I'm amazed more aren't talking about this despicable Eastwood moment.

[RedStateLiberal]

Last edited Fri Aug 31, 2012, 04:26 PM - Edit history (1)

Clint is a sick old fool!

This gesture is completely inappropriate and just downright nasty.

NFL players are fined for making this throat-slashing gesture in a game, yet it's somehow okay at a political convention?

Hey Clint, there are real nuts out there who would love to see our president dead. You are encouraging such irrational hatred with this inflammatory crap.

No mention of this from the M$M. Most people are only talking about how his speech was pathetically funny. This moment wasn't funny at all.


Edited To Add: Video

[tama]

1. It's not politically correct

But then again, politics are totally incorrect. Revolution.

[RedStateLiberal]

2. Well, I thought it was disgusting.

Not sure what your point is exactly.

[tama]

8. My point?

Fuck politicians.

[RedStateLiberal]

11. So, fuck civility?

Fuck respect for the POTUS?

Fuck being reasonable?

Fuck ideas in favor of hyperbole?

Fuck America then...

[tama]

52. Identity transfer?

Nothing personal, but it's pretty that political class of parasites are fucking people and the planet everywhere, as a class, to the point of cultural and ecological self-destruction. I agree with Mr. Eastwood, make them servants or get rid of them.

[RedStateLiberal]

57. This OP is about an inappropriate gesture made in reference to President Obama.

Are you saying the gesture is appropriate because you agree with the sentiment?

[tama]

68. Read the script.

In reference to politicians in general. He also said, not so in many spoken words, but clear and loud enough, than Romney should "go fuck himself". Not many here seem to have problem with that, on the contrary.

[RedStateLiberal]

74. Watch the video.

Who exactly do you think he was talking about when he said "let him go" and then made a throat slash gesture? The crowd then chanted "Let him go!" - Who were they talking about specifically at the RNC convention? Hmmmmm.

[tama]

81. I know that's how you think now

but won't do any good expecting me to agree. What I think and see is that partisan people during election times tend to get into mass hystery and go bat-shit crazy.

[RedStateLiberal]

86. So we're crazy to get offended by someone speaking at the RNC

on national television who makes a throat slashing gesture in reference to President Obama?

Yeah, we're just hysterical and you're the only rational person around.

[tama]

92. Artistic performances

are open to multiple interpretations. I prefer the art of interpretation that does not increase blood pressure but amuses, intellectually stimulates and empowers positive change, and yes I consider that also rational form of art.

[RedStateLiberal]

93. That's fine.

But you have no right to trash others who think differently or have different opinions. Try being constructive instead of resorting to disrespectful rhetoric.

In case you didn't notice, many more agree that what Eastwood did was inappropriate and just plain wrong. We are not bat-shit crazy. We are not being hysterical. We interpret it differently than you do and I don't see why you should have such a big problem with that.

Your opinion is noted. If you think it empowers positive change to continually excuse such reprehensible behavior and then tell anyone who thinks differently they are crazy or hysterical then civil discourse with you is obviously impossible.

[tama]

111. That is interesting and commendable advice

"But you have no right to trash others who think differently or have different opinions. Try being constructive instead of resorting to disrespectful rhetoric."

In that light, what about the sadly all-too common phenomenon of demonizing and dehumanizing (through character assassinations etc.) of all who are considered political opponents and enemies from the "us-against-them" mind-set? You may not have been long time on DU, but I'm positive that the phenomenon is not uncommon to you also on this site. This "tribal" instinct is built deep inside of us, been there done that also myself. I see the treatment that Clint is getting from many DUers and other pundits just one example of what you speak against in the quote above.

But more that issue about "having right", I believe it's not good for us to let our selves be carried with hate, if we aim to build society and relations that serve our needs. I know much about rage in face of injustice - and fear of losing what you love - and that such emotions cannot be and should not be suffocated and allowed to fester. And it's often difficult to find a positive manner or channel to let go of those emotions.

In this point of life I've learned that instead of becoming shocked and enraged about shows of racism and sexism and violent patriotism and other evils at Republican Convent etc, I can say to myself that such manifestations are beneath contempt and avoid reacting emotionally to such provocations in any way. In my view If I would let them affect me in any way and pollute my body with negative feelings, they would be already winning. People who are street-wise in violent and racist environments are wise to not lose their cool. Clint Eastwood, who has dedicated his art to study of violence and redemption from violence in the American mythos (see e.g. Unforgiven), is well known for his cool.

I hope this clarifies my motivation. I love the people here, but I don't like it when they lose cool and start to act as bad as those who they oppose. I want us to be better. I want us to win. To start playing win-win games keeping in mind that politics is primarily game of emotions, not ideas. When your emotions are no longer reacting to provocations and deceitful manipulations and controlled by others, your inner conviction, strength and compassion brings forth changes that you want and are joy for all of us.

