I am very close to losing all patience with political commentators, politicians and some here on DU

[Atticus]

who keep "informing" us that this, that and whatever that Trump did or said just now is---wait for it----AN IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE!

At this point, my immediate response to these pronouncements is "So effin' what?" Identifying valid reasons to impeach this waste of skin has not been a problem from the moment he lowered his tiny hand at the "inauguration". By now, any competent person could draft dozen of counts stating "high crimes and misdemeanors" committed by Trump.

In scarce supply, however, is the spine, backbone, moxey---the political will to impeach. Until we manage some of that, breathlessly announcing additional "new" impeachable offenses is just---silly.

[Faux pas]

1. +100000000000000000

[Control-Z]

56. Can you tell me, what is that number?

Too many zeros for me to even try. Is it 10 trillion? A hundred trillion? I don't think I even know what would come after.

[Faux pas]

58. Lol I have no idea, guess I

should have just put + infinity.

[Control-Z]

60. Aha!

That's what I figured. Lol.

[virgogal]

2. Then log off and turn off the TV.......simple.

[Atticus]

4. That's exactly what that would be: "simple".

[certainot]

29. american liberals continue the biggest political mistake in history and are missing

an opportunity to deliver a historically devastating political blow to the cons - by destroying rw radio - the only real advantage thee GOP has and the only reason trump is in the white house

all this can be traced directly to the incredible stupidity of the left's and dem orgs in their ongoing ignoring of rw talk radio - turning it off while it continues to short circuit democracy from 1500 coordinated radio stations - increasingly coordinated and fed by puitin

[stopdiggin]

33. how do you destroy RW radio? (nt)

[certainot]

46. artificial intelligence makes it easy, cheap to digitize talk radio - ad industry will do the work

work once they become aware of how easy it is for activists to record, transcribe, and list advertisers without hardly any listening required

it wouldn't take much activism for the ad industry to get the message it has to start asking radio ad clients if they REALLY want to support the global warming denial, racism, hate, and ignorance

RW has perpetuated the myth that the monopoly is a reflection of the market demand for hate and lies ---advertisers will head for the hills and many stations will have to change programming to stay alive

and it wouldn't hurt for students and communities to start protesting anything trump at the 88+ universities that broadcast sports on 260 limbaugh stations

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Trump commits an impeachable offense every morning before breakfast.

I don't want to be told he's done it again because of course he's done it again; there's already a list of them thicker than the old Manhattan phone book. So what's going to be done about it?

[Magoo48]

31. Right on!

It’s been time for a long time; there will be no better time.
We impeach because it’s called for.
We impeach because it’s the appropriate response.

[Yavin4]

5. I can no longer watch Rachel Maddow's show because of this.

I don't find watching her reading trial transcripts of some loosely related Trump orbit figure very compelling nor informative.

[Hoyt]

27. +1. After 30 seconds of that, I figure a jury would fall asleep, and no chance Senate would care.

[CrispyQ]

6. The House is back in session September 9.

We should plan a massive call in to our reps that day and don't forget the Speaker. "What are you going to do about the criminal in the White House who ..." and then list all your grievances about the Trump administration, but I don't think they give you that much time if you get vmail.

[Meadowoak]

16. Hand written letters get more attention, and we don't need to wait till Sept 9.

[CrispyQ]

19. Why is it every time I mention calling your MOCs, someone tells me that's not good enough?

JFC.

If we burned up their phone lines & filled up their vmail boxes every day, I guarantee you they would pay attention. The last time we did that was the financial crisis of 2008. Are we there yet?

FWIW, letters go through security & take much longer to be delivered. If the issue you're writing about is time sensitive and you want to write, send a fax or send a post card.

[Meadowoak]

20. Can't we do both?

[brooklynite]

22. But you're not...

...and that's the point. Outside of political blogs and activists, the average voter either doesn't want Impeachment or doesn't care ENOUGH to demand action.

[lunatica]

36. By the time they get letters the crises will have moved on fivefold

Maybe in past times letters got more attention, but they’re becoming obsolete with email and twitter. The internet has changed things and we better change along with it or be left behind.

[miyazaki]

41. Would have to teach millennials how to write letters.

[uponit7771]

7. K&R, I'm sick of the lack of focus on Red Don's government enablers !! We need hyper focus on why...

... they are enabling Benedict Donald.

