Kirsten Gillibrand, two words as to why you went nowhere

[Cyrano]

Al Franken.

[Cyrano]

2. Copied it from Google. My bad. My dumb. Thanks.

(This a reply to the deleted post above, regarding my mistake on Gillibrand's name.)

[leftieNanner]

3. Yep

And at the time, I think she thought she was being a champion for women. The Me Too movement put her in that mindset. But she forgot that due process is still a thing. Al deserved a hearing at least. And we have lost a wicked smart, hard working, progressive Senator on our side.

[kiri]

9. a naked power grab that backfired.

Not only, but Gilli doubled down, refused to apologize, refuses to acknowledge her error in judgment. She wanted to enhance her career and to destroy a rival who eclipsed her. It was a naked power grab that backfired.

[dobleremolque]

17. This n/t

[LittleGirl]

45. yup n/t

[the_sly_pig]

47. Agreed.

[calimary]

56. Yep. No kidding.

[Owl]

58. Yup

[Kahuna7]

74. Yep. So transparent. nt

[customerserviceguy]

78. True. n/t

[Roy Rolling]

113. Uh huh

Every time I have seen her I could think of nothing but how she was the loudest shill for Republicans in their plot to oust Al Franken.

She wanted to make a name for herself, and she branded herself—a tool of right-wing propagandists and too clueless to understand it.

And she wanted to be president? Now that I’m writing this, being a useful idiot does not end at just Republicans.

[Ellipsis]

115. Yup. n/t

[joost5]

120. Yessss. n/t

[RhodeIslandOne]

80. I think at the time she saw Franken as a contender for the office she wanted.

And saw a chance to sandbag him and take him out quickly.

Hope it was worth it.

[UCmeNdc]

119. Agree!

[OAITW r.2.0]

4. I thought the same when it was announced.

Couldn't make a dent with Democratic women
Most saw it as an unfair attack on Al. Her national aspirations are toast.

[Ernesto]

6. works for me! n-t

[Cousin Dupree]

5. Innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around, KG

[zentrum]

7. Didn't even have to open your post

.....to know.

I called her the day she announced.

I will call her again.

202-224-4451

And say two words: Al Franken.

Come back Al!

[Ligyron]

92. Me either.

But if we were crude like the Trumps, we could use 3 words: "Al fucking Franken"

[zentrum]

147. LOL. OK. 3 Words!

[ginnyinWI]

8. Amen!! nt

[MrModerate]

10. I would NEVER have voted for Gillibrand, UNLESS...

She'd been named the Democratic nominee. Then I would have been for her 100%.

[brooklynite]

11. As opposed to Klobuchar, Bennet, Booker.....

[questionseverything]

60. i dont think amy k asked for him to resign

but the others including my favs Bernie and warren showed a serious lack of judgement

from here in the heartland it was like watching acorn defunded all over again

[brooklynite]

61. She did; just not publicly

[questionseverything]

62. lol srry if it happened in your back room world of millionaire dealers...it doesn't count

n/t

[LakeArenal]

72. Exactly.

[RhodeIslandOne]

81. LOL

[brooklynite]

97. Actually it happened in IN CNN

Democratic Sen. Amy Klobuchar, who serves in the Senate representing Minnesota with Al Franken, explained Friday that she didn't publicly ask Franken to resign this week because of their relationship.

"I had condemned his conduct early on when the first allegation was made," she told CNN's Dana Bash on "Inside Politics." "I felt I was in a different role as his colleague, that I'm someone that has worked with him for a long time, there's a lot of trust there, and I felt it was best to handle it in that way."

In a coordinated effort, female Democratic senators called for Franken's resignation in rapid fire Wednesday. Klobuchar did not join in that effort and said in a statement at the time that she spoke with him privately. By Wednesday evening, more than two dozen senators -- including Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer -- had called for Franken's resignation.

"I talked to him about the fact that you had reached the situation with the mounting allegations and the fact that there was an ethics investigation going on," Klobuchar told CNN Friday.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/08/politics/amy-klobuchar-senate-al-franken-minnesota/index.html

[vapor2]

98. Gillibrand

Yes, she was the first to initiate his resignation without a hearing

[wellst0nev0ter]

84. None of them cut campaign ads shivving Franken

And none of them covered for campaign aides accused of sexually harassing a coworker, like Gillibrand did.

[delisen]

12. How about about one word:scapegoating

The ringleader of demanding Franken's resignation was the Senate Minority Leader, Chuck Schumer-the most powerful Democratic Senator.
he has tools at his service to getting other senators in the Democratic Caucus to do his bidding.

Al Franken himself has laid the blame for his getting stampeded out of the senate at Schumer's doorstep.

Now let's look at the senators whom Schumer pressured to demand Franken resignation.

Corey Booker, Bernie Sanders, Kamela Harris, Elizabeth Warren-all still in the race.