[RedStateLiberal]

116. The 'treatment' of Clint you write about is appropriate.

He chose to speak at the RNC in front of that crowd on prime-time tv. He chose to say what he said and he chose to make that offensive gesture. Calling him out for his own behavior does not mean they're winning. To let them get away with uncivil behavior lets them win IMHO because it just contributes to the problem and encourages such rhetoric to escalate.

If Clint had made a truly inspirational speech about how we should come together and reject the politics of division and hate and rise above all of that, I'd be one of the first to praise him. He didn't. He did the exact opposite and there is no excuse for what he did. What he did is part of the problem and speaking out against that is what DU is suppose to be about.

Everyone should be held accountable for what they say and do regardless of their past achievements or artistic achievements. He made his bed and now he should lie in it.

[Walk away]

118. I just can't believe you are apologizing for a man who was clearly refering to the president...

as he pantomimed slashing his throat and encouraging the crowd to chant "get rid of him". I find your attitude bizarre. How would you feel about it if he cocked and fired his finger at the empty chair? Is that funny too? Maybe it would be artfully interesting to just burn the President in effigy. This behavior IS the problem. The out right hatred and threats of violence by the republican party leaders towards Democratic politicians is horrifying. Our leaders are in actual danger and have already been attacked physically because they represent us.

President Obama has received 400 times as many death threats as GWB. I have heard otherwise sane neighbors say they would be happy to shoot the president because he want to destroy the country and you are excusing more of this garbage?

I am appalled.

[tama]

125. As a translator

artist in the art of interpretation, I start from the whole, the big picture, and then work towards to details, letting the undefinable whole present in each detail determine the interpretation and meaning of each detail.

And id you need someone to hate and be appalled it, please just take it on me, never be silent, never listen but just hate and condemn with the fulness of your fear.

[Walk away]

131. I don't need to hate anyone (especially a self inflated and self appointed sponge)...

This president and his lovely family have received more death threats than all past presidents on record put together. Republican leaders fan the flames of that hatred and validate those lusting after their deaths with words and signals every day. Painting targets over Democratic house members faces and acting out slitting their throats is a very dangerous form of art. Especially when your intended audience believes what you are saying is a directive and not a performance piece.

It's a bit of a Freudian slip that anyone so passive/aggressive has misspelled the word "if" as "id".

I am not actually arguing with you as I doubt we will ever have a meeting to the minds. I just want to let anyone reading this thread know that I think your take on the subject is bunk.

[tama]

138. id

Thanks for spotting that slip. And the passive/agressive observation also hits the mark.

President and his family are for sure cutest people ever. That's not the point. As I said I'm not into personality cults, either positive or negative. Problem is, the current and next President of US aint' doing much, in the face of our common problems. Too choises, which are not mutually exclusive, we as people grow up as adults who take responsibility instead of expecting leaders/parents to fix our breakfast and/or push and pressure the servants of We The People so that they make changes happen and serve OUR will - not the banksters.

I got children, how about you?

[Walk away]

140. Well the cult of Clint Eastwood ieems to be alive and well at your house!

He's not even cute. But I get what you are saying. We should treat our President like a servant and it's OK when an obscenely wealthy old man gets a crowd to cheer about slitting our servants throat. This is because Clint Eastwood is more "we the people" than Barack Obama even though he just endorsed the ultimate shill of the Banksters, Mitt Romney.

Sorry, I don't agree.

[magical thyme]

154. ^^^^this.

I would add that Eastwood's appearance was not so much "art," however much he may have intended it to be, as an sad embarrassment.

I've had it with tv, radio and political personalities who use their platform to incite physical violence.

However rational and above-it-all Tama may be, there are legions of desperate and/or not too rational people out there who are armed and who are interpreting Eastwood's sad attempt at performance art as a call to action.

[WinkyDink]

135. Aren't you special?

[Chorophyll]

139. Good grief. This wasn't a piece of art. It was a speech made by a Republican,

who has held office as a Republican, at the Republican National Convention. That is how 99.9% of DUers are going to respond to it. This is a political web site for Democrats and most of us are concerned with getting President Obama re-elected. Throughout the RNC the president has been the subject of derision, lies, and covert (sometimes overt) bigotry. Mr. Eastwood's speech and delivery was bizarre and disturbing. Not only that, but he has obviously chosen to lie down with the proverbial dogs. If he wanted to be subversive, he could have refused to speak there and made some rational comments of his own elsewhere. OR, he could have spoken at the RNC and really caused a stir by saying he doesn't support Romney (I think he does, but whatever.) In any event, he should have been coherent. If you need to sit around conjecturing about what he might have meant, then he was ineffective.

