Pelosi Statement on Israel's Decision to Block Members of Congress from Entering the Country

[ehrnst]

“As one who loves Israel, I am deeply saddened by the news that Israel has decided to prevent Members of Congress from entering the country.

“Last month, Israeli Ambassador Dermer stated that, ‘Out of respect for the U.S. Congress and the great alliance between Israel and America, we would not deny entry to any Member of Congress into Israel.’ This is a sad reversal and is deeply disappointing. I pray that the Government of Israel will reverse that denial.

“Israel’s denial of entry to Congresswomen Tlaib and Omar is a sign of weakness, and beneath the dignity of the great State of Israel. The President’s statements about the Congresswomen are a sign of ignorance and disrespect, and beneath the dignity of the Office of the President.”

https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/81519/

[dalton99a]

1. The House should exercise its power of the purse.

[triron]

3. You bet!

[OnDoutside]

4. Probably a step too far just yet, but it should be at least on the table. If fellow Democrats let

this slide, what's next ?

[ehrnst]

7. Speaker Pelosi isn't "letting this slide." Did you read the OP?

[mr_lebowski]

12. Depends on one's definition of 'slide' ... if synonymous with 'going without comment'

then yes, she did NOT 'let it slide'.

If one's definition of the term includes tangible ACTION, beyond words ... then I think we're going to find that by THAT definition ... it WILL be 'let slide'.

[lunatica]

14. If experience serves then this will be so old news that it will

be forgotten by tomorrow. It won’t produce much hyperventilation so will sink rapidly into oblivion. Like a lot of important stuff.

[ehrnst]

16. So if she says nothing, she's "doing nothing." If she says something

then it's just "words."

So, what exactly would "tangible ACTION" would be satisfactory to you on Speaker Pelosi's part?

[mr_lebowski]

24. All I said was people's definition of the word 'slide' ... varies. It's ambiguous.

And no real action will be taken beyond words.

That's it.

[ehrnst]

87. Define what "real action" are you referring to that is possible on the part of Congress?

What actions would be on such a "list?"

[mr_lebowski]

95. I really don't have to. I'm not arguing 'there are actions', am I now? (nt)

[jayfish]

25. For Starters...

Recall The Congressional Delegation. ...immediately!

[ehrnst]

42. Whose call is that?(nt)

[jayfish]

46. Doesn't Matter As It Appears They...

we're only there until 8/11.

[ehrnst]

62. I'm sure you'll find another reason to be disappointed in Speaker Pelosi.

[mr_lebowski]

66. Didn't say I was disappointed or that there were practical options that I'm aware of, for my part

I just said people's definitions of 'letting something slide' ... are different.

I think that's fair to say.

[ehrnst]

84. I didn't say you were. I was responding to someone else.

Why are you responding as though you are Jayfish?

[mr_lebowski]

96. I said 'for my part' ... & you were implying similar stuff to me upthread ...

Don't start with some paranoid multiple account stuff, I promise you I'm always me.

This is all on a subthread I started

[ehrnst]

98. So, are you acknowledging that I wasn't referring to you in the post?

Or not?

No need to get defensive - take a few deep breaths...

[StarfishSaver]

73. You noticed that, too?

[lapucelle]

65. "To let (something) slide"

let (something) slide (idiom)
informal
: to do nothing about (something, such as another person's mistake or bad behavior)
: to ignore (something)

Ted Lieu is on CNN as we speak. He just publicly called on our ambassador to Israel to resign in protest over Netanyahu's ban.

[mr_lebowski]

68. There you go ... both definitions that I spoke of ... (nt)

[lapucelle]

70. Neither of which accurately reflects today's reaction.

Hasty alarm about "letting something slide" is clearly unfounded.

[mr_lebowski]

72. I would say to the people who assert she 'let it slide' if she does nothing more than what she

just said ... to come up with a reasonable list of actions she might take that would be satisfactory.

I think that list is going to be pretty small, and only arguably reasonable.

Fair enough?

[ehrnst]

85. Your posts indicate doubt that she will take actions available to her concerning Israel

Your post, yes?

If one's definition of the term includes tangible ACTION, beyond words ... then I think we're going to find that by THAT definition ... it WILL be 'let slide'.

