We laugh at RW, QAnon Conspiracy Theories...but you can take LW CTs to the bank. Why?

[stopbush]

Last edited Sat Aug 10, 2019, 06:23 PM - Edit history (1)

are LW CTs better? Less improbable? More logical?

Don’t think so.

[Codeine]

1. Both sides like to pretend they're the logical side.

Paranoia, however, knows no ideology.

[cwydro]

11. That's for damn sure.

Over the years I’ve seen some fascinating stuff here.

[Joe941]

24. Just stop with the both sides rubbish.

[Codeine]

30. Transparent. nt

[CurtEastPoint]

2. A little help here. What does all this mean?

[Codeine]

4. In more straightforward terms

“We laugh at Right Wing Qanon conspiracy theories . . . but you can take Left Wing conspiracy theories to the bank. Why?”

[W_HAMILTON]

7. What constitutes a left-wing conspiracy theory to you?

[Codeine]

10. I'm just translating the OP

from acronym to English.

[Archae]

17. The JFK murder, for one...

[stopbush]

20. Yep. That one's never going away, in spite of the overwhelming evidence

that the Warren Commission got it right.

[ZZenith]

22. Bullshit.

[stopbush]

23. Have you ever read the Warren Report? Be honest.

[ZZenith]

26. Yes.

It’s bullshit.

[stopbush]

29. You don't find the forensic evidence compelling?

Ballistic tests?

Huh.

[ZZenith]

31. I do not.

Suit yourself.

[former9thward]

27. The Warren Commission were prosecutors with a theory of the case.

They only interviewed and took evidence from those who would support that theory -- the Oswald was a "lone nut" who killed JFK with no help or no real reason. And that Ruby, a petty mobster from Chicago, killed Oswald as a "lone act" because he was "upset at the grief of the First Lady."

They purposely did not look at any evidence which would contradict the theory or interview anyone who would support anything different.

So yes, the Warren Report reads nice and logical. Just as it was supposed to.

[stopbush]

28. That is a total misrepresentation of the Warren Report. Outright lies.

Spoken like one who hasn’t read a word of it. Shameful, really.

[former9thward]

33. My, so defensive.

Must have hit a sore spot...

[stopbush]

36. I have a sore spot when people talk thru their hats.

25,000 interviews done by the Warren Commission. How likely is it that every one of those interviews was done with a person who toed the Commission line?

It was just a totally ignorant statement.

BTW - did you know that the Warren Report stated that there could have been a conspiracy to kill JFK, but that their investigation found no evidence of the same? That the Report stated that such evidence could turn up in the future?

No. Of course you didn’t know that...because you’ve never read the WCR.

[former9thward]

45. The exact same people who love the Warren report

dismiss the Congressional findings of 1979 which found a conspiracy. Yes, alot of people were interviewed and alot of interviews never made it to the Commission. Do you really think the Commission members listened to 25,000 interviews? BTW the Commission was largely made up of enemies of the JFK administration. Hardly the people who are going to give an objective analysis.

[stopbush]

46. True...except that the finding of a conspiracy by the HSCA hearings (1978)

was based on a single piece of “evidence” that was highly disputed at the time and that has been definitively falsified in the intervening years.

In fact, the Congress could have saved themselves the post-hearing embarrassment of getting it wrong had they listened to motorcycle officer HB McLain, who told them that his motorcycle was no where near the intersection of Elm and Houston when the imaginary fourth shot was supposedly recorded by he dictabelt device on his cycle. But they discounted his eyewitness, first-person testimony.

See here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_assassination_Dictabelt_recording

[former9thward]

52. You proved my point. Thank you.

[stopbush]

58. I don't think you're making the point you think you're making.

Your response is along the lines of saying, “the same people who dismiss the idea that the Clintons are running a child slavery ring out of a pizza parlor are the same people who deny the 9/11 MIHOP theories.”

If you deal in FACTS, you tend to dismiss the non-factual. The HSCA finding that a fourth shot was recorded at Dealey Plaza is nonfactual. End of story.

[jberryhill]

51. Too bad that Ted Kennedy never gave a shit who killed his brother, eh?

Even knowing that his final book would be published after his death, Ted Kennedy endorsed the finding that LHO killed JFK.

