General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWTF is he talking about here?
Link to tweet
I don't speak Trump so I don't know why any car manufacturer would cut $3,000 off the price of cars because reasons? Just seriously... WTF???
Cartoonist
(7,314 posts)I thought it was about car manufacturers willing to abide by California emission standards. Trump wants to end all regulations thinking it would make them cheaper.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,661 posts)Trump singled out Ford Motor in particular for backing a deal with California for stricter fuel economy standards.
Ford said in a statement that it is focused on acting to protect the environment while also protecting the affordability of vehicles. This agreement with California provides regulatory stability while reducing CO2 more than complying with two different standards, it said.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/22/trump-attacks-ford-motor-for-not-backing-fuel-economy-rollback.html
Initech
(100,060 posts)Dealing a blow to California and to Obama at the same time? I bet he would love that.
dawg day
(7,947 posts)Not to mention corporate independence... some GOPer.... all for government interference in corporate decisions.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)...meet the California emission standards.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/30/automakers-sidestep-trump-by-cutting-deals-with-california-colorado.html
By cutting deals with California and Colorado, automakers sidestep Trump administration
DonaldsRump
(7,715 posts)no_hypocrisy
(46,075 posts)hunter
(38,309 posts)His words have no more meaning than that.
treestar
(82,383 posts)that the Dotard ever does.
spanone
(135,816 posts)Celerity
(43,294 posts)Trump Invokes Anti-Semite Henry Ford After Accusing Jewish Democrats Of Disloyalty
The president mentioned the founder of Ford Motor Co., who frequently used his platform to spread anti-Semitic messages across the country and the world.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-anti-semite-henry-ford-jewish-democrats-disloyal_n_5d5e0080e4b02cc97c882326
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)And the first automobile was Jewish?
Celerity
(43,294 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Hitler and his thugs tried to wipe out every mention of him from German society, even went to a museum that had the first car to destroy it. The museum people got wind of the visit and managed to hide the car behind a false wall.
On edit:
Siegfried Marcus was the inventor of the automobile and he was Jewish. The Nazis tried to erase his accomplishment from history by putting forth Daimler and Benz as the inventors of the automobile (they were the most successful mass producers).
The internal combustion engine was invented by a Belgian named Jean Etienne and later perfected by a German named Nikolaus Otto (invented the first fuel-air stroke engine).
Celerity
(43,294 posts)in a process of development that gradually occurred in France and England starting around 1678 (Abbé Hautefeuille) and culminating right before 1800.
http://www3.eng.cam.ac.uk/DesignOffice/projects/cecil/history.html
The Cannons
The earliest attempts to obtain motive power from heat were made by igniting flammable powder, and utilising the force of the explosion thus generated. As a source of energy, combustible powder was the first agent used: it preceded the production of coal gas, or steam. Strictly speaking, cannons are the oldest heat motors, and the principles on which they are constructed are identical with those of the internal combustion engine.
Abbé Hautefeuille - 1678
The first person to propose the use of explosive powder to obtain power was Abbé Hautefeuille, the son of the baker in Orleans. To him belongs the honour of designing, not only the first engine worthy of the name, but the first machine using heat as a motive force, and capable of producing a definite quantity of continuous work. As such, he may be considered one of the originators of heat motors. In 1678, he suggested the construction of a powder motor to raise water. As the gases cooled after combustion, a partial vacuum was formed, and the water was raised by atmospheric pressure from the reservoir.
Huygens-Papin - 1680
Hautefeuille does not seem to have actually constructed the machines he designed; but Huygens, who was the first, in 1680, to employ a cylinder and a piston, constructed a working engine, and exhibited it to Colbert, the French Minister of Finance. The powder in this motor was ignited in a little receptacle screwed on to the bottom of a cylinder. The latter was immediately filled with flame, and the air in it was driven out through leather tubes, which by their expansion acted momentarily as valves. The piston was forced by the pressure of the atmosphere into the vacuum thus formed. This is the action shown in atmospheric gas engines, but Huygens had difficulty in getting his valves to act properly, and in 1690 Papin attempted to improve upon his principle.