[cali]

147. lol. I've been here a while and I don't think

I've ever seen someone post as much pretentious, self-aggrandizing text as you are incorporating into your posts. It's quite the accomplishment. Beyond that, I find the stilted quality of your language pretty interesting.

[WinkyDink]

134. Hyperbole much? Go away.

[Chorophyll]

67. Tama, every time I click on anything about Eastwood, there you are.

Interesting.

[msanthrope]

77. Tama's pro-Assange advocacy is just as interesting. nt

[tama]

85. Yes? n/t

[karynnj]

16. The op makes a great point, where is the outrage from the media

Eastwood, regularly called an icon, went fall over the line. Imagine if any Democratic star had suggested anything like that at the DNC convention - in prime time no less.

Do you remember that John Kerry had to distance himself from a crude, stupid, not even funny joke that Whoopi Goldberg made BEFORE Kerry was even at a fundraiser? It was right - both politically and personally - in saying it was inappropriate. Here, Romney and a huge part of the Republican party were all sitting there. Yet the only displeasure any of them have mentioned was that it prevented the Romney video being seen before his acceptance speech and that it was a political faux pas. No one is even calling for Romney to disown this piece of idiocy. (Note - I don't care that Eastwood is an "icon", Goldberg had her fans as well and they were not happy that Kerry did not say it was ok - the fact is that just as Kerry's comments reflected his basic decency, Romney's silence if it continues means he owns what HE allowed at his convention.)

[tama]

53. I'm not interested

in bipartisan power games. It's all distraction, sand in the eyes.

[DirkGently]

109. They'd drag Obama through the streets if he did that.

But Eastwood apparently impressed most of all by being overall incoherent.

[SalviaBlue]

33. So, who would run our government?

[tama]

54. We the people n/t

[Drunken Irishman]

63. Have you seen we the people?

Yeah ... I'll pass.

[RedStateLiberal]

65. Ok, this cracked me up.

Thanks for adding some levity to this thread!

[tama]

72. We are the best :)

But for some weird reason, we elect and give power to the worst of us.

[JDPriestly]

84. I think you will find a lot of people on DU think that President Obama is among the best of us.

There are websites for Republicans. This website happens to be for Democrats.

It's called the "Democratic" Underground.

[tama]

87. I'm well aware of that.

And that there are people who care more about issues than leadership cults and vice versa.

[SalviaBlue]

124. So it will be every man for himself?

[tama]

126. I'm sorry

If I could speak my native language with you I could express myself more clearly, with a single verb without person or number. In English I must use substantive 'community', in search of a better term, of what I'm talking about and what I hope is the message.

[SalviaBlue]

137. Yea okay. The things you are saying sound like anti government republican talking points.

I understand and give you credit for trying to communicate in a foreign language. I only know one language unfortunately.

What is your native language?

[tama]

141. Finnish

We are also indigenous people and there is my heart, with people of land. In my head and thought I can identify also with Europeans of all continents, as we have been conquered and occupied by Europeans and made parts of that culture, in my deepest heart with all life and being.

I have lived both ways of life, tribal community self sufficient and European individual dependent from social security checks from Government. I have studied the causes of our common problems more deeply than most. I'm not without pride - and foolish ego - but also not without ability understand and help for the little part where I can.

[Whisp]

136. omg.

loling here like crazy.

[zbdent]

127. not with Ann Coulter's

d*ck ...

[tama]

130. She's beneath contempt

unmentionable and thank you for never mentioning that attention whore again in my presence. Just don't give vile attention whores the pleasure of your attention.

[WinkyDink]

133. And you are here then why?

[slackmaster]

41. It looks like a movie director's gesture ordering the crew to abruptly cease production operations

i.e. "Cut!"

[regnaD kciN]

48. It looked more like a "kill the n****r" gesture to me...

Seriously, how isn't that seen as a threat to the President's life?

[slackmaster]

49. When your only response to everything you see is to knee-jerk label it as racism,

Everything is bound to look like racism.

[Squinch]

75. I don't think anyone posting said anything about racism.

Making a gesture to cut someone's throat isn't racist, but it is pretty irresponsible. He was gesturing that the President's throat should be slashed.

[Squinch]

76. Oh, so sorry. I missed the post above yours. Yes, they are discussing racism.

[regnaD kciN]

106. My "only" response...?

Oh? So you've looked over each and every one of my ten-thousand-plus posts, and discovered that each and every one is labeling matters racism?



I stand by what I wrote. Given this as a convention where some were showing the "ROPE" parody poster of the President, I don't think that an assumption of racism is that far off. And does that mean that you don't think threatening the life of a President is a serious matter?

[slackmaster]

114. If you seriously think that someone was threatening the life of the President, please call...

...the Secret Service.

I'm sure they'll be happy to chat with you about what you think you saw.

