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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPelosi Statement on Israel's Decision to Block Members of Congress from Entering the Country
Last month, Israeli Ambassador Dermer stated that, Out of respect for the U.S. Congress and the great alliance between Israel and America, we would not deny entry to any Member of Congress into Israel. This is a sad reversal and is deeply disappointing. I pray that the Government of Israel will reverse that denial.
Israels denial of entry to Congresswomen Tlaib and Omar is a sign of weakness, and beneath the dignity of the great State of Israel. The Presidents statements about the Congresswomen are a sign of ignorance and disrespect, and beneath the dignity of the Office of the President.
https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/81519/
dalton99a
(81,386 posts)OnDoutside
(19,945 posts)this slide, what's next ?
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)then yes, she did NOT 'let it slide'.
If one's definition of the term includes tangible ACTION, beyond words ... then I think we're going to find that by THAT definition ... it WILL be 'let slide'.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)be forgotten by tomorrow. It wont produce much hyperventilation so will sink rapidly into oblivion. Like a lot of important stuff.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)then it's just "words."
So, what exactly would "tangible ACTION" would be satisfactory to you on Speaker Pelosi's part?
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)And no real action will be taken beyond words.
That's it.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)What actions would be on such a "list?"
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)jayfish
(10,037 posts)Recall The Congressional Delegation. ...immediately!
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)jayfish
(10,037 posts)we're only there until 8/11.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)I just said people's definitions of 'letting something slide' ... are different.
I think that's fair to say.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Why are you responding as though you are Jayfish?
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)Don't start with some paranoid multiple account stuff, I promise you I'm always me.
This is all on a subthread I started
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Or not?
No need to get defensive - take a few deep breaths...
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)lapucelle
(18,187 posts)informal
: to do nothing about (something, such as another person's mistake or bad behavior)
: to ignore (something)
Ted Lieu is on CNN as we speak. He just publicly called on our ambassador to Israel to resign in protest over Netanyahu's ban.
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)lapucelle
(18,187 posts)Hasty alarm about "letting something slide" is clearly unfounded.
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)just said ... to come up with a reasonable list of actions she might take that would be satisfactory.
I think that list is going to be pretty small, and only arguably reasonable.
Fair enough?
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Your post, yes?
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)And therefore by their definition, she's letting it slide.
I don't know what those options may or may not be, personally.
That said, I do doubt kinda she does anything much more to just say ... what she said. For better or worse, and whether there are options or not.
You will pretty much never find a post of me on here bashing Nancy, btw.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And it looks like they have agreed to allow Tlaib to visit on humanitarian grounds.
Response to ehrnst (Reply #7)
Post removed
brutus smith
(685 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Perhaps you'd grace us with what would be ever be acceptable to you from Madame Speaker
brutus smith
(685 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Last edited Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:37 AM - Edit history (2)
You seem to think that there is action that Madame Speaker could take but refuses to concerning Israel's actions, hence your headbang emoji.
Do share.
But I'll save you some time and headbang emojis. Impeachment would not do anything to thwart Trump - and certainly won't prevent him from trying to deflect attention away from it by starting a war/Reichstag fire or escalating his hate rhetoric to gin up his supporters who might ramp up the hate crimes and "second amendment solutions" in response. But from what I've heard, it's the "constitutional duty" that would solve everything from climate change to the common cold.
'K?
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Thought so.
slumcamper
(1,604 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)OnDoutside
(19,945 posts)"Democrats", and that by not letting it slide, there must be a consequence, or else they'll do it again or worse.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Can you be specific?
If you're going to damn them for inaction, then tell us what actions - specifically - they can take.
What "purse" are you talking about? Funds that have been approved in legislation can't be lifted without more legislation.... that has to be passed by the Senate and signed by POTUS.
What magic wand do "fellow Democrats" have that will allow them to suspend the constitution?
OnDoutside
(19,945 posts)"Probably a step too far just yet, but it should be at least on the table. If fellow Democrats let
this slide, what's next ?"
Have you not heard of the "Public purse" ? https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/public_purse
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_of_the_purse
Calm down, ehrnst, there's no need to be so defensive.
You've mentioned two silly options : blocking already approved funds & suspending the constitution.
Nancy Pelosi could easily say two practical things
1) No more Democratic members of the House will travel to Israel, until all members are allowed to travel.
and/or
2) Future funding will also depend on all members of the House and Senate being allowed to travel to Israel.
She can say it either privately or publicly, but it needs to be said. It gives enough time too for it to be quietly overturned.
Tlaib did the right thing in refusing to go, when they were still blocking Omar.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Now, you agreed with that public purse quote.
Right here:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12381837
If you don't believe me, scroll up. No need to get your blood pressure up.
and/or
2) Future funding will also depend on all members of the House and Senate being allowed to travel to Israel.
#1: Perhaps you haven't seen the discussions on DU where Madame Speaker was called "tyranical" for suggesting in a meeting that Democrats who have issues with each other should talk to the rep they have a problem with first before taking to twitter... But do you know that she has the authority to prohibit travel by congressmembers?
#2: Interesting that Trump times throwing gasoline on the Israel boycott discussion as impeachment talk ramps up.
I think that he's escalating, trying another tactic to split Democrats, after the last one failed:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/16/us/politics/trump-israel.htmlail
OnDoutside
(19,945 posts)Yes, absolutely I agreed with the poster who suggested using the public purse, but to go after me for just agreeing with someone is a little odd. Nonetheless it's a good Idea to show the Israeli government that there's a price to be paid for picking sides, if they don't change their course of action.
No I haven't seen the other discussions, and haven't gone after Pelosi, who has been brilliant, particularly over holding the baying impeachment crowd at bay. My point still stands that if Democrats let this slide, Netanahu sp will do it again. Nip this in the bud fast, otherwise Trump definitely will take advantage of any dithering. And no harm to give Netanyahu a kick in the arse after 2016.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)onenote
(42,531 posts)While certain types of legislation must originate in the House, it still takes both houses to pass legislation.
maxsolomon
(33,232 posts)So he can tar the entire party with the Anti-Semite brush.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)All House members from any official travel to Israel until they are willing to host all members of Congress
OnDoutside
(19,945 posts)comradebillyboy
(10,128 posts)NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Scarsdale
(9,426 posts)most of the US aid on weapons, don't they? Cut it off. Bibi should be in prison anyway. Wasn't he convicted of fraud or something similar? By the way, they have a national health service. Since WE support their war spending, they can afford to give their people health coverage. Stop the aid, spend it on getting this country decent health care.
Israel is also the only country receiving American money for its military that is allowed to use that money to buy weapons from its own domestic manufacturers.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)dalton99a
(81,386 posts)rocktivity
(44,571 posts)As speaker, does Nancy have the power to do that?
rocktivity
cstanleytech
(26,222 posts)refuse to pass any budget that does not include language that expressly forbids federal money to be spent to pay for anyone (other than for specific people such as the official ambassador) to travel to Israel.
onenote
(42,531 posts)Shutting down the government on October 1 over Israel's refusal to let Omar and Tlaib into the country would not exactly win the hearts and minds of the millions who would be impacted adversely the shutdown. It would be a wet dream for Trump.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)That will certainly send a message to Israel, won't it?
Besides, that travel budget is made by the State Department head, as it is for all departments. You really want Congress to shut down the government to try to change that???
Because the next time we have a Dem POTUS, and a GOP congress, they will use that to carry out their own policies in defiance of POTUS and the State Department.
It seems when some people get really angry and frustrated at Trump they suddenly become experts on what powers the Constitution grants Congress, and particularly Madame Speaker, have. As though the Blue Wave gave voters the right to expect miracles in minutes.
Like Tea Partiers who instantly became Constitutional scholars the minute Obama got sworn in.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)bdamomma
(63,791 posts)total intolerance of others WTF. And they are Congresswomen. Hmm..BeBe doing a favor for tRump perhaps??, dictators who stick together.
Takket
(21,526 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Sugarcoated
(7,716 posts)Damaging their reputation in the eyes of millions of Americans, showing they are weak, petty, extreme. The koo koo right wingers won't always be in power....so short sighted.
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)Scarsdale
(9,426 posts)He knew the fix was in the last time. That explains his Merrick Garland railroading. Leningrad Lindsey may know now, too. He has big plans for dropping Obama Care once the gop takes charge again.
Sugarcoated
(7,716 posts)and they had confidence playing dirty could squeak it out for the child rapist. This time it's not going to be as close and the candidate isn't going to be Hillary so, I don't think the GOP is that powerful.
KPN
(15,635 posts)by 10 to 12 points up until Comeys announcement re: new emails in later October?
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)it shows that BiBi is t-rump's puppet. Inturn, t-rump is Putin's puppet . .
calimary
(81,085 posts)bucolic_frolic
(43,027 posts)about diplomatic matters, except maybe a wee bit about the origins of the diplomatic system, setup by the Congress of Vienna post-Napoleon. That's why we have sealed diplomatic pouches, respect for ambassadors and personnel. It probably doesn't apply to legislative representatives travelling to or in a foreign country, but it's really not in the spirit of openness, willing to listen even when parties disagree.
This hindrance needs to be nipped in the bud.
larwdem
(758 posts)funding and pull all military support .
I don't want one fucking dime going
to that country.
machoneman
(3,994 posts)one year.
Cha
(296,775 posts)Thank you, ehrnst!
onecaliberal
(32,775 posts)Who the fuck do these people think they are?
MyOwnPeace
(16,917 posts)They don't want Americans - they don't get American money.
It's that simple!
cstanleytech
(26,222 posts)include language barring federal and financial aid to Israel as well language expressly forbidding the spending of federal money to pay for anyone to travel there including the President with the Secret Service until Israel issues a formal apology.
onenote
(42,531 posts)cstanleytech
(26,222 posts)If its carefully done then yes if its haphazardly done then no.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)KPN
(15,635 posts)the news cycle.
yaesu
(8,020 posts)This was one of ten Articles that Andrew Johnson was impeached for, sound familiar?
ARTICLE 10.That said Andrew Johnson, President of the United States, unmindful of the high duties of his high office and the dignity and proprieties thereof, and of the harmony and courtesies which ought to exist and be maintained between the executive and legislative branches of the Government of the United States, designing and intending to set aside the rightful authorities and powers of Congress, did attempt to bring into disgrace, ridicule, hatred, contempt and reproach, the Congress of the United States, and the several branches thereof, to impair and destroy the regard and respect of all the good people of the United States for the Congress and the legislative power thereof, which all officers of the government ought inviolably to preserve and maintain, and to excite the odium and resentment of all good people of the United States against Congress and the laws by it duly and constitutionally enacted; and in pursuance of his said design and intent, openly and publicly and before divers assemblages of citizens of the United States, convened in divers parts thereof, to meet and receive said Andrew Johnson as the Chief Magistrate of the United States, did, on the eighteenth day of August, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-six, and on divers other days and times, as well before as afterwards, make and declare, with a loud voice, certain intemperate, inflammatory and scandalous harangues, and therein utter loud threats and bitter menaces, as well against Congress as the laws of the United States duly enacted thereby, amid the cries, jeers and laughter of the multitudes then assembled in hearing, which are set forth in the several specifications hereinafter written, in substance and effect, that it to say:
Ponietz
(2,934 posts)This describes the orange pustule and what he is currently doing to a tee. They could cut and replace "Andrew Johnson" with "Donald Trump" & add the current date, and it would be totally accurate.
Grins
(7,189 posts)...and we will remember this...
Red Pest
(288 posts)As a Jewish American who supports labor Zionism and whose entire family has lived in or visited Israel, I am appalled by the kowtowing of Netanyahu to Donald Trump. This is a sign of weakness by both Netanyahu and Trump. Both are desperate to hold onto their extreme right wing bases in their respective upcoming elections. To bar the entry of legislators from one's closest ally just because they are critics clearly shows the weakness Netanyahu and his party. Further, if Trump thinks that this will help him with the American Jewish community, he is wrong. The large majority of American Jews are liberal Democrats. We despise Trump and his bigotry and have no love for Netanyahu.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)...beneath dignity at this point.
SummerSnow
(12,608 posts)LiberalFighter
(50,767 posts)Need to reduce aid to them and reduce congressional delegation trips to Israel.
Fuck Israel. When they so high and mighty that they start banning our congress members for their right wing ideological bullshit they don't need any more of our tax money. I'm getting sick and tired of Israel.
KPN
(15,635 posts)go right to Congress when the President is a Democrat and black, and Congress is Repugnican.
ooky
(8,905 posts)I've about had my fill of Israel's right wing government.
ancianita
(35,926 posts)Israel's basis is Zionist. Racism is written into its constitution.
Believer wars and exclusionary walls will always be the enemy of Western Enlightenment values.
And, of course, the corporate market values that drive these conflicts for profit.
This christo-fascist minority government, in league with the christo-fascist oligarchic government of Russia, want to keep the world full of corporate whores and their believer wars. And now the Saudis will join forces.
If only most Americans could see this going into the 2020 elections.
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)Behind the Aegis
(53,919 posts)Denying entry to members of the United States Congress is a sign of weakness, not strength, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), a staunch Israel ally, said in a statement. It will only hurt the U.S.-Israeli relationship and support for Israel in America. No democratic society should fear an open debate. Many strong supporters of Israel will be deeply disappointed in this decision, which the Israeli government should reverse.
Good enough?
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Maybe Pelosi is too old for the job
duforsure
(11,884 posts)And how corrupt both trump and Israel has become.
rickford66
(5,521 posts)How is the Congressional visit different ? Oh! Dark skinned women.
DemoTex
(25,389 posts)The Spite House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500
stillcool
(32,626 posts)boycott Israel.
cstanleytech
(26,222 posts)Plus no federal dollars should be approved for traveling to Israel except for the ambassador, his immedient staff and minor other embassy personal.
gtar100
(4,192 posts)He says Omar and Tlaib "hate Israel", etc., ad nauseum but if he were asked what exactly they said he wouldn't know because he's fucking lying again. They said nothing of the sort. Criticism of Israel's actions towards Palestinians is not hate. tRump is a lost cause but the leaders of Israel? They need to pull their head out of their ass and stop listening to that cretin. Nothing good ever comes from tRump and they should know that. Only blind self-interest stands in their way.
Mosby
(16,252 posts)That doesn't seem very friendly or progressive to me.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/us-news/.premium-from-two-states-to-one-michigan-s-tlaib-shifts-position-on-israel-1.6387175
gtar100
(4,192 posts)In her own words :
https://tlaib.house.gov/media/press-releases/congresswoman-rashida-tlaib-s-statement-false-gop-attacks
Excerpt
"Anti-Semitism has no place in our society and any effort to try to sow hate and divisiveness into our political discourse must be stopped immediately in its tracks. Hate and violence will not move this country forward. Only inclusive leadership and confronting the truth about the growing white nationalist movement in our country will move us forward. Unfortunately, we are not seeing it from President Trump nor his Republican Party.
Those sound like words of support for the Jewish people. Nothing she's said that I've heard gave me the impression that she wants to eliminate Israel.
The link you provided doesn't appear to me to support your assertion. To say she "explicitly supports the elimination of Israel" is an interpretation and not her words. Neither you nor I know what is truly in her heart but by her own words at both links I don't hear it as that. For goodness sake, she's Palestinian by heritage so would you not expect her to support equal rights and human rights for the people of Palestine. That seems to be a problem for the Israeli government. The article also states she's against expanding the settlements. Makes sense to me because that expansion typically means Palestinians losing their homes and land. A very inconvenient truth for the Israelis considering how hypocritical it is. Both sides claim rights to the land and if they can't figure out how to live together, it'll be endless conflict. By their actions, it's clear that it's the right-wing Israeli government that wants to eliminate Palestine. They came to Palestine with guns and tanks, killed many people and took over the land Palestinians had been living on for generations. Yea, who wouldn't be upset about that. Would you give me your home and land if I brought my holy book and told you God gave them to me and you need to leave? Seems absurd but that's what the Israelis want the Palestinians to do.
But to say that Tlaib wants to eliminate Israel doesn't reflect in her own words on either Twitter or the article at your link.
Back in the 1970s, I read an article about some groups in Israel putting both Jewish and Arabic children together in schools at an early age as a strategy to overcome the bitterness and anger both sides feel because of the conflict. One stated goal was to sow friendships between the children of these two cultures. Over the subsequent years, sadly the practice was abandoned (not sure when but it's obvious now that it didn't happen long enough for it to do any good) and the conflicts continued as Palestine shrunk to smaller and smaller areas. I can't help but think if enough of the population grew up with friends from both sides, a one state solution would be what they'd want, not two states with constant disputes over who owns what. Unfortunately, nationalism and 20th century thinking has prevailed and the fighting continues.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Mosby
(16,252 posts)On U.S. aid to Israel, she said, Americans should not be aiding any country that doesnt support human rights. Ive been very clear. I will not support racist countries that pick and choose who gets access to justice.
She does not respect Jewish rights to a homeland. Instead she wants a Muslim majority country to replace Israel.
The Jewish people have been living in Israel for more than 3000 years and have a right to live in their ancestral homeland and control their own destiny.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Last edited Mon Aug 19, 2019, 12:49 PM - Edit history (1)
Be eliminated. You are interpreting the first for yourself. The second - we do not it have to aid any country.
gulliver
(13,168 posts)He knows he needs to stay in office to avoid prosecution, so he wants Dems to impeach him for the high crime (and it is a high crime) of abusing his power to attack Muslims and Democrats. Obstruction and Collusion "high crimes and misdemeanors" are much more prickly for him, because they are him against the laws of the land and the basic loyalty due to the United States and its Constitution. Trump wants it to be him against Democrats and Muslims.
riversedge
(70,047 posts)for the USA. We can not allow Trump to Cyberbully his opposition. Shame on Trump
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)malthaussen
(17,175 posts)... it must be concluded that Israel does not respect the United States.
-- Mal