[mr_lebowski]

97. I'm suggesting some people MAY BELIEVE that there are ...

And therefore by their definition, she's letting it slide.

I don't know what those options may or may not be, personally.

That said, I do doubt kinda she does anything much more to just say ... what she said. For better or worse, and whether there are options or not.

You will pretty much never find a post of me on here bashing Nancy, btw.

[ehrnst]

83. So, what ACTIONS does Congress have to address Israel's actions on this?

And it looks like they have agreed to allow Tlaib to visit on humanitarian grounds.

[brutus smith]

33. Yes. Thoughts and prayers

[ehrnst]

60. Not really.

Perhaps you'd grace us with what would be ever be acceptable to you from Madame Speaker

[brutus smith]

71. Follow the Constitution

[ehrnst]

81. I'll bite: What in the Constitution addresses Tlaib and Omar's visit to Israel?

Last edited Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:37 AM - Edit history (2)

You seem to think that there is action that Madame Speaker could take but refuses to concerning Israel's actions, hence your headbang emoji.

Do share.

But I'll save you some time and headbang emojis. Impeachment would not do anything to thwart Trump - and certainly won't prevent him from trying to deflect attention away from it by starting a war/Reichstag fire or escalating his hate rhetoric to gin up his supporters who might ramp up the hate crimes and "second amendment solutions" in response. But from what I've heard, it's the "constitutional duty" that would solve everything from climate change to the common cold.

'K?

[ehrnst]

101. Got nothing?

Thought so.

[slumcamper]

36. Exactly.

[ehrnst]

61. See - you found a different reason to be disappointed right away!

[OnDoutside]

63. Did I say Pelosi ? No, I didn't, so don't take my intentions out of context svp ! It was a general

"Democrats", and that by not letting it slide, there must be a consequence, or else they'll do it again or worse.

[ehrnst]

82. Ok, tell us what "power of the purse" do "Democrats" have to leverage against Israel?

Can you be specific?

If you're going to damn them for inaction, then tell us what actions - specifically - they can take.

What "purse" are you talking about? Funds that have been approved in legislation can't be lifted without more legislation.... that has to be passed by the Senate and signed by POTUS.

What magic wand do "fellow Democrats" have that will allow them to suspend the constitution?

[OnDoutside]

94. It was someone else who suggested the "power of the purse". I said

"Probably a step too far just yet, but it should be at least on the table. If fellow Democrats let
this slide, what's next ?"

Have you not heard of the "Public purse" ? https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/public_purse

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_of_the_purse

Calm down, ehrnst, there's no need to be so defensive.

You've mentioned two silly options : blocking already approved funds & suspending the constitution.

Nancy Pelosi could easily say two practical things

1) No more Democratic members of the House will travel to Israel, until all members are allowed to travel.

and/or

2) Future funding will also depend on all members of the House and Senate being allowed to travel to Israel.

She can say it either privately or publicly, but it needs to be said. It gives enough time too for it to be quietly overturned.

Tlaib did the right thing in refusing to go, when they were still blocking Omar.

[ehrnst]

100. Calm down now... there's no need to get so defensive.

Now, you agreed with that public purse quote.

Right here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12381837

If you don't believe me, scroll up. No need to get your blood pressure up.

1) No more Democratic members of the House will travel to Israel, until all members are allowed to travel.

and/or

2) Future funding will also depend on all members of the House and Senate being allowed to travel to Israel.

#1: Perhaps you haven't seen the discussions on DU where Madame Speaker was called "tyranical" for suggesting in a meeting that Democrats who have issues with each other should talk to the rep they have a problem with first before taking to twitter... But do you know that she has the authority to prohibit travel by congressmembers?

#2: Interesting that Trump times throwing gasoline on the Israel boycott discussion as impeachment talk ramps up.