If only JFK had family that cared.

[oswaldactedalone]

53. Oswald acted alone

Move on... no conspiracy. Oswald was just as likely shooting at Connolly as Kennedy.

Now, why was Epstein taken off suicide watch? That question needs to be answered and the wrong answer might indicate nefarious activity.

[jberryhill]

54. Well of course you would say that

[former9thward]

55. I wasn't going to bring the Kennedy family into this but since you did....

Last year, the son and namesake of the late Attorney General Robert Kennedy revealed publicly that his father had considered the Warren Commission’s final report, which largely ruled out the possibility of a conspiracy in the assassination of John F. Kennedy, to be a “shoddy piece of craftsmanship.” Robert Jr. said his father suspected that the president had been killed in a conspiracy involving Cuba, the Mafia or even rogue agents of the CIA. Historian Arthur Schlesinger Jr., a close friend of the Kennedy family, would disclose years later that he was told by Robert Kennedy in December 1963, a month after the president’s murder, that the former attorney general worried that the assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald, was “part of a larger plot, whether organized by Castro or by gangsters.” Schlesinger said that in 1966, two years after the Warren Commission report, Kennedy was still so suspicious about a conspiracy that he wondered aloud “how long he could continue to avoid comment on the report—it is evident that he believes it is was poor job.”

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/10/was-bobby-kennedy-a-jfk-conspiracy-theorist-111729

DALLAS (AP) — Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is convinced that a lone gunman wasn't solely responsible for the assassination of his uncle, President John F. Kennedy, and said his father believed the Warren Commission report was a "shoddy piece of craftsmanship."

"The evidence at this point I think is very, very convincing that it was not a lone gunman," he said, but he didn't say what he believed may have happened.

Rose asked if he believed his father, the U.S. attorney general at the time of his brother's death, felt "some sense of guilt because he thought there might have been a link between his very aggressive efforts against organized crime." Kennedy replied: "I think that's true. He talked about that. He publicly supported the Warren Commission report but privately he was dismissive of it."

He said his father had investigators do research into the assassination and found that phone records of Oswald and nightclub owner Jack Ruby, who killed Oswald two days after the president's assassination, "were like an inventory" of mafia leaders the government had been investigating. He said his father, later elected U.S. senator in New York, was "fairly convinced" that others were involved.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/12/rfk-kennedy-assassination-warren/1828405/

[jberryhill]

56. I asked about Ted

And not his batshit crazy nephew.

RFK Jr. probably thinks vaccines killed JFK.

[former9thward]

59. You said "If only JFK had family that cared."

Does his brother not count as "family"? Or do you think his children are all lying about it? Talk about a CT....

[jberryhill]

60. RFK Jr. is not his brother

[former9thward]

61. RFK was.

The articles are about what RFK thought, not his kids.

[jberryhill]

62. The article consists entirely of RFK Jr.'s account

No, I don’t believe a thing that loon has to say.

[former9thward]

70. And his sister.

So they are both liars. OK, got it....

[0rganism]

78. lol seldom have i seen a speculative point illustrated so concretely by what follows

example confirmed

[Hortensis]

79. Concrete being the key word.

[Celerity]

25. this below certainly qualifies

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212359829

Also, even though she is a POS ex Tory MP, Louise Mensch's claptrap (and grifting off it) deffo serves an an example as well.

[Ms. Toad]

35. Not according to DU juries

[Celerity]

65. juries have nothing to do with it nt

[Ms. Toad]

67. Except that CT and conspiracies are not supposed to be spread on DU, per the TOS

And juries have apparenlty decided they aren't conspirasies.

[Celerity]

68. Juries are entirely subjective, one person's 'truth' at that moment may turn out to be nothing more

that a CT fantasy when exposed to the march onward of time. Mensch's snake oil ofttimes being a perfect example.

[muriel_volestrangler]

48. Why does a Tory 'deffo' count as left wing?

That seems ridiculous. I know you know about British politics.

And no, saying the staff in photos are from a different hospital is not comparable to saying Angela Merkel is Hitler's granddaughter, or that Trump was using Mueller to investigate a vast Democratic conspiracy. Get real.

