When someone tells you they are a "libertarian", what do they mean?

[DonaldsRump]

I am talking about in 2019. As far as I can tell, someone who tells you that they are a "libertarian" means that they are going to vote for Trump but don't want admit it.

However, that's my view. What do you think it actually means in today's world?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. They're Republicans who want to smoke pot.

[El Supremo]

2. Exactly! n/m

[DonaldsRump]

4. Good one! Perhaps I'm reading too much into it. n/t

[Jeffersons Ghost]

64. Libertarians are FAR more than that...

They are telling you they will fragment the GOP by not voting for Trump.

[Takket]

3. they are republicans who aren't homophobes

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. Sometimes they're Republicans who don't want to admit they're Republicans.

[louis-t]

60. Nah, those people call themselves "independents".

[Newest Reality]

5. My take...

If you put a bunch of libertarians on an island, chaos would soon ensue and it would devolve into some sort of Lord of the Flies scenario in record time.

Modern libertarian views are of the type that is based mostly on thinking fantasy Republican-like thoughts while blasted on some good reefer.

[Patterson]

6. The ones I know want to appear smarter than they really are

[PoliticAverse]

7. Ask them. Just like you should ask someone who claims to be an "independent". n/t

[Celerity]

9. 4,489,341 voters (a number that dwarfs all other 3rd parties combined, Greens included) in 2016

are evidence that this is following is not the case:

As far as I can tell, someone who tells you that they are a "libertarian" means that they are going to vote for Trump but don't want admit it.

Also, there are a multiplicity of different types of 'libertarians' running the spectrum politically from extreme Left to extreme Right.

I do not know what type your OP means, although I am going to hazard a guess and assume you mean the type who voted for the Libertarian Party.

[Anon-C]

54. Great point! There is Geo-Libertarianism which is a left Libertarian...

...philosophy quite at odds with von Mises, right Libertarianism.

[Hortensis]

68. 9 out of 10 aren't real libertarians, though, rather plain old economic

conservatives who want a more stylish, and to them less embarrassing, brand. Just as some here don't know what socialists are, many who claim to be libertarians have no real idea what that is.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

80. Oh, dear. And here I thought it was the evil Jill Stein

who somehow singlehandedly gave the election to Trump.

At least that's what's constantly said here. Who in the world is "Gary Johnson" who got three million more votes than Stein?

[lanlady]

10. they're people who think Ayn Rand

is the cat's meow.

[Greybnk48]

11. The one's I've met haven't a clue, other than they

think the govt. sucks and is ruining their lives but are vague as to precisely how.

[rownesheck]

27. Exactly.

I've had them say, "I just want the government out of my life!" To which I said, "ok. That means no roads, bridges, police, fire department, libraries, consumer protections, just to name a few things." To which they respond, "well, I don't mean like that!"

That just tells me they don't know what libertarian means. They just think it's cool to say they're anti government. Obviously, they are not.

[alwaysinasnit]

29. I always like asking if they like clean water piped into their homes and sewage piped out.

(Relevant to urban and suburban residents.)

[DBoon]

44. Libertarian Reluctantly Calls Fire Department

CHEYENNE, WY—After attempting to contain a living-room blaze started by a cigarette, card-carrying Libertarian Trent Jacobs reluctantly called the Cheyenne Fire Department Monday. "Although the community would do better to rely on an efficient, free-market fire-fighting service, the fact is that expensive, unnecessary public fire departments do exist," Jacobs said. "Also, my house was burning down." Jacobs did not offer to pay firefighters for their service.

-- The Onion

[Hortensis]

69. Lol. The Onion tries to parody the real thing and can't top reality.

[Greybnk48]

53. Yep! I've mentioned the same things, lol.

And a couple of the so-called Libertarians that have bitched to me about taxes, hadn't paid income taxes in years!