I think that he's escalating, trying another tactic to split Democrats, after the last one failed:

The debate over the resolution threatens to reignite tensions between the caucus’ moderates and liberals that exploded into a messy public feud surrounding last month’s border spending package. Only after Trump attacked some of the caucus’ most high-profile freshmen — telling them in a Twitter tirade to “go back” from where they came — did the caucus put aside its quarrel to focus on rebuking the president.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/16/us/politics/trump-israel.htmlail

[OnDoutside]

102. Lol ! Imitation is an endearing quality. 😀

Yes, absolutely I agreed with the poster who suggested using the public purse, but to go after me for just agreeing with someone is a little odd. Nonetheless it's a good Idea to show the Israeli government that there's a price to be paid for picking sides, if they don't change their course of action.

No I haven't seen the other discussions, and haven't gone after Pelosi, who has been brilliant, particularly over holding the baying impeachment crowd at bay. My point still stands that if Democrats let this slide, Netanahu sp will do it again. Nip this in the bud fast, otherwise Trump definitely will take advantage of any dithering. And no harm to give Netanyahu a kick in the arse after 2016.

[ehrnst]

103. You're welcome.

[onenote]

50. The House doesn't have unilateral "power of the purse."

While certain types of legislation must originate in the House, it still takes both houses to pass legislation.

[maxsolomon]

52. Consider that defunding Israel is exactly what Trump is trying to bait Dems into doing.

So he can tar the entire party with the Anti-Semite brush.

[grantcart]

79. A more realistic and proportional response would be to bar

All House members from any official travel to Israel until they are willing to host all members of Congress

[OnDoutside]

2. The obvious next step is for any elected Democrat to pull out of Israel trips, until this is fixed.

[comradebillyboy]

10. Sounds like a good idea to me.

[NightWatcher]

5. Ok, no aid for Israel. Why should we pay them anything if that's how they want to act?

[Scarsdale]

26. Amen. They appear to spend

most of the US aid on weapons, don't they? Cut it off. Bibi should be in prison anyway. Wasn't he convicted of fraud or something similar? By the way, they have a national health service. Since WE support their war spending, they can afford to give their people health coverage. Stop the aid, spend it on getting this country decent health care.

[Sudsy]

91. I believe

Israel is also the only country receiving American money for its military that is allowed to use that money to buy weapons from its own domestic manufacturers.

[StarfishSaver]

74. That's not up to the House.

[dalton99a]

6. If Israel doesn't allow these Democratic women to visit, then no Democrat should visit Israel.

[rocktivity]

21. No congressperson of ANY kind should be allowed to visit Israel

As speaker, does Nancy have the power to do that?


rocktivity

[cstanleytech]

30. She and the Democrats do have some power actually to do that in that as the majority they can

refuse to pass any budget that does not include language that expressly forbids federal money to be spent to pay for anyone (other than for specific people such as the official ambassador) to travel to Israel.

[onenote]

78. Fortunately she and the Democrats are smart enough to realize what a bad idea that would be

Shutting down the government on October 1 over Israel's refusal to let Omar and Tlaib into the country would not exactly win the hearts and minds of the millions who would be impacted adversely the shutdown. It would be a wet dream for Trump.

[ehrnst]

86. They can shut the government down, you mean?

That will certainly send a message to Israel, won't it?

Besides, that travel budget is made by the State Department head, as it is for all departments. You really want Congress to shut down the government to try to change that???

Because the next time we have a Dem POTUS, and a GOP congress, they will use that to carry out their own policies in defiance of POTUS and the State Department.

It seems when some people get really angry and frustrated at Trump they suddenly become experts on what powers the Constitution grants Congress, and particularly Madame Speaker, have. As though the Blue Wave gave voters the right to expect miracles in minutes.

Like Tea Partiers who instantly became Constitutional scholars the minute Obama got sworn in.

[ehrnst]

99. Shouldn't you find out the answer to that before demanding that she do that?

[bdamomma]

8. Rather sickening

total intolerance of others WTF. And they are Congresswomen. Hmm..BeBe doing a favor for tRump perhaps??, dictators who stick together.

[Takket]

9. will the 41 Dems there with Hoyer be leaving?

[ehrnst]

19. Email Hoyer and let us know.(nt)

[Sugarcoated]

11. Very bit mistake by Isreal

Damaging their reputation in the eyes of millions of Americans, showing they are weak, petty, extreme. The koo koo right wingers won't always be in power....so short sighted.

