An interesting exchange between John Heilemann & Nicolle Wallace on MSNBC RE: George W Bush

[Miles Archer]

Niccolle is absolutely one of the most consistent and vibrant anti-Trump voices on MSNBC. And, unlike some of the other hosts like Chuck Todd and Ari Melber, she doesn't seem to have many Republican guests on to "balance the scales." Although she has Joe Walsh on pleading his case right now, and to her credit, she isn't sipping his Kool-Aid, asking him "WHY should people believe you?" Walsh is also getting ripped to shreds following his segment.

She also worked for George W. Bush, and while she seldom mentions him on the show, she does on occasion, as a contrast to Trump. She may have left the Republican party (or has one foot out the door due to Trump, I'm not sure of her current status), but if and when the subject of GWB comes up, there is never criticism. He's mentioned as being light years away from Trump, and that's it.

Heilemann was discussing Trump as an "arsonist" in the G7 arena, and made a statement like (not an exact quote, but close enough):

"George W Bush was despised by many on the International stage, because they thought he was an idiot and a cowboy, and he was, but at least he respected the institutions that were in place..."

And as he said this, the camera went to Wallace, and while she didn't change her facial expression appreciably, she clearly went blank, and didn't seem to appreciate the comparison.

It's true, Bush certainly wasn't Trump, but we aren't in need of revisionist history. I was here, and active, on DU when he was president. I don't recall many, if any, posts in which we considered him to be anything other than an idiot or a cowboy (unless you want to include "Dick Cheney's puppet," of course.

That was it...nothing big, but Heilemann had a moment of brutal honesty, didn't hold back, and Nicolle didn't seem to enjoy it (nor did she respond directly to the Bush comparison).

[questionseverything]

1. wallace defended bush and the torture he allowed

directed even

if she will vote against trump now great but she is still evil

[katmondoo]

2. I protested Bush for the whole 8 years. Mostly the Iraq war and no one cared, tore up my signs

[maxsolomon]

4. "No one" cared?

Getting a little hyperbolic there.

I cared. Maybe a few others. Just maybe.

[Caliman73]

20. I don't think the katmondoo is talking about DU.

Sounds like the people around, didn't care about the protests and tore up signs on the property protesting Bush.

[BigmanPigman]

3. Wow, I listened and applauded David Jolly too.

They asked if he would vote for the Dem candidate since he is going on and on about how horrible the moron is. He said, "I'm not there yet" seeming like a hypocrite. Then Heileman brought up the racist things HE himself has said in the past as well as taking forever to realize tRump is a racist who loves Putin.

[Miles Archer]

6. Yeah, it took Helsinki for Walsh to "realize" who Trump is.

He also said "We got two judges."

The segment was a powerful one, but what stood out was casting Bush in the appropriate light. "Better than Trump" holds little meaning. It's impossible for me to conjure up anyone who's not "better than Trump," but that doesn't let any of them off the hook for their individual legacies.

[BigmanPigman]

9. How come no one is bringing Weld's name up?

I have heard him speak several times and for a GOP candidate I can honestly say that I like him. Walsh sucks compared to Weld.

[Miles Archer]

12. He was mentioned, somewhat in passing, on MTP after Wallace's show

Basically the fact that Walsh is full-blown Teabagger, while Weld is more "centrist / left." That seems to be the time his name comes up most these days, because cable news is devoting an unholy amount of time to giving Walsh a platform.

[BigmanPigman]

13. The media wants to stir things up when there is nothing to stir up sometimes.

Ratings/$$$. Reminds me of their "Mueller for entertainment" approach to Mueller testifying before Congress. It wasn't about what he said but how he looked and sounded.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

5. Eh. That's some interesting revisionist history, at least in the first term

Between ripping up Clinton treaties and agreements and attacking the UN when most of the body refused to support us on invading and occupying Iraq. The second (first) term, when he got rid of most of the neocons and sidelined Cheney some, he played a little nicer with the rest of the world, but he was not really much of an institutionalist. Better than Trump in most respects but that's an EXTREMELY low bar to clear and negates all of the awful things his (mis-)Administration did (sanctioning torture, anybody?)