[dchill]

51. Nutshell.

[KG]

12. never met one who was very bright

[womanofthehills]

62. Agreed, and it's all about them

They could care less if little kids starve.

Ones I have known also stock pile food big time. One friends husband got called for jury duty and would give out no info on himself - so ,I would add, some are paranoid - the government is coming after them.

[madinmaryland]

13. It means they don't want to pay taxes, but still get all the benefits of living in this country.

In other words a freeloader.

[keithbvadu2]

32. A 'taker'

[Maru Kitteh]

14. Selfish asshole who doesn't want to be identified as a racist.

[Blue_true]

15. They mean that they are conservative, but like Pot, having access to birth control and having

the rest of society look the other way as they become anti-social.

In all my life, I have NEVER met a true liberal that was a libertarian.

[NCLefty]

16. Total Snowflake. Like a gay/black Republican.

Someone that thinks they're not stupid, like all those "sheep."

[Karadeniz]

17. I think the standard definition is they want unfettered liberty as long as it doesn't hurt anyone

Else. To me, that's both unrealistic and infantile. The ego wants freedom, liberty for itself. The soul wants that same thing for everyone, which is equality.

[rurallib]

33. I don't think they care about anyone else, just their own pleasure and 'liberty'

[njhoneybadger]

18. It means they're a phony bullshitter

[Jake Stern]

19. Long ago: "As long as what you're doing doesn't hurt me or infringe on my rights, go for it."

Now: A fancy way of saying Republicans want to get high or are cool with same sex marriage.

[struggle4progress]

20. "If I'm richer than you, I should be able to take your money;

and if you can run faster than me, I should be able to shoot you"

[ooky]

84. Best answer.

[dustyscamp]

21. They seem like Republican lite to me

Many feel that both sides of politics are equally bad. They love guns and hate feminism just not as badly as the Cons do. Any type of censorship to them is wrong. They're pro drugs

[Bradical79]

22. I can only speak from experience

From my experience there tends to be a certain amount of narcissism or privilege in their worldviews. An overestimation of their intellegence or abilities is often a thing. A sort of economic darwinism where they think they'll come out on top, or they are already in an extremely privliged system under the delusion they did it all on their own.

It's also often a front for racism/bigotry too, in wanting to eliminate protections for disadvantaged groups. They push a falsity that "the market" will make sure we don't go back to "whites only" businesses and the like, or that "the marketplace of ideas" will naturally handle things like hate speech and racist propaganda.

[UTUSN]

23. K&R for, good discussion o.p.

[smirkymonkey]

24. It means they're an idiot.

It is unworkable. They are selfish jerks who think they are superior to everyone else, but usually it is just the opposite.

They are almost always entitled, sub-par people who think they should be given special privileges because they are white, male and possess greater than average wealth.

[Hekate]

25. Conservative *hole who wants to smoke pot & pay no taxes for the common good...

My pov was pretty much set by talking to one back when my kids were still in daycare. When it came to K-12, he demanded to know why he should be forced to pay for public education when he had no kids and I had chosen to have my spawn. It was no concern of his how they got educated.

He was young, smart, a professional with a good salary -- and clearly could see no further than his personal toys. Bet you anything he was one of those people who voted against raising road taxes but found the time to phone my old boss in Public Works and gripe about the potholes on his street.

ETA: Have not found anything to contradict this experience since then. The sense of entitlement among libertarians I have met through the years is massive.

[Ohiogal]

26. A Republican on steroids.

[Bradshaw3]

28. Anyone whose intellectual development stopped after reading Ayn Rand

Usually around their sophomore year in college. Everything else is just fodder for defending that unreal worldview.

[alwaysinasnit]

31. Agreed. And "Atlas Shrugged" was one of the most boring books I've ever read. (Figured I'd read it

just to understand what the f*ck they were raving about.)

[Bradshaw3]

39. Definitely overrated

And they always seem to be the types who are aggrieved because they didn't quite fit in during college - until they discover others like themselves, then it takes over their existence.

