HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Is "senior moment" now po...

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 11:27 AM

Is "senior moment" now politically incorrect?

On The Newshour last night, a guy who ran a program for entrepreneurs over 60 said how startled he was when someone used it. "How would you like to be a member of a group who was characterized that way?" Or words to that effect.

I find it a MOST USEFUL phrase. It's a way to explain why you can't introduce your neighbor to your friend because you can't bring up one of their names. It's not because you're generally stupid, or don't really care about one of them. It's a "senior moment!!!"

It's such a good thing that laughter is good for your health, because there are so many funny things associated with aging!!

EDIT after reading a couple of replies. My assumption is that the use of the phrase is self-referential. I've never heard it used in any other way.

58 replies, 2840 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 58 replies Author Time Post
Reply Is "senior moment" now politically incorrect? (Original post)
LAS14 Nov 2019 OP
redstatebluegirl Nov 2019 #1
jberryhill Nov 2019 #2
LAS14 Nov 2019 #3
jberryhill Nov 2019 #5
shraby Nov 2019 #4
lpbk2713 Nov 2019 #6
braddy Nov 2019 #7
Vinca Nov 2019 #8
crickets Nov 2019 #9
Initech Nov 2019 #10
scheming daemons Nov 2019 #16
Initech Nov 2019 #17
RhodeIslandOne Nov 2019 #54
mokawanis Nov 2019 #11
PoindexterOglethorpe Nov 2019 #12
RobinA Nov 2019 #24
LAS14 Nov 2019 #36
LAS14 Nov 2019 #35
PoindexterOglethorpe Nov 2019 #37
OriginalGeek Nov 2019 #40
Hortensis Nov 2019 #13
LAS14 Nov 2019 #14
Hortensis Nov 2019 #19
LAS14 Nov 2019 #20
Hortensis Nov 2019 #22
scheming daemons Nov 2019 #15
mackdaddy Nov 2019 #18
LAS14 Nov 2019 #21
dware Nov 2019 #23
DavidDvorkin Nov 2019 #25
dware Nov 2019 #26
klook Nov 2019 #30
SWBTATTReg Nov 2019 #51
DavidDvorkin Nov 2019 #53
Hermit-The-Prog Nov 2019 #27
LAS14 Nov 2019 #34
Hermit-The-Prog Nov 2019 #39
LAS14 Nov 2019 #42
kimbutgar Nov 2019 #28
randr Nov 2019 #29
TheBlackAdder Nov 2019 #31
Dream Girl Nov 2019 #32
LAS14 Nov 2019 #33
Dream Girl Nov 2019 #41
LAS14 Nov 2019 #45
Dream Girl Nov 2019 #48
LAS14 Nov 2019 #49
Dream Girl Nov 2019 #50
LAS14 Nov 2019 #52
LAS14 Nov 2019 #57
Dream Girl Nov 2019 #58
Pathwalker Nov 2019 #38
LAS14 Nov 2019 #43
DavidDvorkin Nov 2019 #47
stopbush Nov 2019 #44
LAS14 Nov 2019 #46
frogmarch Nov 2019 #55
customerserviceguy Nov 2019 #56

Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 11:30 AM

1. Oh for heavens sake! I am 64 years old and yes, I have Senior moments, and I say so.

That is going way to far I think. What I have issues with is outright age discrimination there is a lot of that on this site.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 11:31 AM

2. Everyone is free to decide what is appropriate for them

 


If someone might take offense at what you have to say, then it is up to you to consider whether or not you should proceed to say it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jberryhill (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 11:35 AM

3. How would I know in advance??? I added the para below to my OP.

It's such a good thing that laughter is good for your health, because there are so many funny things associated with aging!!

You do understand, don't you, that mentioning a "senior moment" is almost always self referential???? That is, people say "I'm having a senior moment," not "You're having a senior moment."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Reply #3)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 11:50 AM

5. Life is full of risks

 

No one goes to jail for making a bad impression, and I doubt there is anyone who has never inadvertently offended someone.

One general rule concerning the social risk of potentially-offensive colloquialisms is whether you are in the company of complete strangers, whose sensitivities you would not know, or among friends who would forgive you for an inadvertent faux pas even if the expression was one they do not prefer.

Emotional intelligence is hard to quantify, and one frequently hears the complaints of persons with a determined lack of social skills concerning the workplace rules about "unwanted sexual advances" - well how do you know? Of course, if one is unable to gauge various contextual and social cues, which ability one may not have for various reasons, then it is probably safest to refrain from taking that risk in any event.