Moscow Mitch should be the first to focus on

[global1]

8. If We Impeach - Then How Will You Handle MoscowMitch And The Repugs Saving Trump In The Senate?..nt

[Atticus]

10. How will "I" handle it? I'll hang their refusal to convict the obviously guilty POS around

their neck like an albatross until it rots and the smell becomes too much for anyone outside his insane base to take. Let them defend the pus-bag in a suit---and use video of them doing it in our campaign ads.

[Efilroft Sul]

14. +1,000,000

[PufPuf23]

15. That is the obvious tactic to take. I don't get the resistence and willingness to

use the GOP controlled Senate as an excuse not to impeach.

This tactic is the best path to weaken McConnel and GOP Senators that enable Trump and other GOP nastiness; the GOP Senate resistance to impeachment is an opportunity to exploit their inherent weakness and lack of excuses not a reason to avoid impeachment.

[calimary]

21. This, absolutely and completely!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

26. Exactly! Not enough outrage --election protection

failure - same thing - shout it from the rooftops every day.

[FiveGoodMen]

17. ...because after the Senate saved Clinton, the GOP was so badly hurt by it?

[triron]

49. This is like comparing a fireworks sparkler to an atomic bomb.

[LisaM]

40. If he's impeached and not convicted, he'll score it as a victory.

There's no point in impeaching him, the Senate won't do their job. And Trump will have an even bigger smirk on his face than he does now, and crow about his "victory" till the cows come home. That's not something I want to see.

Nixon resigned because he knew the Senate would convict him. Sadly, we don't have that luxury.

[Atticus]

53. So, the winning strategy is "Don't ever take any chances." Unless we are (somehow)guaranteed to win

we shouldn't even try, right?

We are not guaranteed to win the White House next year. Should we just concede now? If we oppose Trump and he wins re-election, think of the smirk he'll have on his face then.

[LisaM]

57. The problem is that he's not normal.

No one wants him disgraced more than I do. But he has an uncanny knack of twisting things to his advantage, little as he deserved it.

[jalan48]

9. I feel the same way. It's like we are sheep waiting for the next pronouncement to excite or depress

us. How many night's did we wait for Rachael's next Russia bombshell during the Mueller investigation? It's all about keeping us outraged 24/7 without any corresponding political action. And if Trump gets voted out does anyone believe he will face any serious consequences for his actions? By then we will be on to the next big outrage.

[yardwork]

11. I'll go a step further. The Republicans won't remove him from office, so the voters have to do it.

We can say all day long that the House Democrats should do.... have a moral imperative.... blah blah, but the Republicans who control the Senate will protect Trump no matter what.

I'm glad that the House is holding hearings but nothing will come of it until we vote him out of office on Election Day.

It's up to we the people.

[empedocles]

12. We must concentrate on the strategy that can get rid of trump.

No moral or emotional imperative will work at that level.

It has been so well presented, so many times here and elsewhere, that we follow the Constitutional design and wisdom, [and the political reality]. The Citizens must be persuaded to support and rule clearly. Then by clear [both House and Senate] majority votes, which will come with clear Citizen support.

[Hortensis]

18. :) What's taking you so long?! But surely not just one reason?

Whatever. Come on, do it!

[blueinredohio]

23. I only watch Rachel Maddow and my local news.

I tired of it a while back.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

24. Amen to the highest power Atticus. It is all aboit

Spine, back bone, everything you say!!!! Totally agree that articles could be drawn up by anyone. Only problem..getting enough paper.

[Catch2.2]

25. Amen!!!!!!

Time for someone to grow a backbone!!!!

[lapfog_1]

28. What they are doing to the asylum seekers at the southern border

isn't an "impeachable offense"... it's GENOCIDE!

Forcing people to live in crowded cages with those that have the flu or the mumps... in freezing cold conditions... with no vaccines offered and treatment only after you present serious symptoms (long after you have infected others)... is the definition of Genocide.

Add to that the killing of those people with rare diseases who were INVITED here to undergo life saving treatments by now sending them to places where no such treatments are available... I can't imagine living in a country that allows this... and some of the right, calling themselves "good christians" REVEL in this behavior... I am simply at a lose for words.

[AlexSFCA]

30. no win situation for us

we don’t impeach - gop will blame us for it when trump is all done and gone. Impeach - witness immediate acquittal in the senate.

