Maryland family asked to leave Outback Steakhouse because son with special needs was too loud

[Floyd R. Turbo]

A Maryland woman was given restaurant credit after she and her family were asked to leave an Outback Steakhouse restaurant by a manager who said her son with special needs was the subject of a noise complaint.

In a post on social media detailing the incident, Amanda Braun said she's not likely to use the credit. 

Braun and her family were told they needed to "finish (their) meals and leave" about five minutes after their food arrived at the table, she said in a Facebook post. 

Braun's 4-year-old son, Killian, was born with a neurological disorder called childhood apraxia of speech. According to the American Speech-Language-Hearing Association, a child with apraxia of speech knows what he or she wants to say, but signals from the brain controlling muscles for speech aren't relayed correctly. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/08/11/outback-steakhouse-noise-complaint-targets-boy-special-needs/1983864001/

[marble falls]

1. A four year old too loud? More likely a geezer with no tolerance for anyone.

[former9thward]

19. What if they bring the child to a movie?

Is everyone supposed to tolerate that also?

[marble falls]

21. Please. Have you been to a movie recently?

[former9thward]

25. Yes, what kind of answer is that?

[LanternWaste]

23. What if they use an scenario irrelevant to the OP illustrate a petulant point?

Is everyone just supposed to pretend it's not irrational?

[Act_of_Reparation]

40. What if they bring the child to Mars on a pogo stick?

A similarly irrelevant question. But a lot funnier, if you ask me.

[sdfernando]

2. I haven't been to an Outback in years..

Their food is mediocre at best. Just another reason not to go.

[USALiberal]

4. Lol, ok

[MineralMan]

3. That's a real dilemma, isn't it?

Not having been there, I can't know how disruptive the situation was. The restaurant has to accommodate people with disabilities, but also has to deal with disturbances that affect other customers. In a supermarket, for example, if there is a screaming child, I simply shop elsewhere in the store for a while. And a shrieking two-year-old can produce ear damaging decibel levels, for sure. But in a restaurant, it's not possible to choose another aisle to shop in until the child has moved on.

Parents know how loud their children are. They experience it all the time in a case like this one. Again, it is a balancing act. Do they risk seriously disturbing others at a restaurant or forgo dining out with their child? I don't know the answer, because I don't know the situation. I've been in restaurants when a child throws a screaming fit and mom or dad is forced to pick up the child and take it outside to avoid an intolerable disturbance to other customers. It's expected that parents will do that, actually.

So, it's Hobson's Choice, I think, in this circumstance. I just don't know, because I wasn't there.

[Nay]

9. You and I feel pretty much the same on this issue. We're both geezers, and politeness

dictates that we remove misbehaving children (no matter why they are misbehaving) from social situations where others cannot remove themselves. IOW, if you are causing the disruption, you should pack up your food and leave, making apologies to the restaurant. I did that 40 years ago when our baby started screaming at the top of his lungs in a restaurant. The restaurant didn't have to ask us to leave -- we left because it was the right thing to do.

[MineralMan]

10. Well, I am of two minds on stuff like this.

On one hand, I understand parent wanting to take their child with them for a restaurant meal. On the other, I've been a restaurant patron when someone's child threw a screaming fit. The situation with a 4-year-old child with a health problem is different, but has the same impact on others nearby. If it continues, their meals are ruined.

The restaurant owner, on the other hand, has a different dilemma. Odds are that some of the other tables have regular customers eating in the restaurant. Those regulars are the owner's bread and butter. The family with the loud child are almost certainly not regular customers. So, what does the restaurant owner do? It's a problem for him or her.

The parents of the child with a disorder that leads to loud, disruptive behavior know the situation well. They took a chance by bringing the child with them for a meal at the restaurant. The child is frustrated or can't control the behavior at age 4. If I were the parent, I'd say, "Well, this isn't working out this evening." Then, I'd quietly leave the restaurant with the child with one of the parents staying in the restaurant to explain and pay whatever is owed. That's what I'd do. Then, maybe a year or two later, I'd try again, when the child is a little older and has more experience in such situations.