Barber - 1791
For more than 100 years after these early attempts, all the efforts of scientific men and inventors were directed to the study of steam, and its applications to produce power. At that time there was no other known agent that could compete with it. Gas extracted from coal had not yet been applied as a motive force in engines, and experience had shown that explosive powders were too dangerous, and too intermittent in their action, to be used with safety. The first to design and construct an actual gas engine was John Barber, who took out a patent (No. 1833) in 1791. Barber made the gas required for his engine from wood, coal, oil, or other substances, heated in a retort, from whence the gases obtained were conveyed into a receiver and cooled. A pump next forced them, mixed in proper proportion with atmospheric air, into a vessel termed the "Exploder". Here they were ignited, and the mixture issued out in a continuous stream of flame against the vanes of a paddle wheel, driving them round with great force. Water was also injected into the explosive mixture to cool the mouth of the vessel, and, by producing steam, to increase the volume of the charge. Barber's engine exhibits in an elementary form, the principle of what is now known as combustion at constant pressure, but it had neither piston nor cylinder.
Street - 1794
The next engine, invented by Robert Street, and for which he took out a patent (No 1983) in 1794, was a great advance. Inflammable gas was exploded in a cylinder and drove up a piston by its expansion, thus producing the first example of a practical internal combustion engine. The gas was obtained by sprinkling spirits of turpentine or petroleum at the bottom of a cylinder, and evaporating them by a fire beneath. The up-stroke of the piston admitted a certain quantity of air, which mixed with the inflammable vapour. A flame was next sucked in from a light outside the cylinder, through a valve uncovered by the piston, and forced down the piston of a pump for raising water. In this engine many modern ideas were foreshadowed, especially the ignition by an external flame, and the admission of air by the suction of the piston during the up-stroke, but mechanical details were crude and imperfect.
Lebon - 1801
A great improvement in the practical application of gas engines was made by Philippe Lebon, a French engineer, who obtained a patent in 1799 and a second in 1801. The first was intended to describe the production of flammable coal gas : in the latter he proposed to utilise this gas to drive a piston in an engine very similar to that designed by Lenoir, sixty years later. The flammable gas and "sufficient air to make it ignite" were introduced separately into the cylinder on both sides of the piston, and the inventor proposed to fire the mixture by an electric spark. The machine was double acting, and the explosions of gas took place alternately on each side of the piston. The most striking peculiarity of the engine was the piston-rod, working not only the motor shaft, but through it two pumps, in which the gas and air were compressed, before they entered the motor cylinder.
snip
The Rev. W. Cecil's Engine - 1820
http://www3.eng.cam.ac.uk/DesignOffice/projects/cecil/engine.html
In 1820, the Rev. W. Cecil wrote a paper entitled: "On the application of hydrogen gas to produce a moving power in machinery; with a description of an engine which is moved by pressure of the atmosphere upon a vacuum caused by explosions of hydrogen gas and atmospheric air." In this document, he explains how to use the energy of hydrogen to power an engine and how the hydrogen engine could be built.
How does it work...?
The principle:
The general principle of this engine is founded upon the property, which hydrogen gas mixed with atmospheric air possesses, of exploding upon ignition, so as to produce a large imperfect vacuum. If two and a half measures, by volume, of atmospheric air are mixed with one measure of hydrogen, and a flame applied, the mixed gas will expand into a space rather greater than three times its original volume.
The products of the expolsion are:
a globule of water, formed by the union of the hydrogen with the oxygen of the atmospheric air
and a quantity of nitrogen, which in its natural state (density=1) constitutes 0.556 of the mixed gas, by volume.
The same quantity of nitrogen is now expanded into a space somewhat greater than three times the original volume of the mixed gas; that is, into about six times the space which it previously occupied: its density relative to the atmosphere is therefore about 1/6. If the external air is prevented, by a proper apparatus, from returning into this imperfect vacuum, the pressure of the atmosphere may be employed as a moving force, nearly in the same manner as in a steam-engine: the difference being chiefly in the manner of forming the vacuum.
