THe World Verges On Complete Chaos

[Me.]

"We are being eaten from within."

“Kyrgyzstan's former president detained after violent clashes”

“Italy's coalition government on brink of collapse”

“Kashmir: India's 'draconian' blackout sets worrying precedent”

and so on and so forth....

[True Dough]

1. At any given time in history, you'd find predictions of doom or headlines forecasting turmoil

Trump is exacerbating matters, no doubt. But I won't lie awake at night fearing that the world is descending into armageddon.

We should all focus on the elements we can control: Voting, volunteering, being responsible citizens, donating to charity (if you can afford it).

Be well.

[dugog55]

2. Yes, but at any given time

there has never been so many billionaires in the world. They are out to cause chaos, fear and panic. They control they the media. People are gullible as P. T. Barnum so boldly announced. As long as the media keeps slanting the message to the masses, the rich can keep getting richer and pit the masses against each other in many ways. The poor people are the problem, the brown people are the problem, social benefits are the problem, the muslims, etc...

The elite of the world finally have enough money to control it all, and they are succeeding. Regardless of how many right-hearted people on the planet, there are enough morons who think they are just temporarily disenfranchised millionaires that will keep believing what the see and hear in the media.

[True Dough]

3. But it's all relative

Sure, the billionaires are wealthier than their rich counterparts of the 1700 and 1800s, but the monarchies of those times were having people exterminated. French revolutionaries were being guillotined. Native Americans were being decimated by militaristic attacks and disease.

Would you rather live in the days of Genghis Khan, Joseph Stalin or Donald Trump? Vietnam, Korea, World War I, World War II or today?

I loathe Trump and I want him (and McConnell and Stephen Miller) reined in as soon as possible but it's preposterous to compare 2019 to the truly horrific chaos of history.

I'd rather not be alarmist.

[2020Junker]

15. I wanted to co-sign this

Humans are rarely doomed. We definitely have problems. We always do. But, we're wily creatures, adaptable, and will adjust accordingly.

That doesn't mean there won't be suffering, tragedy, even horrors. But we're inching along.

Imagine how people must've felt during something like WW II. It must've felt like the world was descending into Hell itself.

We're nowhere near that. Despite what the media say, we are currently operating under the most peaceful, prosperous age in world history. Certainly modern history. And this isn't a hopefully optimistic notion. It's been objectively measured.

What we are undergoing is a hyper-awareness of every problem in existence. Mass media and the Internet have made every single problem anywhere on the globe part of our daily consciousness. Imagine if Lincoln had cameras on him every single day, wanting a sound byte for Cold Harbor? We perceive all these problems and threats and assume everything is going to shit.

It's not.

The one exception I'd truly make is climate change. There is turbulence coming. Massive disruption. And once climate change really kicks into high gear, migration, diminished resources (think fresh water), and a species pressed to its limits are going to cause a new eruption of conflict across the globe. Think 1848 in Europe but on a global scale.

But humans are squirrelly things. We've weathered a world in melt down before. We will do it again. It won't be pleasant, but what choice do we have in the matter? We have to keep pushing so what's next is better than what was before.

[True Dough]

16. Exactly!

This is the sort of stuff I recite to the Jehovah's Witnesses who show up at my door and immediately suggest to me that we live in such horrifying times and cite a couple of conflicts around the globe.

I tell 'em to get serious. So few deaths from war, relatively speaking. All this technology at my fingertips and a vehicle in the driveway that takes me anywhere I need to go and a roof over my head. I wouldn't trade living here and now for any period in the past.

[2020Junker]

18. Imagine if The Year Without A Summer happened now

(And it absolutely can happen again at any moment)

Do you think we'd be parsing Twitter videos about every minutiae of politics?

I have a history degree, so I'm a little more attuned to what has come before. We'll be ok. It's the fact that our society has been so successful that we have the luxury of taking to the granular level of things as life and death battles we must combat.

And I'm for that, honestly. We built a base, now let's get at the finer details. That's human progress.

But this, "The world is over, this is the worst thing that ever happened in our history!" caterwauling I cannot do. If what you saw on CNN was the worst thing that happened to you that day and set your entire mood to misery is a sign of incredibly comfortable privilege.

And that's just on an insular American scale. I had a homeless guy approach me in an empty parking lot this morning as I was walking home from store. He started telling me the story of his son and his family. He didn't ask for money. He just wanted to have someone listen to his problems, what was weighing him down. So I did for about twenty minutes. He seemed to feel better by the time we parted. He just wanted one person to listen and validate him as a human being.

Meanwhile, "I saw something on Twitter, and it's keeping me up at night!"

Oh, you sweet, comfortable summer child. Slow your entirely privileged roll.

[True Dough]

19. You gave the homeless guy 20 minutes?

That was kind of you. Sometimes a listening ear is worth more than cash.