The "self referential" exception to potentially offensive expressions is a tricky one too. Dave Chappelle engaged in a lot of humor which some people found to be funny, and other people found to be offensive, regardless of the fact that he is an African American. YMMV.

Should you offend someone with this phrase, then just send me a PM and I will offer you my forgiveness and moral absolution upon receipt of $5 via paypal for each incident, if that will make you feel better. Otherwise, you might just offend someone, somewhere, sometime, and you'll have to live with the eternal shame of it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 11:45 AM

4. Actually, that's the least of my worries at the age of 77.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 11:51 AM

6. At 75 I sometimes say senior moment, geriatric moment,



or some times brain fart. I don't stress because I don't recall who was in a certain movie or who lives on what street. It's been that way as far back as I can recall. The day I go to the grocery store in my underwear is when I will think I have cause for concern.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 11:53 AM

7. All this PC perfection needs to apply to everyone equally.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 12:11 PM

8. That's nuts. I'm a walking and talking senior moment.

I forget your name - senior moment. I forget the name of an actor - senior moment. I put trash in the recycling bin - senior moment. If not for senior moment I'd be calling myself a blithering idiot.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 12:12 PM

9. Not if I say it about myself.

Describing someone else with the same phrase is a bit rude, imo.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 12:17 PM

10. I just call them "brain farts". Simple, effective, and doesn't offend anyone!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Initech (Reply #10)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 01:17 PM

16. It might offend people with gastrological problems.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to scheming daemons (Reply #16)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 01:19 PM

17. Like Trump?

You can always tell how his bowel movements are impacted (ha!) by how angry his early morning tweets are!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Initech (Reply #17)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 07:37 PM

54. Trump inhales his own farts

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 12:21 PM

11. I have a t-shirt that says "senior discount please"

so I don't mind the phrase "senior moment".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 01:00 PM

12. Because no young person ever has to grope for a word

or temporarily forget something, right?


In reality, the thing we call a "senior moment" is hardly confined to seniors.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #12)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 01:57 PM

24. Yes

This whole « senior moment » thing is a case of confirmation bias. No 20 year old who forgets why they walked into the kitchen thinks they are having a senior moment, but people who think they are getting old...oh, senior moment, I forgot what I came in her for.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RobinA (Reply #24)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 04:33 PM

36. I'm afraid you're mistaken. I and my friends have been 20 and we've been aged and we know.

It's a reference to a real phenomenon, diminishing memory of names of things and people. And we can deal with it by getting embarrassed or by smiling about it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #12)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 04:31 PM

35. I'm afraid you're mistaken. I and my friends have been 20 and we've been aged and we know.

It's a reference to a real phenomenon. And we can deal with it by getting embarrassed or by smiling about it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Reply #35)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 04:40 PM

37. So you are saying no young person ever fumbles for a word?

Or walks into a room and can't initially remember why he walked in?

While it may not be as common as when older, trust me, because I've been 20 also, it happens at all ages.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #37)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 05:28 PM

40. My wife is 63

and she's been doing that for the almost 40 years I've known her.

OF course, I am always aware of what I'm trying to pontiac.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 01:12 PM

13. As Pointexter says. At the headline I was fine. After reading the

posts, I realized it was of course feeding ageism by ascribing our failures to many millions of others whose memories are just fine.

I hate sounding like one of those uber-"woke" idiots, but I would never say, "sorry, I'm having a female moment" because I didn't remember where we parked; and if my husband ascribed his unwillingness to pay retail for a new car to "having a Jewish moment," we'd be having a little talk.

So, thanks to you, LAS14, my answer is that you shouldn't ascribe your failures to others just because they're your general age. But it will be perfectly okay to say, "Sorry, I'm having an LAS14 moment."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hortensis (Reply #13)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 01:14 PM

14. I like to make it clear that it's because of the natural...

.... process of aging, and NOT because I don't really remember my neighbor's or friend's name. At the other end of the spectrum, if I don't laugh it off with this dismissive phrase, they might start to worry that I'm coming down with true dementia. If someone that I knew well couldn't come up with my name (e.g., the violinist in my bi-weekly chamber group), and just said "I can't remember," I would start to worry.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Reply #14)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 01:43 PM

19. Sure. My husband's said that kind of thing plenty of times.

It's pleasantly self deprecating. And cognitive and memory decline with age affect so many it's natural to look for it. But those who aren't affected shouldn't be smeared with an assumption that they must be.