It's an experiment, raising a child with some sort of health problem that can result in disruptive behavior. Sometimes the experiment works out OK. Sometimes it doesn't. All of it changes over time.

Parents with a child have to shop in the supermarket, so a shrieking toddler is not unheard of in that situation. The parent needn't take the child out of the store, because other shoppers can move away from the disturbance, which probably won't last all that long. In a restaurant, however, or a theater, or any situation where people can't escape from the disturbance, the onus is on the parents to remove the child, either temporarily or altogether. That's the equation.

It's not really a disability issue. Children under the age of 5 can raise a ruckus, even if they don't have any disability. The rules are the same, though. If the child's behavior is denying others who cannot escape a peaceful experience, then the parents need to remove the child if the child can't be calmed down. That's only fair.

Now, someone is sure to tell me I'm an old curmudgeon, which I am. But there it is. The rules of common courtesy demand that parents not inflict their children's tantrums or lack of the ability to control their outburst on others. It's simple.

[Nay]

16. Again, I agree with everything you say here, too. I certainly have sympathy for the parents,

but we both know what they need to do -- leave and try again when the child is more mature. As you say, people in restaurants and theatres are captive audiences who cannot move away from the disruption, so the disruption needs to be dealt with by the parents. And I only have total sympathy for the family with the screaming kid in the grocery; that's unpleasant to those around the child, but it doesn't ruin an expensive evening out.

[lpbk2713]

5. Look for some asshole in a MAGA cap.

He was the one who whined to the manager.

[Pendrench]

7. Hi lpbk2713 - Although I was not there, I can tell you that I live near this

particular Outback (have been there many times myself), and it would not surprise me in least bit if that was the case.

This particular area of Maryland tends to be more conservative.

Tim

[tavernier]

17. Same people who stole all the sugar packets from the table

when they left.

[cwydro]

22. Oh please, anyone might have complained.

How would they know if the child has special needs?

People have a right to eat the meal they have paid for in peace.

[BannonsLiver]

49. What an interesting contrast

You’re perfectly fine with a handicapped child and their family being kicked out of a restaurant but enraged over a meme mocking trump anonymous supporters in rascals. Fascinating.

[cwydro]

50. Even more fascinating is that you seem to be following me around.

[BannonsLiver]

53. LOL don't flatter yourself

Bad hot takes tend to stand out.

[cwydro]

54. I wouldn't be in the least flattered.

Bless your heart.

[Polybius]

29. MAGA's are the only ones who don't like noise while eating?

Who knew...

[lunamagica]

6. Several years ago, my amily took me to celebrate my birthday in this restaurant

We didn't go there often so it was a real treat. It was during some difficult times, ao we were really looking for a break. It was a nice place and it was early, so it was just us and another family. They had a girl, about six-years old who screamed at the top o her lungs during the entire meal. A ma who I assumed was her father took her out a couple of times for about five minutes, where she'd immediately started all over again. She was obviously special needs. We said nothing and endured the yelling during our entire stay. It turned what was supposed to be a relaxing, fun family time to something really stressful and it ruined our day.

[radius777]

38. Agree with your sentiment.

Most people are middle class and make sacrifices to have a night out, have their own issues, want to celebrate their own occasions, etc. When other customers are disruptive (no matter how 'justifiable' that disruption may be) it completely destroys the atmosphere, making the outing worthless.

I get the issue of having more understanding about kids, disabled, elderly, etc. But in many such cases I've seen it's because the individual didn't want to be there, that the adult/caretaker wasn't attending to them, etc.

Some restaurants have separate 'family' sections for noisy situations, seems to work well. There are also louder restaurants where noise from any one person will just blend in. Background music helps to even out the noise as well.

[lunamagica]

44. The child defenetly didn't want to be there. Her screams weren't of joy or involuntary. She was

obviously upset and crying, wanting to leave. Her dad took her out a couple of times. The rest of her table just ignored her. We were the only other family present and we tried to ignore her too, but we were bauble to even have a simple conversation. They should have never brought her to a quiet, sit-down restaurant -which she hated.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

8. Imagine complaining about a special needs kid at Outback.

[MineralMan]

11. Strangers don't know that a random kid has a special needs issue.

They just know that their dinner is being disrupted. How would they know?

