Seems Trump is getting more Extreme day by day, so tell me something...

[yuiyoshida]

If he declares himself "President for Life", cancels the Election AND the Republicans allow it by refusing to remove him from office... WTF..is there to do next?

It may never happen but if it did, seriously what could people do? Putting kids in cages is bad enough, ...how the hell do we make things right again?

[samplegirl]

1. Go to the Supreme Court

[yuiyoshida]

6. While this sounds sound...

isn't the Supreme court stacked in his favor?

[ProudMNDemocrat]

30. Even the Constitionalists on the Supreme Court would not overturn the 22nd Amendment.

It is clearly written and explained that Presidents are term limited. There are no exceptions.

[yuiyoshida]

33. Yes but who will

enforce it? We don't need a King. Who has the authority to make him stand down?

[leftieNanner]

51. WHEN he is defeated in November 2020

And the new President is inaugurated, the US Marshalls will remove him from the White House. Kicking and screaming if need be.

[True Blue American]

38. Thanks

I do not think John Roberts or the others would go against that.

[pangaia]

11. Like THAT will work. Ya know who rules the SC....

The Federalist Society. That's who.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

46. Even the Federalist Society has to abide by the US Constitution...

The 22nd Amendment to the US Constitution reads…..Section I

No person shall be elected to the Office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of the President, or acted as President, for more than 2 years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office more than once. But this article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this article was proposed by Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of the President, or acting as President, during the term within which this article become operative from holding the office of the President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.

Section II reads.....

This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an Amendment to the Constitution be the legislatures of three-fourths of the several States within seven(7) years from the date of its submission to the States by the Congress.

In other words, any President who has served 2-4 year terms, cannot run for a 3rd 4 year term. Trump cannot invalidate the 22nd Amendment because even the US Supreme Court must abide by it.

When Gerald Ford assumed the office of the President when Nixon resigned in August of 1974, Ford then was able to Constitutionally run for 2 terms once Nixon's term was completed. That would have been an example of this precedence as described in the Constitution.

[pangaia]

48. "Trump cannot invalidate the 22nd Amendment because even the US Supreme Court must abide by it. "

Surely you jest !...

I hear this idea again and again..
The constitution, rule of law, the courts will do this or that, we have checks and balances.... etc etc...

If things keep going as they are the constitution and the rule of law won't mean shit..
In fact, rather obviously, both are already being shredded... the 'rule of law' is already being broken and nothing happens....

Everybody--- EVERYBODY need to wake up. !!!!!

This is not Jerry Ford, or Nixon, or Reagun or even the McCarthy hearings, or whatever..


The Unites States is under attack by more than one foreign power with the complicit help of trump, his entire family and republican party.

There will be blood... somewhere, somehow...

[The Liberal Lion]

66. I agree with you

with the corruption of our judiciary, the criminal nature of this (false) administration as well as trump's daily trampling of the constitution the notion that we would be protected by said document if trump decided not to vacate the White House peacefully (that's assuming that Russia doesn't alter vote totals again) in case of a loss in the election is I think not really paying attention to what is happening. If trump losses the election, and certainly if our elections are fair he will lose and will lose by the biggest margin ever, trump knows his ass is going to jail. He doesn't have enough money personally to defend himself against the government, because in fact he's broke by way of being over leveraged. This man is not going to go quietly, nor will his supporters just simply fade into the woodwork. We are in a very dangerous position right now as the opposition and the resistance. More oughta recognize that.

[Bettie]

49. Even the Federalst Society has to abide by the US Constitution

until TPTB decide that they don't.

I suspect that Orange Hitler will eventually declare himself president for life and no one on the right will so much as blink.

[mr_lebowski]

52. If he declares himself President for Life, it doesn't necessarily violate the 22nd amendment

At least, not if there's no more 'elections'.

Such a declaration along with cancelling voting would violate other things in teh Constitution I'm sure, but not that one, not by the letter anyway. It speaks specifically to Elections, and if there ARE no elections ... then there are no 'terms' and hence the 22nd is moot.

[Ms. Toad]

70. His time in office is not fixed by the elections -

it is fixec by Article II, Section 1, Clause 1 of the constitution.