[mr_lebowski]

18. Or perhaps they always will be in power, and you and I just don't know it yet (nt)

[Scarsdale]

29. Moscow Mitch would know.

He knew the fix was in the last time. That explains his Merrick Garland railroading. Leningrad Lindsey may know now, too. He has big plans for dropping Obama Care once the gop takes charge again.

[Sugarcoated]

38. From the polls the right could see it was going to be a squeaker in 2016

and they had confidence playing dirty could squeak it out for the child rapist. This time it's not going to be as close and the candidate isn't going to be Hillary so, I don't think the GOP is that powerful.

[KPN]

88. Hmmm .... didn't the polls in 2016 project Hillary

by 10 to 12 points up until Comey’s announcement re: new emails in later October?

[Iliyah]

13. It will backfire . . .

it shows that BiBi is t-rump's puppet. Inturn, t-rump is Putin's puppet . .

[calimary]

54. Ironic, isn't it. Well, sir, we see who YOU take orders from.

[bucolic_frolic]

15. I really know very little

about diplomatic matters, except maybe a wee bit about the origins of the diplomatic system, setup by the Congress of Vienna post-Napoleon. That's why we have sealed diplomatic pouches, respect for ambassadors and personnel. It probably doesn't apply to legislative representatives travelling to or in a foreign country, but it's really not in the spirit of openness, willing to listen even when parties disagree.

This hindrance needs to be nipped in the bud.

[larwdem]

17. stop all

funding and pull all military support .
I don't want one fucking dime going
to that country.

[machoneman]

20. Day 1 of our new Presdency: close all US based Israeli embassies, kick out every single diplomat for

one year.

[Cha]

22. Excellent statement.. Define them as "weak" which they are!

“Israel’s denial of entry to Congresswomen Tlaib and Omar is a sign of weakness, and beneath the dignity of the great State of Israel. The President’s statements about the Congresswomen are a sign of ignorance and disrespect, and beneath the dignity of the Office of the President.”

Thank you, ehrnst!

[onecaliberal]

27. Dear Pelosi- CUT ALL FUNDING. I don't want my tax dollars going anywhere my rep isn't welcome.

Who the fuck do these people think they are?

[MyOwnPeace]

44. Yep!

They don't want Americans - they don't get American money.

It's that simple!

[cstanleytech]

28. She needs to move beyond words and bring action such as refusal to pass any budget that does not

include language barring federal and financial aid to Israel as well language expressly forbidding the spending of federal money to pay for anyone to travel there including the President with the Secret Service until Israel issues a formal apology.

[onenote]

51. Do you think the American public will support shutting down the government over that language?

[cstanleytech]

57. Depends on how its done and how it is phrased.

If its carefully done then yes if its haphazardly done then no.

[StarfishSaver]

75. By the time a budget vote cones up, this will be very old news

[KPN]

89. True. And it's sadly too often all about

the news cycle.

[yaesu]

31. "a sign of ignorance and disrespect, and beneath the dignity of the Office of the President."

This was one of ten Articles that Andrew Johnson was impeached for, sound familiar?


ARTICLE 10.That said Andrew Johnson, President of the United States, unmindful of the high duties of his high office and the dignity and proprieties thereof, and of the harmony and courtesies which ought to exist and be maintained between the executive and legislative branches of the Government of the United States, designing and intending to set aside the rightful authorities and powers of Congress, did attempt to bring into disgrace, ridicule, hatred, contempt and reproach, the Congress of the United States, and the several branches thereof, to impair and destroy the regard and respect of all the good people of the United States for the Congress and the legislative power thereof, which all officers of the government ought inviolably to preserve and maintain, and to excite the odium and resentment of all good people of the United States against Congress and the laws by it duly and constitutionally enacted; and in pursuance of his said design and intent, openly and publicly and before divers assemblages of citizens of the United States, convened in divers parts thereof, to meet and receive said Andrew Johnson as the Chief Magistrate of the United States, did, on the eighteenth day of August, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-six, and on divers other days and times, as well before as afterwards, make and declare, with a loud voice, certain intemperate, inflammatory and scandalous harangues, and therein utter loud threats and bitter menaces, as well against Congress as the laws of the United States duly enacted thereby, amid the cries, jeers and laughter of the multitudes then assembled in hearing, which are set forth in the several specifications hereinafter written, in substance and effect, that it to say:

[Ponietz]

34. Thank you for posting this

[karin_sj]

56. Wow

This describes the orange pustule and what he is currently doing to a tee. They could cut and replace "Andrew Johnson" with "Donald Trump" & add the current date, and it would be totally accurate.