[DBoon]

46. Sophmore year in college?

I think sophomore year in high school is more like it.

The perfect philosophy for a budding adolescent who thinks parental authority is the source of all the world's problems

[Docreed2003]

55. Exactly

[TheFarseer]

30. First and foremost

They want taxes cut and no regulations. Secondarily it might mean legalize weed, no foreign wars, pro-gun, cut welfare, Medicaid etc

[sharedvalues]

37. They want to live in America but pay taxes like they live in Somalia

They’re selfish. “Selfishtarians”

[keithbvadu2]

34. They have answers/solutions but no method to get there.

They have answers/solutions but no method to get there.

[Sapient Donkey]

35. Can never say for sure unless you ask probing questions

That seems to go for any label.

As for your question about Trump. The few self-described libertarians I know are not fans of Trump. I get the impression that they won't be voting at all.

[sharedvalues]

36. "Selfish assh*ole" libertarian

A libertarian is someone who doesn’t give a shirt about others.

A libertarian is someone who wants to be protected by American military and police and benefit from govt investment but wants to freeload and not pay for it. (Suggest they go live in Somalia and see what they say.)

[3catwoman3]

38. They mean they have never matured out of toddlerhood.

They want what they want when they want it, and they don’t want to have to obey any rules at all.

[czarjak]

40. They're not republican...

They just vote that way because democrats are the party of of the brown ones. (But don’t call ‘em republican, they’re libertarian, damn it) Ask one.

[FoxNewsSucks]

41. That means they are republicons who

will admit that they like to smoke dope and get laid.

They all do it, but only the libertarians will admit it

[PasadenaTrudy]

42. Guess I'm lucky, I've never met one n/t

[Leith]

43. My first libertarian was in 1976

A guy had a table set up outside the local college and called me over as I was walking towards the building. His main thing was the legalization of all drugs. I told him that I couldn't go for that and left.

Several years ago, there was a guy who was running for state office in CA who called himself a libertarian. His entire platform was to change the law in that state so that he could have pet ferrets (illegal at the time, I dunno about now). There was a problem with pet ferrets escaping into the wild and killing pets and wildlife so they were outlawed. So much for "responsible" ferret owners.

So, my view is that libertarians are thoughtless kooks.

[rufus dog]

45. Dope smoking MAGAts (EOM)

[aikoaiko]

47. To their credit many want to legalize weed and not have the US in interventionist wars

But in reality there are a lot of variations among libertarians.

[ecstatic]

48. Asshole?

[Bettie]

49. A Republican who is ashamed

to admit that they are 100% in favor of what is happening here.

[The Polack MSgt]

50. Racist stoners. Nt

[marybourg]

52. Anarchist lite

[Docreed2003]

56. Pseudo-intellectual assholes

Who think Ayn Rand's writings are the gospel to live by, who love pot, and don't want to pay any taxes.

[Eugene]

57. Hates paying taxes. Likes smoking pot.

Ranges from liberal Republican (Bill Weld) to complete wackadoodle.

[Coventina]

58. It means they're a hypocrite. They say they want small to no government

But they're pro military, pro law enforcement, and live on SSDI.

[ConnorMarc]

59. I became politically aware in the Bush II years

And from that time, self-professed libertarians were rightwing leaning and/or Republican leaning people.

They just don't want to be identified w/the negative connotations of the Republican party.

You know this is true because all their well-known pundits, commentators and author are all heavily on rightwing media outlets.

[louis-t]

61. Most of the ones I know are anarchists

even though they don't think so. They hate rules, hate regulations, hate taxes, hate anyone telling them what to do. Some idiot mortgage guy called me once and decided I needed to hear his political philosophy. He was a "free market" guy. I asked him "So, if someone makes a product and 3,000 people die because there was no one stopping them from putting out a shitty product, you're ok with that?" Before the words were out of my mouth, he came back with "Then no one will buy that product again." My exact response was "How very Republican of you to be willing to sacrifice 3,000 of your fellow citizens for your stupid ideology." Best comeback I ever thought of.