[2020Junker]

20. I did

I was a social worker once upon a time. And it's in my nature. I wasn't entirely following his story. It had to do with his son having a new girlfriend who was seeking money out of the son or else she threatened to move to Reno. But, I nodded along, interjected where I thought I could, and just went along with it.

Nice, older guy with the most striking gray eyes. He didn't seem mentally ill or drug abusive. Just down on his times. I did recommend some local resources, but I don't think he was really listening to me. He just wanted to get out what needed out of his head and heart. He tottled off once the conversation was done, and I went home to my umpteen dollar macbook to work my umpteen dollar job while streaming a Netflix show in the background.

He asked for nothing the entire time. He just wanted to talk. So we did.

[True Dough]

21. Nice

Welcome to the DU, by the way.

What are you watching on Netflix? My wife and I aren't currently subscribed but when the cooler weather arrives in the fall we plan to sign up again and binge on Chernobyl.

[2020Junker]

26. Oh, be careful

Chernobyl is an amazing, amazing show. It's only five or six episodes, but it's all so well done. I knew what happened there, but I didn't quite know, if you follow my meaning. And once you see what they actually did, you'll start wondering about humanity, both good and bad. It's a masterpiece of television, IMO.

Right now, I'm watching the Tudors. Just because I'm familiar with Tudor history and have never seen the show. I'm half a season in, and while they get the broad strokes, it feels a little like trash. Not sure I'll last. It's not amazingly written.

My friends had me watch Veronica Mars of late. It's cute. I love Kristen Bell in the Good Place (if you haven't seen it, you must), so it's kind of fun watching her early career.

While nursing a sprained ankle two weeks ago, I binged Stranger Things. That show is a mindset. I enjoyed it. I wouldn't effuse about it, but it definitely has its moments. And only ten episodes a season.

I'm not sure how this thread devolved into us discussing this, but lol, yay! I do watch too much tv.

Also, thank you for the welcome!

[True Dough]

43. Didn't "devolve" at all, IMO

Nothing wrong with getting to know each other. We don't even have to stand around in a parking lot to do it!


We're up for Chernobyl. I know it's not easy viewing but we're fascinated by the subject matter. Crazy to think that place has become a tourist "hot spot," so to speak, at least among those with unbridled curiosity and a reckless edge.

[2020Junker]

46. It'll be rough if you watch this

"Do this and you will die."

And they did it anyway.

(Also, nice to get to know people =)).

[emmaverybo]

39. By the same token, a first nuclear war, even limited, will likely cause environmental catastrophe.

Dems need to pay attention to the increased potential for nuclear conflict presented by a rise in the number of nuclear arms around the world, weakened alliances, an unsteady and contradictory foreign policy, and a lack of will to address nuclear proliferation.

[2020Junker]

40. I disagree with 0% of what you just said

It is absolutely one of our challenges.

Trump is a destabilizing force. It's why it's so vital we beat him. And I honestly think we will, with whomever we manage to nominate during our primary scrapping about.

[emmaverybo]

41. Yes we can! NT

[Caliman73]

42. Especially India v. Pakistan

The whole Kashmir thing is not good, especially with Trump who is completely incompetent and Modi who is an ultra nationalist. It is sad when the most sensible person in this triangle is a relatively green, nationalist, former cricket player in the Prime Minister of Pakistan, Imran Khan. Both countries have enough nuclear weapons to cause serious damage.

[Me.]

44. That Entire Kasmir Shut Down

Horrid for the people there, disastrous precedent for the world and a shame on India

[emmaverybo]

45. No landlines and Indian army won't let them out to pick up meds for babies, for needed

surgeries. Gunshots during night reported. We just can’t know what is happening to Kashmiri’s.

[Me.]

47. It's Bad

“Since Sunday, Delhi has entirely shut down the Internet, landline and mobile networks in the India-controlled part of the Himalayan region of Kashmir — leaving some 7 million people stranded without any way to contact family and friends. In an unprecedented bid to clamp down on its part of the disputed territory, the Indian government has closed schools, banned public meetings, and barricaded roads and neighborhoods in Srinagar, the region’s largest city that lies in the Kashmir Valley.

With the help of over 38,000 additional troops dispatched to Kashmir over the past week, authorities have arrested more than 100 people, including political leaders and activists considered a threat to peace in the Valley. Meanwhile, police confirmed Wednesday that a young protester died after jumping into a river while being chased by police during a curfew in Srinagar.

But few Kashmiris will know about that. Many of them will not even know that on Monday morning, Indian Home Minister Amit Shah announced to Parliament that the Indian government would strip their state of the special status that it held under the Indian Constitution for the last 70 years.