The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years . . .

So he can't get around the 8 year constitutional limitation by figuring out some way to avoid elections.

[mr_lebowski]

81. I'm thinking the most he could possibly serve constitutionally is 10 years ...

Even if he were to get rid of elections, the 22nd does set a hard limit at 10 years total time served as POTUS.

Course, if he gets rid of elections, the Constitution is already knackered, so ...

[Ms. Toad]

84. The hard limit is 8 years (2 terms - each mandated by the constitution at 4 years).

The 10 years is an exception to the 8 year limit and does not apply to him, since he was not serving the uncompleted end of Obama's term. So his personal max is 8 years.

Elections have nothing to do with fixed four-year terms recited in the constitution, or the two-term limit (i.e.2 x 4 years) in the amendments.

[mr_lebowski]

85. Not to bicker over this as it's not that important but technically by the letter ...

I would disagree.

To many people's surprise, the 22nd doesn't actually mention a '2 term limit'.

The 22nd specifically says you can't be ELECTED more than 2 times, and you can't serve more than 10 years total. I agree, the 10 year thing was meant as an 'exception' for the cause you specify. But it also doesn't say explicitly how those 10 years must be reached.

Here's some more details, albeit meant to address a different subject ...

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/former-president-becomes-vice-president/

The crux of the amendment goes as follows:

No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.

[Ms. Toad]

86. You're ignoring the constitution itself.

A presidential "term" is fixed by Article II, Section 1, Clause 1 of the constitution.

The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and together with the Vice President, chosen for the same term, be elected as follows: . . .

So he can't get around the 8 year constitutional two-term limitation by figuring out some way to avoid elections.

"Two years of a term" to which some other person was elected President refers to the previously defined term, "Term" - which is fixed by Article II.

So he can have his two elected terms (each 4 years, pursuant to Article II, Section 1), and the potential for an additional two years comes only if he takes over ffrom another elected president (which doesn't apply).

You can't read one section of the constitution without ignoring prior provisons that define the terms used in the later provisios

[mr_lebowski]

88. No elections, no violation of the 22nd Amendment ...

It DOES NOT SAY 'there is a two-term limit'. It says ... what I posted above. 'May not be elected > 2 times'.

Now, not HAVING the elections in the first place, as you suggest, would violate Article 2. But this discussion is premised on the idea that 'this has already happened'. Elections were somehow cancelled.

If they WERE ... the 22nd would, by letter, not be violated, because all it says ... is 'may not be ELECTED >2 times'.

That's my point.

[Ms. Toad]

89. Article II is where the election requirement is.

And where term (used in the 22nd amendment) comes from.

Term is used to define the period remaining from a previously elected president. A term, per Article II is 4 years. That meas the added period is limited to less than 2 years (Amendment XXII) of a 4 year term (Article II).

So the added portion of a 4-year term (Article II) must be less than 2 years (Amendment XXII).

Election is the mechanism by which the the executive power is chosen to serve for a four year term. (Article II), so when Amendment XXII refers to election, it is referring to the previously defined use of the word election - as the means the executive power is chosen to serve for 4 years.

You are looking solely at the XXII amendment, in isolation. The constitution (and contracts, and any other legal document) can't be read that way. Terms defined early in the document have the same meaning every subsequent time they are used.

[mr_lebowski]

90. This argument is kinda silly in the first place, because he cannot cancel elections ...

Per Article 2.

But if he somehow COULD, it could be argued that the concept of 'terms' would be rendered meaningless. With no mechanism to determine the next President, what would a 'term' even mean? If he cancelled the 2020 election somehow, he would be in violation of Article 2 come Jan-whatever, 2021, as he would have exceeded his 'elected term'.

Right? So at THAT moment, The Constitution is basically out the window.

So it's kinda silly to argue that the 22nd would somehow save us, especially when it specifically refers to elections ... which aren't happening in our hypothetical scenario.

Can we agree on this and call it a day?

[Ms. Toad]

91. I just don't get why the unambiguous language of Article 2

is posing such a challenge. The duration of a term is 4 years.

