Meanwhile HK protestors are singing the Star Spangled Banner

[PunkinPi]

because the US used to be a beacon of hope and democracy, even if the ideal wasn't entirely fulfilled.

Link to tweet

Hong Kong protesters are using the U.S. flag as a sign of freedom.

Let’s not let them down.

(reposting by request from this OP) --> https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212375782

[Historic NY]

1. They do it pretty good.....

hope they aren't crushed.

[Duppers]

2. "Let's not let them down."

Thank you, Miss Pi, for posting this. I still have a lump in my throat and wets cheeks.





Hong Kong needs our support to remain as they are, free of any more repression. I hope folks understand why they're protesting.


Btw, my hubby and sister tells me HK is an amazing place.

[PunkinPi]

9. My mom hosted a W&M law student from mainland China who ended up...

teaching at the University of Hong Kong and she corresponded with us regurlarly when she first got there. She would agree with your hubby's and sister's assessment. It was like culture shock for her (the difference between mainland and Hong Kong). I've been thinking about her lately and I'm hoping she is okay.

[Duppers]

15. My hubby, once adjunct faculty

At W&M yrs ago directed a grad student from Hong Kong but we've lost touch with him.

When hubs was at Cambridge U. he did research and published with a fellow from Shanghai. He's visited mainland China twice, once with my sister tagging along (I was too sick & she took my tickets). They also visited HK. Yes, it was an extreme contrast. But Shanghai is now an extraordinary city physically - combine the land size of LA with the density of NYC and the lights of Vegas and you have Shanghai! It was awesome but didn't have quite the ambience of HK, hubs said.
In 2010 we went together, along with our son, but we didn't go to HK. Prof. Q visited us here once about here about 22yrs ago and we stay regularly in touch.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

3. OK, who is going to tell them?

OK, who is going to tell them?

Link to tweet

[calimary]

29. Yeah, no kidding.

Guess they haven’t been keeping up with news from the US in the past few years.

[smirkymonkey]

31. +1000

[jberryhill]

4. Either protesters or...

...plants by the PRC to claim that the protests are the result of US agitation.

Why would Hong Kong protesters be waving the US flag and singing the US national anthem? That certainly wouldn't attract any particular support for their cause among fellow citizens of Hong Kong.

It seems a pretty stupid thing to do for actual protesters there.

But if you are the Chinese government and want to claim that the protests are a result of foreign influence, these guys are GREAT!

[PunkinPi]

12. Well, maybe I'm naive to think they are just protestors who happen to think...

the US represents democracy to the world (even if that ideal has not been reached) and that's what it represents to them. YMMV

[jberryhill]

13. So, to be clear

It makes sense to you that protesters in Hong Kong would seek to rally their countrymen by singing in a foreign language and waving the flag of a country that isn't particularly trusted by them.

It's kind of amazing that these protesters would do the very thing that the Chinese government would want the protesters to do, to reinforce the propaganda line that the protests are inspired by foreign powers seeking to destabilize China.

[LanternWaste]

16. So... sometimes unsupported speculation of a conspiracy is valid?

Or simply another instance of holding others to a higher standard than we may hold ourselves to?

To be clear, indeed.




(space provided free of charge below for distinction lacking relevant difference)

[PunkinPi]

22. I see it less as "rallying their countrymen" and more as speaking to the desire to be more...

independently democratic (like the US) by protesting Chinese oppression.

HK is a much different place than mainland China in that it is influenced more by western ideology (democracy, etc.) since it was a British colony and the Brits still have a lot of influence there. So it isn't a giant leap to think that since the US (world's oldest democracy) represents (or is supposed to) democracy, openness and independence, that HKers would use the US as a symbol of what they want to be. Again, YMMV.

[delisen]

30. Tiananmen Sq. had Statue of Liberty

Hungary 1956, Tiananmen Square 1989, Hong Kong 2019, Russia 2019--so many people want to be free

[jberryhill]

34. The Statue of Liberty is quite different from the US flag

There are several of them in France, incidentally.


Paris:



Colmar:



The Statute of Liberty represents a concept - Liberty. That is not at all comparable to a symbol which represents a particular nation.

[JHB]

25. I've seen a mainland political cartoon presenting the HK protests as US-manipulated...

...while compiling last Friday's TOON post. Didn't use it.

By cartoonist Luojie in China Daily, put up on Cagle Cartoons (a commercial distribution site) on August 8:

[jberryhill]

26. And then "protesters" - remarkably isolated from any other crowd....

...then show up waving US flags and singing the national anthem.

I can assure you THAT video will indeed make it on the news in China.

[Sapient Donkey]

33. That was my first thought. I mean, I guess it's not unheard of to see that behavior

I've seen people at protests here wave the Soviet Flag, or the Chinese flag, and even the North Korean flag. That always annoys me if they are protesting for a cause that I support. It's like, come on, you're not helping.