The majority of the Democratic caucus demanded Franken resign-some since have been murmuring regret but the fact is when the pressure was on they turned away from Franken and followed their leader (who has some power over their careers).

Gillibrand has never hidden her stand on the sexual abuse issues and response. She is the ranking senator on Armed Forces Committee and has battled the military on behalf of women, transgender, and gay persons. Her call for Franken to resign was the first but it was consistent with her principles.

I personally wrote to Franken asking him to not resign-I believe Franken was denied due process and he resigned only due to the pressure of having his leader and the majority of his peers turn against him

However I am also opposed to the isolating and attacking the woman who acted in accordance with her own previously demonstrated principles, and then giving a pass to the mob and the mob leader.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/363682-schumer-called-met-with-franken-and-told-him-to-resign-report

Asked if he now regrets resigning, Franken responded, "Oh, yeah. Absolutely."

Franken said he wishes he had been able to appear before a Senate Ethics Committee hearing, but he tells The New Yorker that Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) demanded he resign or else he would organize the whole Democratic caucus to demand his resignation. A spokesperson for Schumer denied this threat was made.

"I'm angry at my colleagues who did this," Franken said, going on to say he "became clinically depressed" after leaving the Senate. He also placed blame on Schumer, saying, "Look, the Leader is called the Leader for a reason."

Schumer has the chance to demonstrate leadership. He didn't. The majority of the Democratic caucus had the opportiunity to behave differently-they didn't.

Finding one woman to guilty for the actions of a mob, led by a male ringleader, and then declaring "justice has been done is an old story our society.

As old as the witchcraft trials in Salem and all the anti-female crap of wester civilization which has never served us well.

Personally I prefer to face reality and change it.

[pnwpolicy]

15. Exactly

She was completely scapegoated on this. And partisanship > a #believewomen principle for many on this site, sadly.

[Polly Hennessey]

49. I believe she convinced Schumer to

take the extreme route. Doubt Schumer would have made the decision without being influenced.

[PatrickforO]

101. Franken didn't get due process. That's the beef.

I'm certainly not denigrating the me too movement, or the believe women principle. Not at all. I've been married twice and both wives had had bad experiences in the past. I've got three daughters and two granddaughters. I don't want any of them to not be believed, or to not get justice.

Problem is, the cornerstone of our entire system of justice is due process. And, yes, I know that has not been perfect by any means for women or for people of color. But that does not mean that someone who has been accused of something is not owed due process.

For Franken it was kind of a Kangaroo court and Gillibrand led the charge. Bad political move, basically ended up hoisted on her own petard. I'm sorry for that, because she's a decent Senator. I think she could have gotten some wind in this primary if she'd just had the sense to say, "I was wrong for my part in forcing Franken to resign without receiving due process, which was his due."

That's all she had to say, and most people would be cool.

As it is, I've got to say, as a wonk who actually looks at what Senators DO as opposed to what they SAY, Franken was hands down one of the very best Senators this century. For sure. Hands down. Story after story of him going way above and beyond to help constituents. He's a good voice for us, a good human being, and my fervent hope is he runs again. Because you know what? He'd win in a landslide.

Gillibrand made a really bad, politically fatal mistake. That's the bottom line. And now she's paid by being starved for money from donors who refused her money based on her actions against Franken.

[PoliticAverse]

29. Gillibrand takes the heat because the was the first Senate Democrat to publicly call

for Franken's resignation.

If you don't want to be the person that everyone keys on for something bad don't be first to publicaly push it.

https://wtop.com/congress/2019/07/kirsten-gillibrand-says-she-does-not-regret-calling-for-al-frankens-resignation/

[LiberalFighter]

40. Damn right

[EveHammond13]

55. no one should have called for his resignation

[RhodeIslandOne]

82. This guy approves

?w=990

[GeorgeGist]

30. She was more than happy to stand in front of the cameras ...

and demand it PUBLICLY. The spinelessness of Schumer doesn't change that FACT.

[bronxiteforever]

34. +1 Thank you for using facts and logic!

[delisen]

69. Schumer is not spineless. He is the leader

of the entire democratic caucus.He has the power to demand and command members of the Senate who are Democrats and who caucus with democrats such as Bernie Sanders. He has the power to punish or reward and has tools at his disposal.

He has all the power to keep members in line that Nancy Pelosi has in the House. According to Al Franken it was Schumer who force his resignation, not Gillibrand, and he did it by threatening to turn the entire caucus against Franken.

Schumer plays hardball -if he did not he would have survived as the Senate Minority Leader.

Apparently he wanted Franken's resignation and he got it. He has certainly never apologized, nor has he admitted his role. However I believe Franken's account of what Schumer did.

I did not see Gillibrand as being at all happy in making her public statement.

