The gloves are coming off.

[Firestorm49]

If you thought it was nuts before, just wait to see what Barr is going to cook up at Trump’s orders. Our current state of affairs is already mind boggling and it’s only going to become more intense as the election gets closer. The gloves are coming off and it’s sink or swim time so hang on tight. The coming months will be a doozy.

Are we fortunate or cursed to be witnessing the most disturbing times of recent memory? I fear for our future, as it may only be sustained after a period of great national pain. And which party brought this to bear? They intend to win at any cost. I hope we are as prepared.

[Aristus]

1. We are living that ancient Chinese curse:

"May you live in interesting times..."

[Firestorm49]

3. 👍

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. First thing I thought of.

I think I would like to be bored for a change.

[Aristus]

8. Me too.

As much as I loved having Barack Obama for President, during his administration, I could go entire days without thinking about politics.

[volstork]

11. Indeed.

That now seems like the greatest luxury: to know that someone responsible isn't going to drive the damn car off of a cliff...

[pandr32]

13. + 1,000,000

[orangecrush]

24. Same here!

[RKP5637]

39. Really keeps me tense, all of the time. I wake up at night and quickly check the news to see if the

ass has done anything to endanger the country even more.

[brush]

2. Agreed. We have to be ready for their evil-beyond-measure deeds to come.

This is the most tumultuous time in the political climate since the 60s/mid-70s period.

[RKP5637]

4. I actually think it's even worse. n/t

[brush]

7. It hasn't taken to the streets yet though. Perhaps that's because of much protest energy happens...

on social media now.

[FirstLight]

18. Also, Economic Distress keeps us from taking those big leaps...IMO

Can't go protest if you are gonna lose your job, can't afford to travel anywhere to protest if you are broke.
(Also, can't protest if your bosses see you and take action or you get arrested for protesting...)

I know that's one of my biggest reasons

[RKP5637]

31. It feels like the noose is tightening to keep everyone under control. I don't like it

one bit!!!

[RKP5637]

32. Yes, could be! Good point!!! n/t

[flibbitygiblets]

44. interesting point. Although I can think of a lot of countries that have social media and still

are apt to take to the streets. Something about the Americans; maybe that we spend so much time working (hard to take time off to protest), and then only have limited time on weekend to catch up on household chores, family time etc?

Or maybe we're just lazy. I would happily go to a large protest, have been to small ones too, but there's nothing like participating in massive, organized, multi-city protests, like the Women's March, feels exhilarating and actually accomplishes something!

[wnylib]

28. So do I.

[loveandlight]

6. as a country we've been through worse, let's stand strong

We made it out of the Palmer Raids in the 20's. Made it out of the McCarthyism in the 50's. We have another big test now. Let's all stand strong and not give up the fight.

[albacore]

22. I'd like to agree, but EVERY Empire falls eventually...

... and the way history is moving faster and faster these days, our number could be up. This situation is unparalleled since the late 1850's. The population is divided into two polar and hostile camps. We're like two people trapped in a loveless and bitter marriage. I don't see any way out besides divorce.
The USA may have outlived its lifespan.

[RKP5637]

37. I was thinking earlier today, maybe there is no solution. Maybe the country has to be divided,

perhaps.

[wnylib]

46. I refuse to accept that. Look at

our history.

The US has been through a civil war, 2 world wars, the Great Depression, presidential assassinations, McCarthyism, and the polarization and violence of the 60's and 70's.

In the 1930's the nation was polarized between Nazis on the right and communists on the left. Communist party membership grew as a reaction to the 1929 crash and depression that followed. On the right, some very promonent Americans supported Hitler -- Henry Ford and Charles Lindburgh for example. The Klan grew and lynchings were frequent and not prosecuted. WW1 soldiers camped out in DC for pay they never got. Whole families roamed the country without homes looking for work and living in lawless camps.

We pulled through that period with leadership that took action. There's a reason why FDR was elected 4 times.

We can get through this too. It will not be an easy fight. Technology today is far different from those times. But we have access to technology too for countering disinformation. We need to be clever, creative, strong, united, and solidly committed to our values and principles.

[albacore]

47. I taught history for 30 years, so I agree... we made it through those horrible crises...

But.

We've always had a vast Middle, who weren't concerned with politics beyond the local level. We've always had a slow dispersal of news, due to old technologies. Up until WWII, we were mostly insulated from world crises.

Now, we are deeply divided..there IS no middle. And the news is 24/7/365, and the technology is just getting faster and more divisive. Fox and Rush and Hannity didn't exist in the earlier times, and if they did, their audience was small. This election, I expect "deepfake" videos that show Dems doing god-knows-what showing up everywhere on social media. We're more involved in the various wars/insurgencies/clusterfucks than ever... 700 bases overseas and a military budget above what it was in the Cold War.

