Vegan parents who left baby girl malnourished avoid jail.

[EX500rider]

"An Australian couple who put their baby daughter on a strict vegan diet that left her severely malnourished have avoided serving a jail sentence.
The couple in their 30s, who cannot be named, were sentenced to an 18-month jail term which will be served as a community order. The girl, now three, was so malnourished she looked like a three-month-old at 19 months.

She was fed a diet of oats, potatoes, toast and rice among others.
The child was found with no teeth when she was taken into care earlier last year.

At a sentencing at Sydney's Downing Centre Court on Thursday, Judge Sarah Huggett criticised the parents for putting her on a "completely inadequate" diet.

"This child was severely malnourished, underweight and undersized and delayed as far as age-appropriate milestones were concerned," said the judge."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-49430857

[Wounded Bear]

1. So breast milk is not "vegan" enough?

[Cartoonist]

3. Vegan is not enough

Millions of years of evolution has made us omnivores like it or not.

[Wounded Bear]

4. With you there. I'm with PETA...

People for Eating of Tasty Animals.

[PoliticAverse]

5. It's an "animal product". n/t

[Blue_true]

13. Now, if Vegans believe that, I am truly sorry for them. nt

[Codeine]

25. We do not.

Most vegans are huge proponents of all kids getting breast milk, often for longer than most people nurse their children. Both the vegan little’uns I know breastfed until they were like four or so. (Weird to me, but I’m a 70s formula baby, so what do I know?)

[Blue_true]

26. I have heard of women breastfeeding six year olds.

The concept is the kid will stop eating breast milk when he or she is ready to. I don't see any issue with the practice.

[Sapient Donkey]

29. I am not a Vegan, but as far as I tell there are none (or at least very few) who believe that

Usually when I see that mentioned it's coming from a non-vegan either asking questions or making a strawman argument as sort of gotcha. I looked around a lot and could not find any vegans make a legitimate claim like that. I've seen some vegans make videos joking about it, but nothing serious.

[Crunchy Frog]

32. I recall a case a few years ago with a really idiotic vegan couple

Who were feeling their daughter soy milk (not formula) rather than breastmilk because they thought it wasn't vegan. The kid was malnourished almost to the point of death.

The vast majority of vegans don't think that way, but a very small number do.

[obamanut2012]

14. Breast milk is fine for vegans

These people were not vegans, they were uneducated idiots.

[Codeine]

2. There are a million nutritious vegan options

to provide a nourishing diet to a child. I know two beautiful, healthy, bright children being raised on a plant-based diet and they’re absolutely thriving.

These two people are fucking morons. “Oats, potatoes, toast, and rice.” That’s a nutritional black hole.

[Blue_true]

15. You make a good point.

They seem ignorant more than anything else. They should have taken time to study what a infant's nutritional requirements are and how they can meet those requirements and still adhere to a vegan diet.

It is easy enough to become deficient of critical vitamins. I recently found out that I was deficient in a vitamin that I assumed I took in plenty of. I now take a supplement and have made some changes in my diet.

[Codeine]

19. I think a lot of people

would be surprised by the nutritional deficiencies in their diet. Many of us miss one or more micronutrients without realizing it.

[Blue_true]

21. My annual physical requires bloodwork.

That is how I found out. I knew that I had a deficiency in Calcium, because I consume few foods that are rich in it and my work keeps me out of the sun.

[malaise]

24. That simple

Fucking morons - what they did to their own child is unforgiveable

[Doremus]

6. I don't know the facts of this case but it's entirely possible to sustain a healthy life

on oats, rice and potatoes.

All 3 contain all the nutrients we need with the exception of B12 which should have been supplemented for the child.

This fallacy that an adequate diet requires meat and dairy shows the lack of knowledge of those who espouse it.

[MineralMan]

8. So, is human breast milk non-vegan?

Even if the human is the baby's parent? There is a disconnect here.