The strokes:
The first stroke is the intake. It starts when the piston is going down. At this moment, the rod sweeps across with a rapid angular motion carrying the lever, and thus the plug to the right.
By this motion:
the vertical cylinder will be separated from the horizontal cylinders
the small ports will be opened, admitting the atmospheric air freely into the horizontal cylinders
and the mouth of the pipe will be opened to the inside of the cube, i. e. to the cylinder.
As the piston begins to descend, the atmospheric air will rush in at the air valve, which opens spontaneously and will occupy whatever portion of the cylinder is relinquished by the descent of the piston.
snip
History of the internal combustion engine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_internal_combustion_engine#Prior_to_1860
Various scientists and engineers contributed to the development of internal combustion engines. In 1791, John Barber developed a turbine. In 1794 Thomas Mead patented a gas engine. Also in 1794 Robert Street patented an internal combustion engine, which was also the first to use the liquid fuel (petroleum) and built an engine around that time. In 1798, John Stevens designed the first American internal combustion engine.
snip
Prior to 1860
202 BCE220 CE: The earliest hand-operated cranks appeared in China during the Han Dynasty.
3rd century CE: Evidence of a crank and connecting rod mechanism dates to the Hierapolis sawmill in Asia Minor (Turkey), then part of the Roman Empire.
6th century: Several sawmills use a crank and connecting rod mechanism in Asia Minor and Syria, then part of the Byzantine Empire.
9th century: The crank appears in the mid-9th century in several of the hydraulic devices described by the Banū Mūsā brothers in their Book of Ingenious Devices.
1206: Al-Jazari invented an early crankshaft, which he incorporated with a crank-connecting rod mechanism in his twin-cylinder pump. Like the modern crankshaft, Al-Jazari's mechanism consisted of a wheel setting several crank pins into motion, with the wheel's motion being circular and the pins moving back-and-forth in a straight line. The crankshaft described by al-Jazari transforms
continuous rotary motion into a linear reciprocating motion.
17th century: Samuel Morland experiments with using gunpowder to drive water pumps.
17th century: Christiaan Huygens designs gunpowder to drive water pumps, to supply 3000 cubic meters of water/day for the Versailles palace gardens, essentially creating the first idea of a rudimentary internal combustion piston engine.
1780s: Alessandro Volta built a toy electric pistol in which an electric spark exploded a mixture of air and hydrogen, firing a cork from the end of the gun.
1791: John Barber receives British patent #1833 for A Method for Rising Inflammable Air for the Purposes of Producing Motion and Facilitating Metallurgical Operations. In it he describes a turbine.
1794: Robert Street built a compressionless engine. He was also the first to use liquid fuel in an internal combustion engine.
1794: Thomas Mead patents a gas engine.
1798: John Stevens builds the first double-acting, crankshaft-using internal combustion engine.
1801: Philippe LeBon D'Humberstein comes up with the use of compression in a two-stroke engine.
1807: Nicéphore Niépce installed his "moss, coal-dust and resin" fueled Pyréolophore internal combustion engine in a boat and powered up the river Saône in France. A patent was subsequently granted by Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte on 20 July 1807.
1807: Swiss engineer François Isaac de Rivaz built an internal combustion engine powered by a hydrogen and oxygen mixture, and ignited by electric spark. (See 1780s: Alessandro Volta above.)
1823: Samuel Brown patented the first internal combustion engine to be applied industrially, the gas vacuum engine. The design used atmospheric pressure, and was demonstrated in a carriage and a boat, and in 1830 commercially to pump water to the upper level of the Croydon Canal.
1824: French physicist Sadi Carnot established the thermodynamic theory of idealized heat engines.
1826 April 1: American Samuel Morey received a patent for a compressionless "Gas or Vapor Engine." This is also the first recorded example of a carburetor.
1833: Lemuel Wellman Wright, UK patent no. 6525, table-type gas engine. Double-acting gas engine, first record of water-jacketed cylinder.
1838: A patent was granted to William Barnett, UK patent no. 7615 April 1838. According to Dugald Clerk, this was the first recorded use of in-cylinder compression.
18531857: Eugenio Barsanti and Felice Matteucci invented and patented an engine using the free-piston principle in an atmospheric two cycle engine.