Rome fell... so can we.

[wnylib]

48. You are right about the differences

between past crises and today. You are right that empires and nations do collapse. Part of the reason why they collapse in addition to other factors is that a substantial enough number of people stop believing in or caring about the values and principles they were founded on. It is easier for them to go with the flow when they encounter opposition. They give up and adapt to the new circumstances.

I hope from your words that you have not yet given up on American democracy in the face of the Trumpist and Russian threats to it.

[albacore]

51. Close.

You wrote about "values"... and that may be the real sticking point. Half the country thinks abortion is murder....half that it's a Constitutionally guaranteed right. Half the country - or more - thinks the world is 10,000 years old. 40% of Americans support trump... and all that means.
WTF are our shared values?
Democracy? When one candidate has 3 million more votes than the other and loses...that's not democracy.
Rule of Law? When a President can't even be investigated and apparently doesn't have to follow any laws or rules.
Sense of community? When half the country supports cutting the social safety net for our most unfortunate people?
Racial equality? Not even close. Racial animosity is as bad or worse than in the 1950's
Lots of other areas of conflicting deeply-held values.
I have to admit that I'm really DOWN right now, but this shit is getting to me.
I do NOT know how we get back to the country we were after this. A large percentage of us have shown that they live in a different country within our borders.
How do we ever shake hands and get along?

[Xolodno]

54. All empires do eventually fall.

With that said, I don't think there will ever be a singular dominant nation again.

Economic union's will be the next "empires". We had a leg up with NAFTA, but the EU, even without the UK, is going to gradually become more assertive.

And lets be honest, we did this to ourselves. We have a significant portion of the populace that believes in chem trails, faked moon landing and immunity shots cause autism...once a good portion of the populace goes nuts, its pretty hard to recover.

[wnylib]

55. Very sadly I have to agree with most of

what you said about the number of people going nuts and the difficulty or likelihood of reversing that.

Your reference to economic unions rather than empires reminds me of the book 1984. It's a long time since I read it but wasn't the world divided into 3 or 4 large political and economic spheres, continually at war as if it was a sport to root for? Or maybe i'm thinking of a different dystopian novel.

I'm not sure how much I like the idea of economic unions vs empires. After all empires mean the subjection of nations and cultures under a dominant one. Economic union spheres as a replacement for empires might mean something similar.

Yes there are benefits to free trade groups among nations but I think some of the extreme nationalism in today's world is a reaction to the economic downsides of free trade for middle and working class people.

When I was involved in a workplace union some years ago we talked about the effects of global economics on unions and on people within nations and between nations. Our work involved interacting with people in a way not likely to be replaced as happens in manufacturing. But we still felt that our incomes were affected by income changes in the country as businesses relocated in the global economy.

We predicted that a day might come when people would rebel. We discussed whether it would be 3rd world people rebelling against exploitation by developed nations' businesses and demanding better pay and standards for themselves. None of us foresaw a backlash in the form of isolationist nationalism and "foreigner"xenophobia spreading in the world.

[orangecrush]

26. This is worse

Than any of those.

This is a president attempting to impose a dictatorship.

[SharonClark]

30. and destroy the environment

and deny women's rights
and divide people on race and ethnicity
and demolish public education
and stack the courts with unqualified crazies
and encourage gerrymandering and voter suppression
etc

[orangecrush]

35. Yes.

[RKP5637]

36. Definitely what is happening IMO too! And he has a lot of people backing him. Those that

know what is going on and think they will benefit, and then the stooges that are useful for their vote and cheering at rallies but will lose everything in the long run.

[orangecrush]

38. Yep.

[SWBTATTReg]

9. I agree...the other side will become more and more desperate, and more prone to 'mistakes', so, ...

besides being a time to be very aware and be wary and protective of one's backside, we must be ready to jump into the void when mistakes are made by the other side and the crooked rump and his cronies. Supporting the fragile house of lies is like a house of cards, all it takes is one tiny breeze, one tiny push and the whole thing comes collapsing down as it should.

We're seeing evidence of this ... more and more people are ignoring the crooked administration's extortion or pleas to avoid testifying to Congressional subcommittees, more senators from the other side are denouncing idiotic doings of this corrupt administration, poll numbers continue to be weak and are getting weaker by the month, and time is on our side...as more and more crime wrongdoings, more corruption, etc. are revealed.

