What do you think about the woman who shot/killed intruder with 911's permission?

[apples and oranges]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/okla-woman-shoots-kills-intruder911-operators-shoot/story?id=15285605#.TwYAy2MfaH8

I think she did the right thing because even if she was able to scare them off by yelling or shouting at them, I'm sure they would have come back at a later time.

[seabeyond]

1. i hope if someone is coming at me with a knife, i too can shoot to kill. nt

[Autumn]

2. I think she did an awesome job

I would do the same thing.

[CatWoman]

18. and she deserves a medal to boot

[RebelOne]

60. My thought exactly. That was one brave girl.

I would have done the same as her if I was threatened and had a small baby.

[Scairp]

85. She needs support

I'm sick to death of reading about women getting raped and killed inside their own homes and I'm glad this little girl got the upper hand and is around to tell the story. Goddamned thug got what he deserved. But the girl seems so alone. Where is her family in this? If she has no family I hope she has some friends at least. She must be at the end of her tether by now. New baby, husband dies and now this trauma. She really needs someone to lean on. I hope she gets it.

[Little Star]

3. She had no choice imho.

[William769]

4. I think she did the right thing.

According to the article I read she barricaded the door called 911 & was in fear for her & her babies life.

She did more than I would have done.

[Zalatix]

5. Perhaps someone should interview her?

Seeing as she's still ALIVE to talk about it.

The fact that such an interview could happen is a testament to the fact that she and the 911 operator did the right thing.

The 2nd Amendment is a beautiful thing...

[roguevalley]

29. she looks terrible, sad, drained and a child. I feel terrible for her.

a dead husband, a tiny baby, 18 and a man's death on her back. Poor little girl.

[iscooterliberally]

6. She is very courageous in my opinion.

I am glad she survived the encounter.

[raccoon]

17. Me too...and they said for 20 minutes those thugs went from door to door trying to break in.

How terrifying that must have been for her.

[catrose]

24. And where were the police for 20 minutes? <eom>

[iscooterliberally]

42. Probably using their SWAT toys to do a marijuana bust. They have priorities you know. n/t

[Swede]

44. She lives in a rural area.

[MedicalAdmin]

67. Ah, the libertarian part of the state.

That is with no services and no expectations of help...

[X_Digger]

71. Rural != Libertarian

Rural means low tax base, little money to cover a large county.

But hey, nice bigotry there.

[MedicalAdmin]

88. If libertarians get their way....

The entire country will have public services like that. I should have made that point clearer. Sorry bout that.

I'm a proud bigot against bigots and Birchers and a card carrying member of the Ron Paul for dog catcher committee.

[Bluenorthwest]

91. I am in DeFazio's district and our rural areas are far from law enforcement, our resouces

are getting slimmer each year, and so the time it might take for a car to get to a person in need could amount to a long wait. Democratic, not libertarian. Just rural and guess what, money is tight.
If action is not taken to fund our rural areas, expect more of this and without the good resolution.

[MedicalAdmin]

106. I agree.

Anyone voting libertardian should expect incidents like this to get worse, not better.

My post wasn't clear, was it? Sorry about that.

[Yo_Mama]

75. A very good question

Even 10 minutes is a long time in most areas (not in some rural areas).

I don't think she had any choice but to shoot, but what a horrible thing to have to do, and imagine how this feels with everything else that has happened to her.

Will she sleep in the future? This is not the sort of thing that you get over lightly - I knew a young man who had to shoot in defense of himself and others, and he never really got over it. It's not that he folded up or led an irresponsible life, but it always weighed on him.

Police officers are given leave and counseling when they have to shoot someone - this kid won't get anything like that, I imagine.

[FourScore]

80. Yep! n/t

[LadyHawkAZ]

7. Good for her! is what I think about it n/t

[Angry Dragon]

8. I feel your title is misleading

911 told her to do what she thought was necessary to protect the baby and herself
she did not shoot until they broke her bedroom door down and came after her with a knife

[pamela]

27. Exactly.

Plus, they found the dead intruder sprawled across the couch she had used to barricade the door.

