What is the point of impeachment in the House when the Senate will not vote

[patricia92243]

to remove Trump from office. It makes impeachment just shaking fingers at him and saying "Bad Boy."

I realize it is upholding the Constitution, but without the Senate removing him from office, nothing is really accomplished.

[vlyons]

1. public opinion is changed

impeachment has such a stench that many voters might decide that Trump and his corrupt enabling spineless GOP senators need to get booted out of office.

[Zoonart]

5. Agreed.

I think that the GOP Senators are not only seeing the handwriting on the wall, but also opportunity for themselves to move up and out from under Moscow Mitch and Caligula.

[TwilightZone]

9. Nah, I think they'll just dig in.

Like so:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212512307

[SlogginThroughIt]

2. So not impeaching him means not sahking fingers at him?

So doing nothing is better than doing something?

I think that having investigations in the public no matter impeachment or not is going to be the best we can do. If impeachment offers more avenues to uncover things then it is worth it. Senate will likely not convict... Unless something is uncovered that forces them to do it. We likely do not uncover it without impeachment as I believe that gives us special abilities to go after items .

[johnp3907]

3. Whatevs.

[TwilightZone]

4. It's largely a political act.

We can't entirely rule out conviction (though, it's extraordinarily unlikely), so the intent of impeachment then becomes political: expose as much of Trump's corruption as possible to motivate Democrats and other groups likely to support us in 2020 and influence the small number of swing voters.

We kind of hide that behind "but, but, the Constitution!", but it's not an insignificant factor. We have to get rid of Trump and the most likely opportunity is the 2020 election. Plus, Trump has made it pretty much impossible not to impeach him, which might be by design.

[BumRushDaShow]

6. Many have been trying to say this here on DU

but...

Realistically however, it is still necessary as it will not only provide a record of what might constitute "high crimes and misdemeanors", but will also permanently mark the record of the individual holding the office of President. And in this instance, it would be a textbook illustration regarding how the severity of the hyperpartisanship, that was stoked by billionaires like the Kochs and the Mercers, negatively impacted our system of government and its functioning.

[hlthe2b]

7. Honestly. Your assumptions are days old (LOL) but seriously this is so rapidly moving...

and shows definite signs of resonating with the public (impeachment polls are now favoring), that it would not take much to push Senators, who for the most part are not up for two or four years from now to find sufficient cover to change their vote. Especially so as polls change, as they hear from constituents, and especially if the House serves up a very incriminating and well-constructed, well-articulated case. Not to mention that it is no big secret that behind closed doors Republican Senators largely hate Trump.

The fact that even a few Senators are putting the brakes on any lock-step defense tells me the old assumptions need to be reevaluated.

And then, of course, there is that whole DUTY TO DEFEND the CONSTITUTION thing that still means something for many voters.

[Fiendish Thingy]

8. You're behind the times

Fear based defeatism is so last week- don't you know that the current trend is to fight courageously to defend the Constitution?

Seriously, the President is an active security threat- doing nothing and just waiting for the election is not an option.

[DinahMoeHum]

10. 23 Senate Republicans are up for re-election in 2020.

Just sayin'

If they don't vote to convict, use that against them in 2020 and kick. them. out. One way or another.

[TidalWave46]

11. I'm not as confident as you that the senate won't vote.

One way to be certain of that would be to follow the Republicans lead and not impeach. I have no interest in that.

[bdamomma]

12. We have began to have the wheels

turning it's the consciousness of Americans now Impeachment is out there.

He is desperate and will do and say anything to hold on to power, he is not above the law and WE CAN GET HIM OUT.

Okay let the repigs go down with him, and let McConnell say the same stupid stuff he always says. We know his number, and so does House Speaker Pelosi.

Let's keep on calling our Reps and Senators. They hate when the American people get into the mix, but we are now. Do not give up.

Let's put the fear in them.

[TNLib]

13. Trump is pretty much self impeaching

He's an unstable loon that continues to blatantly break the law.
Congress really doesn't have much of a choice at this point. They have an obligation and constitutional duty to move forward.

[ritapria]

14. Impeachment is a Punishment that Lasts throughout History

Bill Clinton did not deserve impeachment but he's stuck , alongside Andrew Johnson, with the historical opprobrium of being only the 2nd President of the United States to have been impeached ...I believe he should have been censured - not impeached ...Trump richly deserves impeachment - even if he is not convicted by a corrupt , cowardly Senate ……...

[bigbrother05]

18. The GOP suffered after that because it was a fit of pique

They were having a snit and wanted to show they were in charge. It was clear to the voters and only the hard core 35% stuck with them.

With Trump, it's clear to anyone outside of that same 35% that Trump is a disaster and is now actually threatening the security of the country. With all of this and after 2018, not impeaching would put the Dems into the same go along/get along swamp as Mitch and the boys in red.

Nancy is playing this like a high stakes poker, reading the tells and knowing when to go all in.