[jcgoldie]

63. They work shelving books...

...or something nevermind.

[MuseRider]

65. I have heard a lot of things said to define them

the most often "they are Republicans who smoke pot".

To me they are people who want "freedom" for themselves but rarely tolerate the thought that someone else who has that same freedom might use it in a way they do not approve then the make the tiny side step into the R territory.

They believe in community only if that means everyone agrees with them and you do not have to take care of anything that is not yours. I do not know how they think that would work but that seems to be something they covet. Mine is mine and yours is yours. The streets etc are cared for by who? Off again into R territory.

I have known a few with liberal tendencies but the problems are the same. Most tend conservative around here though. I am not sure they are solid with Trump but my best guess is most of them would vote for him unless there is a Libertarian running.

[jmowreader]

66. A true libertarian is a sovereign citizen writ large

Sovereign citizens believe the law doesn’t apply to them.

Small—l libertarians believe there should be no laws.

An example: A long time ago there was a drug called Elixir Sulfanilamide, which was the antibacterial drug Sulfa dissolved in diethylene glycol with raspberry flavoring added. It killed everyone who took it. The FDA really overstepped its bounds in getting this stuff off the streets; there was no law authorizing them to go door-to-door seizing the product but they did it anyway, and in the end everyone was glad they did.

Democrats and Republicans alike are united in this: no one should be allowed to make a medicine which, when used in accordance with the directions on the label, kills everyone who takes it. But libertarians are different: they believe the power of the marketplace will stop our generous and benevolent corporations from making such a thing, and consumers won’t buy it if it’s offered.

The Libertarian Party is a version of the GOP that believes no law impeding personal freedom should be allowed to exist...so, no drug laws, no traffic laws, and no laws saying you have to make cakes for gay weddings.

[Blue_Tires]

67. Either republicans in denial, or republicans who want to sound hip and edgy, or

republicans who don't feel comfortable saying the word "republican" in present company

[Hortensis]

70. Psychologists estimate perhaps 13% (?) of people are REAL libertarian,

as in a genuine, discrete personality type that's very different from the main two of liberal and conservative. There're a lot of spot-on description of facets of libertarian behavior here. Where some go wrong is in assuming conservatives who imagine they're libertarian are the real thing and describe their attitudes.

Libertarians by personality are REALLY different, and thank goodness there are so few of them. Studies have found they lack the altruism common to both liberal and conservative personality types, and their highest principle is maximum personal freedom. Most feel little or no duty toward others. Studies reveal most true libertarians regard altruism with contempt and as a sign of weakness and failure of true morality.

Intensity of ideology ranges from mild to extreme, of course. In some that personal freedom principle can allow some secondary competition, but for others it's their ONLY principle. Some might agree a few zoning laws are beneficial, maybe some schooling, others regard all constraints on individual liberty as invalid and destructive, including all taxation. Some would risk their lives to save someone else, depending, but many others would not and be proud of themselves for it.

I'm pretty sure the Paul Ryan who at 39 recommended Ayn Rand to his employees is the real thing, the Ryan whose economic plan was so extreme that even after several waterings down today's Republicans couldn't adopt it. (!) Just for instance, he never said so in public, but limiting medical care the way I believe he would like would have the positive effect of mostly ending the current epidemic of kidney disease (and of dialysis clinics) by letting those who couldn't find means of paying for their own care die off. Same for other health problems, resulting in a "cleansing" over time of society of many millions, including elderly, and thus leaving it healthier, stronger and more prosperous.

Compare that with a conservative who imagines he's libertarian because he resents paying taxes and is angry at zoning laws that are keeping him from building a bigger house on his lot.