I have mixed feelings about these laws. A few years ago, a young man entered my home and scared the shit out of me. I live in a condo community and he was visiting a neighbor, went out to his car for something and just got confused. I could have legally shot him in many states but I'm sure glad I didn't. This young woman seems to have taken extraordinary measures to avoid this outcome so I have no problem with what she did.

[Bluenorthwest]

92. I agree. The dispatcher has no authority to grant 'permission' what they did was

support her taking necessary action, supported her making a hard decision. She defended herself while they said 'defend yourself as you must'.
That is a far cry from 'shot with permission'.

[itsrobert]

9. With the details I have, she did the right thing

But where was that German Shepherd at? My dog would go berserk on any intruder like that.

[Lance_Boyle]

37. Mine would too, and I have no doubt they would be shot or knifed.

Dogs are like an alarm system. They'll let you know something is wrong, but 99% of the time they're not going to eliminate the threat on their own.

[X_Digger]

70. Her dogs were poisoned earlier.

Seems these guys had been planning this for a while.

[gvstn]

10. I agree with the right to defend oneself using any means available when under attack.

If there were actively coming at her, she had the right to shoot them to protect herself. A woman with a baby and 20 minutes on 911 to build anxiety it is understandable.

That said, she seems awfully nonchalant about the whole thing. I'd be a bit more upset if I killed someone.

[deutsey]

13. Well, to be fair, she is going through a lot, apparently

Her baby's father just died of cancer, she's on her own in an isolated area, two jackasses tried to attack her, and she killed one of them in self-defense.

I could imagine she'd be numbed out after all that. The real emotional trauma of all this may not hit her for a while. If I'm right, I hope she'll have a support system of some kind to help her through it.

[Lance_Boyle]

39. The minute they attempted forceful entry into the house she had the right to use deadly force.

At least that's the law in NC. Home invasion constitutes imminent fear of death and invokes castle law. I admire this woman's restraint in not shooting through the windows and doors during the 20 minutes they attempted entry.

[raccoon]

99. Me too. I wouldn't blame her at all if she had. nt

[OhioChick]

11. Good for her. I would've done the same thing n/t

[Tuesday Afternoon]

12. appears to be justifiable homocide.

[Arkansas Granny]

45. Sounds more like self-defense to me.

I can't imagine how terrified she must have been.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

51. Legally, I understand it to be basically the same thing

http://thomasvalonzo.com/blog/2011/02/self-defense-and-homicide-charges-in-louisiana/

[Ganja Ninja]

14. Good for her! They ought to give her a medal.

It sounds like these guys were real scumbags trying to prey on a grieving widow. The world is better off without them.

[CatWoman]

19. LOL

I said the same upthread

[RZM]

15. Seems fine to me

Baby or no baby, if someone kicks down your door without permission and comes at you with a knife, I'd say you are well within your rights to shoot to kill.

[Yo_Mama]

76. Of course you are within your rights.

The right to life of the criminal cannot be held higher than the right to life of the intended victim, and anyone who wants to designate self-defense as a crime has an ethical confusion, IMO.

Still, it's a terrible thing to have to do - and it may also expose her to vengeance. Not to mention trauma.

[EFerrari]

16. I scared off an intruder once

with my son on the other side of the wall, asleep. If I had had a gun, I would have used it in a heartbeat. There was no way I was going to let him hurt my child.

[RandySF]

20. This is why I support limited gun rights.

People should be able to protect their live and the lies of family members. By the way, I think it is more important to own a gun in small towns like this than a big city like SF. When everyone knows each other\'s business, it\'s more likely that word will get out to the wrong people that you live alone in a house or trailer full of a deceased loved one\'s pain killers.

[MFrohike]

21. Classic self-defense

Hell, she even took an extra step in calling the police. She's pretty much a model of a responsible person in terms of self-defense.

