Just so you know, there are folks here promoting a paid Fox News contributor

[jberryhill]

https://www.foxnews.com/person/b/michael-baden

Michael Baden is a Fox News contributor and joined the network in 2003. In this role, Dr. Baden provides FNC with expert analysis of medical, forensic and investigative aspects of unnatural death and injury, including homicide, suicide, accident and mass disasters (multiple shootings, terrorist attacks, hurricanes, fires, airplane crashes etc.).



I mean, okay, I get it. Understandably, there are going to be people who find the old white guy on Fox News who is also paid by Epstein's lawyers to be more "credbile" than a highly qualified scientist hired by the DeBlasio administration to objectively conduct post mortem studies on behalf of the people of New York City.



A native of New York City, Dr. Sampson earned her bachelor’s degree from Princeton University, obtained her Ph.D. in Molecular Biology at Rockefeller University, and received her degree in medicine at Cornell University Medical College, followed by a residency at Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston.

She brings years of experience to her role as Chief Medical Examiner, having served as Acting Chief Medical Examiner, First Deputy Chief Medical Examiner, Senior Medical Examiner, and Cardiovascular Pathology Consultant, among other positions at OCME since 1998.

She serves as President of the Society of Cardiovascular Pathology, the Vice-Chairman of the Residency Review Committee for Pathology of the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education, and is a member of the National Association of Medical Examiners, the United States and Canadian Academy of Pathology, and the American Academy of Forensic Sciences.

Dr. Sampson has published widely on forensic pathology and microbiology, including 29 articles and 4 book chapters, and serves as an Associate Editor of the journal Cardiovascular Pathology. She is the recipient of the Young Investigator Award from the Society of Cardiovascular Pathology and the E.R. Squibb and Sons Senior Thesis Prize for Contribution to Scientific Research. Dr. Sampson is board certified in Anatomic and Clinical Pathology and Forensic Pathology and is participating in Maintenance of Certification.

--------

You want to know why qualified women are ignored? You need look no further than this site.

[USALiberal]

1. Wow, thanks for posting! Nt

[jberryhill]

2. Many DUers find him more credible than Dr. Barbara Sampson

As expected:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212385118

The Pioneering Woman Of Science Whom DUers Are Going To Attack And Smear

What she has to say can't be as accurate as a paid Fox News contributor hired by Epstein's lawyers.

We are so screwed when it comes to the uncritical acceptance of RW propaganda.

[USALiberal]

3. We look silly at times. Nt

[Dennis Donovan]

4. "promoting"? ...or discussing?

[jberryhill]

5. Quite a few posts have been made on DU advancing his "conclusion"

But without identifying him as a paid Fox News operative.

IMHO, that's "promoting".

[Dennis Donovan]

7. I posted the first OP about it:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212637107

It says he's a fox news contributor in my snip. I thought everyone knew he was a Fox contributor by now?

[jberryhill]

9. Ah, missed that one

No, I don't think people who have been "discussing" Baden's stuff were generally aware of that.

Some have a very different view of him:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212642262

Famous pathologist Michael Baden says Epstein body shows signs of homicide

[brush]

29. Guards conveniently on break, surveillance cameras inoperable...

Barr having visited the week before Epstein's body was found?

Come on, you gotta admit something seems fishy. Many of us expressed skepticism about the suicide claim immediately after the death and long before Baden chimed in.

[yardwork]

41. Are our vague suspicions more credible than the medical examiner's conclusion?

[brush]

46. Are we being naive to think that the medical examiner, who is paid...

by the power structure and whose position depends on pleasing said power structure, wouldn't but come up with the conclusion that pleases them?

And recognizing how TPTB operate, the examiner being a woman has nothing to do with it IMO.

[jberryhill]

47. The "power structure" in question being the DeBlasio administration

You do realize this is DEMOCRATIC Underground, yes?

But this guy, paid by Fox News and Epstein's lawyers, and who was a defense witness for OJ and Phil Spector, is the credible one?

Wow.

[brush]

48. You know very well what I mean by the power structure.

Barr visited the jail before the death. He sure wasn't sent there by DeBlasio. Epstein had compromising info on too many powerful men from around the world (trump included) to stay alive once he was in jail and could possibly use that info to try to get out.