[Captain Stern]

12. I don't really have a problem with this.

I think the key phrase here is '4-year-old'.

If your child isn't ready, or able, (regardless of the reason) to behave themselves at a sit-down restaurant...please don't take them there. It just makes the experience suck for you, your child, and everyone else.

There are plenty of places you can take kids that can't be quiet. McDonalds, Chucke E. Cheese's, Chik fil a, etc.

[Ms. Toad]

14. Would you apply the same conditions to an adult with CP?

I have a friend who is unable to speak without using a louder than average voice, with spasmodic "unpleasant" sounds.

Is that misbehaving? (Nothing in the article about eh child suggested a behavior issue). Would my friend going out to eat with his wife make the experience "just about him?" Would you suggest he and his wife should not be able to enjoy a romantic night out at a fancy (or any other kind of) restaurant because of his disability?

Age has nothing to do with a disability that makes ones speach displeasing to others - and being displeasing to others is not a valid reason to exclude the person with a disability from sit-down restaurants.

[Captain Stern]

15. Probably not

What your friend does doesn't really sound that disruptive.

However if your friend had a disability that caused him to randomly scream at the top of his lungs, then I would say a nice quiet restaurant isn't where he should be eating.

There's no way to tell from the article exactly how loud the child was being. However, we can tell from the article that the child was being loud enough to generate a complaint, and that the manager felt the complaint was at least justified enough for him to act on it.

[Ms. Toad]

27. Frankly, I'm pretty appalled at the two responses I've seen.

A disability that comes to mind that can cause one to scream at the top of their lungs is Tourette's syndrome. From my perspective it is immoral to suggest that these individuals tuck themselves away to avoid offending others - or be excluded from public accommodations, and - it is illegal to actually exclude them - whether they are 4 or (as my friend is) 40.

[Captain Stern]

39. There are places that screaming isn't appropriate, regardless of the reason.

Screaming at the top of one's lungs is a behavior, even if it's a behavior beyond the person's control.

There are many places where this behavior wouldn't be a problem, but there are also places (quiet restaurants, libraries, movie theaters) where this behavior would ruin other people's experience....not just offend them.

[MicaelS]

24. Yes I would.

There are restaurants with outdoor seating.

There are restaurants with private rooms.

Other than that there are dozens of other people who have payed money for a romantic evening of their own, and they should not be subject to adults or children who cannot control their vocal outbursts.

And you are completely wrong about your last statement. That is EXACTLY what people are paying for when they go to a nice sit-down restaurant. People who are displeasing to others should be removed.

Restaurants operate on thin margins. You want to lose dozens of customers who might not return, or one family?

[Ms. Toad]

28. Wow. I was intending the question as a reality check

I hope you merely forgot the sarcasm tags.

I never dreamed there would be a member of DU who would actually say out loud that they believed an individual with CP should be excluded because they made others uncomfortable.

You do know that kind of discrimination is not only (at least from my perspective) morally reprehensible, but also illegal, right?

By your reasoning, a restaurant in a racist area should be able exclude blacks (equally illegal) to avoid losing dozens of customers who might not return. It is really no different. Both are illegal (one under the Civil Rights Act and one under the Americans with Disabilities Act). Both practices (by entities discriminating) operate on the principle that as a private entity the restaurant should be entitled to exclude people who are different to make their customers more comfortable.

[Bettie]

42. Keep in mind that there are many people

around here who simply think that children should never be anywhere but at home, unless they are able to be silent little shadows who never speak or move.

When I hear the little one crying in the store, I think about when my kids were little and feel sympathy for the parent, knowing that sometimes you need to do your shopping or get that meal, or whatever.

I also find that I've had more evenings/outings impacted by drunken adults or people who simply chose to be jerks for whatever reason than kids, but it 'ruining the night' is a personal choice.

[Polybius]

30. What if it was the movies or the library?

At some point, you have to say "shh!" and not let them keep going.

