the discussion is a start

But the key argument is this:

Referencing the 2nd Amendment, all of these mass shootings are neither "well-regulated" nor done by "militias." Nor are the types of weapons used even remotely close to the single bullet shot guns denoted by the Constitution.

ONLY a program of serious gun regulation, beginning with the banning of assault rifles and moving on to background checks, will begin to honor the 2nd Amendment.

The Republicans ALWAYS quote "the right to bear arms" and leave out the conditions. DUMB and LAZY journalists, politicians and citizens never bother to read the Constitution.

We're all complicit if we don't read what the 2nd Amendment actually says. (And don't let any smart asses tell you the wording is ambiguous. Supreme Court judges have robustly approved of regulation in the past. The NRA used to approve of regulation).

Entertainment media and sugary, fatty "foods" have begun to consume America's brains.

[smirkymonkey]

15. I honestly do not think that extreme hatred and prejudice is a "mental illness".

It is the manifestation of a sick mind, but not technically a mental illness in the clinical sense. There are too many people in this country who are just mad with hatred, but I do not believe they are mentally ill. I just think they are weak human beings who have found a drug in anger and hatred to distract themselves from their own misery.

Calling them mentally ill is an insult to the truly mentally ill and it gives them a pass at something that they could control if they had the slightest bit of motivation or inner strength. They choose to be hateful. They choose to be weak and violent. True mental illness is not a choice.

[mr_lebowski]

25. THIS & the notion that every one who kills must be mentally ill is poppycock ...

And as you say, a complete insult to people who are legitimately mentally ill through no fault of their own.

If we adopted the attitude that 'killing someone' is prima facie evidence that someone is insane, we'd have to commit all murderers to mental hospitals, or just call 'em not guilty by reason of insanity ...

Not even close to all murderers meet the clinical definition of 'mentally ill', let alone 'insane'.

Who here thinks that the average gang member who shoots someone from a rival gang for invading their drug-selling territory and cutting into their profits ... must be 'insane' and therefore should be able to plead not guilty by reason of insanity ... as proven by the fact they killed someone? Raise your hand ...

[SHRED]

27. Truth!

[PandoraAwakened]

32. Exactly n/t

[SHRED]

26. Beautifully stated

[Stonepounder]

16. When I was a young child (from about 5 yo to about 10 yeo)

my father was a clinical psychologist at the Columbus (OH) State Hospital. He developed a program whereby patients (who were not on locked wards) would periodically have 'outings' where they would leave the hospitals and go to some kind of social event. It might be a group picnic, it might be a hike in a state park, it might be a mingle party at our house. There was only one rule we kids had and that was you never, ever asked someone whether they were patient or staff. Because most of the time you couldn't guess, and if you met a patient somewhere else you would never guess they were mentally ill. Never once did anyone ever get violent.

Mental Illness rarely expresses itself as violence.

(PS. My dad was a psychologist, me I was a computer geek, so this is just personal anecdote not a professional opinion.)

[SHRED]

28. Thank you for sharing this

It means a lot to me.

[TalenaGor]

22. so can we take a different approach...

we have a lot of things that need fixing that need funding that need support and mental illness is one of them....

if we can't get guns done because of this can we at least get mental health done because of this shit?

If Trump wants to blame mental illness fine let's get some bills up for vote.... Feel like we should take the low-hanging fruit....

Maybe it'll have an effect on shootings....maybe it'll have effect on homelessness..... Maybe it'll have an effect on poverty......

I say let's call his bluff..... Get what we can out of it....

[PandoraAwakened]

31. Problem is, he's the one calling the bluff

The Orange Turd already defunded help for the mentally ill and has no intent of giving another thought to the subject. Reading words from a teleprompter means absolutely nothing to this shitbag.

[Tarc]

41. This is not a mental illness thing. It is an "easy access to guns" + "toxic masculinity" thing

Two overlapping, violent cultures.

[SHRED]

45. Well said