You are correct that if he somehow cancels elections he would be in violation of the constitution (and the literalists in the Supreme Court would smack him silly). Then we'd be where we were when the Supreme Court told him he couldn't put the citizenship question on the census. He'd grumble, put on a big show, then slink off into the sunset.

[Texin]

68. How well did that turn out last time the SCOTUS were called on to referee the election?

Not so good. I'm liking democracy's chances even less in this sinister scenario now.

[Bradical79]

87. Like he'd listen to them at that point...

No one needs the Supreme Court to tell us he can't do that. There's zero argument to be made.

If he just declares himself dictator for life, he'd be dragged out by force when the new President takes over. If he weren't removed, then we'd likely be transitioned to a full Fascist dictatorship + civil war.

[First Speaker]

2. What would happen? God knows...but I don't think this scenario is impossible...

...he is clearly capable of this, if he loses the election, or fears he will. I am not reassured by the constitutional scholars here at DU who accuse us of paranoia every time the subject comes up. A man who calls himself "The Chosen One" is quite capable of deciding for himself what the "national will" is, and to hell with elections. If something like this seems even plausible come November, 2020...who knows what will happen. How will the GOP establishment react? The Supreme Court? The military? The media? People in the street? Our constitutional checks-and-balances have been seriously weakened these past three years. Are they ready to snap? I know one thing--I never want to hear the word "paranoid" again. Not after The Second Coming and The Chosen One...

[pangaia]

14. He will do anything. and nothing will happen to stop him.... You are NOT paranoid..

It is REPUBLICANS who are screwing the USA !!!!!!!!!
Fucking REPUBLICANS !!!

[Bettie]

55. I liked it better when a post like this got

everyone saying 'never going to happen'.

When I believed that I was paranoid by myself.

[jalan48]

3. I think it would more likely follow the scenario where Trump declares a national emergency because

of some made up "crisis" and then suspends the 2020 election until the "crisis" is over.

[htuttle]

5. Since we've always held elections, even when we were in a world war

...it will be hard to sell that case.

Not sure what the outcome would be, but I expect few would just accept it.

[pangaia]

15. It doesn't matter how many accept it or not.

Without REPUBLICANS doing something, he gets away with it..

[jberryhill]

32. States run elections. The federal government doesn't

[pangaia]

34. I know, I know.... I stand by my............. fear

[True Blue American]

39. We had 3 elections during WW 2

I can not see that happening.

Trump is falling apart at the seams now.

Did anyone see Trump grip Melania’s hand, pulling her along, causing her to stumble in those 4 inch heels? I would hate to see what he is doing in private.

[Ilsa]

40. What video was that? Leaving the WH yesterday, or

at an event?

[True Blue American]

44. The video I saw was Trump holding so called PC

On the lawn. He berated Jim Sciutti, attacked Obama, blamed him for Russia being ejected from the GH, wants them back in, proclaimed himself the Chosen one,while looking at the sky, said Jews loved him and more. Considers Jews think he is the second coming when they do not accept the first one. ranted about Denmark. Claimed the economy is strong.

And I just heard some of his rants. Staff in the WhiteHouse are getting worried.

[jberryhill]

41. We had a presidential election in the middle of a civil war

[pangaia]

59. During WW2 we did not have a traitorous republican party trying to take down democracy

i mean there were very active right wingers. but.....

[struggle4progress]

4. Street fighting man

[LuckyCharms]

42. +1. n/t

[struggle4progress]

7. Song of the French Partisan

[burrowowl]

75. The Song is not loading

It was written by an American woman, she died a few years ago.l had friends who were in the resistance. I also love the international c’est la lute finale

[struggle4progress]

8. Song of the leaders

[safeinOhio]

9. Every single day he gets worse, but

we ain't seen nutting yet...

[Celerity]

36. +10000

He is capable of ANYTHING.

Unstable as fuck, completely amoral, is under the cosh legally (especially post-presidency), is paranoid/narcissistic to an extraordinary extreme, utterly intoxicated with raw power, is Commander in Chief of the most powerful military in world history, and has a huge cog (the US Senate) of the American constitutional government's superstructure in his back pocket.

[struggle4progress]

10. Die Edelweisspiraten

... There was a freight train with war supplies and weapons. And what else is needed for genocide?
They started to work on the tracks. The train never reached its destination ...