[Doremus]

11. Of course not. Cow milk is for baby cows. Human breast milk is for baby humans.

Where does this notion that human breast milk isn't vegan come from??

[Blue_true]

16. Those foods are adequate ONLY if a person is fed the whole food.

Of the three oats as it is comes the closest to being whole in the form we consume it. If potatoes are eaten without the peel, it is not whole. Most rice is hyper-processed and is nutrient poor.

A person does not have to eat meat and diary to be whole on diet, but that person also can't stick his or her head up the ass like the parents did. They should have consulted practicing vegans who had raised or are raising kids, don't look like they did.

[Codeine]

23. I would add a lot of leafy greens

and some healthy fat sources to that, as well as some protein-dense items like lentils, peas, or garbanzos — along with breast milk, of course. Growing bones need calcium and developing brains need healthy fats and proteins, all of which are easily supplied in a vegan diet.

[MineralMan]

7. No breast milk? Because it's an animal product?

How strange that seems to me. Veganism taken to it's illogical conclusion...

[Blue_true]

17. The parents sound more like fanatics than vegans. nt

[Codeine]

20. I know a lot of vegans

and they’re universally proponents of breastfeeding their children. These people aren’t representative of regular vegans or even fanatic vegans, they’re just low-grade imbeciles.

[Sapient Donkey]

30. They don't sound like the brightest bulbs

Makes me wonder if their own vegan diets were not giving them the nutrition the mother needed to produce the milk. Not saying vegan diets in general do that, but rather poor diets in general by people who simply don't know what they are doing.

[MineralMan]

33. Yes. That particular couple were wackos.

I knew another couple who tried to make their cat a vegan cat. It died. So much for caring for other animals' lives.

Most vegans are much more sensible. I've cooked for vegans many times.

I draw the line, though at gluten-free vegans. They'll have to eat somewhere else.

[Codeine]

34. Man, gluten free would be the end of me.

I buy gluten in bulk!

[MineralMan]

35. I agree. If I have to cook vegan,

I depend on things like Mock Duck and other gluten preparations. The texture's the thing, really. I can prepare a great meal without it, of course, but it simplifies the process.

My black bean and shiitake mushroom burger or loaf is killer. Massive umami content for taste satisfaction and the mushrooms have a great texture, plus a sheet of nori in the middle holds it all together nicely. My seasoning mix is a closely guarded secret, though.

[hunter]

9. That's not "vegan," that's child abuse.

A child who was fed only fast food hamburger patties and chicken "nuggets" would be in similarly bad shape. Or dead.

Humans require a variety of foods and nutrients. Achieving the proper balance of nutrients, even excluding meat and dairy products, isn't especially difficult. It's a skill everyone should learn as a child.

It irritates me that meat cultists think their diets are somehow easier to prepare and more nutritious than vegan diets.

Preparing meat properly is a hassle. Personally, I haven't had any raw poultry in my kitchen for many years. It's gross and I hate cleaning up afterwards. Cooking something like lentils is a lot easier.

I don't expect our dogs to be vegetarian, but their food requires no preparation. I buy it in big bags at Costco.

[Blue_true]

18. I prepare chicken in 15 minutes, very little cleanup.

It actually takes more time and effort to prepare vegetables and fruit, but I put in the time because both are needed.

A BALANCED diet that does include meat has been shown over and over to be the easiest way to get all needed nutrients. A person that does not eat a balanced diet, be they are meat-only people or vegans, have to think more about what they select to eat to insure adequate nutrient intake.

[hunter]

27. Who taught you how to prepare meat?

You generally don't eat it raw right out of the package.

And how is that any different than teaching a child how to prepare a healthy vegan diet?

A mix of whole grains, legumes, and nuts is a perfectly adequate source of well balanced proteins. Traditional cuisines in cultures where meat was not abundant all reflect this.

I don't think your prep times count.

You are not starting with a chicken that was running around in your back yard five minutes ago.

The chicken you buy at the grocery store has been already been prepared in every way but cooking it and chopping it into bite sized pieces.