That is not a farfetched conclusion at all. People use bargaining chips they possess to save their own skin. It's really quite logical, but you go ahead and stick with suicide.

I'll continue to doubt it.

[jberryhill]

49. Dr. Sampson doesn't work for Barr, the DoJ, or even the federal government

Do I understand you are going with "Dr. Sampson is a coward" then?

[brush]

50. Barr visited the jail before the death as it's DOJ facility that...

is not within the purview of the mayor of NY. I'm surprised you didn't know that.

[jberryhill]

51. So what?

Look at this subthread, you accused Dr. Sampson of being biased on account of working for the "power structure".

Stop with the squid ink and explain what Barr has to do with her position as the CME for NYC?

How did Barr pressure Sampson to fake her results?

You said:

"the medical examiner, who is paid... by the power structure and whose position depends on pleasing said power structure"

She works for the City of New York, not the DoJ. Your babbling about Barr has nothing to do with your smear of Dr. Sampson.

[brush]

52. I'm not taking the bait. People are killed by powerful people...

sometimes when they are considered a threat, take Khashoggi for example. You think trump didn't have anything to do with that?

[jberryhill]

61. Sampson fudged the autopsy "because Khashoggi"?

Okay, that's a new one.

[treestar]

59. But why should the state examiner

Try to please Barr?

[treestar]

54. Some do have

Progressional ethics. That is too Easy a dismissal. And a state medical examiner is not beholden to the feds. You’d have to be really cynical to always assume a government functionary never does their job properly.

[brush]

56. Call me cynical if you like. IMO the death is suspicious.

Guards on break/fell asleep/whatever, surveillance cameras on the blink, Barr visiting the week before.

I'll stick with the death being suspicious.

[treestar]

58. The medical examiner

Would make a scorer finding. So the suspicion, while natural, may still be unfounded. How would a medical examiner get away with it? Others are probably involved. It is not something you can fudge.

[yardwork]

63. I actually know a former state medical examiner.

They tend to be very independent thinkers.

[Act_of_Reparation]

20. Kinda like how intelligent design is just "teaching the controversy"?

[jberryhill]

26. +1

[happybird]

30. Lol!

That’s a good one! Thanks for the giggle (and the thread).

[pintobean]

6. Baden is all about self promotion

He deals in possibilities, not conclusions. He can't be wrong that way, and he can tell his clients what they want to hear.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212640329

[Midnight Writer]

57. Exactly. Baden says "is consistent with", "possibly", "could be". He is a "hired gun" expert.

If he went on TV to say he agrees with the official findings, he would not be on TV, nor would he be a paid Fox consultant.

My question is: Why would Fox promote the possibility that Epstein was murdered, since motive and opportunity lies with the Administration?

[Docreed2003]

8. I wouldn't trust that dude to do an autopsy on a piece of excrement

[MineralMan]

10. At this point, it doesn't really matter.

There is an official cause of death, and that is what will likely stick, regardless of what someone who never examined the body says. In any case, it will not change anything, either way.

[jberryhill]

15. I think it matters when Trump TV is promoted on DU

[MineralMan]

55. No. It doesn't matter at all.

Epstein is dead. The official ruling is that it was suicide. There will be no redo of that. Whoever is pushing a different viewpoint never even saw the body. It's all guesswork mixed with conspiracy theories.

Epstein is dead. It was ruled a suicide. That's the end of it, except in the minds of people who know absolutely nothing about any of it, and who never saw the man's body nor examined it.

Foolishness.

[treestar]

53. Yes it is just fodder for

Conspiracy theorists.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

11. And here's some more info on Baden, the celebrity pathologist

who, back in the late '70s, got fired from his job as chief medical examiner after only a year because he made so many mistakes. Then he got fired again from another ME job and went into private practice as a pathologist and discovered that going on TV and opining on famous people's causes of death was a pretty good gig.

Michael Baden has spent decades as the go-to freelance medical examiner on the media and lecture circuit. He testified at the trials of O.J. Simpson and Phil Spector (who had hired Baden’s second wife, Linda Kenney Baden, as his defense attorney). He has conducted private autopsies in the deaths of Michael Brown, Aaron Hernandez, Shannan Gilbert, and John Belushi. He’s been so frequent a guest on Fox News shows — including Fox and Friends, where he gave his Epstein opinion — that he was identified as “Death Correspondent” on the long-running late-night show RedEye.