[WI_DEM]

22. I'd say it is an occupational hazard that the intruder should have considered

before he did the crime.

[slackmaster]

23. Subject line is misleading. The 911 operator specifically said she could NOT give permission.

Permission was given by the people when Oklahoma's Castle Doctrine law was enacted.

[apples and oranges]

28. Ooops!

Sorry about that

[Bluenorthwest]

95. Sort of a large ooops really.

A dispatcher simply does not hold authority to 'grant permission to shoot' and it is a tad extreme to claim that they do, and that they said that, when they said the opposite, they can NOT grant permission.
The OP seems designed to focus on the incorrect theory that 911 dispatchers grant permission to kill.
The article says they said the exact opposite of what you claim in the title. Oooops indeed. They said 'day' you said 'night'. Ooops?

[bigwillq]

25. I would do anything to defend my family

I think she made the right call.

[Liberal In Texas]

26. She did what she had to do to protect herself and her child.

The only thing about these stories is that it give the gun rights people cannon fodder (pun intended) when in fact more guns are used on their owners and families than intruders.

[CTyankee]

40. Having lost a family member due to another, violent family member I agree with you.

This will be used cynically for political advantage.

However, the right to self defense is unquestioned here. He was a violent criminal intent on harming her and her child. It really doesn't matter what weapon she used to stop him.

I do wonder where the police were...

[Tuesday Afternoon]

56. more guns are used on their owners and families than intruders.

do you have a link to verify that statistic?

[MicaelS]

30. I think it's great she and her baby are still alive and well..

And I think that she absolutely committed the correct AND moral act. Criminals don't want to get shot and killed they shouldn't break into people's homes.

I'm also glad his accomplice will probably get tried under the Felony Murder statute.

[LiberalAndProud]

31. I think she has seen enough terror in her life.

Widowed with a baby on Christmas Day at the age of 18 -- if you have no compassion already, even before she was terrorized in her own home, then you are a psychopath by definition. She was justified. I hope her nightmares will subside quickly, because I know that her terror did not end with the shooting.

[CTyankee]

46. I think being only 18 probably helped! That, and a strong sense of protecting herself and her child.

It paid off that she didn't think it through any more than she did. And she sounds like she knows her way around guns. Having guns in the home is a heavy responsibility. She did have time to get them from wherever they were (hopefully locked away). Unfortunately, if they had surprised her she might not have had enough time to get the guns and load them before these guys came crashing in. Not every victim who has a gun has it "at the ready" when an attack takes place, esp. if they have taken care to store the gun safely...

[ixion]

32. I'd say let it be a warning to people who like to break into other people's houses.

[mainer]

33. What's with her German Shepherd? He growled, but didn't defend?

Strange.

[Arkansas Granny]

52. Just because GSDs are regarded as being good guard dogs, it doesn't mean that all of them are.

[LanternWaste]

34. she seemed very sad about it

Watching her on the new last night, she seemed very sad about it.

Nor did she seem to take any righteous moral stances nor glee regarding her actions as others appear to.

[MicaelS]

35. Taking a human life is an awesome act...

That is why cops who commit an on-duty shooting often have to attend mandatory counseling. Cops get PTSD, too.

[Iggo]

36. KILL! KILL! KILL!

[spin]

58. Her choice was quite possibly Kill or be Killed. (n/t)

[Iggo]

81. I agree.

[slackmaster]

64. That's a great song, and The Groovy Guru (Larry Storch) was one of the best villains EVAR!

[nobodyspecial]

73. What should she have done?

Seriously.

[Iggo]

82. Just what she did.

[get the red out]

38. Mothers protect their babies

That's nature, I see no problem here.

There are many reasons that breaking and entering is a bad thing to engage in.

[msanthrope]

41. Poor thing. I wish her and her baby well. nt

[ieoeja]

43. I feel very sorry for her.

Husband dies on Christmas Day. Then she has to endure the horror of killing another human being ten days later.