My aunt who lived to 103 had a good memory all her life and was handling all her own financial affairs, mostly on line, through her 100th birthday, needing assistance with increasingly swift decline only in the last couple of years. Ascribing her memory lapses to senior moments when she was 30 years younger would have been inappropriate.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hortensis (Reply #19)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 01:47 PM

20. What you say makes sense, but laughter in the face of aging is such a blessing.

Someone observed that all humor is cruel. Maybe so. (Although people point out that puns aren't cruel, etc.) It's a puzzle.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Reply #20)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 01:51 PM

22. It certainly is. :) And sometimes humor's just wry, kind, wise.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 01:16 PM

15. Fighting battles like these is why we lose

 



There's nothing wrong with using terms like "senior moment".


We need to stop this. Nothing turns off the middle more than doing stuff like this. And we can't win elections without the middle.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 01:20 PM

18. I have occasional bouts of CRS myself.


That is a "TLA" (Three Letter Acronym) for "Can't Remember ..." oh some S word. I'll think of it in a minute.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mackdaddy (Reply #18)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 01:48 PM

21. :-)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 01:51 PM

23. I'm having a senior moment with this senior moment thread.

LOL

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 02:39 PM

25. This makes me so angry

That I want to jump up from my chair and hop around the room shouting!

If I could. Since I can't, I'll just sit here and forget about it. Which I'll probably do very quickly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #25)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 02:45 PM

26. You just made my day

with your comment.
Thanks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #25)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 03:01 PM

30. Don't look now, but

there’s somebody on your lawn! Mine, too — oh, wait, it’s just the Halloween decorations I’ve forgotten to put up....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #25)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 06:14 PM

51. Ha ha heh...thanks for the nice laugh. Very healthy way of handling this...take care!! By the...

way, I always explain away when I forget stuff (and we all do), that I'm having a senior moment, and I don't take offense in describing myself in this manner...doesn't bother me one bit.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #25)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 07:32 PM

53. A lot of our friends, old just like us, use that phrase to refer to themselves

I don't get the upset.

I don't grok this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 02:48 PM

27. asked my late mother once, "Did you ever forget things when you were young?"

"Senior moment" is simply an expression of fear of losing mental sharpness with age.

You don't put much emphasis on forgetting things when you're young. When you're old, you question each failure to recall as if it's the beginning of the end.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hermit-The-Prog (Reply #27)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 04:28 PM

34. Are you saying that old people don't really find their memory..

... for names of people and things diminishing? If you are saying that they don't, then you're mistaken. You say it is "simply an expression of fear." No, it's not. It's a reference to a real phenomenon. And we can deal with it by getting embarrassed or by smiling about it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Reply #34)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 05:16 PM

39. memory lapses occur at all ages


Uh-oh. You can’t find your keys. You forgot the name of your newest neighbor—again. And exactly where did you park your car at the mall, anyway?

An occasional memory slip is normal, says Johns Hopkins geriatrician Sevil Yasar, M.D., Ph.D. But as you age, these “senior moments” may leave you wondering whether you’re heading for dementia—the loss of memory and thinking skills severe enough to interfere with independent living, often due to Alzheimer’s disease or other brain changes.

“Stress, an extra-busy day, poor sleep and even some medications can interfere with making and recalling memories,” Yasar says. “And we all have moments when a name or the title of a movie is right on the tip of the tongue, but those events are different from the kinds of lapses that may be warning signs for dementia.”
[ ... ]

-- Memory Lapse or Dementia? 5 Clues to Help Tell the Difference

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hermit-The-Prog (Reply #39)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 05:39 PM

42. This is an article about distinguishing normal memory lapses...

... from Alzheimers. It doesn't say anything to suggest that normal memory lapses don't increase as you age. To claim otherwise is to put elderly people in a bind. They've either got Alzheimers or the don't REALLY have more memory problems than they used to. Ergo, no sympathy, no understanding.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 02:50 PM

28. At a certain age you have so much knowledge and information in your brain that it

Takes awhile to find the information in the file cabinet of your brain?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 02:51 PM

29. As long as millenial moment is ok

I have no problem with it. I need to use the phrase from time to time

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 03:06 PM

31. IDK, I'm 58 and considered a senior in many stores. It's definitely appropriate as I notice it more.

.

Younger it was impulsiveness or distraction, but now it's just more to do with age-related brain function.

I'm performing long intermittent fasting which is shown to stimulate HGH and Brain Regenerative Growth Hormones.

Occasional two-day fasting promotes the intense development of stem cells.