[yaesu]

32. Capitalism morphing into fascism has muted, destroyed any spine, backbone, moxey, political will

left in our political system.

[dalton99a]

34. At the rate things are going, Trump will finish his term(s) without a blemish on his record.

[KPN]

35. I agree. Just ITMF now and get it over with.

History will remember the Democrats for having stood up for the Constitution and the nation regardless of the outcome.

[Karadeniz]

37. Atticus, One cannot care too much, but the frustration is a killer. Painful. Just hang in there!

[bucolic_frolic]

38. Personally, I think we need to consult Boris Johnson

He seems to know a thing or two about how to clear out some incumbents

Yeah, I know ... but seriously, we're going to have to offend some people and break some rules

[aggiesal]

39. If nothing (i.e. impeachment) ever gets done ...

it willl only get worse.

When GW McIdiot was pResident, his offenses should have been enough to impeach,
but that was off the table.
So the next village idiot (Dolt45, IQ45, MF45, ...) with an (R) next to his name becomes
pResident and he's worse.
Do we have to wait for the next village idiot with an (R) as pResident to finally be fed up
with all their BS?
What damage do they have to do, to finally reach that level for impeachment to occur?

[infullview]

42. I had to shut off the Rachel Maddow show

because I was getting depressed. Trump is going to allow them to rape and pillage the Tongass, he's going to kill children that are dependent on life saving medical resources because they are not here legally!? Fuck impeachment: this man needs to be tried at the Hague for crimes against humanity et al.

[bdamomma]

55. That's what I'm

waiting for The Hague to say he is committing atrocities against children they better focus on Stephen Miller too.

[McKim]

43. Tell it!!! Still Waiting for the Call to a Big March on Washington!

Tell it, Atticus!!! I am still waiting for the call for a massive march on Washington or some such big event to coalesce all this pent up energy of ours!

[quickesst]

44. so, I gotta ask....

..... after you have finally lost all patience, what actions will you be taking to correct the problem?

Asking for a few hundred thousand friends.

[keithbvadu2]

45. Agree

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

47. Impeachment would take a lot of time and effort.

And then, conviction by the Senate is not going to happen. Zero chance.

So, much like the Obamacare repeals that were all vetoed by BHO, this would be another pointless exercise.

The only way to get rid of this bum is by voting in 2020.

[cwydro]

48. For the most part I agree. We certainly don't need any more reasons for impeachment.

However, this falls in the category of posters telling others what to post or not to post. This seems to be trending here lately.

Some post the same thing over and over again. Maybe they need to vent? Isn’t that why we’re all here?

Just trash the thread or ignore it. Who cares what others post?

[Progressive dog]

50. The investigation of Trump continues

in the House and in the courts. The Republican Senate continues to protect Trump. Meanwhile, Trump can be voted out in fifteen months.
I am losing all patience with those who don't seem to care that the Senate will not remove Trump from office unless the evidence is overwhelming. If Trump can continue to defy and delay access to evidence, then there is zero chance that Trump will be removed from office by impeachment.
We need the political will to vote, not political anger.

[Atticus]

54. I definitely care that the Republicans in the Senate will not convict Trump, but I refuse to accept

that as an excuse for the Democrats in the House not to impeach.

Is there any real doubt that Trump has committed numerous impeachable offenses? That is the only decision that is relevant.

And, yes, it really is that simple.

[Progressive dog]

65. Democrats need to collect evidence and make that evidence public.

Multiple committees are working on obtaining that necessary evidence.

[kacekwl]

51. Yes of course , I've read several stories just

today regarding the trump administration abusing menstruating girls , destroying forests in Alaska , the election commission practically shutting down . I could go on so all means let's wait another year or so to try to stop this cancer. I hope Speaker Pelosi has a change of heart when they come back from holiday.

[Joe941]

59. Thank you.

[StarfishSaver]

61. How do you think impeachment happens?

You're obviously very knowledgeable, so surely you know impeachment doesn't just happen in a vacuum with the House voting on it with no foundation. It occurs after an investigation when the House votes on articles of impeachment recommended by the Judiciary Committee.

And while it's easy to claim that "any competent person could draft dozen of counts stating 'high crimes and misdemeanors' committed by Trump," it's not enough to "state" Trump has committed impeachable offenses. Articles of impeachment must be backed up by serious, solid evidence, not just information we've read in the papers and seen on TV. And although you think what you've learned so far is enough to support impeachment, most people who've seen and heard the same things we have don't agree, so a much stronger case must be built. That's exactly what the Committee is doing now.