Hold Dr. Baden’s credentials up to the light, though, and a more checkered history emerges from his demi-celebrity status. I first sensed the disconnect between Baden’s fame (which he loved to discuss) and his accomplishments (which paled in comparison to his fame-chasing) when he gave a guest lecture at John Jay College’s forensic-science program while I was in graduate school there in the early 2000s. Self-aggrandizement, however irritating, is not necessarily an indication of professional unreliability. The circumstances of his dismissal as chief medical examiner for the New York City office in 1979, and again from running the Suffolk County office in 1982, are bigger — and more worrying — red flags.

****

Despite those inauspicious endings to his jobs in New York City and Suffolk County, Baden soon created enough work for himself to put his failures to the deep freeze. The success of his private forensic-pathology practice, the publication of his book Unnatural Death, and his hosting of HBO’s Autopsy vaulted him further up the expertise and punditry ladders. Repeated television appearances allowed Baden to center his opinions over the people whose autopsies he presided over as primary or secondary pathologist. It was surely sweet turnabout, too, when the man who replaced him at the OCME, Elliot Gross, ended up in even worse trouble than he had.

Baden’s onetime lawyer (and future best-selling crime novelist), Robert Tanenbaum, argued in 1979 that “he is too independent — that’s the only slam on the guy. He cannot be leaned on and he has tremendous integrity. And so in the mentality of the New York Establishment, he can’t be trusted.” In the real world, though, trust, however, is born from accomplishments more than from accolades. A thorny, high-stakes case like the death of Jeffrey Epstein demands unimpeachable integrity on the part of forensic-science professionals, rather than the entrails of long-ago fame. Which is why Michael Baden’s opinion on the matter is unreliable at best and dangerous at worst — a second opinion in dire need of a third one.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/10/why-to-be-skeptical-of-michael-baden-on-epsteins-death.html

Being a regular on Fox should have been the first clue that he's not exactly Quincy, M.E. (remember that one?), but I agree that the opinion of the actual, highly-credentialed Dr. Sampson (who hasn't been fired twice from M.E. jobs and doesn't go on TV to opine about dead celebrities) should carry a whole lot more weight than that of a guy who's basically Rudy Giuliani playing Quincy..

[jberryhill]

12. Sad

[Me.]

13. The Thing Is

I thought the Epstein death was too convenient and hinky and didn't need anyone else to say so.

[jberryhill]

14. So why is Trump TV promoting the notion he was murdered?

[Archae]

16. Distraction.

Simple. They promote this distraction, which they'll claim is "tied to Hillary Clinton," like they promoted the hell out of the conspiracy theory that Seth Rich was murdered by Hillary.

This way the Faux "news" base will concentrate on this bullshit, and ignore the actual crimes of their boy, Trump.

[Me.]

17. Who Knows

Who knows why they do anything

[jberryhill]

18. Who knows why Trump TV does anything?

Oh, I think their motivation and reasons for doing things are pretty transparent.

Perhaps some day, folks will realize that Fox News is not an objective source of information.

[Me.]

19. Of Course People Know

and just because I think there's more to his death than has been told doesn't make me or anyone else who has suspicions about the death a fan of Faux.

[hlthe2b]

21. Exactly. This isn't the first conflation on this issue from the OP. Discussing the death of Epstein

is hardly PROMOTING Baden. There are very real questions behind his death--whether you accept suicide as the cause or not.

[jberryhill]

25. Hardly promoting Baden?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212642262

Not promoting Baden, the "famous pathologist" with no mention of his past record of firings, paid testimony, and shilling for Fox?

[hlthe2b]

27. No she was not promoting Baden.

[lunatica]

37. Some people get even when they get slapped down

Consider it a victory. No one who matters or knows will be convinced by such a a Trumpian like need to get even.