[struggle4progress]

12. El pueblo unido jamas sera vencido

[spanone]

13. We will have to take to the streets if our government fails us.

Hope we're up to it.

[yuiyoshida]

17. IF we had crowds as large as those in the protests in

Hong Kong, he would take notice especially if the White House was surrounded.

[spanone]

20. I hope it doesn't come to that....

[Eliot Rosewater]

28. GOP might take notice. GOP care about one thing, reelection and stealing our tax dollars.

If we make it clear they will not be reelected, shit will happen.

But too many of our population love rump and his fascism.

[certainot]

64. don't need that, just need the right kind of offense. the only unique advantage trump has

is the republican talk radio monopoly that follows limbaugh's/putin's lead and keeps the gop in line. that's what they're afraid of, not trump.

the diehard trump base is a small minority but like the teabags (they are all dittoheads) they have 1500 radio stations blowing in their sails, feeding, coordinating, and amplifying the crap that's increasingly coming from the kremlin the last decade. the radio propaganda operation also depends on an apathetic and too-busy secondary audience and until the left/dems stop ignoring it media's going to let them keep pretending they're significant. when they poll they need to poll for talk radio too, to isolate that bunch of idiots. they need to see boycotts and protests aimed at their rw radio gods and stations and the 88 universities that support those stations

it's ripe to destroy. as soon as americans start using artificial intelligence-enhanced transcription to digitize talk radio to any extent, the radio advertising industry will have to anticipate stoprush x 100 and start asking clients if they really actually want to support trump, global warming denial, and racism before putting them on those stations.

true demand for that crap is minimal and the monopoly will fall apart. a lot of republicans know they'd lose without those stations helping them get elected. and any republicans ready to cross trump know limbaugh and sons will attack them if they do. seeing the blowhards on defense will embolden them.

and without all those talk radio stations covering for and providing material for trump he and his supporters would generally be a lot more vulnerable.

[Mr.Bill]

72. Radio stations are not military fortresses.

A handful of people can put a radio station out of commission.

[certainot]

77. unless the zombies took over, digitizing it and boycotts and

maybe protests at universities are all it would take

[handmade34]

29. it is already failing us

and we ain't doing a damn thing...

we desperately need an extremely charismatic person to get us motivated to protest in droves, go to the streets and STAY in the streets until something happens

[CrispyQ]

58. Like we did for the kids in cages?

I'm as guilty as everyone else. I simply don't know what to do other than to call members of Congress who represent me or are up for re-election. I don't have the support system or the financial wherewithal to travel to the border or to DC, & protest for however long it might take. I don't know how much of a difference a one day massive march makes. The media will downplay it & everyone goes back to their lives the next day, fired up & feeling good, but nothing changed. And how effective is local activism? So what if some people honk their horn at you on a street corner while you wave a sign. We have a two-party system & one side has abandoned all rules & tradition.

I'll repeat, I don't know what to do & I feel like a Good German. I guess we still have too much to lose?

[struggle4progress]

16. Song of the United Front

[yuiyoshida]

18. Hey thanks for this

and the kicks

[struggle4progress]

19. Sasol

... They have no place to hide, because we are everywhere ...

[struggle4progress]

21. Resistir Sara Curruchich

... Don't let your dreams die! May your light never go out ...

[superpatriotman]

22. Oh, we'll come up with some new chants

Hey-hey, ho-ho...

And our Democratic leaders will write some strongly-worded memos.

The lethargy from years of gaslighting has now set in.

[Kid Berwyn]

23. Citizens' Arrest. Nothing would stop We the People.

Mass movement in Washington. Round them all up. Charge them all with treason. Put them all on trial. Those convicted — with KGB funding the NRA in behalf of the GOP that should be damn all of them — go to prison.

[kacekwl]

24. Must send him a strongly worded message.

Then sit back and wait.

[Eliot Rosewater]

27. This comment implies the Democratic party can do more than they are.

Like what, impeachment that will fail?

I am for impeachment, but what can they do when the Justice dept refuses to obey the law?