[tama]

132. Concept of "Guilt by association"

is all too easy to turn against the accuser.

And Clint has done more than most to cure the wounds of racism.

[tama]

60. It looks like symbol of decapitation

And as a matter of fact Eastwood is known for being director who does not use "action" and "cut".

[exboyfil]

88. I agree

This is a common gesture in the entertainment industry.

[Warpy]

95. It means "cut"

and is used in movie making and TV to say "time's up, get off the stage."

It doesn't mean anything any more nefarious than that.

[Mimosa]

99. Exactly. Actors/directors make the gesture in conversations...

When they think they're rambling on.

[RedStateLiberal]

103. So who was he gesturing at to tell them they're rambling?

Himself?

He had just said "let him go" before making the gesture. Who was he referring to exactly?

[Bolo Boffin]

144. Personally, I thought it was the audience he was directing it at.

He'd just made a big appeal to everyone, Democrats and Republicans and Libertarians, whoever, and then the applause goes on and on, and he makes the gesture and it doesn't do anything, and then the chants start and he's like, OK, OK, trying to get them to stop.

When he first came on, he told them to "save a little for Mitt." Of course it's open to interpretation, but that's how I took it at the time I saw it.

[regnaD kciN]

107. Sorry, but that's B.S....

I've directed films. I've worked on crews for other directors. Not once have I seen that gesture used to indicate "cut." Not. F'n. Once.

[Mimosa]

112. Age.

You're not Eastwood's age, are you? And you haven't worked with him, have you?

[randome]

3. Apparently the New York Times' website cut off the tirade before that point.

Even they know it was totally inappropriate but they are wrong to censor the news.

[RedStateLiberal]

5. Every clip I see on cable news also omits the gesture.

They cut away to the crowd after he delivers that line. Why cover this up?

[randome]

7. Fear. Not of Republicans but of having to report anything the least bit distasteful.

Cowards. All of them.

[marions ghost]

145. you're right

it has been cut from mainstream media...

[Cali_Democrat]

4. Good point

There are huge penalties now for players that do it in the NFL. College football is probably even more strict.

Yet somehow this fucker does it in front of millions at political convention and he's getting a pass.

Come one! He made a throat slashing gesture at the President.

[flamingdem]

97. At a minimum it's a show of tremendous disrespect nt

[RKP5637]

105. Agree!!! n/t

[jberryhill]

6. It is the Hollywood handsign for "cut"

What he meant is open to interpretation, though.

[RedStateLiberal]

9. Judge for yourself from the video:

He repeats "let him go" and does the throat slash gesture.

In context it was clearly meant for President Obama.

[jberryhill]

10. Yes I understand that

And on a movie set, it is directed at people too.

Again, whatever he had in mind, I do not know, and the gesture is certainly open to interpretation.

[Amonester]

14. I say, whatever is done on a movie set, you keep on a movie set.

That was not a movie set and so it was a clear disrecpect of the Office of the POTUS (in front of a large and, for too many, hateful public).

Shame on him, and the goons who paid him.

[Mimosa]

102. The gesture meant 'cut'

And that is all.

[RedStateLiberal]

15. So he wouldn't know that's inappropriate?

I have a hard time believing he could be so clueless. Eastwood is a smart guy. He knew exactly what he was doing - throwing red meat to the crowd of bloodthirsty Rethugs.

If he was metaphorically saying 'cut' or 'it's over' to Obama then why didn't he simply say the word "cut" while making that gesture? To interpret it that way is a big reach IMO.

[jberryhill]

17. *I* believe it was absolutely inappropriate and shocking

I also don't know what he was thinking.

Given the rest of his act, I don't know if *he* has any coherent idea what he was thinking.

Furthermore, I find it interesting that it mimics a gesture used in Mormon temple rituals until 1990.

I just wish I had this power to read others' minds in all instances that others at DU have.

OF COURSE I know what it looks like to me. I have no idea if it meant that to him.

Certainly, if he harbored a murderous intent toward the president, he had every opportunity to demonstrate that at the White House reception where Clint Eastwood was honored by President Obama with a Legion of Honor medal:

[RedStateLiberal]

19. I don't think he has murderous intent toward the president.

I think he was trying to get a reaction by playing to the worst of human emotions. The unbridled hatred that every single person in that crowd has for Obama based on lies and propaganda. Many of them would be perfectly happy if someone really slit our president's throat. He knows that and was hyping them up with the idea just to get a reaction. It was selfish and petty and obviously not thought through at all.

As someone who has been honored in such a way he should have known better.

[randome]

20. Judging by all the censored news clips that have gone out, I think your interpretation is not shared

by many.

[RedStateLiberal]

30. Martin Bashir just played the unedited clip.

First time I've seen it on cable news. He gave no comment on the gesture.