[Grins]

32. It needed a little bit of a threat...

“...and we will remember this...”

[Red Pest]

35. The Netanyahu government is weak

As a Jewish American who supports labor Zionism and whose entire family has lived in or visited Israel, I am appalled by the kowtowing of Netanyahu to Donald Trump. This is a sign of weakness by both Netanyahu and Trump. Both are desperate to hold onto their extreme right wing bases in their respective upcoming elections. To bar the entry of legislators from one's closest ally just because they are critics clearly shows the weakness Netanyahu and his party. Further, if Trump thinks that this will help him with the American Jewish community, he is wrong. The large majority of American Jews are liberal Democrats. We despise Trump and his bigotry and have no love for Netanyahu.

[zentrum]

37. We are way way way

...beneath dignity at this point.

[SummerSnow]

39. By the order of Trump. Not surprised at this. Divider in chief

[LiberalFighter]

40. Getting tired of Israel's government.

Need to reduce aid to them and reduce congressional delegation trips to Israel.

[ooky]

76. +1

Fuck Israel. When they so high and mighty that they start banning our congress members for their right wing ideological bullshit they don't need any more of our tax money. I'm getting sick and tired of Israel.

[KPN]

90. Not to mention bypass and ignore the Executive Branch and

go right to Congress when the President is a Democrat and black, and Congress is Repugnican.

[ooky]

92. Yep, they did that too, when they aren't busy stealing indigenous lands.

I've about had my fill of Israel's right wing government.

[ancianita]

41. Which only solidifies for me the deep intractability of global believer walls -- and wars.

Israel's basis is Zionist. Racism is written into its constitution.

Believer wars and exclusionary walls will always be the enemy of Western Enlightenment values.

And, of course, the corporate market values that drive these conflicts for profit.

This christo-fascist minority government, in league with the christo-fascist oligarchic government of Russia, want to keep the world full of corporate whores and their believer wars. And now the Saudis will join forces.

If only most Americans could see this going into the 2020 elections.

[AlexSFCA]

43. What is Shumer's statement on this?

[Behind the Aegis]

47. ....

“Denying entry to members of the United States Congress is a sign of weakness, not strength,” Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), a staunch Israel ally, said in a statement. “It will only hurt the U.S.-Israeli relationship and support for Israel in America. No democratic society should fear an open debate. Many strong supporters of Israel will be deeply disappointed in this decision, which the Israeli government should reverse.”

Good enough?

[crazytown]

45. Pitch perfect

Maybe Pelosi is too old for the job

[duforsure]

48. This is another sign of how weak trump is

And how corrupt both trump and Israel has become.

[rickford66]

49. The Yahoo came here and complained about the Iran deal by addressing Congress.

How is the Congressional visit different ? Oh! Dark skinned women.

[DemoTex]

53. Straight from the Trump Spite House

The Spite House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500

[stillcool]

55. Eff em...

boycott Israel.

[cstanleytech]

58. Not just boycott, we need to cut off all aid to them until they apologize for this.

Plus no federal dollars should be approved for traveling to Israel except for the ambassador, his immedient staff and minor other embassy personal.

[gtar100]

59. What's particularly sad is tRump making all this shit up.

He says Omar and Tlaib "hate Israel", etc., ad nauseum but if he were asked what exactly they said he wouldn't know because he's fucking lying again. They said nothing of the sort. Criticism of Israel's actions towards Palestinians is not hate. tRump is a lost cause but the leaders of Israel? They need to pull their head out of their ass and stop listening to that cretin. Nothing good ever comes from tRump and they should know that. Only blind self-interest stands in their way.