All the hard work has been done by machines and some poor workers in a poultry processing plant.

I've killed, prepared, cooked and eaten animals I've seen alive, mostly fish, but I haven't been hunting or eaten any farm animals I've known in this 21st century. Maybe because I'm lazy.

My lunch today was brown rice, beans, some walnuts toasted in olive oil, half a yellow bell pepper, and some salsa one of my father-in-law's friends made.

It would have been especially good with a Arrogant Bastard Ale but, like meat, I don't so indulge most days of the week.

[Blue_true]

28. You did not get the brown rice, beans, walnuts or olive oil from your backyard.

Someone, likely paid a lot less than you, harvested or prepared them.

I am not against a vegan diet, I am against lecturing people and using one-sided comparisons (i.e., the chicken that I buy is made by near slaves in a factory, but the rice, beans, walnuts, peppers, olive oil somehow come from higher sources).

My diet works well for me, I have only two deficiencies, one that I knew about, the other because I don't regularly eat beef or consume eggs, mushrooms and dairy products, I take a vegan supplement for that because I happened to have it around for other uses.

[hunter]

31. The chickens eat much the same as I do.

I'm just skipping the inefficient conversion of chicken feed to bird meat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feed_conversion_ratio

[Blue_true]

36. I get your point on the conversion.

If we are going to keep enough trees on earth to sustain us, we can't be converting large amounts of wild land to crop land. But, I see tower farming emerging as a solution to that dilemma, it would dramatically reduce the amount of land needed to raise plants and animals and would allow for CO2 capture from animals, but it has it's own downsides too.

Unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of people on earth are carnivores (or eat a mixture of animals and plant food). I don't see that changing.

Animals that were used for food used to eat a wild diet until farmers found that they could rush them to market by limiting their movement and feeding them processed grains. Even up into the early 20th century people ate wild rabbit, squirrels (I am more far, far more likely to feed them chocolate and walnuts than eat the little pricks - they love chocolate), deer, opposum, ect. Those animals foraged for food in the wild so there was not the issue of using food that people could use on feeding the animals, their meat was leaner also.

[pansypoo53219]

10. vegan should be a CHOICE when the kid is older. not forced on kids. but then my uncle + aunt in nyc

are macro neurotics.

[hunter]

12. Eating meat should be a CHOICE when the kid is older. not forced on kids.

See how that works both ways?

Children follow the diets of the families they are raised by.

So do sea otters.

Sea otters consume a wide variety of benthic invertebrates. Prey items include sea urchins, abalone, crabs, mussels, clams, marine snails, marine worms, sea stars, and squid. In total, otters eat at least 50 species of benthic (bottom-dwelling) invertebrates, although individuals tend to specialize on only a few main prey types. Prey specialization and feeding preferences are passed on from mother to pup.

https://seaotters.com/sea-otter-natural-history/

If I was raising children again I'd do a few things differently. My wife and I generally followed family traditions, including the idea that children should drink milk, which is sort of absurd since both my wife and her dad are lactose intolerant. I lost any patience I might have had for the factory-farm dairy industry about the time our children were teens. They already preferred soy milk to cow's milk by then. We also served meat for dinner more often than not, plenty of the usual U.S.A. ground beef recipes like spaghetti with sauces from jars.

Our extended family ranges from vegans to hunting-fishing carnivores. I don't think its much of a challenge to provide for all at family dinners, and nobody is militant about their dietary choices.

My own goal these days is to minimize my environmental footprint. I don't eat meat most days, nor do I reject meat or fish served by others. That's how I'd raise my children today. If they chose not to eat meat like their mom, they'd still be learning how to make nutritious vegan or vegetarian meals.

[Codeine]

22. I know a couple of vegan kids.

They’re both far healthier than their age cohort; veganism is not a big deal. Every parent should take care to ensure their kids are eating nutritious foods, and in my experience vegan parents are far more observant and careful than omni parents, most of whom let their children eat little more than garbage.