With the help of over 38,000 additional troops dispatched to Kashmir over the past week, authorities have arrested more than 100 people, including political leaders and activists considered a threat to peace in the Valley. Meanwhile, police confirmed Wednesday that a young protester died after jumping into a river while being chased by police during a curfew in Srinagar.”

https://time.com/5646005/inside-kashmir-communication-shutdown/

[emmaverybo]

48. Thank you for this update. Yes, very, very bad.

[Kid Berwyn]

4. New crises develop faster than the old ones can be solved.

Take fascism, please.

[Me.]

5. They Are Piling Up

[Initech]

6. Nearly all of this can be tied to social media disinformation.

Our governments are being turned upside down and inside out because of this bullshit. Freedom and progress are being shunned for isolation, fascism, and dictatorships. We're seeing widespread white supremacy, hatred, bigotry, nationalism,and neo Nazism come back on a global scale. People are getting meaner, ruder, and cruder. And all of this can be tied to guess who? Vladimir Putin.

Social media disinformation has done more damage to the world than Al Qaeda or ISIS ever would or could.

[Me.]

7. That DEserves Credit For Part Of It

But so do those in power in other countries, like ours, who have an agenda of working only for their best interests whether it be for financial or ideological gains.

I don't know what Putin has to do with the Indian Nationalists and what they are doing to Kasmir though I can draw a line to presidential candidate here who supports them and at the same time also has positive things to say about Putin. So maybe it's an infestation after all, but the vermin are different from who the traitor in the WH claims them to be.

[SharonAnn]

22. Russia is sowing discord, inflaming the situations way beyond what they'd been.

[A HERETIC I AM]

8. None of this matters.

The melt off is accelerating.

You will be able to swim in the ocean off Barrow, Alaska in a couple years.

Where I am sitting will be underwater at high tide.

We are doomed.

Other than that, the play was lovely.

[Me.]

9. It Does Matter

Because we will never stop the insanity regarding the climate until everything changes and unless we get rid of these people nothing will change.

[A HERETIC I AM]

11. No it doesn't.

Because there is nothing that can be done at this point.

Humans need to plant every single square inch of arable land with hemp TOMORROW and all that will do is slow down the inevitable.

Large swaths of the most populated areas on earth will soon be too hot to live in.

The other day, enough ice melted in Greenland to cover the entire state of Florida in 4 inches of water. IN ONE FUCKING DAY!

We are burning this planet.

And we keep throwing fuel on the fire.

[Me.]

12. We Disagree

I understand your panic as I feel it too, but I believe there is still a slight window which is why we need change.

[A HERETIC I AM]

14. It's not panic, I assure you.

It is resignation to ....

"An Inconvenient Truth"

And yes, I saw that movie in the theater when it came out 13 years ago.

Humanity is fucking doomed, and even if we went all out with every single effort science can suggest, there is damned little that can be done. The upper floors of the skyscrapers in downtown Miami will be 60 or more miles out to sea inside my youngest nephews lifetime.

[Me.]

23. For Me...It's Panic

[pwb]

25. I worked outside for forty years. I felt it get warmer, less snow etc.

And its worst now. I Agree with you .

[A HERETIC I AM]

29. I lived in Detroit through the 90's....

from 89 to 99. I got to know numerous folks who were multi-generational residents.

In the entire ten years I was there, there were exactly THREE major snow storms/blizzards where the snow depth was over ten inches. Now mind you, it snowed every winter, to be sure. It would snow and there would be 2 or 3 inches or a dusting or a good shot would come along and 6 or 8 inches would accumulate.

But I was told numerous times BACK THEN that when those old time residents were kids, it was the case that there would be a 12" snowfall EVERY YEAR that would close the schools for 3 days or whatever - that would paralyze the city and the metro area for at least 48 hours till the plows had their chance to clear shit up.


The news from the other day...the loss of ice in Greenland, as I stated above, coupled with the news I read today that the nearest Alaskan Arctic sea ice is ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY MILES OFF SHORE means we are fucked.

That's all there is to it.

I predict in the next 10 to 15 years we will see MASSIVE migrations from the very hot zones northward. That means millions of Indians seeking cooler climes north of the Himalayas. Millions of Africans looking to move north, or south, if possible, etc.

It ain't gonna be pretty.

[pwb]

31. I agree. The US south will be desert.

And the beat goes on.

[A HERETIC I AM]

35. Not sure if that will necessarily be the case....

I stated in another thread, the spot where I sit typing this is 12' above sea level. The bottom of my driveway will be wet at high tide much, much sooner than many people seem to think. I believe it will be after I'm gone, but it will happen.

I don't think Florida, Georgia and the rest of the south will be a desert, rather perhaps turn into a rain forest type climate. TOO much rainfall. That certainly was the trend over the Spring.

But alas, I am by no means a scientist. I just read a fair amount.