[Mosby]

69. Tlaib explicitly supports the elimination of Israel

That doesn't seem very friendly or progressive to me.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/us-news/.premium-from-two-states-to-one-michigan-s-tlaib-shifts-position-on-israel-1.6387175

[gtar100]

80. That's hyperbole stating her position like that.

In her own words :

https://tlaib.house.gov/media/press-releases/congresswoman-rashida-tlaib-s-statement-false-gop-attacks

Excerpt

"Anti-Semitism has no place in our society and any effort to try to sow hate and divisiveness into our political discourse must be stopped immediately in its tracks. Hate and violence will not move this country forward. Only inclusive leadership and confronting the truth about the growing white nationalist movement in our country will move us forward. Unfortunately, we are not seeing it from President Trump nor his Republican Party.”

Those sound like words of support for the Jewish people. Nothing she's said that I've heard gave me the impression that she wants to eliminate Israel.

The link you provided doesn't appear to me to support your assertion. To say she "explicitly supports the elimination of Israel" is an interpretation and not her words. Neither you nor I know what is truly in her heart but by her own words at both links I don't hear it as that. For goodness sake, she's Palestinian by heritage so would you not expect her to support equal rights and human rights for the people of Palestine. That seems to be a problem for the Israeli government. The article also states she's against expanding the settlements. Makes sense to me because that expansion typically means Palestinians losing their homes and land. A very inconvenient truth for the Israelis considering how hypocritical it is. Both sides claim rights to the land and if they can't figure out how to live together, it'll be endless conflict. By their actions, it's clear that it's the right-wing Israeli government that wants to eliminate Palestine. They came to Palestine with guns and tanks, killed many people and took over the land Palestinians had been living on for generations. Yea, who wouldn't be upset about that. Would you give me your home and land if I brought my holy book and told you God gave them to me and you need to leave? Seems absurd but that's what the Israelis want the Palestinians to do.

But to say that Tlaib wants to eliminate Israel doesn't reflect in her own words on either Twitter or the article at your link.

Back in the 1970s, I read an article about some groups in Israel putting both Jewish and Arabic children together in schools at an early age as a strategy to overcome the bitterness and anger both sides feel because of the conflict. One stated goal was to sow friendships between the children of these two cultures. Over the subsequent years, sadly the practice was abandoned (not sure when but it's obvious now that it didn't happen long enough for it to do any good) and the conflicts continued as Palestine shrunk to smaller and smaller areas. I can't help but think if enough of the population grew up with friends from both sides, a one state solution would be what they'd want, not two states with constant disputes over who owns what. Unfortunately, nationalism and 20th century thinking has prevailed and the fighting continues.

[treestar]

104. That article does not support your statement

[Mosby]

105. Sure it does

Asked whether she supported a one-state or two-state solution, her response was clear: “One state. It has to be one state. Separate but equal does not work. I’m only 42-years old but my teachers were of that generation that marched with Martin Luther King. This whole idea of a two-state solution, it doesn’t work.”

On U.S. aid to Israel, she said, “Americans should not be aiding any country that doesn’t support human rights. I’ve been very clear. I will not support racist countries that pick and choose who gets access to justice.”

She does not respect Jewish rights to a homeland. Instead she wants a Muslim majority country to replace Israel.

The Jewish people have been living in Israel for more than 3000 years and have a right to live in their ancestral homeland and control their own destiny.

[treestar]

106. Neither of those opines that Israel should

Last edited Mon Aug 19, 2019, 12:49 PM - Edit history (1)

Be eliminated. You are interpreting the first for yourself. The second - we do not it have to aid any country.

[gulliver]

64. Trump just wants to be impeached for reasons other than obstruction and collusion.

He knows he needs to stay in office to avoid prosecution, so he wants Dems to impeach him for the high crime (and it is a high crime) of abusing his power to attack Muslims and Democrats. Obstruction and Collusion "high crimes and misdemeanors" are much more prickly for him, because they are him against the laws of the land and the basic loyalty due to the United States and its Constitution. Trump wants it to be him against Democrats and Muslims.

[riversedge]

67. Whow--Pelosi smacked Trump-as she should -in that last Paragraph. Good for her and

for the USA. We can not allow Trump to Cyberbully his opposition. Shame on Trump

[Scurrilous]

77. ...

[malthaussen]

93. So, by the Ambassador's own admission...

... it must be concluded that Israel does not respect the United States.

-- Mal