Here is the list of all the Democratic caucus members who had called, by December 6,2017, for Franken's resignation (and Schumer was going to round up more):

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/06/full-list-senators-call-for-al-franken-to-resign-282175

[wellst0nev0ter]

86. He needs to resign

[calimary]

105. I wouldn't call it playing hardball when you go almost literally in your knees to Moscow Mitch

and beg him to let you off to go campaign a few days early in e change for an extra 15 free judges.

Schumer can go suck it. AND resign. I’ve lost all respect for him. If he really gave a damn about his caucus he’d use his wiles to undercut, subvert, short-sheet, and screw Mass Murder Mitch at every possible turn. Rather than lying down in total supplication.

[onetexan]

106. It was Gillibrand & schumer both, and Warren, Harris & host of others who did

mob justice does not a guilty person make. He/she has to have their day in court, or in this case, a hearing.

The problem here is Gillibrand was way too eager to lead the charge in calling for Al's blood without giving him due process. What is so ironic, and eggregious and damning, about this eagerness to pass judgment is the fact schumer, gillibrand, harris, & watren (among others) are lawyers. This is my beef with them, and to this day they've not come out to admit their mistake nor apologize for it. InGillibrand's case she doubled down on it and still vehemently defends she did the right thing. She also cast shade on Bill & Hillary throwing them under the bus by saying Bill should have resigned when he was POTUS. They helped gillibrand byrepeatedly stumping or her.

This pattern of behavior not only shows bad judgment but reveals an opportunistic person willing to harm others for political expediency. Gillibrand had better stop her ambitions of becoming president as given what she did she will never be one.

[IndyOp]

32. Initially it was 7 senators. After that Gillibrand pushed on her own. Schumer lowered the boom.

I can see how someone might see scapegoating, but see her part in this as larger than that of the other 6 female senators.

Jane Mayer's article in The New Yorker...

On December 1, 2017, seven female Democratic senators—Gillibrand, Kamala Harris, Claire McCaskill, Mazie Hirono, Patty Murray, Maggie Hassan, and Catherine Cortez Masto—met with Chuck Schumer to tell him that most of them were on the verge of demanding Franken’s resignation. At least one of them had already drafted such a statement, and the group’s resolve hardened further when some of its members learned of an impending Politico story that contained a seventh allegation, by a former Senate staff member. The accuser, whose name is being withheld at her request, was known to some of the seven female senators. The woman said that, in 2006, when Franken was still a comedian, he had made her uneasy by looking as if he planned to kiss her. The senator she had worked for hadn’t known of the allegation at the time, but vouched for her credibility.

Minutes after Politico posted the story, Senator Gillibrand’s chief of staff called Franken’s to say that Gillibrand was going to demand his resignation. Franken was stung by Gillibrand’s failure to call him personally....

Gillibrand then went on Facebook and posted her demand that Franken resign: “Enough is enough. The women who have come forward are brave and I believe them. While it’s true that his behavior is not the same as the criminal conduct alleged against Roy Moore, or Harvey Weinstein, or President Trump, it is still unquestionably wrong, and should not be tolerated.”

Minutes later, at a previously scheduled press conference, Gillibrand added insult to injury: she reiterated her call for Franken to resign while also trumpeting her sponsorship of a new bill that banned mandatory arbitration of sexual-harassment claims. She didn’t mention that Franken had originated the legislation—and had given it to Gillibrand to sponsor, out of concern that it might be imperilled by his scandal.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/07/29/the-case-of-al-franken

[renate]

64. that last bit tells me everything I need to know about her

Well, no, not everything, because I know she's done good stuff, and I believe she's probably genuinely well intentioned as a politician, focused on the greater good for her constituency, aside from her own ambitions. But I can't stand it when people take credit for other people's work or good deeds.

[Sloumeau]

41. I believe that you may not know the whole story.

First of all, I have not seen any evidence that Schumer pressured anyone into demanding Franken's resignation. It is true that he is powerful, and it is also true that he does have ways of putting pressure on people, but I haven't seen any evidence that he did that. You might want to keep in mind that there were about 50 Democrats in the Senate at the time, yet only about 30 Senators demanded Franken's resignation. Was Schumer only supposedly pressuring some people and not others, or is it possible that individual Senators, instead of feeling intense pressure, decided for themselves whether or not to pressure Franken? I think some valuable information can be found in the NYTimes story entitled, "On Sexual Misconduct, Gillibrand Keeps Herself at the Fore" from December 6, 2017: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/06/nyregion/gillibrand-franken-sexual-misconduct.html:

Start Article Quote:

"When the floodgates opened on Wednesday to cast Senator Al Franken aside, following a half-dozen accusations of sexual misconduct, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand had positioned herself at the crest of the wave.

“Enough is enough,” she wrote on Facebook, becoming the first of Mr. Franken’s Democratic colleagues to call for his resignation on Wednesday morning. By lunchtime, more than a quarter of Democratic senators had concurred; by evening, a solid majority. Mr. Franken has now scheduled a public announcement about his future for Thursday."