[empedocles]

10. Just overheard on MSNBC a former prosecutor suggesting the barr move to criminal

investigation, 'gives comfort to both sides'.

[Grand juries do not always behave the way expected. Easy explanation of barr doing it anyway, is simply, traitortrump ordered barr to do it].

[maxsolomon]

12. It doesn't give comfort to this side.

We're well down the road to an Autocracy, and it's not funny.

I'm counting the CIA as the last un-cowed agency in the Federal Govt., and now DOJ is coming after them.

[empedocles]

16. It seemed to be the ex-prosecutor's clear meaning. [I should have spelled that

out more clearly]. As in Watergate, a 'Grand Jury' can speak loudly.

[orangecrush]

41. That might end badly

But not for C.I.A..

[maxsolomon]

45. You're feeling more confident than I am today.

TRMS really bummed me out last night.

[ffr]

14. We need mass protests, patriotic protests in support of our constitution.

[luvtheGWN]

19. Maybe it's time to form a grass roots Constitution Party,

secretly backed and funded by billionaires like Tom Steyer and the Hollywood aristocracy -- you know, similar to what the Kochs and their cronies did for the Tea Party.

Just a thought.......

[ffr]

20. Uh, I was thinking more along the lines of actual protests and marches in pubic

We didn't need funding and don't need it for future marches. Just take to the streets in coordinated fashion to protest the abuses to our Bill of Rights.

[spike jones]

23. tomorrow Refuse Fascism

https://refusefascism.org/2019/10/06/outnow-getinvolved/

[ffr]

33. This needs its own thread!!!

[spike jones]

53. I don't know how to do that.

And I don't live near to any of the planned events, so I am going to the local farmers market where thousands of people spend Saturdays and hold signs to resist fascism and impeach Trump/Pence.
I will probable be standing alone, but I will not be a "good German."

[B Stieg]

15. Barr may be more dangerous than tRump!

Unlike the pResident, he's not totally inept and is damaging the nation.

[RKP5637]

42. Same thought here. Barr is smart, educated and knows the angles. tRump, is just a loud mouthed

thug.

[nvme]

17. Like Every Tin Pot Dictator

Trump is going to round up political enemies. I grew up in Miami and was told stories of Fidel Castro rounding up dissent and jailing them. What crime will KING TRUMP commit next?

[The_jackalope]

21. I expect criminal charges to be laid against:

Obama
Hillary
Brennan
Chris Steele
Robert Mueller

and possibly against:

Yovanovich
Taylor
McCabe
Schiff(?)

And maybe even Strzok and Page just for shits and grins.

Barr is Sauron at the DOJ. We are at the beginning of an utter nightmare.

[wnylib]

25. Are we fortunate or cursed as witnesses

to this time in history?

IMO we are cursed that it is even happening at all. But we are fortunate if democracy wins out in the end. It will depend on each of us taking whatever small or large roll in the struggle that we can. Democracy will not win by some vague good fortune but by our commitment and efforts toward that end.

[world wide wally]

27. Trump will behave as a petulant child and Barr will be his yes man

The shit is going to fly big time.

[Timmygoat]

29. And I was hoping

Not to have to see Barr (aka the gorilla) ever again.

Sorry gorillas I know it is an insult to you.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

34. Jiu Jitsu anyone?

"Jū" can be translated to mean "gentle, soft, supple, flexible, pliable, or yielding". "Jutsu" can be translated to mean "art" or "technique" and represents manipulating the opponent's force against themselves rather than confronting it with one's own force.

[orangecrush]

43. Sounds great

Hope it works in application.

[0rganism]

49. "an empire toppled by its enemies can rise again..."

"...but one that crumbles from within? that's dead. forever." -- Zemo, CA3: Civil War

[EndlessWire]

50. It's heartbreaking.

He has been a wannabe dictator from Day One. We have been watching him gain power and skill, from throwing up trial balloons to bringing up crisis after crisis to divert our attention. My belief is that he will not leave power willingly, no matter what rule of law we apply. I believe that he will impose martial law, declare any election that he doesn't win to be invalid, and ultimately, we are going to see the military involved in some way against the population.

What is a continuing sh*t show is how the Republicans are putting Party over Country. With every passing day, through outrageous speeches or utter silence, they are selling their souls to a dictator. What is wrong with them? It's like every last one of them, to a man, is a coward.

They got caught with sticky fingers in the cookie jar, didn't they...it's hard to believe that all these Repubs actually want to live under a Trump dictatorship. Who chooses a dictatorship over the democracy that we had? It wasn't perfect, but look what we have now!

[Skittles]

52. you get it, EndlessWire

welcome to DU