[randome]

44. Okay, then.

[jberryhill]

26. "obviously not thought through at all"

...as was the bulk of his pathetic routine, really.

Honestly, given the entirety of the act, there are only three alternative conclusions which tear at me:

1. It was an ingenious attempt to sabotage the RR campaign by portraying an angry man arguing with a fictional and inaccurate caricature of Obama, and was thus the greatest piece of performance art in political history;

2. He had no idea what he was doing; or

3. He said, "Fuck it, I'm going to steal the show and guerilla-market my new movie."

Maybe it was a combination of factors, but the notion that some complex calculation went into what may be for him a common hand gesture, strikes me as a hypothesis of low, but non-zero, probability.

That's just my take. Again, I believe it was appalling, whatever it was. But "whatever it was" he was attempting to accomplish overall is a real head-scratcher for sure.

[RedStateLiberal]

35. It doesn't take a complex calculation to make a gesture.

It was probably spur of the moment. He was playing to the crowd by giving them what they wanted.

In the context of what he actually said just before the gesture as well as throughout his rambling speech, the probability is actually very high that it's exactly how I interpret it, but of course you're free to believe differently.

He doesn't deserve any benefit of the doubt after that performance and I don't try to make excuses for something I find appalling. I call it like I see it.

[flamingdem]

100. Agree, it was in the context of other grotesque attacks like Boehners drag him out of the bar nt

[AlinPA]

110. Yes. He was playing to the hatred that the GOP has toward the President. His gesture says "kill

him". Whether or not he wants the President's throat slit we will never know.

[ZombieHorde]

22. Wow, another DUer that does not claim to have mind reading abilities.

There seems to be very few of us.

[jberryhill]

24. I learned it from you

Frankly, there are few things more irritating on DU than being told what one thinks, and I am trying to follow your example in that regard.

However, reading the mind of a professed zombie is a fool's errand anyway.

[ZombieHorde]

40. Wow, thanks.

However, reading the mind of a professed zombie is a fool's errand anyway.

That is because we have so many brains in our bellies that you never know which mind you are actually reading.

[Tom Ripley]

23. I also found it interesting that it mimiced the Mormon ritual lifted from the Masons

However, Grifter Smith lifted lots of mumbo-jumbo from the Masons

[jberryhill]

32. They have an answer for that, you know...

The apologia for that is, yes, the Masonic hocus pocus is based on ancient rituals which were "restored" by Joseph "Salamander" Smith and Bring'em Young. So, naturally, there are similarities.

The Utah Masons, as I understand it, won't let LDS join.

[patrice]

31. FUCK what he thought it meant. It's what the crowd thought it mean that counts!! & THAT is

pretty fucking obvious from their reaction.

[marions ghost]

39. Right-- it's obvious the crowd read the gesture all too clearly...

Watch the video--it's SO creepy. Of course Clint knew EXACTLY what he was saying and the FULL implication.
Anything else is just not credible...

The scumbag.

[patrice]

47. He also ended with "Make my day" with crowd enthusiastic participation, which is an obvious KILLING

reference.

You tell me how many people in that crowd repeating "Make my day" did NOT have the mental image of that BIG-ASS gun with that growling hateful face behind it, pointed at that despicable person on the ground, in their heads as they chanted "Make my day."
My guess is pretty close to zero.

Cue the choruses of, "Silly you! This does not matter. None of this matters."

[marions ghost]

73. I went and looked it up to get the exact words...

Here is the last part of the speech, for those like me, who didn't catch the end of it:

"... I would just like to say something, ladies and gentlemen. Something that I think is very important. It is that, you, we -- we own this country. (APPLAUSE) We -- we own it. It is not you owning it, and not politicians owning it. Politicians are employees of ours. (APPLAUSE) And -- so -- they are just going to come around and beg for votes every few years. It is the same old deal. But I just think it is important that you realize , that you're the best in the world. Whether you are a Democrat or Republican or whether you're libertarian or whatever, you are the best. And we should not ever forget that. And when somebody does not do the job, we got to let them go. (APPLAUSE) Okay, just remember that. And I'm speaking out for everybody out there. It doesn't hurt, we don't have to be (AUDIENCE MEMBER): (inaudible) (LAUGHTER) I do not say that word anymore. Well, maybe one last time. (LAUGHTER) We don't have to be -- what I'm saying, we do not have to be metal (ph) masochists and vote for somebody that we don't really even want in office just because they seem to be nice guys or maybe not so nice guys, if you look at some of the recent ads going out there, I don't know. (APPLAUSE) But OK. You want to make my day? (APPLAUSE) All right. I started, you finish it. Go ahead. AUDIENCE: Make my day! EASTWOOD: Thank you. Thank you very much.