In the vast majority of cases, they vote extreme economic right wing as the closest choice, have some sympathy with civil rights -- as long as they don't constrain anyone's behavior in any way, including paying taxes (a huge caveat), and are deeply contemptuous of progressive and most liberal ideology.

[klook]

81. Very good summary. Thanks. (nt)

[mathematic]

71. 60% rightwing populist, 20% market anarchist, 20% "both"

60% Rightwing Populist
Most common-man self-described libertarians are just paranoid rightwing populists that hate minorities, women, immigrants, corporations and the government that supports those things. Often found on the vile corners of the internet harassing minorities, women, and immigrants and ranting about how Big Whatever is keeping them down. Since 2016, as trump has made this the dominant brand of the republican party, more and more of this group have been willing to drop the libertarian moniker for something more accurate (like "republican", "conservative", "nationalist", etc)

20% Market Anarchist
These are the ideological true believers, like the Koch bros and Jeffrey Epstein. These people believe in some cracked notion of individual rights that means any two people can agree to do anything, even if one of those people holds literal life and death over the other one during the contract negotiation. ("The price of a glass of water to a dehydrated man in a desert? Everything that man owns plus $100B, to be worked off during the remainder of the man's life if necessary" ) . You'll get your free speech absolutists in this category too, as if "free speech" is more important than the equal application of the law, or something.

20% "Both"
You can't actually be both, which is why I put it in quotes. But don't tell these morons. These people are Fascists that believe in rightwing populism and market anarchism but only for favored political groups. They'll constantly shift their arguments depending on context to avoid admitting that they don't believe in universal free speech or association and they only like the market if it's to the detriment of minorities, women, immigrants, etc. They love tariffs and they'll tell you without breaking a sweat that it's to correct the market distortions caused by foreign competitors. Go figure.

Only the market anarchists are actually libertarian and, yes, they're probably voting for trump.

Libertarianism in general isn't only market anarchism, just as communism isn't the only form of socialism. Around the world, libertarian often means "left-libertarian" and encompasses many strains of leftist thought like anarchism and certain forms of marxism. So given the right context, a self described libertarian might be something vastly different than the types of rightwingers we associate the term with in america.

[brooklynite]

72. Largely it means an economic libertarian...

...who's philosophy is: "don't tell me what to do". Trump and his anti-tax, anti-regulatory policies appeal to that group.

[MurrayDelph]

73. It means they are conservatives with extra-crispy hypocrisy

They believe that government that works in their interest is right and proper, but government to help others is wasteful and immoral.

To be a libertarian mean you have an artificially-high and false view of their own value, matched with an equally-low and equally, false view of everyone else's.

[Brainfodder]

74. Some sprinkling of gun nuttery is all I can think of?

Their use of liberal as a replacement word for crazy lunatic is out of line, no one ever fires back at it?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

75. I'd ask them which way to the local fiction section.

Oh, wait, never mind. I thought you said "librarian." I'm fine with those.

Libertarians? Those are just greedy, selfish deluded assholes.

[kimbutgar]

76. They're selfish pricks who don't want to pay taxes or obey laws

[peggysue2]

77. They are the . . .

I feel fine, I've got mine and the hell with you crowd. Because FREEDOM!

[Scoopster]

78. It means they're selfish asshats. n/t

[saidsimplesimon]

79. Meaning:see Edward Snowden or

Glenn Greenwald, repuglicans of a feather, the creme de la creme or elite intellectuals (barf).

Behind those catchy slogans, they claim to be socially liberal and conservative on all other fronts. In reality, as far as the socially liberal claim, I have not seen voters of color flocking to their ranks, or any other person of sane mind. imo

[bucolic_frolic]

82. They mean Corporations should pollute as much as possible to make Libertarians money

They always say that's a private property rights matter, but have you priced up suing a corporation lately?

[alfredo]

83. It tells me:

He or she won't be very good dinner guests.

[SharonAnn]

85. The ones I know always vote Republican, so there's that.