[dalton99a]

15. Because it is wrong to do nothing.

Besides, it is the constitutional duty of the House

[vlyons]

16. Be mindful of all those good Germans, who stood by

and saw their relatives and neighbors carted off in the back of Nazi trucks for one reason or another. Silence implies consent. Impeachment is a punishment.

[lark]

17. Critical to get the information out to the public and to formally impeach him.

The more of the truth the public hears, the more they will turn on drumpf. Most Americans revere the constitution and this was a blatantly unconstitutional move with huge national security implications. Repugs want this to be hidden, they don't want he truth revealed so it is absolutely critical that it get a hearing - which it will in the House. That is where we get our win, not in the Senate. Yes the Senate is run by Russian Repug who approve of the shake down/cover up and drumpfs unconstitutional actions because the party that it benefits is theirs. But not holding a hearing st all makes it look like they are scared to death and drumpf will demand they hold it so repugs can do their best (with McConnells' traitorous assistance) to impugn the facts and let this president shred our country's laws - to protect his and their incumbencies.

[Moostache]

19. There is no other responsible course at this point...

The "transcript" was an indictment...
The "complaint" was essentially an arraignment...
The "investigation" is now necessary to put the testimony behind the arraignment / complaint road map...
The "trial" will follow the official Articles of Impeachment
The "verdict" will haunt the GOP forever if they allow naked lawlessness to go unchecked and vindicated.

Even if Trump survives, the campaign ads write themselves for the next 3 cycles for anyone craven enough to vote for acquittal.

This case is already laid bare, and the key facts are stipulated - Trump, by his own admission and words sought to use leverage of the office and the blocking of CONGRESSIONAL APPROVED MILITARY AID to strong arm a foreign government for personal gain and help in the 2020 election. Giuliani is running around shrieking at anything that looks like a camera to say "HEY, I did not do this stuff alone...THEY told me to do it!"

Article One - Abuse of Power (using official capacity for personal gain)
Article Two - Violation of Oath of Office (directly soliciting interference in election process)
Article Three - Illegal Obstruction of Congress (secret classification of political records)

And NONE of that even STARTS to plumb the depths of depravity in his official acts and the Mueller Report or his status as an unindicted co-conspirator for 2016 Campaign Finance violations (awaiting a nice 4-5 year sentence a la Michael Cohen)...

If I were Trump, I would be talking to Mike Pence about a pardon following resignation about now...

[patricia92243]

20. If he is not removed from office he will be emboldened to do ANYTHING; because

he knows the House will not impeach him a second time. We will have made a monster ten times worse than the malignant buffoon that he is now.

I have seen and appreciate the posts on this thread. I guess I am just very, very afraid. Actually, terrified.

[durablend]

37. If we didn't do anything

He'd double down on everything because nobody is doing anything about it. And why the heck shouldn't he?

[RobinA]

38. I Agree With You

completely. I think this is a risky, risky move. But apparently its OK to be roadkill on the high road.

[VOX]

21. The point? To take the offensive in the WAR against democracy and the rule of law.

And make no mistake, today’s Republicans are hell-bent on transforming the U.S. into a chaotic mix of fascism, oligarchy and white supremacy.

If not for Democrats re-taking the House last year, this country— as we know it —would have gone under.

[wiggs]

22. with impeachment and trial, there's a LOT of information still not yet made public

that would be. You saw the huge poll numbers swing just from the publicity of this one new issue. There will be other related issues that come up that build on the cheating, lying, corruption, self-serving behavior...and the most reprehensible, corrupt potus in history will all of a sudden be without defenders and friends...and there will be more defections and whistleblowers.

All kinds of positives will result: possible resignation, possible decline in 2020 support, possible choice not to run in 2020 (the country doesn't deserve my brilliance), possible senate conviction, possible willingness to prosecute after 2020...and we might get closer to some kind of approximation of truth and justice.

Plus...impeachment is just one avenue of investigation. There are still counter intelligence investigations, state investigations, congressional investigations, and investigative journalism. These all may combine into an overall understandable story of the worst political scandal and treachery in american history.

Without impeachment, it's a battle of media outlets again and willing ignorance of 35% of the nation.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

23. I see what you're saying

BUT it at least puts a black mark on his permanent record and the House can say that it attempted to hold Trump accountable for his misconduct and the Senate Republicans refused to. I mean, I think that it looks WORSE if Democrats don't do *anything* about it at the end of the day. It also *may* give Trump second thoughts about making further efforts to try to influence the 2020 Election.

[TDale313]

24. This stuff comes out and is on the record.

And you put the Republicans in the Senate in the position of having to defend Trump’s behavior and publicly refusing to act on his crimes. It’s incredibly important whether it gets Trump out of office early or not.

[blitzen]

25. I could not disagree more n/t

[blitzen]

26. To not impeach is to set a precedent that such actions are not impeachable n/t

[berni_mccoy]

27. How can anyone here ask that question when you see how Trump and his cronies are reacting?!

Do you think they want this? And if they don't want this, there is a reason for it. Because it might actually work.