Now she has to deal with are the memories and the effort of being an 18 year old single mother with little prospect for a prosperous future in a country that will celebrate her killing of these two men one minute then deny assistance to single mother's the next without ever recognizing the irony.

[KatyaR]

69. And to top it off, the second guy, who's been arrested on first-degree murder charges, is now free

on $50,000 bail.

CHICKASHA (AP) — A judge has set bond at $50,000 for a Blanchard man charged with first-degree murder after prosecutors allege his accomplice was shot dead during an attempted home invasion.

Grady County Special Judge Timothy Brauer issued the ruling following a bond hearing Thursday for 29-year-old Dustin Louis Stewart.

Prosecutors allege Stewart was with 24-year-old Justin Shane Martin, who was shot dead by an 18-year-old woman as he attempted to break into her Blanchard mobile home.

Oklahoma's felony murder law permits prosecutors to seek a murder conviction if an accomplice dies during the commission of another felony crime.

Read more: http://newsok.com/bond-set-for-oklahoma-man-charged-in-home-invasion/article/3637786#ixzz1idXwVXFI

He's due back for a preliminary hearing on January 20.

I can't possibly imagine how she must feel right now. I'd be terrified for my life and my child's. I hope she has family or friends that she can stay with for a while.

[Laelth]

90. On the contrary, I suspect Mr. Stewart will stay as far away from that woman as he can. n/t

-Laelth

[Sheepshank]

47. I think she would have done it with or without permission anyway n/t

[spin]

59. Well her choices were limited and her child's life was at stake...

I doubt if any jury would have convicted her even in a state without Castle Doctrine and if one did she would have received a light sentence.

[LeftinOH]

48. Don't go in to other peoples' homes without their permission.

Even if they have stuff you want. Do so, and you may not live to tell about it.

[RandySF]

49. I heard on CNN that she waited 15 minutes for the police to arrive.

Of course, it may have only felt like 15 minutes.

[spin]

61. If you live in a rural area you can't expect the cops to show up in five minutes.

That's why it's a good idea to own firearms in such a situation. Of course it's not a bad idea to own firearms for self defense in more urban areas where it is legal.

Unfortunately just owning a firearm is not enough. You should also have training in gun safety and be proficient with your weapon.

But firearms are not for everyone. First many people would be unable to shoot another person even if their life or the lives of their family were in danger. For those people their own firearm may end up being used against them. Also you have to know yourself before you decide to own a firearm. If you have anger management problems, tend to use alcohol or some drugs to excess or suffer from a serious mental issue then it would be wise to avoid owning such weapons.

If you live in a volatile relationship with a significant other owning a firearm may lead to a tragedy. Of course, if you have young children you have a responsibility to properly secure your firearms.

[slackmaster]

65. If the San Diego PD ever got to my suburban house in less than 20 minutes, I'd be shocked

The last two times I've called it took them 20 minutes or more.

[Nye Bevan]

50. She should be reimbursed for the cost of the ammo

out of the intruder's assets (if any).

[one_voice]

53. Good for her...

having said that...my heart goes out to her. She's been through far too much for her young age. I want to put my arms around her and take some of her burden.

[Ecumenist]

54. The intruder deserved to be shot...He presented and clear danger to her & her family.

[plcdude]

57. permission

is not correct. The 911 operator told her that she could not tell her to shoot but she should protect herself and her baby. She is remarkably strong individual given everything that has occured in her life this past month.

[Puzzledtraveller]

94. That she may have thought she needed permission

is troubling. As an overall impression on how people believe they can defend themselves in our society. Kudos to her for choosing to do so.

[moriah]

62. "When seconds count, the police are just minutes away." n/t

[frylock]

63. justified

[ChazII]

66. Echoing what others have said

she was completely justified in her actions. The intruders were scum and deserved what they received. She is a courageous young woman.

[ronnie624]

68. *

[The Genealogist]

72. I think she behaved exactly as she should have

She protected herself and her baby. Whatever the person at the dispatch office said seems a moot point. I do not know what I would have done, had I been in her shoes, but what she did took guts and bravery.