[spanone]

39. The New York Times also posted an article on this story and I posted it. News is news.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/31/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-autopsy-homicide.html?searchResultPosition=2

[jberryhill]

44. A couple of paragraphs in the regional section

Which point out that it was merely stuff being said on Fox & Friends by a contributor, and that Sampson replied to it.

What is the "news" here, exactly? That a Fox contributor is pushing a narrative he's been paid to push?

Obviously, the NYT didn't think it was national news.

[USALiberal]

23. Great logic! Nt

[Me.]

34. Seriously

if you wanted to discredit an opponent would the mess that is the Ukraine scandal be your choice of best way to do it? And would you listen to Manafort when you had personal knowledge of how bent he was, not to mention headed for/in prison?

[NoMoreRepugs]

22. Knowing the FACTS makes all the difference in the world.

Appreciate the outline of the 2 parties involved. Dr Sampson wins by knockout in the first 11 seconds of Round 1.

[Mr.Bill]

28. Along with this website, I also view several conservative websites.

Both sides of the political spectrum are speculating that Epstein's death was not a suicide. The only difference is who they say is responsible. Epstein came in contact with so many powerful people it's easy to imagine motive for many people to have him killed, considering the activities he was up to.

[Prosper]

31. Super Rich Powerful People don't have to ask for anything.

People in their employ and people that can benefit from the super rich will do things simply on the chance that the Super Rich might look their way. Do things on the chance their name might come up in conversation.

To drive that message home consider the importance of a good school. It is not curriculum or instructors or textbooks. It is NETWORKING. In all cases networking is responsible for that extra bit that rockets careers skyward. NETWORKING

[yardwork]

42. A highly qualified medical examiner actually examined his body.

Is her conclusion less credible than vague feelings and speculation by people who never saw the body?

[Mr.Bill]

43. Of course not.

I just said there are people on both sides of politics that think he was murdered, and they have different ideas about who did it, to support their different political agendas.

[Collimator]

32. My money is on the Queen of England.

Not that I think you did it herself, of course. She rang up James Bond and . . . Wait, he's not real?! But I saw them together on television! Are you saying that everything that I see on television isn't real even when there is an actual person with formal credentials involved?

[Perseus]

33. Sorry, I am confused. What did she do? Did she come out with a conclusion on Epstein's death?

I see her credentials, but somewhere I am failing to see why she was brought up. Please explain. This is a sincere confusion on my part, I really don't understand what her role in all this is.

[jberryhill]

35. "I really don't understand what her role in all this is"

That's how effective the RW propaganda noise machine is at drowning out the facts.

She is the Chief Medical Examiner of the city and county of New York. She was the person responsible for conducting the Epstein autopsy and determining the manner of his death.

It is her conclusions, based on her expertise and qualifications which, unlike Baden's, do not include being fired from the job, which are being attacked by Trump TV and its promoters.

https://nypost.com/2019/10/30/top-medical-examiner-defends-epstein-suicide-ruling/

The city chief medical examiner on Wednesday stood by her office’s determination that Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide — following claims from a longtime forensic pathologist that the convicted pedophile’s death looked more like a homicide.

“Our investigation concluded that the cause of Mr. Epstein’s death was hanging and the manner of death was suicide,” Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Barbara Sampson said in a statement. “We stand by the determination.”

[Perseus]

38. Thank you very much for clarifying it

Although I am not sure how it benefits trump and his minions to make it look like homicide, trump and his minions are the first to be suspects of foul play, Epstein had a lot of garbage on them, and I am still wondering if all those tapes that Epstein was supposed to have are being studied, or have these been lost? I have not heard anything about those tapes.

I for one have been doubtful about Epstein committing suicide, so I guess when the Faux News forensic expert comes out claiming homicide there is a tendency to believe him, plus what I wrote in my previous paragraph.

[Chalco]

40. I agree. nt

[treestar]

62. Bill Clinton was seen

With Epstein too. Obviously Hillary did it/sarcasm.

[deurbano]

36. To me, the suspicious part is that he was given the opportunity to commit suicide.

I certainly value Dr. Sampson's conclusions about the actual cause of death much more highly than those of a celebrity ambulance chaser.

[crickets]

64. +1

[Initech]

45. Anything Fox News related is automatically suspect as far as I'm concerned.

[SidDithers]

60. DU Rec...

Sid