The Committee has said repeatedly and every which way from Sunday that it's conducting an investigation to determine whether to recommend articles of impeachment. They're methodically gathering evidence and, as part of that investigation, they're in court - several courts, in fact - seeking additional critical testimony and documents to be used against Trump. They may not be putting on a dog and pony show as they do this, which is a good thing since even though that would be entertaining and satisfying to many of us, it won't get them what they need at this point. This stage of an investigation is an unsexy slog, but must be done to get to the part we all want to see.

What else do you think they should get doing that they're not doing? Do you believe they're just supposed to throw together some articles of impeachment now with evidence that's so far been insufficient to convince the public Trump should be impeached and have the measure voted down by a majority of the House (including a majority of the Democrats)? Or should Pelosi not even wait for the Committee to do its work but force a floor vote on impeachment with no articles and have THAT vote lose by a large majority, as well?

People keep demanding impeachment, but now that the House is doing exactly what it needs to do to get to impeachment - which is a process, not a thing - they're attacking them for not having impeached yet. This complaining makes no sense to me. I don't understand why you're not willing to let them do what they need to do to get the result you want instead of criticizing them for not doing something that not only won't get you the result you say you want but will actually result in getting nothing (or get an even worse result - since the last thing we need is to have a Democratic House overwhelmingly reject impeachment a year before the election).

[Atticus]

62. We obviously disagree, but nothing demonstrates how differently we see things as your

suggestion that impeachment now would be " with no foundation".

There has never been a "president" more deserving of impeachment. Yes, I assure you I fully understand how impeachment works. I also understand that it is a political issue rather than a legal one. The question history will ask about this crisis in our government is "Did the Democrats do what was right and necessary and authorized by our Constitution?"

So far, the answer is "No".

[StarfishSaver]

63. You and I agree that he deserves impeachment

But we don't represent a majority of the public. And if you really want to get to impeachment or even close to it and not just try to make a point that will be lost on most of the country and not change anything, the House needs to compile sufficient evidence to support impeachment.

I think that the problem with your argument is the premise that, unless impeachment is voted on right now, the Democrats are failing their duty. But saying that "the answer now is no" is missing the point.

If we're concerned about how history will read this, it's important to remember we're not going to be judged by what did or didn't occur today - that is, unless it's done today without sufficient preparation, it hits a dead end and goes nowhere. If the House forces an impeachment vote in September, and it's voted down, history will not be kind. It will remember that the House Dems bowed to pressure from it's left flank, jumped the gun and let Trump get away with his crimes without even being impeached by a Democratic House.

If, on the other hand, the House continues to get its ducks in a row and, thanks to the additional evidence it's now compiling, successfully impeaches him, for example, next April and likely manages to bring a few Republican senators along, history won't care that the House didn't have an impeachment vote in September 2019. What will matter is that it happened.

So, insisting that it happen RIGHT NOW or we're doomed and history will throw us to the wolves is a false argument, in my opinion. It's better to do it right than to do it yesterday - especially since impeachment's not likely to remove him from office or change his behavior in any way. If the point is to make a point, we need to ensure we're actually making that point and not just talking to ourselves. And if the Democrats take their time and do it right, when history asks, "Did the Democrats do what was right and necessary and authorized by our Constitution?" the answer will be "YES!"

[Mike 03]

64. I agree completely but it doesn't hurt to keep track because

I personally think he's done way worse things than are outlined in the Mueller Report (and I admire and appreciate the Mueller report), and by that I mean he could be impeached on crimes that EVERYONE CAN UNDERSTAND and NO ONE CAN SAY ARE A GREY AREA, like Abuse of Power, or Human Rights Violations, Money Laundering, granting favors to foreign enemies in exchange for financial assistance, and dozens of other crimes.

I think that's a sound argument for having wide ranging discussion on the crimes he has committed and continues to commit, so that maybe we can push our leaders in the direction of impeachment that is not limited to the four corners of the Mueller report.

But, as you point out, the first hurdle is that we need to use our power and to find creative legal and constitutional ways to stop the damage this administration is doing. And, yes, a lack of spine.

EDITED TO CLARIFY