[misanthrope]

50. I believe you're correct

The Gulf of Mexico will keep the Deep south moist and steamy. However, with the increased overall heat, that's not necessarily a good thing. Disease runs rampant through conditions like that.

The other thing about the Deep South is that it is prone to meteorological disaster like hurricanes and tornadoes. That will only increase with more energy in the atmosphere.

[Eliot Rosewater]

28. It is too late to avoid the death of billions and a drastic change in the way the few billion left

over will live.

It is coinciding with a time when fascists are controlling idiots like rumpers, racists, etc. Putin is in charge here and elsewhere.

My FANTASY is to live long enough to watch climate change deniers suffer the consequences of their denial. I want to watch it on TV.

[A HERETIC I AM]

30. To see the lobby of Mar-A-Lago underwater at high tide....

and Rush Limbaugh's house as well, would definitely be sweet justice!

[Eliot Rosewater]

32. Oh yes, and more

And I will LAUGH my ASS off at the results.

It wont be a joke like Gilbert Gottfried

I just split up with my girlfriend, but as the Japanese say "they'll be another one floating by any minute"

Aflac fired Gilbert because they learned he was a comedian (tweeted by someone after they fired him)

Anyway, I am pointing out that I wont be making a joke in an uncomfortable situation as per the Gilbert example, I will actually be desiring to see them suffer the consequences they have put us ALL IN because of their ignorance.

[A HERETIC I AM]

37. Indeed.

And there isn't a damned thing wrong with dark humor. It is a strong coping mechanism.

Q: What do a tornado, a hurricane and a redneck divorce have in common?

A: In the end, someone is going to lose a mobile home.

[former9thward]

34. No Scientist says what you posted.

But this is the internet so go for it....

[A HERETIC I AM]

38. I would absolutely love to be disproven, trust me.

And it is of course, the internet.

As far as no scientist saying what I said, I'm not a subscriber to all of the pertinent journals - maybe you are - but from what I have come to understand, this shit is accelerating in ways that even the most staid observer is surprised by.

[emmaverybo]

33. Even a limited nuclear war can lead to global climate catastrophe and famine sooner than

predicted now in the absence of same. Let’s look at the worst case scenario for one flashpoint:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/110996655/a-limited-indiapakistan-nuclear-war-could-wreck-the-climate-and-trigger-global-famine

[maxsolomon]

10. Things are more like they are now than ever before.

It's not in a World War right now, so it could be worse...

[Me.]

13. I Worry Someone Will Pull That Trigger

which is why a fightback is needed. Even in Kasmir, they are doing so...without communication, in the face of massive arrests and despite the most extreme complete lockdown of a country.

[blugbox]

17. Imagine living during the Black Death during the 1300's

If you live in Europe, that is your entire world... and 2 out of 3 people EVERYWHERE are dead...

I would have thought that is the end of mankind.

I like to keep in mind that there is an opposite end, where we are constantly making new technological and medical breakthroughs.

I think the bad is getting worse, and the good is getting better.

[Me.]

24. Love That Line

"I think the bad is getting worse, and the good is getting better"

[Submariner]

27. The world population was 3 billion in 1960, it's almost 8 billion now

Societal pressures and violence is only going to get much worse. Murder events will multiply exponentially.

I feel bad for the infants born now. They will be so screwed when they graduate high school. Toxic water and food poisoning. All the ocean fisheries wiped out. 120 to 130 degree daytime temps below the Mason Dixon line.

Your grandkids are going to very pissed and unhappy.

[Me.]

36. Sigh

[RussBLib]

49. Same as it ever was

In practically every era

[misanthrope]

51. Have you perused Deep Adaptation?

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vbwpdb/the-climate-change-paper-so-depressing-its-sending-people-to-therapy

[Me.]

52. Thank You , No I Haven't

and believe I will give it a miss, hearing how much of the Amazon we are losing is bad enough. Aside from the harmful effects of the change I believe the sense of helplessness, can't do anything about it, is the emotional issue. There doesn't seem to be any way to stop Bolsonaro from giving the Amazon away to greedy people just as the WH traitor is doing everything he can to destroy do much of the good in this country and so little is being done to stop him. Don't get me wrong, there are people waging a mighty battle but so much of what he and his minions are doing, is done stealthily, that we don't find out about it until after it's done.

[Anon-C]

53. Kashmir is extra-special, a trial run for authoritarians.

Gabbard's had inroads with the Modi government, maybe Breitbard, Fox News or the other networks supporting her can ask her, on the record, what she thinks about the situation for the Kashmiris that may not be so aligned.

[Me.]

54. She Supports Modi And The Hardliner Hindu Nationalists

who have been biding their time and looking for the opportunity to press forward with their Hindu beliefs?

[Anon-C]

55. Me. thinks so!