Yeah....can you IMAGINE ANYONE on the Dem side saying this about the opponent? This is the difference between us and them. They would cheerfully kill us if they could get away with it. I can't imagine any politician short of the goose stepping mass-murdering kind who would say this or allow it to be said at their convention.

It is shocking, if we've got any capacity for that any more....

[patrice]

62. Not all "accidents" are meaningless. Co-incidence is not always purely by chance. nt

[DonRedwood]

12. as a director it means cut, as an actor it means "cut his throat"

and, as a whole society knows it as "kill him".

They know most people will know he means it metaphorically...but, see, he's also talking directly to the crackpots as much as anyone else...and those people can take those type of messages at face value.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

64. Clint Eastwood is an Oscar-winning director. But ...

Last edited Fri Aug 31, 2012, 05:59 PM - Edit history (1)

... he was observing the Republican operatives and stage managers on the sides frantically signalling "Cut! Cut! Cut!!" and inadvertantly copied their exact gesture.

Still, it is either in extremely poor taste, given Secret Service type sensitivities, or it was yet another indication that he was kind of out of it.

(on edit to clarify the made up bit)

[RedStateLiberal]

71. Do you have a source for this claim?

Link please, thanks.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

96. Get onto your duff and type a few keystrokes. Read wide-ranging and you learn stuff.

Really, it's not hard to find links, especially since I've now given you the search terms:

Clint Eastwood is one of the few who has directed a Best Picture Oscar winning movie twice, and is the oldest person among those

Eastwook won Best Director for Unforgiven and for Million Dollar Baby. Both of those also won Best Film.

As far as the funny bit about the stage managers guesturing, I'm sorry that was not obvious enough for you. It's my fault for not writing more words to pile it on a bit thicker or to put smileys in. I'm not much good at writing comic bits. I apologize. I'll go back and edit it.

[RedStateLiberal]

98. Yeah, I know about Clint - duh.

I would like to know if anyone is reporting that he was mimicking stage managers off screen when he made the gesture . Apparently that bit was sarcasm so nevermind.

[XemaSab]

18. That's what I saw it as

Clint's a director; it's a gesture that he probably makes all the time.

[bongbong]

56. Nope

You only see people doing that in "movies about movies" or in ancient history videos. Nobody making movies nowadays - or for decades - has done it.

[lob1]

61. I used to work in TV and I've never seen a director use a hand sign

instead of saying "cut". You say cut to get people, dozens of them, to stop work...actors, sound guys, cameramen. For example, a cameraman would be looking through the camera and couldn't see the director. Actors aren't looking at the director. A hand gesture is worthless.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

66. Live TV? I guess stage managers didn't have long pole with crook on the end to yank him off stage.

[jberryhill]

78. What comes after the verbal "five, four three..." in TV production?

[lob1]

80. That's when you're going on the air. No countdown before "cut".

[jberryhill]

82. At the start of a live production...

There is a countdown which stops at three, but something else happens after "three".

[lob1]

113. Everyone counts "two, one" to themselves, then the director points to

the person who's supposed to speak first. That's the equivalent of "action" in a non-live production.

[jberryhill]

117. Points? With what?

Since we know the use of hands is not allowed, as it apparently follows the rules of soccer.

[lob1]

119. What the fuck are you talking about? If you read my post (which you obviously didn't)

I said I've never seen a director use a hand sign for "cut". If you want to call me a liar, then call me a liar, but don't be cute.

[Hugabear]

79. Open to interpretation my ass. He knew what he meant - and how it would be perceived.

Eastwood wasn't filming a movie when he made that motion.

He made that motion while talking about getting rid of Obama.

I don't know how anyone could interpret the gesture as anything else.

I know he probably didn't mean the gesture to be taken literally - but he should also know there are a bunch of raving psychotics out there who could see that and become inspired to take deadly action.

[spanone]

13. i lost all the respect i didn't have for him

[Tom Ripley]

25. +1,000,000

[jsr]

21. The truth about Clint Eastwood:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/clint-eastwood-electrifies-rnc-crowd-interviews-obama-empty/story?id=17121634

howdymo1
3:17 PM EDT
Aug 31, 2012
Anyone that lives in California and can remember when Clint Eastwood became the Mayor of Carmel can tell you that Clint had a personal reason why he wanted to become Mayor. Clint bought a restaurant in downtown Carmel called Hogs Head. That's fine but Clint didn't pay attention that the restaurant didn't provide adequate parking and there was no place on either side to build (that's Clints ignorant move). One one side was a home that had been added to the national register of historic old homes. Clint wanted that property for his parking lot so he went to city, hired an attorney to have that home destroyed. The city denied him. Clint then gets royally PO'd, runs for Mayor and has that house declared blighted which gave him the opportunity to purchase the land for pennies on the dollar and tears down the house so he could have his precious parking lot. That folks, is the ONLY reason Clint Eastwood wanted to be Mayor of Carmel.