[Celerity]

64. I am saying that the CT rot Mensch pushes is bought by many on the left

[CurtEastPoint]

9. Thank you. I got RW but CT when Googled got me Connecticut and Computed tomography

[Crunchy Frog]

37. It means that it's just as crazy to wonder why a high profile prisoner

Was taken off suicide watch as it is to believe that a former president was running a child sex ring out of the basement of a pizza parlor that had no basement.

In other words, it's a form of "both siderism".

[Hortensis]

81. Wrong example. There are a few here who leaped

directly to murder and so far have felt no need to look back, very post-truth-ish, but at least with a rational basis that causes sensible experts to seriously consider the possibility.

You can't say that about those who think Hillary and her clients eat children's faces.

[Crunchy Frog]

82. I wouldn't rule out murder myself.

It's not like it's unheard of in a prison, and it's not like the rich and powerful men who were his clients would be above that sort of thing.

I'm currently agnostic on his death, and definitely would need more information before deciding that I knew for certain what did or didn't happen. Not sure if that makes me a wild eyed conspiracy theorist or not.

[Hortensis]

84. Me either, same for suicide. If someone was that afraid

he'd talk, though, he, she or they sure waited dangerously long. I'd have had him fall off a yacht some dark night long before.

[TwilightZone]

3. It's an interesting dynamic.

Some of it is because it's human nature to more readily believe something if it conforms to our preconceived notions or is in line with what we want reality to be. That's been proven in multiple studies.

Personally, I'm skeptical about pretty much everything so I tend not to buy into conspiracy theories simply by default, especially early in events and particularly if they're based largely on social media accounts or questionable sources.

I also tend to think Occam's Razor applies more than many might want to believe.

[RDANGELO]

5. What are the lw conspiracy theories?

[hlthe2b]

6. Sometimes the point is just to throw a bomb out there, I guess.

By the OP not specifying the reference no one gets to question.

[stopbush]

18. I'd say the JFK CTs are the grand daddy of all CTs that appeal to lefties.

And the 9/11 CTs - MIHOP and LIHOP - were taken up by we lefties with zeal.

[muriel_volestrangler]

49. As pushed by Alex Jones? Not 'left wing'. Just crazy.

No, there was not a movement in the Democrats to take them up. Compare that with Trump supporters turning up at his rallies with QAnon crap.

[hack89]

19. 9/11 is a good example. Nt

[JonLP24]

34. Saudis were involved in 9-11

That much was revealed in the 28 pages. Bush wanted to blame Iraq & Saddam but covered up Saudi involvement. There is a real conspiracy there that is often overlooked for controlled demolition or building 7 or whatever.

[hack89]

39. And my point is proved. Nt

[JonLP24]

40. Have you heard of the 9-11 victims lawsuit against Saudi Arabia?

Professional lawyers believe in the conspiracy too or did you buy Bush's bullshit theory that Saddam was involved in 9-11?

Have you read the 28 pages after much of it was declassified?

Saudi embassy may have funded 9/11 'dry run': report

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2017/09/saudi-embassy-funded-911-dry-run-report-170909223532351.html

[JonLP24]

41. Saudi Arabia government 'funded dry run' for 9/11, legal documents claim

The Saudi Arabian embassy in Washington DC may have funded a “dry run” of the 9/11 attacks, according to evidence submitted to an ongoing lawsuit against the Saudi government.

As reported by the New York Post, the embassy might have used two of its employees for the so-called dry run before a dozen hijackers flew two planes into the Twin Towers, killing nearly 3,000 people in 2001.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/911-saudi-government-embassy-dry-run-hijacks-lawsuit-cockpit-security-a7938791.html%3famp

Saudi Arabia = wahabbism = al-Qaeda

[Kaleva]

43. Bush having an earthquake machine is a good example

"Iranian Earthquake- B*sh did it but how?

I've heard tectonic weapons tossed around but what if that evil dummy prayed for the quake??? "

" Wow look at that!

They've actually grown in frequency in that area since * took office! I count 6 there since 2001, which according to this table, equals the total number from 1923 until that time! "

"i totally believe we use earthquakes as weapons

the 'star wars' docket at the patent and trademark office is chockablock with all kinds of weather/earthquake-creating apparati

why would folks think you can't do this on purpose? "

Then there is the DU Classic "NASA to bomb the Moon".