Stop Article Quote:

The article indicates that Gillibrand led the charge, not Schumer, and not anyone else, and that she was the first one to publicly call for his resignation. I seem to remember in another article I read that Gillibrand met with other Senators and that they had decided together that Gillibrand would be the first because of her history of working on women's issues. Again, I saw no indication in that article that anyone pressured Gillibrand or any of the others who called for Franken's resignation. Did Schumer at any point actually pressure anyone? I have never seen any of the Senators claim that they were pressured by Schumer, and I have also seen that Gillibrand has expressed no regrets over what happened.

I believe that Gillibrand allowed herself to go first because she believed that was she was doing was right, and that she still believed that she did the right thing, and I believe this because I have never seen her contradict it. However, the idea that she believes that she did the ring thing is, in a nutshell, the problem. Equality for everyone means everyone--both men and women--and it can only be achieved by fighting for justice for both men and women. That means that if a person believes that women are entitled to due process, then a person might want to believe that men are entitled to it also. In Gillibrand's Facebook post, she left no room for the possibility that Franken was completely innocent, or that Franken may have only been partially innocent. Instead she apparently just assumed that he was guilty. In addition, she apparently was basing this on the claims of people that were never either formally recorded by law enforcement or the Senate and were never formally investigated by anyone. Interviews, investigations, and hearings are how the truth is separated out.

When Brett Kavanaugh had his hearing, the problem that so many supporters of Professor Ford and I had with the investigation was that the investigation of Kavanaugh was so short and incomplete. Why were Senators trying to bypass the investigation and hearing process with Franken? Why were they in such a rush? Why were a hearing and investigation the right thing for Kavanaugh but not Franken? Perhaps it had something to do with the Roy Moore Senate election that was coming up soon. Perhaps some Senators thought that it would be inconvenient to have Al Franken around when they wanted to point out what a pervert Roy Moore allegedly was, so they threw Franken under the bus.

Women have been denied due process for thousands of years, as men decided everything and ignored the crimes done against women. Women have always been entitled to due process--they just have rarely received it. Isn't that awful, all of the time that women did not get the due process that they were entitled to? Due process is a right, not a privilege.

Obtaining justice and due process for women is what the #MeToo movement is supposed to be about. However, women will not get more of it by giving men less of it, because any time a case can be made to deny due process for men, that same case can be turned around and used against women. Women will only get the justice they need when both men and women demand it for both...men and women.

[Eyeball_Kid]

65. Well thought out. Thanks for your work. n/t

[Trenzalore]

50. Chuck did his maneuverings behind closed doors. Kirsten did it in front of the TV cameras

Schumer has to answer for what he did.

As for Kirsten, she literally ran on this as a strength of hers. While this was going on she wasn't camera shy. Al and her were friends who played a weekly squash game together. Does she deserve to be the only person culpable for the railroading, no. She says she is damn proud of it though.

[brush]

70. Nah, she led the charge, and also threw Bill Clinton under the bus while she was at it. I heard...

her on 127 Progressive satellite radio when the Leann Tweeden accusation first came out. She called for Franken to step down before the other alleged accusers even came forward. In the interview she also said Bill Clinton should've resigned over the consensual Lewinsky affair. Right there she equated a consensual affair with the repug hit job accusation by Tweeden using a gag photo. And the Clintons were the ones who endorsed her and raised money for her to take Hillary's Senate seat. Loyalty certainly wasn't going to stand in her way though even though the Lewinsky affair was 20-year-old news.

There's no doubt she was the self-appointed ringleader of the get-Franken-out brigade. Others, Schumer included, joined in so that they wouldn't seem to be anti-woman.

Gullibility in falling for Roger Stone/Tweeden/Sean Hannity hit job on Franken, ambition for higher office and poor judgement does not a good candidate for president make—not to mention just over all blandness on the stump.

I'm glad the vast majority of Democrats had enough sense not to get behind her candidacy.

[kelly1mm]

152. Thanks for reminding me again of all those who

Lack the judgement to be President! Hopefully they all drop out soon!

[honeylady]

13. She also blew it when asked if Joe Biden was fit to be president,

she would not say yes and instead said she would let the voters decide that.

I got a call from her campaign for money and I told the caller that I thought that was the wrong thing to say. The caller said she thought it was the right thing to say. I said no it wasn't. She should have said of course he's fit to be president. End of remarks.

She blew it bad with me.

[Nuffer]

14. No where

I totally agree! I. Bet if Al ran again he would win in a landslide...I miss him..he knew his stuff and ran circles around the trumponians posing as senators at this time.

[Shrike47]

16. I'm on board with that explanation. The Franken thing killed her with me, anyway.

[Funtatlaguy]

18. Self appointed leader of the moral purity deciders.

Her theme song

[calimary]

19. Yep. Al Franken.

My husband said that after he heard she ended her campaign.

I certainly won’t ever forget.