[kacekwl]

37. We have gone over this before.

Impeachment does not have to end with conviction by the Senate to succeed.

[Wounded Bear]

25. Hopefully his SS detail follows the dictates of their oath...

to protect and defend the Constitution above their job to "protect" the President.

[Eliot Rosewater]

26. He wont do that, the KGB is hacking the voting system now, unless we win by more than 60%

it will be hacked like last time.

[yuiyoshida]

31. You are probably right..

and our government could block them but Trump won't have it, he is in it for HIS own greed and he wants to be worshipped by his base.

We may have already Seen Democracy Set Sail for the Horizon.

[iloveObama12]

35. It's something everyday with this idiot!

[world wide wally]

43. I'm going to open a torch & pitchfork shop

[True Blue American]

45. You might want to order a couple

Gross of these, too.

[GreenEyedLefty]

47. I guess it would be time to revisit history and plan a Revolution.

Our government is in place by consent of the governed... we are not powerless.

[bucolic_frolic]

50. I think the US military plays a role

they are the rank and file that fought for our system of government, and the Generals are not going to support a non-coup coup d'etat.

But the extremism ... I don't think it's about a life term anymore, it's about using power while they have it and it's only going to get worse.

[FiveGoodMen]

56. I think they'd be our only hope

And I'm not at all sure which side they'd take.

[Still In Wisconsin]

53. I could see Trump using nuclear weapons against American citizens.

I believe he would and will do ANYTHING to stay in power.

[roamer65]

74. If he uses nukes, the we storm the WH.

[Still In Wisconsin]

79. Then you better hope his Secret Service detail is loyal to the US Constitution

above Trump.

[ElementaryPenguin]

54. Storm the Bastille.

[yuiyoshida]

71. sorry..couldn't resist

[malthaussen]

57. As Mr Locke would say...

... we make our appeal to Heaven.

Your question basically parses to asking what we can do if the entire Tinkertoy system breaks down. When a total systemic failure occurs, there is no means within the system to rectify it.

I still doubt it will come to that, but an indeterminate question does not have a determinate answer.

-- Mal

[azureblue]

60. He's so crazy

we should get him a nice room in an asylum, put in a high back chair, give him a scepter and a robe and tell that he is now king.

[CrispyQ]

61. I've been asking for awhile if the dems or anyone has a Plan B.

We are going to need massive turnout & margins to overcome the rigging. IMO, we need impeachment hearings all next summer. Even local Sinclair stations will cover impeachment, whereas I doubt they are covering any of the other investigations of Trump. Let people watch the moron-in-chief word-salad his way through simple questions. Let them hear him contradict himself over and over, often within a few minutes. Hang all his dirty deeds out on the laundry line for the six & ten o'clock news to cover. Reveal him for the toxic sludge he is.

[WinstonSmith4740]

62. Here's what I'll be doing.

And I bet I'll be among the millions of Americans for whom enough will be enough. Enough of the people that voted for him the first time have already walked away. This would get all but the most rabid of them to see the light.

[k55f]

69. While you're inside wondering who started the fire...

[Wawannabe]

63. What happens next

Can’t be said/written on a message board.

[JPPaverage]

65. If your scenario occured

I believe there will be a military coup. Just a feeling I have
I think we're on the verge of that happening right now since Congress isnt doing anything and apparently won't.

[The Liberal Lion]

67. I think the question is not "what could we do"

But rather "we know what we must do in such a scenario, will we do it"

[roamer65]

73. We the people will need to remove him.

Simple as that.

[Ferrets are Cool]

76. I am more concerned to wake one morning and find out that he has

ordered a nuclear attack on some country.

[Still In Wisconsin]

80. What if he orders a nuclear attack on, I dunno...

Mexico? California? Delaware?

It's Trump we're talking about here.

[Ferrets are Cool]

83. IKR

You cant predict what a madman will do.

[NCLefty]

78. No one knows. That's why you don't elect mental patients. :p

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

82. People here made dire predictions that Bush II would cancel the 2004 election

rather than risk losing it.

That was a dumb prediction then, and the "prediction" that Trump will declare himself President for Life or cancel elections or refuse to vacate the White House when his time is over are equally dumb.