[maximusveritas]

74. The guy who got shot is the only one not supporting her

It's kind of a no brainer. There are some supposedly self-defense claims that are bogus, but this seems open and shut.

[Swede]

77. She was doing the only thing she could.

Protecting her baby. Help had not arrived,what else could she have done?

[cherokeeprogressive]

78. She wasn't "given" permission. The 911 operator was very specific about that.

Misleading.

That guy fucked with the bull, and got the horns.

Good for her. She defended her child, and her space.

[aikoaiko]

79. I think she acted reasonably to defend herself and her baby from grave harm.

[Survivoreesta]

83. Why did she even ASK for permission?>

Two men break into my house, bang bang!

[Lil Missy]

84. She did the right thing.

[AtomicKitten]

86. No question she did the right thing.

[Shankapotomus]

87. I think there needs to be a non lethal

but effective alternative to guns. I mean, we can't invent something that will stop an intruder every time and not kill them?

[quaker bill]

89. The use of force was justified.

Personally, I would like to think I would have fired the gun once, through the floor, to clearly demonstrate to the invaders that I had one. However what I would like to think I would do in theory might be quite different than what I would actually do if faced with the real situation. It is a shame that the woman was left with no choice, but she did what apparently needed to be done.

[lonestarnot]

93. Means never miss to kill the first shot.

[distantearlywarning]

96. Makes no difference what the 911 operator told her

A man was coming at her with a knife and she shot him in self-defense. She did the right thing and I feel sorry for her that she had to go through it at all. The burglar/rapist/attempted-murderer who had apparently been casing the place for days if not weeks received his just reward.

[pipi_k]

97. You do what you have to do

A young woman with a baby is no match for a guy (or two) with a knife.

If someone is trying to get into my house, I yell at them that I have a gun (which I would) and that if they don't stop I'll shoot.

Then I do it.

I don't know if I would consciously be able to shoot to kill, though. I can't even imagine what the rest of my life would be like knowing that I killed another human being, no matter what the person was trying to do. I would probably be torn between feeling guilty and being VERY angry at the person who didn't take heed of my warning, thereby forcing me to shoot him.

Well, at least she wasn't punished, and she and her baby are (physically) unharmed.

[guitar man]

98. She did what she had to

I just hope there are people down there to help that poor girl, she's been through a hell of a lot.

[great white snark]

100. Sadly she had to shoot...and she will never be the same.

The intruder took something more valuable than any item.

[lumberjack_jeff]

101. Aim center of mass. Period. If you bought a gun to "scare", then go get your money back.

THAT SAID...

The conditions leading up to the shooting were unique. Normally, an intruder won't give you 21 minutes prior warning to find your secured guns, load them, call 911, retreat to your bedroom and wait.

[Taverner]

105. Someone told me for defense, get a shotgun and get two kinds of shells

First round, birdshot. Most likely won't kill but will stop an intruder.

Second round, hard pellets (or whatever they call them) which WILL kill the intruder

Is this right?

[noiretextatique]

102. she didn't have a choice...the guy kicked in her door, and he had a knife and an partner in crime

who knows what those men would have done to her and her child? i certainly hope i never have to make that choice, but i would do the same thing.

[Taverner]

103. Castle defense, right?

Works for me

[Zoeisright]

104. Fine. But that doesn't take away from the 20,000+ people killed

by guns in this country every year.

I think celebrating her action is pretty sick, and just obfuscates the real facts, that we have too many guns and this culture is crazy.

And it's much easier to have a security system than it is to kill someone. Unless you're a bloodthirsty repuke.

[slackmaster]

107. The woman who defended herself obviously DID have a security system

She used it.

[flvegan]

108. Good for her!

Lots of folks buy the firearm, many take classes/training, few can actually pull the trigger and dispatch scum from this planet.

Congrats on being one of those few, young lady.

[HipChick]

109. She was 15, when they started living together her husband was 58...

fishy