[mulsh]

20. IF she had supported an investigation rather than the over the top political performance she treated

us to she'd probably be a more viable candidate. I might even vote for her some day.

Al Franke was far from the self aggrandizing sexist bully that covertly abuse women. I thought he acted honorably through that mess. Not so the junior senator from NY

Her actions, mercilessly hammering Senator Franke told me she's more concerned with furthering her career on #me too coat tails than sincerely concerned about that issue.

[Eyeball_Kid]

68. Al was a professional comic.

It was his job to be a goof ball and to take things out of context. Every event that was redefined as an allegation was viewed within a context that did not do justice to Franken’s performance art, which is how he once earned his living.

That someone “felt” as if Franken was being offensive does not rise to the level of seriousness that should have resulted in Franken being forced to resign.

[TheCowsCameHome]

21. Two more words:

Just desserts.

[Ligyron]

96. Good riddance

another 2

[honeylady]

22. She also blew it when asked if Joe Biden was fit to be president,

she would not say yes and instead said she would let the voters decide that.

I got a call from her campaign for money and I told the caller that I thought that was the wrong thing to say. The caller said she thought it was the right thing to say. I said no it wasn't. She should have said of course he's fit to be president. End of remarks.

She blew it bad with me.

[Skittles]

51. maybe she does not think he is fit to be president

[ChubbyStar]

94. Gee WELCOME Back

[BlancheSplanchnik]

23. Yep. I know I'm not the only one who liked her until THAT. n/t

[mountain grammy]

24. She had my attention at the beginning of the current fiasco

she voted not to confirm every single incompetent, immoral, partisan and racist appointment made by the con.

She was a fighter against all things trump and was great at it. Then came Al Franken. She threw it all away in a collosal rush to judgement.

[Baltimike]

109. This is so spot on. It's exactly how I feel. nt

[DIVINEprividence]

25. Warren threw Franken under the bus too

[Funtatlaguy]

27. So did Schumer...but we know who led the parade.

[LakeArenal]

73. Harris too.

All have doubled down air more on it as well

[DIVINEprividence]

87. Warren should be held to same standard

Warren showed political cowardice. What they pulled on Franken was bs. While we are at it, let's take a look at Bernie Ssnders creepy rape fantasy stag magazine writing. Come on you me tooers. Where are you????

[LakeArenal]

90. Absolutely.

[marble falls]

26. Two very important words. The country is worse for the taking of Al Franken from the body politic.

[MarianJack]

28. Without her Franklin shenanigans she'd likely have been a high choice of mine,...

...if not my first choice.

After, she was about my sixth or seventh choice.

RESIST!

[madaboutharry]

31. I think she believed that she would carry the "Me Too" banner

and be the hero of woman. I think she was genuinely surprised that she actually alienated a lot of democrats.

I remember clearly the news conference she gave calling for Franken's resignation. I found her self-righteous. She indicated that she didn't care about nuance and that she was sick and tired of men thinking they can harass women. I might be wrong, but it felt like she was projecting a lot of her own experiences into the situation. I found her unprofessional.

She kept defending her actions by saying that "8 credible accusers..." But that is not true. There were not 8 credible accusers. There was Leeann Tweeden who produced a stupid joke photo from a USO tour. There were a couple of women who claimed he touched them. There was a lady who said he put his hand on her waist while having a photo taken at the State Fair. There were a couple of anonymous complaints. And for that, she lead the drumbeat to get Franken out of the Senate. It was such bullshit. Gillibrand had been assaulted while in the military and I am sorry for that. She had an emotional reaction to the Franken accusations and she failed to use good judgement in processing them.

Those Senators who also called for his resignation also are at fault for jumping on the bandwagon for fear of not supporting women. More bullshit.

I do not mean to offend anyone. I am sorry if I have, but this is how I feel about the whole Franken saga.

[DFW]

42. You are not alone.

All Democratic Senators who publicly called for Al Franken's resignation are to blame to some degree, and the lack of public apologies by all of them is something I find appalling. I will not support any of them for the Democratic nomination.

[Skittles]

53. you echo me exactly

she helped to railroad one of our best senators in a deluded attempt to be president and it backfired exactly like we all knew it would

[Little Star]

33. I seriously don't think that I could ever vote for her......

She sealed that deal herself. Very poor judgement on her part and just plain nasty too.

[ihaveaquestion]

35. Wasn't a factor for me

I just never considered her the best candidate.

[democratisphere]

36. Never again.

[snowybirdie]

37. It also could be

Her change from a Blue Dog Dem to a very liberal legislator when she was appointed Senator. Not sure who she really is not what she really stands fot.

[dem4decades]

38. Someone here was kind enough to tell me about Al's podcast.

Just listened to my first one a few moments ago, he was interviewing Mondale.

It was terrific.

Al Franken was one of a kind in the Senate, he is missed.

Out of respect to the rules i won't say anything else.