[Ms. Toad]

31. Wow - now three responses that favor shuffling people with disabilities off into the closet

when they make life less pleasant for people who are temporarily abled. So you really believe that people with disabilities that make vocalizations uncontrollable should be prohibited from enjoying the public accommodations the rest of us take for granted?

Did I accidentally wander into the wrong forum?

[Polybius]

48. No, this is the right forum

I'm very respectful for those with with disabilities or autism. I think they deserve exactly the same rights as anyone else.

With that being said, they also have to follow the same rules as everyone else. If I was talking at the top of my lungs in a movie theater or library, I'd be told to hush or leave, and rightfully so.

[Ms. Toad]

55. Assuming that you are talking at the top of your lungs when you had a choice

to do otherwise, yes. It doesn't matter if you have a disability or not, if it is not the disability that is causing the troublesome behavior.

On the other hand, if you have a disability that causes you to talk at the top of your lungs (because you are unable to control your volume), or to be unable to refrain from speaking (Tourette's syndrome), you are - from a legal perspective - dead wrong.

[Leith]

13. I just went to YouTube to get an example or two of Childhood Apraxia of Speech

I had never heard of it and it seemed like a good time to learn something new.

Apraxia means that the brain cannot control the organs of speech (tongue, lips, for example) as well as they should be able to. They may chew food, but most of it stays on the tongue instead of between teeth because they are not able to maneuver the stuff where it needs to go.

There are a few examples of children in therapy sessions which were most likely chosen to illustrate the topic, rather than how frustrated a child can get when they are unable to form the sounds and words of what they are trying to say. The only example of a frustrated child was one who was at home trying to talk to his mother (btw, the mother was shown anointing the kid with some sort of oil on the back of his neck to help him improve, so she may not be a very competent or effective therapist).

In the clinical descriptions of the symptoms, "loud and disruptive" was not mentioned. The main things to look out for are the inability to combine sounds. The child may be able to say "moo" while not able to say "me." for example. He or she may mix up "t" and "k," likewise "d" and "g."

This may have been a case of a child being disruptive because he wasn't able to express himself...

Or it could be that he was not speaking well or clearly, somebody overheard and got their knickers in a knot over a kid with a disability.

Like many other posters have said, we weren't there. But the whole situation sounds like it could have been handled better.

[IluvPitties]

18. I am on the younger side of DU

and certainly would be disturbed by a child screaming constantly if I am trying to have a quiet meal. I have autism in my family and I can understand how this family feels, but... it is a two-sided issue.

[OnDoutside]

20. While I do have a certain amount of sympathy for the parents, I think it's unfair on the other

restaurant goers too.

If you don't have a lot of money and the Outback was your one meal out in the week, you'd be pretty pissed off too. Or a MAGA I guess.

When our son was having a tantrum, one of us would immediately take him outside until he calmed down, while myself or my wife had our meal in peace, and then we'd swop. We were always considerate of other diners, and wanting to have our own meal in peace.

In this family's situation, could they not work with the restaurant to find a quieter time to dine ?

In some Supermarkets here (I presume the US too ?), they have designated Tuesday from 7pm where they reduced lighting/brightness for autistic shopping.

[KT2000]

26. Courtesy

is becoming a thing of the past. All that means is consideration of others.
The article does not describe what the actual disturbance was so it is hard to conclude much. Was it yelling, shrieking, or constant loud speaking? I doesn't say.

Some people are sensitive to sound and people who wear hearing aids can have pain from louds sounds. I recall a girl about 12 once yelled as loud as she could while next to my sister (we had just entered a store) and my sister grabbed her head in pain. Her father A 12 year old yelling inside of a store in inappropriate but she never learned that.

I was having a late lunch with a friend in a restaurant. There was only one other table occupied by a couple. The woman put her phone on speaker and talked very loudly while she was eating her food. It was difficult for my friend and I to hear each other. My friend asked the waitress to ask the woman to be more quiet and she did.

Consideration of others answers most of these problems. There is an expectation of a restaurant being a place to peacefully eat a meal, especially since one is paying for the privilege.