[oldhippie]

36. Wow! The only thing you got partially correct in that rant .....

... was you almost got the name of his restaurant right. It is/was the Hog's Breath Inn. Pretty much everything else you said is wrong. I know, I was there. I also knew his wife, Dina, before they were married, and she is a very bright, pleasant person.

[patrice]

27. I have not seen this. It's been edited out of the clip I picked up from youtube. When did it

happen, at what point, during the "speech"? What is the verbal content? Is he talking about the President?

[RedStateLiberal]

45. See this post for video:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021243081#post9

ETA: Video now added to OP.

[malaise]

28. Yep send this link everywhere

I expect Martin Bashir to say something.

He's discussing this now - how did they let this happen?

Bwaaaaaaah hahahaha

[handmade34]

29. much akin to

the "nobody has asked to see my birth certificate" and other absolutely inappropriate comments... maybe not pure evil intent by the individual doing (or saying) it but they are smart enough to know what it implies to many on an emotional level...

I noticed how the crowd was cheering whe he said let him go... but they went wild when he made the gesture???

[Robb]

34. Ah, the "Ratko Mladic."

Apropos.

[patrice]

37. Maybe those who are so used to having the BIG MIC of the big screen are just not in the habit of

thinking about how what they say will be understood by those who hear/see it?

Or, maybe they are aware of the ambiguities and that's why they got the BIG MIC in the first place?

Or, maybe they think that, because they DO have the BIG MIC, they are SUPPOSED to have it, so however whatever they say is understood or misunderstood does not matter?

........................

Time for new blood in the film world.

[slackmaster]

38. I didn't watch it, and I'll tell you why...

I don't give a shit.

[patrice]

42. One would think authentic don't-give-a-shitters would also not bother to post that fact.

Apparently, you do give a shit about something and maybe that something has prejudiced your don't-give-a-shit conclusion? Otherwise, what would be the point of posting?

.........................

Guess what, that's an honest question.

[slackmaster]

46. I posted that reply, and this one, to taunt people who are making something out of nothing

Clint Eastwood directs movies.

If you honestly think he meant something other than "Cut!" then by all means call the Secret Service. I'm sure they'll be happy to speak with you.

[patrice]

51. Leaving aside the whole question of the definition of "intention", perhaps you can see my point abou

t how it doesn't matter how he intended it to be understood? What matters is how it WAS understood, if not on a literal level, well then on shall we say a "no holds barred" emotional level. The variations in what a wide variety of people will "take away" from such an experience, especially a prolonged SHARED experience, result in things from shootings to propagating abusive language to nearly paralyzed depression.

[slackmaster]

55. Here's a Racist Clint Eastwood meme generator to keep the outrage going

http://memegenerator.net/Racist-Clint-Eastwood

[patrice]

59. Avoiding the point. Does it or does it not matter what people say and do? nt

[slackmaster]

70. It matters if an actual threat of some kind is made

If a threat is made against the President then it's time to call the Secret Service.

Otherwise it's just talk.

[patrice]

152. Ergo, being against "Shouting fire in a crowded, dark theater with no exits" & hate speech is

wrong.

[slackmaster]

153. There seems to be a major logic deficit on DU this weekend

[Cha]

43. Eastwood doesn't know it, but..

he's gesturing about himself and his performance fart.

[ailsagirl]

50. It is highly offensive and shows deep disrespect to the President

They were discussing that fact on NOW! with Alex Wagner this morning.

[Astrad]

108. They don't respect the president.

I didn't respect George Bush. When that Iraqi guy threw a shoe at him, I cheered. If they didn't have a problem with people not respecting president bush, I don't see how anyone can start complaining about disrespect to the office now.

[onpatrol98]

122. I was thinking the same thing.

I found every given opportunity to disrespect George Bush. I laughed until I cried at him ducking and dodging shoes flying through the air. I said horrible things about him and heard horrible things about him...and the only people who whined in protest were Republicans. I thought them thin skinned.

I felt his grasp of the English language surprisingly lacking to be from such a wealthy and educated family.

I'm sorry. I'm the wrong one to nitpick a stupid skit made by an old man on a stage who could barely get the words out without his voice quavering. I could barely understand him half of the time.

The skit made him look bad. I do not believe its intent was racist. I do not believe he was wishing bodily harm to the President of the United States of America. I believe he does not want people voting for the President. He wants him to leave the stage...his performance to end, he wants him to be fired. To make this out to be anything more than that is futile in my personal opinion.

If we want this President re-elected we have more problems than this old, no longer relevant, actor.

I feel like we're focusing on vacuuming the carpet while the house has started to burn down.

Just me, though.

[patrice]

58. It's pretty clear where the moral ambiguity of his oeuvre comes from and why, hence, this is

HIS crowd.