[LiberalFighter]

39. I would add a few words...

Didn't follow best procedure. Meaning she wanted to skip the steps in between.

[Merlot]

43. Women didn't ask for a "champion"

And trying to be one was nothing short of oportunistic.

[Sneederbunk]

44. Al knows those who did not support him and it was not only Gillibrand.

The Franken taint would remove 5 of the candidates in the next debate.

[Danascot]

46. Here are two articles that tend to agree with you

Gillibrand Campaign Insiders Felt Franken Resignation Foiled Her Bid
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/kirsten-gillibrand-campaign-al-franken-resignation

Why Gillibrand crashed and burned
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/29/kirsten-gillibrand-drops-out-2020-race-1477845

[the_sly_pig]

48. Good. Glad she's out.

I would have voted for her if she was the Democratic nominee, but only in that scenario. My list has 4 names in this order: mayor Pete, Warren, Harris, Biden.

[Mira]

52. One. Hundred. Percent.

Karma never sleeps.

[Raine]

54. EXACTLY! nt

[rickyhall]

57. Now they're after going after Ringo Star for a cover song he recorded 46 years ago.

[Beartracks]

95. Wtf, really?

[LEW]

59. It was a factor for me

I never gave her any real consideration due to what happened with So Franken.....

[milestogo]

63. Two more words:

Kirsten Gillibrand

[tymorial]

66. Pretty much. She used the allegations and metoo in order to enhance her profile

It was obvious and calculated.

She could have supported an investigation but she didnt. The demands for immediate resignation were unwarranted and just another example that our party seems to be willing and able to eat our own.

[crimycarny]

67. Anyone read this New Yorker article re: Al Franken accusations, a closer look?

I just stumbled across this New Yorker article from July 2019 where they re-visit the whole Al Franken fiasco. It's a good read and lends credence to what I've always felt, the guy was railroaded. But this paragraph about Kristen Gillibrand really caught my attention and confirmed my opinion that her accusations were all about helping her politically:

"Minutes later, at a previously scheduled press conference, Gillibrand added insult to injury: she reiterated her call for Franken to resign while also trumpeting her sponsorship of a new bill that banned mandatory arbitration of sexual-harassment claims. She didn’t mention that Franken had originated the legislation—and had given it to Gillibrand to sponsor, out of concern that it might be imperilled by his scandal."

The full article is here: [link:https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/07/29/the-case-of-al-franken|

[FakeNoose]

75. Yep! I'm so glad she dropped out

... because I would have never voted for her.

I pledged to "vote blue no matter who" but I was crossing my fingers as long as Gillibrand was in the race. Now that she's out, I can honestly say the I will support and vote for the Democratic Party nominee, no matter who it is.

[Skittles]

77. yes

and it backfired on her spectacularly

[Raine]

102. WOW

I'm so glad she's out after failing to get anywhere, she sure didn't deserve to get any support from anyone!

[Hangdog Slim]

71. Two more

Due Process. My two cents

[pnwmom]

76. One word.

Scapegoat.

Every Democratic woman in the Senate except for Amy K. (who said she would remain neutral because of their close working relationship) signed the petition that same day, and most of the men.

[Tarc]

79. Sad that the misogynistic attacks on Gillibrand persist

when none of the males who called for Franken's resignation ever received a smidge of criticism around here.

[RhodeIslandOne]

83. No other male or female made it their platform n/m

[pnwmom]

103. Every female Senator except Klobuchar signed that same petition the same day as Gillibrand.

And Amy K said she was going to remain neutral because they work together for Minnesota.

Gillibrand is just a scapegoat.

[Tarc]

112. Lying doesn't advance your argument much

Kirsten Gillibrand did not campaign on her Franken vote.

[hatrack]

116. Yeah, gee, I wonder why she didn't . . . .

[RhodeIslandOne]

145. I'm not going to report you for that.

It's against the TOS calling me a liar.

Anyway, the base of the Democratic party has spoken.

[wellst0nev0ter]

88. Does anyone own any responsibility any more?

She was first out the gate asking Franken to resign, and all her defenders say is "you too".

[pnwmom]

104. So what? All the other female Senators signed within a few hours, and most of the D men, too.

The only woman who didn't was Amy Klobuchar, and she said she remained neutral since they work together.

[wellst0nev0ter]

127. She either owns responsibility or she doesn't

pointing to others doesn't absolve her of anything, and it only makes her look like a smaller person than she already is.

[pnwmom]

129. She isn't apologizing and she shouldn't. One of the 7 women complaining was

a Congressional staffer, and all those Senate women and men who signed were in a position to know what the staffer was saying -- we aren't.

I don't think Al Franken meant any harm, but he got caught by a changing culture. His behavior was offensive even if he didn't intend it to be.

[wellst0nev0ter]

131. About the staffer

It incident allegedly happened in 2006 BEFORE Franken became Senator. Franken didn't even touch the woman, although she reported that Franken apparently tried to kiss her before she moved out of the way.