[MarcA]

32. This is True. We have rights to everything but peace and safety.

Consideration of Others is not considered when dealing with "my rights".
The oligarchs who increasingly own and control more of everything really don't care.

[Ms. Toad]

33. Some disabilities make it impossible for people to avoid "disturbances."

They have just as much right to eat a meal in a restaurant as those without disabilities. The fact that the person with a disabilithy is a child does not alter that reality. I have been unable to find any description that suggests this "disturbance" was anything other than the expression of the child's disability.

The examples you recited were not disability related - and, as to that, you are correct. People should be courteous to each other - including other patrons in restaurants where people with disabilities choose to eat.

[KT2000]

34. Appropriate is another consideration

Sensitivity to sound and wearing a hearing aid for hearing loss is actually a disability.
I looked up child apraxia and watched a video. The children who were working with a speech pathologist did not have loud voices at all. In fact the children I saw spoke quietly. There is something more to this story.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Disabilities that disrupt and disturb others in a restaurant to me is not OK. Maybe when the child is older he will be able to behave better. Four is pretty young.

[Ms. Toad]

35. Behavior and disabilities are different.

This, as far as I am concerned, is not a progressive opinion:

Disabilities that disrupt and disturb others in a restaurant to me is not OK

Blacks disrupt and disturb people in restaurants who would prefer not to see black people.
Women disrupt and disturb some in men's only clubs.
Pregnant women, when I was a child, disrupted and disturbed others in polite society.
People with speech and muscular disabilities disrupt and disturb others in many situations when they are unabe to control the volume of their voices.

None of those are opinions belong in any community that I recognize as progressive.

As to this particular child, there is no indication in any of the reports I have read that the concern was misbehavior - as opposed to a disability. Outback steak house is not a place where children (generally) are unwelcome. Excluding a child with a disability - because of the disability - is a violation of the law (and not an opinion I expected to see on DU).disa

As far as disabilities, and what you can detrermine from a videotape - when you have seen a videotape of one child with child apraxia you have seen exactly one child with apraxia. When you have seen a handful, you have seen a handful. I actually have two friends with CP, and the expression of their CP has similarities - and differences. Both are challenging to understand, but one is better able to control the volume of his vocalizations than the other. I suspect the same is true of child apraxia - there are common characteristics among all children with apraxia - and differences. I am not familiar enough with this particular disability to opine, generally, as to its (presumably) many manifestations. But - as I said - none of the reports I have seen suggest that there was misbehavior involved.

[KT2000]

36. Oh please -

enough already. The comparisons you suggest are not the same. Each to their own.

[Ms. Toad]

37. Really?

You are not aware of the legal arguments set out to justify private enterprises keeping blacks, women, and people with disabilities out of their estabilshments? Pregnant women was more custom than law, as far as I know, but when I was growing up pregnant women were mostly kept out of sight.

[Act_of_Reparation]

41. "I looked up child apraxia and watched a video"

Clearly you're an expert, now.

[KT2000]

45. Yes

[edhopper]

43. I understand both sides of this issue

but my heart goes out to this family. This is so much to deal with, and they were trying to have a good evening out. It is vary sad and i can't imaging how much strength they need.

[bronxiteforever]

51. +1 Me as well.

[Hortensis]

46. Outback is a family restaurant. This one's management should

have honored that.

Not long ago at another family chain, a grown man who clearly had some sort of disorder that affected him mentally and physically was frequently bursting out with a lot of loud, distorted gibberish. It was distracting, but it never occurred to us to complain, to question the right of his companions to take him out to dinner, OR his own right to be in public. And if anyone else did, that management handled it very differently.

An establishment offering quiet dining would have been different. But that's not Outback.

[demmiblue]

47. ...

[redstatebluegirl]

52. We have some really mean people in our country.

We all need to speak up when we see this type of thing.

[obamanut2012]

56. Most of this thread agree with those people

I was appalled the day this OP was posted and the responses to it, and still am. I have a cousin with CP who is "noisy" and drools badly, and his parents have been told for 50 years he shouldn't be allowed to eat in public because he is disgusting to watch and listen to.