[eleny]

7. Thanks, Miles

I don't trust the "ex" Republicans who leverage their anti-Trump stance into a new job. They were there building their Party in the direction where it is today. But now they're shocked and appalled like Captain Louis Renault. I especially resent it when they offer advice to Democrats. Imo, they can choke on it.

I'm glad Heilemann shoved some W reality up her snoot.

[Leith]

8. Thank you

These anti-chumpy rethugs did more than their part in getting the orange monstrosity into the White House. Unless they are prepared to face up to the rotten things they have done over the decades, they certainly CAN shove reality up their snoots and choke on it.

[rockfordfile]

10. Bush is a war criminal.

One of the things to do once a Democratic President is in the White House is to invite the Dixie Chicks.

[Caliman73]

21. 100% correct.

I think that because Trump is such an abrasive and disgusting person, people overlook just how bad Bush and Cheney were. We need to remember that they lied the US into a war that cost more than 3 trillion dollars, cost 5000+ US lives and 100s of thousands, if not more, Iraqi lives.

They used fear with their color coded terror alerts for political gain. They put lobbyists in charge of our domestic policy and Cheney's old company benefited from no bid contracts.

They weren't as disgustingly narcissistic, but W begat Sarah Palin, who begat Trump. Trump would have never happened if not for the Bush administration.

[a kennedy]

23. Bush never really did anything it was all Cheney IMHO.

Bush was just a frontman to Cheney’s bullshit.

[Hekate]

11. I thought Heileman went a step too far there & Nicolle may have a private word with him on that.

Heileman is pretty full of himself.

[JI7]

14. similar happened when Lawrence o'Donnell brought up the swift boat attacks in 2004

she was bringing up Bush as a positive contrast to trump and something about 2004 elections. and lod reminded how that campaign was.

she wasn't like angry or so outwardly emotional. but you could tell she did not like it.

[Submariner]

15. At a "Swift Boat Liars for Bush" hate rally with Dubya playing folksy town hall politician

a punk stated that "John Kerry shot himself............twice.....for Purple Heart medals".

The camera caught Bush smiling and letting that cheap shot go, and it was never corrected. I wanted to reach through the screen (probably for the millionth time) and choke the little shitbird.

So Nicole Wallace is responsible for that campaign lie bullshit, and I can't watch her now because of Kerry's treatment. Tough shit if she feels bad. She deserves every bit of it. And WTF is a right winger doing with her own show on MSNBC. Isn't Huey Hewitt enough pain?

[JI7]

24. yup, it's not tough to be "not as bad as Trump" . "not as bad as trump" can include a lot of

shitty things also.

[Rhiannon12866]

16. I saw and heard that and had the same reaction, good analysis.

I could tell that Wallace didn't enjoy Heilemann's description of Bush*, she still has loyalty towards him, but as you said, her face remained blank - though I inwardly cringed a little since I know her feelings towards her "former boss," as she calls him. But, as you said, she moved right on. And she has said that the breaking point for her was Sarah Palin, that's when she gave up on being a Republican.

[Raine]

17. Wallace is a Republican and always will be! nt

[uponit7771]

22. +1, when it comes to Bush she's a true believer no doubt. She has a different view of Bush than ...

... seeing him as a person who started a war that wasn't worth it.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

18. How do we put it all in perspective? Bush, being a useful idiot, allowing Cheney with

his huge scope of war machine friends who profit in wartime, tricks us into a war. with false info, where thousands upon thousands died?

Compare that to another useful idiot now - who throws balloons of insignificant hoopla up every day to hide the fact he and his minions are dismantling our systems, norms, values, traditions, and mores until, if unchecked, will affect us for decades ?

And nothing is stopping him except the hope that he will lose in 2020 - in a system where UNBELIEVABLY no one in Congress and the Senate has managed to AT LEAST denounce and publicize the fact the the Russians interfered and US intel says they will do it again and that we are not preventing it.

[Kid Berwyn]

19. I'm glad.

Great to know the truth about the Coward from Crawford hurts.