However, the anonymous victim said Franken said "It's my right as an entertainer," something that Franken categorically denied ever saying.

Most important, the woman is on record saying she doesn't care if Franken made an innocent mistake or if there was a misunderstanding, which makes me question her motives.

An investigation would have gotten to the bottom of this squirrelly case, but Franken didn't deserve one apparently.

[pnwmom]

132. That's the one staffer we know about. Knowing Franken's touchy-feeliness, and his jokiness,

he could easily have made other women uncomfortable who didn't want to go public. We'll never know. But I bet the Senators were questioning their staffers before they made their decision.

And drawing that very firm line was a good way to set the precedent from then on. It's too bad Franken had to get caught up in the changing views about this kind of male behavior, but he did. ALL the women of the Senate (except Klobuchar) took a strong stand that day, along with Schumer and many of the other D men.

[wellst0nev0ter]

133. All of Franken's staffers testified

that he never acted inappropriately. None of his past writing staff reported such behavior. Nobody came forward except for trumpanzees and a handful of anonymous accusers whose claims defy credulity.

If you agree that Franken should be crucified (for past misdeeds no less) to satisfy this zero tolerance policy, then should Biden be cancelled too?

[wellst0nev0ter]

134. In any case, the Dem's only "took a stand"

because Minnesota's governor was a democrat who will appoint a replacement. If the governor were a republican, like he was in Menendez's case, they wouldn't dare call for his resignation.

[pnwmom]

135. This is not the place to discuss primary-related issues, but I wish all politicians would

respect personal boundaries and I am much more likely to support those who do.


When did Franken's staffers testify? I don't remember any public hearing about this.

[wellst0nev0ter]

136. Franken's female staffers released a statement in his defense

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/11/17/former-franken-female-staffers-speak-out-he-treated-us-with-the-utmost-respect/

And we are allowed to talk about Biden as long as it is not explicitly about the primary.

[pnwmom]

137. Almost any issue regarding a current Presidential candidate belongs in the primaries forum.

And your question to me certainly did.

With regard to the statement, it is by "some" of his former female staffers, not all. And it doesn't include any other Senate staffers who work for other Senators.

And the article you linked to also included this:

Another former Franken staffer, his former spokeswoman Jess McIntosh, signaled on Thursday that she would not be speaking about the allegations against Franken.

“I’m doing this one in private, because that’s what will keep me the sanest,” she tweeted.

For an undisclosed reason that staffer chose not to defend him, as it would keep her "the sanest."

[wellst0nev0ter]

138. Your topic criteria is very narrow

Keep in mind this thread is about a former candidate, and other current candidates have been brought up frequently here.

None of Franken's former staff stepped forward to accuse him, and some have even wrote a letter vouching for his character. I wish that was taken into consideration before people decided to cancel him.

[pnwmom]

140. Here's another comment from Jess McIntosh, his former spokesperson, a month later.

She isn't criticizing Democrats for taking the stand they did. She's asking them to make it count.

And I think the bright line drawn by the Dems did help us in the Roy Moore situation, and also helped us elect more women.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/12/08/jess_mcintosh_democrats_must_make_me_too_moment_count_replace_these_guys_with_progressive_women.html

"One thing I want to say about today is that Democrats need to make this count. If we are going to cull our ranks, if this is the principle that we are setting today, we need to replace these guys with bold, progressive women, and we need to hold the Republicans to the same principle. We need to talk about the fact that it has been 425 days since Donald Trump admitted to being a sexual predator," she said. "And he's still there.

[wellst0nev0ter]

141. In the video, Jess McIntosh says he's not a predator

She says she has never seen any of the behavior described in the hundreds of photos and interactions with constituents.

But in the end, she is just another go-along-to-get-along democrat who can't see a ratfucking for what it was. She should be ashamed.

[pnwmom]

142. I never said he was a predator. I repeatedly said I didn't think he meant any harm

to the women.

But that doesn't mean that he always respected personal boundaries, or that his behavior didn't make some women uncomfortable.

[wellst0nev0ter]

143. But you lump him together with sexual predators

If you think his resignation is justified, without any sort of investigation.

[pnwmom]

144. I never said I opposed an investigation. It's too bad he didn't demand one, which was

within his rights.

OTOH, maybe he and some of the other Senators knew something I don't.

[wellst0nev0ter]

146. Franken regrets resigning

But when the majority of the caucus wants you out, and Schumer is threatening to take away his committee assignment and influence, there was no home for him there. That's it.

Plus the whole episode depressed him, so he wouldn't be in the right state of mind to stay in his seat and deal daily with a caucus that betrayed him.

[whathehell]

107. Yes, it's so obvious.. Meanwhile, the men who JOINED her in going after him

aren't even mentioned. Male Privilege -- It's a thing..

[Baltimike]

111. They all feel for ROGER STONE'S SUCKER BET, but she lead the way

and made an ad on the matter.