.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 03:22 PM

32. I'm early 60s and work in tech. Ageism is very real and we don't need phrases that reinforce the

 

doddering old person stereotype. I suppose if you are older and retired, it might not hurt...but I don't really find the phrase all that cute.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dream Girl (Reply #32)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 04:26 PM

33. It applies to a real phenomenon. That can cause embarrasment or smiles.

I choose smiles. I seriously doubt that there are very many times when a 30 year old blanks on the name of a friend or neighbor.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Reply #33)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 05:35 PM

41. "Senior moments" may be a way some people cope with the beginning of

 

cognitive decline. I think if I forgot the name of a neighbor or friend, I might want to get evaluated. I still maintain that I don't want to be lumped into a category of cute, but harmless, forgetful, doddering people just because I'm older. That said, everyone has brain farts, I sometimes have issues with word retrieval and recalling certain facts regarding projects I'm managing, but I attribute that to stress and multiple workstreams...I work with lots of 30 year olds who are much the same.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dream Girl (Reply #41)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 05:52 PM

45. Senior Moments do NOT imply "cute, but harmless...doddering people."

" if I forgot the name of a neighbor or friend, " "Forgot" is probably the wrong word. Momentary block is more accurate. If it hasn't happened to you yet, then you're either not yet old or one of those lucky ones. It sure has happened to LOT of my cohort. And it's not a reason to go get evaluated. If it can't be acknowledged in a light hearted way, then it becomes a source of embarrassment. Not good.

You know what? If we're lucky to live long enough we're going to become "doddering" too. Muscles weaken, joints become painful. We should not be forced to pretend this doesn't happen. It doesn't make us "harmless," so watch out!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Reply #45)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 06:03 PM

48. Gotcha. I'm maybe at the younger end of "old"

 

Not saying it won’t happen to me but I’m surrounded by young people and would rather walk through biting coals than attribute a mental lapse to my age. Maybe that’s just me and my situation. Others don’t seem to have a problem with it. I’m just acutely aware of ageism and not looking to give anyone ammunition regarding the capabilities of older people. As I said maybe if you’re retired and/or living and working among people in your cohort it may not be an issue. As for me, it’s brain farts

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dream Girl (Reply #48)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 06:05 PM

49. Yes, I can see how one's environment could be a big deal...

... It doesn't quite work to say "senior moment" to someone who doesn't know what you're talking about.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Reply #49)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 06:09 PM

50. ...Or who holds ageist stereotypes

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dream Girl (Reply #50)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 06:45 PM

52. Right. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dream Girl (Reply #32)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 12:09 PM

57. Hi, again, Dream Girl.

I thought about this interchange a lot. It was very cheering to me to have engaged in a back and forth where we both seemed to have gotten a new blick. I realized that phrases like "senior moment," can be used in hurtful, prejudicial ways, and it looks like you realized that there are benefits to acknowledging the facts of old age, hopefully with humor.

As I was on my walk today I thought of another attribute of "doddering." That is, loss of good balance. I hadn't realized that balance isn't a matter of will, but is a physical thing that happens with amazing coordination of eyes and inner ear and the souls of your feet. I didn't know this until my husband began to have balance problems. There are certainly excercises that work wonders, but not miracles. Anyway, until I understood what was going on I looked at the people around me who "doddered" or used canes or walkers. Sometimes I figured it was arthritis, but other times it sort of slopped over into drunk? over medicated? Now I tell people whenever there's an opportunity about the purely physical aspects of losing a sense of balance as you age.

I've puzzled over how to address the two concerns we have at once. One way, I guess, is to acknowledge the statistical phenomena of aging while fighting prejudice (pre-judging) at every turn. It's never OK to presume that an aged person is afflicted with something to the point of not being able to do a job.

Life is complex.

Anyway, thanks for the helpful interchange.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Reply #57)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 01:12 PM

58. I really appreciate this response. The information you provided on balance is super helpful as I'm

 

having balance problems which I'd attributed to post-chemo neuropathy (breast cancer survivor) and all the meds I now have to take. I'm now wondering if there are other things going on. Again, thank you!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 04:52 PM

38. Oh geez, I hope not because I'm getting really good at it.

I'm getting very good at having them, alot! Wait, what was the subject?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pathwalker (Reply #38)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 05:40 PM

43. :-) Laughter is the best medicine!!! nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pathwalker (Reply #38)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 05:53 PM

47. Ha!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 05:46 PM

44. I'm 65, and I really resent people using phrases like...er...what was the question?

😀

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stopbush (Reply #44)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 05:52 PM

46. :-) nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 07:53 PM

55. I call it a CRS moment

when it happens to me. Which isn't often, of course.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAS14 (Original post)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 08:19 PM

56. I'll be 64 this month

It doesn't bother me. It is what it is.

I just don't remember stuff like I used to, unless it got shoved into my brain years ago. That's why I'm the lead member of a trivia team, but I'll be damned if I can remember the couple who joined us last night.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread