2 Condos Were Illegally Converted Into 18 Micro Apartments In NYC

[Recursion]

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/20/752791717/2-condos-were-illegally-converted-into-18-micro-apartments-in-nyc

Two Manhattan landlords took an unusual — and illegal — route to double their rentable space: cutting their two condos in half horizontally so they could rent out 18 tiny apartments in their Lower East Side building, according to the New York City Department of Buildings.

"The ceiling heights were 4.5 feet to 6 feet tall on each level, depending on where you were standing," Department of Buildings spokesperson Abigail Kunitz said in an email to NPR.

When an inspector visited the building this month, he found half-size doors and low ceilings, forcing him to kneel in an improvised hallway. A small staircase connected the two floors. Along with unapproved structural changes, the Department of Buildings says, the inspector found the space riddled with unpermitted electrical and plumbing work.

The compressed living spaces prompted New York City Council Member Ben Kallos to compare the arrangement to the movie Being John Malkovich, which features a cramped office — and a tiny door — on floor 7 1/2 of a Manhattan building.

OK, this won't be popular, but: we should be rewarding this, not assessing fines. The landlords found a way to get rent down to $600 in the Lower East Side. We need denser living spaces in high-rent cities, and this is a pretty creative example of one.

[Hekate]

1. No. Just no. Hamburgered plumbing and electricity? Having to crawl in? Nothing up to code?

This is a death-trap-in-waiting.

I've seen photo-essays of extremely tiny NYC apartments already in existence. About all I can say is at least you can stand up and lie down as needed.

[Recursion]

2. There's not a single building in the Lower East Side that's up to code

Yes, it's going to need fire exit improvements. But if we want Manhattan to be an affordable place to live this is the size of the apartment we need to go back to.

[meadowlander]

5. Manhattan is never going to be an affordable place to live.

Rent control a % of apartments for low income workers and everyone else can get over themselves and commute from Jersey. The trains run every ten minutes.

[Recursion]

15. It has been in the past (nt)

[meadowlander]

17. Finite space. Infinite demand.

Absent some form of regulatory intervention (like rent control) carving up smaller and smaller spaces and sacrificing basic health, safety and dignity won't achieve affordable housing. If you let everyone do this, these apartments would still be going for $2,000 a month in a few years.

[Recursion]

23. Come on, Manhattan has had the strictest rent control in the country for 70 years now

They've been living under an "emergency rent declaration" since 1947. It doesn't work; the only thing that works is building more housing.

[Dorian Gray]

35. In the past

people lived in tenements. Families of 7 in a teeny tiny apartment on the LES. They also worked in those very same apartments during the day. And they were not in good condition ,nor were they safe.

[MichMan]

37. Why are they still allowed to rent them out if they violate codes?

Building codes exist for a reason. Are landlords and building owners not expected to follow laws?

[Recursion]

38. Why are local governments so often corrupt and easily captured...

... by the forces they are supposed to regulate?

[RockRaven]

3. 4.5 foot ceilings? That's a death trap. EMS and Fire cannot get in there in emergencies.

Higher density and lower cost housing is great... if it is reasonably safe. While some zoning laws and building codes *are* about NIMBY-ism and enacted at the behest of the rich/powerful, a hell of a lot of them are about keeping people alive. That's why we cannot cheer willy-nilly about them being violated just because it temporarily resulted in lower rents for a handful of people.

Here in northern CA a few years back something made national headlines -- there were some people who tried to deal with high housing costs by adding living spaces without permits and against codes. Three dozen people died in a fire. The manslaughter trials are still on-going. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_Ghost_Ship_fire

[Hekate]

7. I also thought of the Ghost Ship, which was an artists' colony of sorts. So very many died. nt

[912gdm]

46. Thats immediately what I thought of when I read the OP

[Demovictory9]

8. Plus 1000

[Recursion]

12. Tokyo makes it work (nt)

[RockRaven]

18. Pointing to Tokyo as an exemplar only proves my point -- done within the rules.

Japan is one of the most rule-following-est places around. As a general rule and to a much higher degree than in the US, their high density housing meets the safety standards that their society has agreed are necessary and appropriate. The construction discussed in your article does not -- which is the entire basis for the article.

[Recursion]

26. Obviously the additions need to be torn down and everything built to code

But right now it's illegal to rent to that many people in that space. If it were legal, he could hire an actual contractor to build 18 standable rooms with sleeping cubbies, like you see in Tokyo.

[meadowlander]

4. If people were dogs you wouldn't be allowed to keep them in those conditions.

One bathroom split between nine strangers?

And that's not even getting into the fire hazards.


They are slum landlords - throw the book at them.

[Recursion]

10. I've shared bathrooms with more than 9 people

Hell it was standard in SROs in the 50s to share one with the whole floor.

[BeyondGeography]

33. Your SRO room with its regulation-height ceiling was a palace compared with these cubby holes

I lived in one in the early 80s until I landed a rent stabilized railroad flat for $475/mo. Split two ways it was way cheaper than the $100/week SRO. The landlord was letting the building go to seed but I didn’t care, even though rats were eating through the tiles of my dropped ceiling and they were so big the ceiling would move as they scurried about. Actually, I did care, but then I would think back to my SRO.

It’s sad what has happened with NYC housing. There are no easy answers but turning part of the housing stock into Hong Kong on a bad day isn’t one of them.

[GeorgeGist]

45. Back when America was Great?

[procon]

6. No! WTF are you thinking?

Don't give a free pass to the greedy landlords who put money over the safety of the tenets. Imagine the death toll if there was a fire in a rabbit warren like that. That building would have been a death trap, not only for the residents, but also the rescue personal who would try to save them.

There's no way to paint any sort of excuse for the avarice of anyone who put money over the lives of others.

They can build tiny apartments that comply with safety codes. Certainly not 18, but as many that would comply with heath and safety codes. I've build 3 homes and certain conditions must be met before any space is certified as fit for human occupancy. A standard door egress would be one, the ability to stand upright, and not be in danger of faulty electrical and water services would likewise be a requirement.

[Recursion]

11. So fix the fire exits

If we want people to be able to live in expensive cities we need to find ways to build very small places for them to live very close together.

[meadowlander]

16. It's not about the fire exits being broken,

it's about the time it takes ten people to crawl on their knees out of a room designed for two people to be able to run out of and the ability of emergency services to access the rooms with their equipment.

[procon]

19. What good would that do?

There was a photo that showed a common hallway that was only 2 ft wide and only tall enough that adults were forced to their knees. Now picture a firefighter in full turnout gear who couldn't even physically get into that hallway let alone enter any on the luliputian apt doorways.

What if you were a tenant trying to get out along with every other tenent and everyone was trapped in a 2 x 4ft. crawlspace. If just one person went down, the whole queue would be stuck. You'd all die.

Fire exits are only one aspect of the omitted safety precautions. There are better low cost housing schemes in place in many cities. But the larger problem is no one wants to relinquish prime real estate for cheap housing units when they could make a fortune with upscale units instead. TPTB lack the leadership strength to make dedicated set asides for affordable urban housing.

[Recursion]

21. Hold on, think about what you just wrote

no one wants to relinquish prime real estate for cheap housing units when they could make a fortune with upscale units instead

Hold on. This guy converted 2 luxe condos to 18 ratholes because it made him more money. I find this intriguing because it proves that you can rent out affordable property profitably in Manhattan at the right density.

[Roy Rolling]

25. Wrong

A 5-foot high ceiling is not ”at the right density”.
End of story. That is the “right density” for someone who is , maximum, 5-feet tall.
Humans are taller than that in NYC.
Please rethink your concept of what is a livable place. Also, residing in close proximity to the heart of NYC commercial district will never be “cheap”—until commercial real estate drops in value.

[meadowlander]

29. There was never any question that you can make money by packing and stacking people.

The point is that people need access to natural sunlight and air and enough living space to stretch their legs, have some privacy, carry out basic living functions like cooking, washing themselves, and using the bathroom, and store some of their belongings like clothes.

New York has already tried "pack em and stack em". They're called slum tenements. And they were a serious health hazard. That's why we have building codes.

Here's the face of "affordable Manhattan living" for you:





https://thumbs-prod.si-cdn.com/ikYyMcR9CsdXLAQDGaon1c9EF6s=/1072x720/filters:no_upscale()/





I'm sure these landlords made a killing. Not really the point though, is it?

[Recursion]

30. Those are culturally determined "needs"

The point is that people need access to natural sunlight and air and enough living space to stretch their legs, have some privacy, carry out basic living functions like cooking, washing themselves, and using the bathroom, and store some of their belongings like clothes.

Or rather, it's culturally determined that those things need to be available in the place you sleep. Middle class people in Mumbai live in chowls where they share a kitchen and bathroom with the rest of the floor, and do their laundry in the courtyard. There's not much space, but you're only in there for sleeping, and it's the only way to fit that many people in the city.

[meadowlander]

32. And get dysentery and tuberculosis and all manner of other communicable diseases at a much higher

rate than in the US.

They are not "culturally determined" needs. There is a wealth of medical research that shows the health impacts of overcrowding.

Building and zoning codes were not just pulled out of someone's ass one day as a way to drive up housing costs. They were a response to a wave of pandemics and fires that killed tens of thousands of people in the late 19th and early 20th century and which were directly attributable to poor housing quality.

[Recursion]

39. Because they don't have running water

It's not lack of legroom that causes cholera; it's lack of toilets that flush.

[MrsCoffee]

44. Lack of legroom causes dvt just for starters.

That’s what killed my brother because he was sleeping in his car.

The inspectors had to kneel down to get in the doors of those units? Yeah, that’s super creative.

Super creative way to make money.

Unreal.

[meadowlander]

57. When I lived in China,

where I had an apartment with a 8' ceiling BTW the same as everyone else even the little grandmas in public housing, I once taught an English class of about 25-30 students about different kinds of injuries. I asked how many had scars. All of them.

What was the most common cause? Burns from space heaters. More than half of them had injured themselves as children or teens by falling asleep and knocking into them.

[procon]

42. No argument can be based on the profit motives of landlords.

Health and safety codes are based on a minimum standard of living to protect people. This varies by location as the dangers of a tenement fire in a crowded city is far greater than a shed fire in a rural area.

Landlords can't be relied upon, or expected to be philanthropists and build low cost housing on their city properties. That's where government is needed to come up with workable housing solutions and the funding to acquire properties and make a substantial number of new low cost units available.

This isn't a third world county (yet) and although those Chinese landlords tried, it's unlikely you'll see many buildings like the one in the article, so let's not go backward and pine for an open drain hand laundry. Open dormitory lodging, shared kitchen space and community bathrooms are fine for youth hostels., but that's not a permanent home.

[Takket]

24. sacrificing safety and health to cram more people

Into a smaller space is not a solution. We don’t NEED to do that just so more people can live in Manhattan. We have building codes for a reason.

[Demovictory9]

9. noooooooooooooooooooooooo. just no. dangerous and depressing. no windows. no quiet.

[Recursion]

13. So live in Jersey or Staten Island

If I could have found a 5-foot-tall cubbyhole to sleep and keep my crap in for $600 when I was a bachelor I would have leapt at the chance.

[Straw Man]

14. This is race-to-the-bottom material, folks.

It's ostensibly the kind of thing immigrants come here to avoid. Reward this? Never. The demand for housing in Manhattan is inexhaustible. If this kind of thing is tolerated, it will become the norm.

There are other and safer ways to do high-density living. This is just greed-driven profiteering.

[griloco]

20. Creative...maybe...but not if the rats end up stoop-shouldered

(Credit to Bob Hope)
http://onceuponasmile.blogspot.com/2007/04/in-days-of-yore.html?m=1

[delisen]

22. Equivalent to not paying living wage n/t

We could be designing and building fabulous new earthquake and tornado resistant earth-friendly and people-friendly cities on pillars.

[RandiFan1290]

27. Many think you should be happy with a coffin sized box to live in.

Just don't touch their tax cuts

[Takket]

28. Can you imagine what slumlords like drumpf and Kushner

Would do is this became the norm? Not to mention that if decent sized and safe apartments became more rare their cost would soar even more of these “cages” would pop up. And then landlords will just charge more for them!

[tymorial]

31. Um no. Code exists for a reason.

[Dorian Gray]

34. I don't think so

Everything was unsafe and the landlords did this out of greed, not charity.

Yes, rent is out of control. But landlords like this are NOT heroes.

The illegal changes they made to the apartments could cause all sorts of long term damage. It's dangerous to live without everything up to code/inspected. And if there was a fire in that building, what types of escape routes were there for the people?

[Me.]

36. You Sound Like A Landlord

[Cal Carpenter]

61. +1000

[tblue37]

40. Article with pictures of these units:

https://gothamist.com/2019/08/19/les_apartment_sublet_dob.php

[Hekate]

48. One brief glimpse of a photo, then paywall

Not your fault

[tblue37]

49. ?? I don't subscribe, but I didn't hit a paywall. nt

[Hekate]

50. I'll try again later. It had a banner demand to donate that just kept repeating as I scrolled down

Someone mentioned the landlords were Chinese. Oh how adorable. They don't understand our soft and decadent ways, so perhaps this is one solution for their workers who get smuggled in on container ships. Yes, that is a thing.

[Retrograde]

58. When I read the article I wondered

how many of the occupants were undocumented and therefore unlikely to complain about their living conditions.

[Hekate]

59. It would make a cruel kind of sense. The OP's contention that this was altruistic rings hollow....

...especially once you find out who the landlords are.

[smirkymonkey]

56. And they still look like total shitholes.

I would have at least thought they would be clean and modern looking. Ugh!

[Amishman]

41. Oh hell no, just thinking about living in tight spaces like that makes claustrophobic

I'll stay out here with the deer and the cows, thank you

[MrsCoffee]

43. What the fuck? Maybe Trump can start charging rent for a spot in those cages.

Wouldn’t that be creative?

I can’t even....

[Tommy_Carcetti]

47. The Legend of the 7 1/2th Floor.

[Yavin4]

51. As a NYer, I'm shocked! Shocked! I tell you...

that this wasn't a Trump or Kushner property.

[wryter2000]

52. Ask the folks in the Ghost Ship building in Oakland

About unsafe wiring.

Edited to add: You can't. They're dead.

[sdfernando]

53. Not to mention the unauthorized duct work

Where's Bob Hoskins when you need him?!?!?

[kcr]

54. Rewarding slumlords shouldn't be popular here.

Nor should it be tolerated.

[chowder66]

55. People should not accept this.

We need more housing so it becomes affordable and living wages. Accepting this will make this the new normal.

[Hekate]

60. NPR has it: link

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/20/752791717/2-condos-were-illegally-converted-into-18-micro-apartments-in-nyc