[muriel_volestrangler]

50. A thread or two on DU, versus an infamous RW movement which has them going to Trump rallies

with QAnon Tshirts. QAnon has had huge support from the RW, compared with a couple of threads on DU which were half people telling them they're crazy.

[Kaleva]

66. Your comment doesn't refute my own comment to the poster who asked for examples.

The CTs about Bush's earthquake machine aren't just limited to a couple of threads here at DU as a google search will show. There's also discussions about Bush's alleged use of a hurricane machine which he used to attack New Orleans with.

[Kaleva]

71. Another example of a LW CT is George H.W. Bush involved in murdering JFK

Yet another is Preston Bush financing Adolf Hitler.

[muriel_volestrangler]

72. Those are better, since they don't just get laughed at, unlike the earthquake/hurricane machines

However, they are still nothing like the scale of QAnon. Again, you don't see signs and clothing about them at mainstream rallies. Whether there's been much talk about Preston Bush financing Hitler, I'm not so sure; more of happily doing business with the Nazis until forced to stop. And there's evidence that there was some business, it's just how much, and how long it went on for.

[Kaleva]

73. Prescott Bush was a close friend and business associate of W. Averell Harriman

W. Averell Harriman

"William Averell Harriman (November 15, 1891 – July 26, 1986), better known as Averell Harriman, was an American Democratic politician, businessman, and diplomat. The son of railroad baron E. H. Harriman, he served as Secretary of Commerce under President Harry S. Truman and later as the 48th Governor of New York. He was a candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination in 1952 and 1956, as well as a core member of the group of foreign policy elders known as "The Wise Men" ...

In 1954, Harriman defeated Republican Senator Irving Ives to become the Governor of New York. He served a single term before his defeat by Nelson Rockefeller in the 1958 election. Harriman unsuccessfully sought the presidential nomination at the 1952 Democratic National Convention and the 1956 Democratic National Convention. Though Harriman had Truman's backing at the 1956 convention, the Democrats nominated Adlai Stevenson II in both elections.

After his gubernatorial defeat, Harriman became a widely respected foreign policy elder within the Democratic Party. He helped negotiate the Partial Nuclear Test Ban Treaty during President John F. Kennedy's administration and was deeply involved in the Vietnam War during the Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson administrations. After Johnson left office in 1969, Harriman affiliated with various organizations, including the Club of Rome and the Council on Foreign Relations. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Averell_Harriman

"W. Averell Harriman also formed a partnership with the German industrialist, Fritz Thyssen. In 1926 Harriman and Clarence Dillon of Dillon Read Company helped Thyssen and Friedrich Flick to establish the German Steel Trust. According to Anton Chaitkin: "The Flick-Harriman partnership was directly supervised by Prescott Bush". Dillon Read provided two representatives to the board of the German Steel Trust and took responsibility for its corporate banking."

https://spartacus-educational.com/MDbushPR.htm

"The Union Banking Corporation (UBC) was a banking corporation in the US whose assets were seized by the United States government on October 20, 1942 during World War II under the U.S. Trading with the Enemy Act and Executive Order No. 9095. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Banking_Corporation

"The Harriman business interests seized under the act in October and November 1942 included:

Union Banking Corporation (UBC) (from Thyssen and Brown Brothers Harriman)
Holland-American Trading Corporation (from Harriman)
Seamless Steel Equipment Corporation (from Harriman)
Silesian-American Corporation (this company was partially owned by a German entity; during the war the Germans tried to take the full control of Silesian-American. In response to that, American government seized German owned minority shares in the company, leaving the U.S. partners to carry on the portion of the business in the United States.)

The assets were held by the government for the duration of the war, then returned afterward; UBC was dissolved in 1951. "

https://fampeople.com/cat-w-averell-harriman_3.

The problem with the Prescott Bush CT is that they never, ever mention the role W. Averell Harriman played

[TSIAS]

69. Steve Bannon getting the death penalty

Trump has already been impeached and will be taken away by the martial of the Supreme Court.

Steve Bannon will be given the death penalty for treason.

Tulsi Gabbard is a plant installed by the Kremlin.

Just to name a few.

[Hortensis]

83. My observation is that they're often influenced by

extremely well funded and disseminated RW conspiracies, which they give their own twists.