1856: in Florence at Fonderia del Pignone (now Nuovo Pignone, later a subsidiary of General Electric), Pietro Benini realized a working prototype of the Italian engine supplying 5 HP. In subsequent years he developed more powerful engineswith one or two pistonswhich served as steady power sources, replacing steam engines.
1857: Eugenio Barsanti and Felice Matteucci describe the principles of the free piston engine where the vacuum after the explosion allows atmospheric pressure to deliver the power stroke (British patent no. 1625).
snip
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)The internal combustion engine was invented well before the automobile. But the first inventor of an engine that could drive cars was Jean Lenoir, whose invention was improved on by Nikolaus Otto.
The first gasoline powered internal combustion engine for automobiles and the first working automobile were invented by Siegfried Marcus in 1864. Marcus was a German-Jewish person. Marcus' design is basically how automobiles run today (with refinements to improve compression ratios and efficiency of air-gasoline combustion).
Celerity
(43,294 posts)cheers
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Some version existed long before the automobile internal combustion engine, but was done in sealed cylinders, Otto did the first atmospheric internal combustion engine and Marcus did the first automobile gas-air engine that is still the standard.
I didn't mind the length of your post, reading information like that triggers my own thinking process. I am an engineer and a carbon fuel-free automobile engine is one of my engineering interests and pursuits - so seeing detailed historical information on how things were done is important.
Celerity
(43,294 posts)2020 Harley-Davidson LiveWire Review: The Future of the Motorcycle?
https://gearpatrol.com/2019/08/21/2020-harley-davidson-livewire-review-the-future-of-the-motorcycle/
There it is, slung beneath a monolithic 15.5-kWh battery and shrouded in a polished cast-aluminum casing. Dubbed Revelation for obvious reasons, the electric motor powering the Harley-Davidson LiveWire represents a massive leap beyond the venerable internal combustion V-twin. The philosophical shift involved in refining the drivetrain was so significant, it required some nine years to develop and fine-tune the setup and calibration. As such, the motor is the visual and ideological centerpiece in the 549-pound LiveWire, a point of pride that aims to leave the 116-year-old brands woes behind and propel it fearlessly into the future.
Launched with a $29,799 pricetag that puts it in unabashed luxury-product territory, the LiveWire goes whole hog on the electrification theme. There are high-tech touch points baked in throughout: a touchscreen TFT display, a well-executed Harley-Davidson Connect app, a fresh-off-the-presses partnership with Electrify America, and two years of free charging at participating Harley-Davidson dealerships. But is the first-ever electron-powered Harley good enough to convert the old school cognoscenti, or is it a high-priced halo that will alienate eco conscious millennials?
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)require the continued burning of carbon based fuels to provide the electricity. My thought process is on an entirely new power source that will eliminate carbon fuel as the driver (it still would use electricity). That is all that I want to say about the concept.
Celerity
(43,294 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)But I believe it is almost infinitely more possible than fusion, because some of the seeds already exist in a primitive form that I believe can be improved on.
Yes, it has been a great discussion.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)by automakers. The asshole has flatout declared war on the environment.
Shrike47
(6,913 posts)There is usually some ridiculous basis, or article, or Fox talking head for his stupid claims, that he then distorts.
brush
(53,764 posts)We are screwed until he's out. And then we have to repair all the damage.
tblue37
(65,290 posts)vs. Obama era regulations, cars would all be $3000 cheaper.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,166 posts)They'll sell cars for what people will pay for them. It's called capitalism.
tblue37
(65,290 posts)Demovictory9
(32,445 posts)ecstatic
(32,681 posts)going on in the background that we're not aware of, some of which might involve treason, since some of what's going on includes secret talks with foreign leaders. He's also extremely angry and lashing out at everyone behind the scenes. The tweets are just a distraction from what's really going on.
stopbush
(24,395 posts)Whats a automaker to do? Build cars they cant sell in CA because they dont meet CA emission standards? Right.
Initech
(100,060 posts)I'll gladly pay that extra $3K on my next car and sleep easier at night!