Sometimes when you don't know doing the right thing will have the outcome you think should, doesn't mean you shouldn't do the right thing.

JEEZUS!

[PJMcK]

28. Who knows what'll happen?

We live in interesting times.

Trump is going to be held accountable for the first time in his life. That alone is worth the effort.

More importantly, an impeachment inquiry will expose more criminality. It's inevitable.

Thankfully, Speaker Pelosi has more experience than you or I and she deserves our support.

[Claritie Pixie]

29. Nope. A couple of things ---

1. Impeachment by the House, regardless of whether or not the Senate votes to convict and remove him, will do great damage to him in the eyes of the American public. We're already seeing it.

2. The impeachment process itself diminishes his power with world leaders who are inclined to make agreements with him, thinking he could get re-elected and they'll have to deal with him for several more years. Think China. It's now uncertain that he'll be around, so why should they?

Oh and another thing - he'll have Impeached forever tied to name and his presidency.

Besides, I wouldn't be so sure the Senate won't convict. The American public will be the deciding factor.

[DetlefK]

31. Imagine the amount of dirt the impeachment-proceedings will fling at him in 2020.

What was the topic of th 2008 election?
"Anybody but a third term for George W. Bush"

The 2012 election?
"Obama vs the soggy cardboard"

The 2016 eelction?
"Anybody but Hillary"



With endless hearings hammering every single piece of dirt there is about Trump (and there is so, so much), what do you think the 2020 election will be about?

[gopiscrap]

32. puts a historical stain on this administration

gets more facts out, weakens his presidency and also the republican party

[struggle4progress]

33. "It's time to come together"

[ProudMNDemocrat]

34. I beg to differ.....

Senate Republicans will be on the record regardless of a vote or not, of their undying support of a CRIMINAL president.

Democrats running for their seats will use that lack of action to do the right thing against them as the facts come forth of CORRUPTION and COVER-UP. lying, threats of retribution, obstruction of Jusice in this matter, etc.

McConnell has to be sweating bullets about now about this because he knows that House Republicans will be on the record supporting Trump. Many of them will be defeated in 2020.

[customerserviceguy]

35. I agree

Also, it will take away news coverage that our nominees so badly need. If you're a supporter of O'Rourke, Harris, Buttigieg or someone lower in the polls, coverage of this outshines their messages.

In addition, Joe Biden has to come up with a new message, the one he's used so far boils down to "I'm the sure thing to get rid of Trump, and that's pretty much what we need to be able to get back to normal again." Sen. Warren has said that we need more than just getting rid of Trump to repair this country, and offers her plans as the mechanism.

Having Congress take over responsibility for getting rid of Trump means that the election is not the focus of the Democratic Party anymore, and it pretty much freezes the race in place as we go into the most crucial part of the primary season.

[MurrayDelph]

36. If they don't, then we run on it

House Democrats voted to improve gun safety, improve healthcare for America, and lower drug prices. But the Senate hasn't voted on any of these issues that affect Americans every day. Why?

<picture of Mitch McConnell, and voiceover of him saying> "I decide what gets voted on."
And <name of Republican Senator up for re-election> lets him get away with it.

And now Moscow Mitch is preventing America from determining whether the people sitting in the highest offices of our country are paid assets of an enemy nation. Remember when Republicans claimed to be the party of Patriotism and the Rule of Law? What happened to that Republican party?

<picture of Mitch McConnell, and voiceover of him saying> "I decide what gets voted on."
And <name of Republican Senator up for re-election> lets him get away with it.

Next year, you have a chance to fix it: Mitch McConnell can't be Majority and <name of Republican Senator up for re-election> aren't in the Senate any more.

<picture of Mitch McConnell, and voiceover of him saying> "I decide what gets voted on."

Not for much longer, Mitch. Not for much longer.

[no_hypocrisy]

39. To have an impressive list of campaign issues for 2020.

[Dave Starsky]

40. It's being accomplished right now.

Approval for impeachment has skyrocketed in the last few days, and Trump has become geometrically more unhinged and incoherent.

I cannot see this clown limping along until November of next year. He will probably even be pushing up daisies within six months. He is obviously not a healthy man, and his handlers appear to be able to do nothing about it.

[GulfCoast66]

41. I was strongly against impeachment. Ukraine changed my mind.

Mainly because it is easy to understand, obviously corrupt and the fucker for some reason thought it was a good idea to admit it.

Pretty much what changed Pelosi’s mind I would guess.

The senate will not convict but impeachment will not really hurt him where 3 weeks ago it would have hurt us.

His stupid memo changed the entire paradigm.

[Liberal In Texas]

42. Lets him and them know they can't get away with whatever illegal thing they do.

The Siberian Candidate figured he skated after the Mueller report and he could just go ahead and enlist foreign help for the next election.

If the Senate doesn't hold a vote or whatever it will be on them to let this criminal off.