She doesn't get to gaslight now

[whathehell]

121. She "led the way', but there'd be no 'way' without the male support.

I'm not a fan of Gillibrand and I'm not defending her.. What I'm doing is pointing out the sharp disparity in the virulent 'blame' directed at her ONLY. It's clearly unbalanced.

[Baltimike]

123. *nope*. I lived through this...and am sorry for the typos.

she did this...plain and simple...once it didn't have the desired result, she tried to gas light all of us by saying *she* wasn't leading the way. She was. That's really all there is to it.

[whathehell]

124. *yep* and, by the way, virtually everyone here "lived through it"..

it happened only a couple of years ago.

"She did this herself"? Um, no. A sitting senator cannot be removed by jonly ONE other senator. That's why the signatures of Sanders, Schumer and the rest were needed. Franken would still be in office without them.
..Sorry, but that's the fact

You can continue to selectively hate on "the girl" -- We all know it's more 'fun' for some. Just don't try to pass it off as a fair or rational response.

[Baltimike]

139. Nice try. No dice. She drove the bandwagon they jumped on

You're absolutely right...this was only a few years ago, so PLEASE check these archives. Check what people RIGHT HERE were saying....You wanna know what they were saying?

That Gilibrand was driving the band wagon...because she was. There has been some serious gas lighting going on after the fact, but the truth is the truth.

[whathehell]

148. Lol..So the band wagon jumpers bear NO responsibility?

'Nice try', yourself, dear. Come back when you've learned how to assess responsibility. Until then, I'll say 'adieu'.

[Baltimike]

149. I didn't say that. I did INDEED say she was driving it though

conflate much? Maybe you should follow your OWN advice....because I ain't the only one who LIVED through KIRSTEN GILIBRAND leading the charge against Al Franken, and I will NOT be gas lighted.

[whathehell]

150. Nice try, but I'd already acknowledged that she 'led the way' and thereby

bore a larger share of the blame. 'Larger', however, does not mean 'all'.

The ISSUE for both me and the poster to whom I originally responded,

was the REFUSAL to include ANY of the men who supported her

in the blame. Again, and finally, I bid you 'adieu'.

[Baltimike]

153. I said what I said, and stand by it, you keep saying "adieu"

and here you are.

[The Wizard]

85. What will it take

for Democrats to learn that no matter what they say or what position they take Repubics will rail against then with lies and half truths. How many resigned because of Republican chicanery during the Obama Administration?
Democrats have to stop cowering in the corner hoping Republicans won't say mean things about then.
Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.

[FrankTC]

108. Democrats Eat Their Own

Agreed. Over and over Democrats turn on good people and shun or defund them because they appear to be morally suspect. It's not a rational reaction. It doesn't arise from a careful review of the evidence. It's emotional. It's some kind of antibody attack apparently designed to protect the moral integrity of the party as a whole. Republicans, on the other hand, gleefully support rapists and pedophiles and conmen and thieves. You're in your 30's and you troll the malls for susceptible teenage girls? Well, that's no problem if you praise the Lord and kick the libs -- you'll have the Republican vote. Republicans are in it to win it, and hypocrisy in the service of their long-term goals of despoiling the planet and immiserating the masses is just fine. Republicans are eager to take down Dems on flimsy or concocted evidence, and sometimes it seems that Democrats are eager too.

[ananda]

89. Yup..

Al franken

[panfluteman]

91. Hooray! I Guessed It!

Yep - who can ever forget - or forgive her - for what she did to Al Franken, one of our best senators ever? The whole Al Franken affair just showed what a political dunce she is, as far as I'm concerned.

[cynatnite]

93. You're wrong...

It's a huge field of candidates and she was one of many that didn't go anywhere. It was too crowded and not a lot of money to spend to make enough of a dent.

It's been long enough and people need to move on and get over it.

[Upthevibe]

99. Yep...n/t

[MadDAsHell]

100. Interesting... Chuck Schumer forces Franken out and we blame...a woman.

Why am I not surprised...

[ProfessorGAC]

110. Did You Read This Thread?

Her being tagged as the real villain is clearly defined in many other posts here.

[MadDAsHell]

114. How about we stop villain-izing women...Period. nt

[wellst0nev0ter]

128. Schumer's not running for president

that said, he needs to resign.

[aikoaiko]

117. Did she drop out?

[Gothmog]

118. K&R

[PNW-Dem]

122. Can I get an Amen!?

.

[onenote]

125. If that was the reason, how is that warren and harris are still in the race?

There are any number of reasons why Gillibrand's candidacy didn't take off. Her role in forcing Franken to resign may have played a part, but if had been the main reason, it also would be dragging down warren and harris (among others).

[CaptainTruth]

126. The lack of due process was surprising & disappointing.

[gopiscrap]

130. Exactly

[doc03]

151. The two words for me are Al Franken