Not surprising. When's the last time a squabble over the Oswald's visit to the Soviet embassy or the grassy knoll divided into right and left factions?

Conspiracists on both" sides" share some fascinatingly dysfunctional personality traits that dispose them to conspiracy explanations. By definition conspiracists are neither seeing nor connecting truth dots rationally, and both types also have a tendency to extremist traits which also tend to pull them together against everyone else.

Those often (usually?) include hostility toward the Democratic Party. As a psychologist flippantly said, RW extremists tend to hate everyone else and LW extremists tend to hate themselves. Intersection: The Democratic Party. Of course they also all share what scholars say are high degrees of "BS receptivity," what makes people believe that Louis Mensch's regurg of what she reads in the NYT proves she has special inside knowledge.

A lot more fun to read about than try to talk to.

[uponit7771]

8. It's not rational to take the Trump admin at face value

[procon]

12. I need an acronym translator.

When you write in code speak that only a certain few understands, you block out the majority of readers. You post in the General forum so make it easier for everyone to read by providing definitions or at least a bit of backstory.

[stopbush]

21. There is a limit to the character count in a subject line. Ergo the acronyms.

But I’m a nice guy, so I did an edit and squeezed in what I could to make things clearer.

[Claritie Pixie]

13. T and B and GOP are proven liars.

Why is it a conspiracy to not believe them?

[Jake Stern]

14. Is about the Epstein suicide?

I agree. A whole bunch of conspiracy theorizing going on.

Example: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212367531

[hlthe2b]

16. You forgot your sarcasm thingy, given you posted a link to former US attorney Harry Litman's OP ED

in the Washington Post.

[Quixote1818]

15. It is one thing to be suspicious when someone who could take so many wealthy folks down, dies

compared to these asshats who fucking believe in shape shifting, Sandy Hook being a hoax and JFK Jr. is alive and part of QAnon. I don't know yet what to believe with Epstein's death yet and will wait for more information to come out but super powerful people do have ways of killing off people who could destroy their lives. That being said, maybe he already talked?

Not sure what you mean by taking left wing conspiracy theories to the bank? I think people just think it looks suspicious and want to it looked into:

&t=41s

[blm]

80. Exactly.

[stillcool]

32. You can't take anything to the bank...

just use your head, and theorize what you want to believe is closest to true. Or, disregard. It doesn't matter how much factual information is presented...those who don't like a certain account of events, will call it a "conspiracy" theory. In the meantime, what happens when there is no truth? If enough people agree on a course of events it becomes reality. Whether true of not.

[flotsam]

38. From the days of 9/11-Lihop and Mihop

The thing with Epstein is that he endangered an entire galaxy of powerful people and that both are entirely plausible-in fact neither one is any less plausible than the story put out so far...

[NewJeffCT]

74. LIHOP and MIHOP

were never nearly as pervasive as anything we get from QANon - heck, the Governor or Lt Governor of Texas called out the local national guard a few years back because of the preposterous Jade Helm government takeover myth.

have any Democratic politicians - House, Senate or White House - promoted LIHOP or MIHOP? I don't think I remember anybody.

[MicaelS]

42. The Paranoid Style in American Politics...

Explains it all.

Americans have been paranoids for hundreds of years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paranoid_Style_in_American_Politics?wprov=sfla1

People cannot accept bad things happen sometimes for no reason at all. Others cannot accept a great man can be brought down by a nobody. Thus there has to be a conspiracy behind such things.

[ecstatic]

44. This is why we can never get anywhere.

So you're saying we should ignore red flags in an attempt to distinguish ourselves from the right wing? Even when there's zero comparison? Their conspiracy theories are batshit crazy! Context matters.