TTE, "Oh darn! An un-necessary war?!! We didn't intent THAT to happen." - or - "Gee whiz, the wrong person on staff, coughing into his own hand, when he delivered the breathing treatment to your lung-cancer patient husband with pneumonia?? We didn't intend THAT to happen. He was going to die anyway, so a month or two less was 'merciful'. Or - Oh darn, no polar ice-caps?? We didn't intend for the ice to disappear; we just couldn't be bothered to recycle/buy-fuel-efficient vehicles/vote for mass transit/reuse-recycle-restore"

There are as many example of the moral ambiguity of plausible deniability as there are moments of the day. Don't worry . . .

It doesn't matter.

[AlbertCat]

69. He meant...

"Cut the mike! Cut the mike!"


Well, he should've.

[Mmm_Bacon]

83. Anyone who would be "encouraged"...

... by this to do harm against the President is already unbalanced.

I also agree with the other posters. It's a common signal open to interpretation.

[marions ghost]

91. Yeah, and it's the "open to interpretation" part that's a problem

..."Let Him Go" (throat slice)

and

"Make My Day" as the closing message

---------

Sorry, not too many interpretations but one unless you're totally clueless...


This is Unbelievable.

[RedStateLiberal]

94. I know right?

It was so obvious exactly what he was doing - feeding the crowd to stir them up.

I'm trying to figure out why so many want to excuse Eastwood for this. Is it because he's not a politician and is a movie star/director. Because he's elderly? I just don't get it.

It's almost as if the mainstream media doesn't run with it then some people just excuse it as if it doesn't matter.

Can you imagine what would happen if anyone at the DNC did something like this. We'd never hear the end of it and Obama and every Dem would be forced to condem the action.

I'm sick and tired of seeing Rethugs get away with crap like this.

[marions ghost]

115. Ditto, my thoughts exactly

Many heads would explode if this took place at the DNC....

But nobody wants to touch it when it's on the other side.

And that's why they get worse and worse.

[lastlib]

89. "IOKIYAGOPEEFUCKTARD"

yeah, it's despicable, but the smartest thing we can do is ignore it and go destroy their ticket on election day. IMHO....

[grantcart]

90. I think the OP and the repliers have overlooked the most important part of this

It got the largest applause from the audience during the entire convention.



A sicker group of frustrated sychophants you could not find.

[flamingdem]

101. Oh I have to listen again, I didn't notice that. GOP = bloodthirsty

[flamingdem]

104. I call BS that this gesture is due to the culture of Hollywood and directing

In fact only the words CUT are used. If anyone uses that gesture they are an amateur. At best it's vaudville. In the context of a bunch of aggressive gun nutty troglodytes, it means I'm gunna get you... include make my day and the shot you, kill you, hang you high, drag you outta the bar idea is confirmed.

[tularetom]

120. Clint Eastwood is a miserable old low class piece of shit but

he was not threatening the President of the US.

What he was doing is pandering to a crowd of people even more miserable and low class than he was.

Don't worry about Clint Eastwood. He isn't worth the time or effort. The sorry old dipshit will be dead in a year or two anyway.

[marions ghost]

123. Yes it is threatening. Eastwood was pandering to the murderous tendencies

of some of his followers who watch TV. No other way to see it.

NO WONDER CBS & CNN and other big media have NOT covered this....! It's outrageous, and if done on the other side (which I can't even begin to imagine), there would be huge outcry--you know that's the truth!

Any candidate who would ALLOW somebody to do this at their convention is incredibly stupid.

A celebrity's legacy lives on after him, especially in movies. SURE it's about the legendary Clint Eastwood.
This will be taken as a courageous passing of the Devil's torch--to the haters and the evildoers who have NO problem getting the message.

It can't be whitewashed. This is an outrage.

[Raster]

128. agreed. he was just throwing a bit of red meat to the cheap seats....

...and at the RNC they're all cheap seats.

[AC_Mem]

121. Energetically speaking......

He is cutting off his own words and weakening his own energy and "cutting" his own throat.

And from what little I heard (had to change the channel quickly), he needs all the good blood and energy flow possible to his brain. Dude seriously didn't appear to be all there unfortunately.

Shine on,
Annette

[Billy888]

142. I understand that

I understand that

[Rosa Luxemburg]

143. SNL would do great with 'the chair'

[Rectangle]

146. One could very well interpret that as "Let's lynch the black guy".

[charliesheen327]

148. Spam deleted by Paulie (MIR Team)

[RedStateLiberal]

151. This thread isn't about Romney. (nt)

[spooky3]

149. If Rove had to apologize to Akin, isn't this comparable?

[Odin2005]

155. That's a dog whistle if I ever saw one.

Fuck you, Clint.