This is great PR for the PRC, though.

[UTUSN]

5. And predictably, SHITLER betrays freedom fighters and the U.S. flag.

[Frustratedlady]

6. I'm beginning to get the feeling that this whole thing is brought on by the Russians.

Granted, China has its own problems with their people, but on the other hand, Russia loves to divide and conquer, aka sic one group against the other and eventually come in to collect the spoils. It could be races vs. races or governments vs. their people, etc. I think they like to set fires and sit back and watch. Haven't we been a good example? Look what's happening to us.

[jimlup]

10. I don't think this case is Russia

I think this is the people recognizing freedom against authoritarianism and not backing down. Power to the people!

[Frustratedlady]

11. I hope you are right.

[Duppers]

17. jimlup is right. China has their own problems

Last edited Tue Aug 13, 2019, 03:30 PM - Edit history (1)

With Russia.

[jimlup]

7. The Administration has already let them down

We need to insist that our congress does not.

[soryang]

8. Aside from indirect NED funding

The US will do nothing to help these people.

[roamer65]

14. HK is a SAR of the PRC.

Shades of 1989.

We will soon see the brutality of Sino-Russian alliance in action.

[Silver Gaia]

18. This made me cry. Dammit.

[Bayard]

19. Its amazing that we still stand for freedom and democracy

After the bad will tRump has spread around the world.

[yaesu]

20. They should be singing Oh Canada as the US is fascist like China. nt

[BadgerMom]

21. My heart is breaking.

God, how I wish HRC were in the White House right now. She would be doing all she could for protesters in Hong Kong and Russia.

[ancianita]

23. Now THAT chokes me up. Thank you, Hong Kong. We can use the validation right now.

[Cetacea]

24. I hope I'm wrong but it appeared that they stomped someone to death

The reporter never said that, but the crowd finally back off and the body was motionless.

[Zoonart]

27. While I appreciate the heart of these protesters...

their singing the national anthem and waving American flags is not necessarily a good thing.
China is blaming these "riots" on the UNited States and they are saying that the US is funding and producing the protests.

If China goes in heavy against these protesters, they will blame the US.

[TomVilmer]

28. Remember, HK did not get "democratic" until right before the British left...

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1353799/last-governor-chris-patten-speaks-regrets-over-hong-kong-democracy

[tymorial]

32. We should absolutely support HK but the UK needs to take the lead

They won't given their current problems but they have an obligation. China is violating the terms of their treaty. Britian is duty bound to push back and support the HK people who are being denied their rights under the British-Sino declaration of 1984. China promised 50 years of "one nation, two systems" it hasn't even been 25 years.

This change by China isn't surprising. China has a public face which intends to present itself very much the republic it claims to be while having an internal system which is most certainly not. They made efforts in the 80s under Xioping to institute term limits for the presidency and also institute expectations for government and military leaders to follow suit. Though party and military leaders were not legally held to limits, they were expected to follow suit and also adhere to the mandatory retirement age of 68.

The whole purpose of these laws were actually twofold. The real intent was to prevent the Maoist cult of personality and mitigate the turmoil of previous decades. It also intended to present China as the republic it claimed to be.

In reality these laws were largely symbolic and often ignored. The only president to actually adhere to the two term rule was Jinping's predecessor Jintao. The laws and rules were set under Deng Xioping but he maintained power until 1997 even as he officially retired in 1992. Other leaders either managed to hold onto their positions or had to be forcibly removed and ousted. Still the public face of China was one that they adhered to the precepts of a republic.

They signed the Sino-British Declaration treaty in 1984 amidst these changes. When 1997 came and the transition ceremony took place the events of Tiananmen Square were not far back in people's minds. The 50 year guarantee of one country, two systems was still very much expected and China affirmed that agreement.

What makes the situation today different is that Jinping has upended the changes of the 80s. The republic pretext is gone. The democracy pretext is gone. The state media has stated both are irrelevant (as directed). He made himself president for life. This act did not go without criticism. Protestors within China and exiled political dissidents have called this change a return to imperial china with Jinping making himself emperor. Jinping and the government cite overwhelmingly support by the people and yet the state sponsored media goes to great lengths to prevent imperialism, imperial, emperor from ever being heard and the internet is heavily monitored to prevent these labels from being discussed.

So yes. Its not surprising that Jinping and the Chinese Government seeks to ignore their own treaty. Whether they ever intended to honor the 50 year agreement.... unsure. Xioping was revered and celebrated for his changes and the "modernization of China"

So yes, the US does need to support Hong Kong. We claim to be the leaders of the free world (I hate the term because I dont believe it is always applicable.. especially under our own president with monarchical delusions) so we must support HK. Britain however must lead the way. It is their treaty. The protestors demand what was promised by both parties. The UK is duty bound to advocate.

[Maru Kitteh]

35. Okay so this actually made me cry.