[muriel_volestrangler]

47. Which LW conspiracy theory do you think is as improbable as QAnon?

Remember, this is QAnon:

QAnon's posting campaign has a history of false, baseless, and unsubstantiated claims. Beginning with the first posts incorrectly predicting Hillary Clinton's imminent arrest and followed by more false allegations, such as claiming that North Korean Supreme Leader Kim Jong-un is a puppet ruler installed by the Central Intelligence Agency,[44] QAnon's posts have become more cryptic and vague allowing followers to map their own beliefs onto them.[45] By generating a keyboard heatmap of QAnon's supposedly coded messages, information security researcher Mark Burnett concluded that they "are not actual codes, just random typing by someone who might play an instrument and uses a QWERTY keyboard", adding that "almost all the characters" in the codes alternate between the left and right hands, or the characters are close to each other on the keyboard.[46]

Some of QAnon's other allegations include his February 16, 2018 false claim that U.S. Representative and former Democratic National Committee chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz hired El Salvadorian gang MS-13 to murder DNC staffer Seth Rich,[39][47] and his March 1, 2018 apparent suggestion that German Chancellor Angela Merkel is the granddaughter of Adolf Hitler.[48] A July 7, 2018 article published in The Daily Beast also noted that QAnon falsely claimed that "each mass shooting is a false-flag attack organized by the cabal".[49] Other beliefs held by QAnon adherents include that Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, George Soros, and others are planning a coup while simultaneously involved as members of an international child sex trafficking ring. According to this idea, the Mueller investigation is actually a countercoup led by Donald Trump, who pretended to collude with Russia in order to hire Robert Mueller to secretly investigate the Democrats.[22] Another recurring theme is that certain Hollywood stars are pedophiles, and that the Rothschild family are the leaders of a satanic cult.[15] By interpreting the information fed to them by Q, QAnon adherents come to these conclusions.[22]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon

Specifically, which left wing conspiracy theory are you saying is as improbable or illogical? Feel free to link to the Wikipedia page on it.

I know you've been asked for this already, so you've had plenty of time to explain.

[empedocles]

57. On CNN 3:05p Sunday, 2 things I haven't heard before. Bedsheets in this facility sector are

'tear-away' bedsheets. [Can't hang from them].

Current Bureau of Prisons Director is Acting Director. - ooh.

[JHB]

63. Failed mind-reading back in schiool. LW?

Guessing "Left wing". Look there's plenty of reason for Epstein to have offed himself, and it's fine to frown on people who have jumped straight to CT, but get real. There are many influential, powerful and rich people who stand to be exposed by a close examination of Epstein.

That situation turned him into almost a cartoon character of "his life ain't worth a plug nickel."

Lean toward Occam's Razor, but don't assume anything at this point.

[Blue_Tires]

75. I laugh at them too?

[krawhitham]

76. Most to not believe, but are willing to pretend & spread the CTs if they think it will hurt GOP

[Caliman73]

77. Any conspiracy theory will have problems.

Typically because they are elaborate and require the secrecy of sometimes large numbers of people to function. There is typically a major difference between left wing conspiracy theories and right wing theories that make left wing ideas slightly more salient.

Right wing theories typically revolve around "elites doing something nefarious" but they focus mainly on Democratic elites like the Clintons, and "government" as controlled by Democratic forces even when they are not in control of any meaningful seats of power. An example, Alex Jones will discuss conspiracies about weather control or government putting chemicals in our water, but to whom does he attribute these plots? Rarely if ever to Republicans. You don't hear him saying that, "Trump is doing...." Right wingers attribute conspiracies to a cabal of wealthy "globalists" (typically shorthand for Jewish) who want to rule the world.

Left wing conspiracies can be out there as well however, they appear to be more focused on abuses of power by government regardless of who is in power and based on the idea that "power protects power". It was left wing movements that were skeptical about "the Gulf of Tonkin Incident" which propelled the US into Vietnam in earnest. A conspiracy and cover up, that was borne out in facts. The left complained about a coordinated effort to disrupt and destroy left wing activism in the 60's and 70's. We have indication that COINTELPRO sought to disrupt groups like the Black Panthers and other left wing "agitators".

Anti-vax conspiracies would be the closer analog to right wing conspiracy theories that are what is derisively termed...woo. The theories however, tend still to be based on suspicion that pharmaceutical companies attempt to corrupt governmental oversight to increase profits at the expense of the health of people, which has some validity to it when you think of how some manufacturers have pushed to get medications that were not ready for market through the FDA process, think about the recent controversy surrounding opiates and Purdue Pharmaceutical. I am not saying the anti-vaxers are correct in their ideas about vaccinations, but just that where right wing conspiracies are typically based on racism and prejudice, left wing conspiracies are typically based on suspicion of power and profit.