General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhen Trump is gone, the dust has begun to settle and repairs to our system are
underway, perhaps some thought should be given to the re-fashioning of the entire impeachment process to make it more "workable" in a world in which effects follow causes in minutes, not months.
Congress needs the ability to enforce its subpoenas and punish those who defy them. Some form of special court or tribunal with the ability to respond to these challenges within days, not months, seems necessary. FISA courts were created to answer a specific need not contemplated by the founders. Dealing with a POTUS determined to obstruct Congress' legitimate oversight of his or her criminal actions seems to fit into that same category.
BSdetect
(8,998 posts)elected as a Dem
Cyrano
(15,035 posts)The orange creature is only half the problem. The other half is a totally corrupt Republican Party. Until they're gone, no new laws will fix anything.
True Blue American
(17,984 posts)It is not just one person, the whole party has become corrupted to the bone!
KentuckyWoman
(6,679 posts)It is affecting local libraries, schools etc. The pain where the rubber meets the road is real.
True Blue American
(17,984 posts)Look in Ky. Today?
Rand Paul hated Trump, now backs him. You think that neighbor knew more than we do?
KentuckyWoman
(6,679 posts)There is A LOT of bad feeling toward the Republicans in general, more than I've seen in a long time. There's hope. Not a lot, but some.
Atticus
(15,124 posts)some options developed and discussed. I read your response as "Nothing we can do" until the GOP is "gone".
Am I misreading your post?
Cyrano
(15,035 posts)Atticus
(15,124 posts)Republicans weren't always a crazed wingnut party. Somehow, they must cleanse themselves of insane people. Fox "news," hate radio, and hate online sites will make that difficult. Yet, it must happen if democracy is to survive.
I don't know if any of us will see a sane opposition party in our lifetimes. Yet, an opposition party is a necessity.
Atticus
(15,124 posts)are some things we could do during our lifetimes that might make things better even if we don't solve 100% of the problem.
Thanks for your thoughts.
NJCher
(35,658 posts)I think Trump pushed the envelope and he exacerbated them beyond what one could ever think possible.
It doesn't look like it now, but I think a person like Romney could take over and at least give them the mask of respectability. If Romney were to be successful, he might engender a more moderate type of republican. The wack jobs would feel pressured to fall into line and over time they could be primaried out.
I do not at all like the idea that we need to get rid of republicans first. We need an organizational structure that prioritizes what we want done (or should I say undone) first. Then we need to push for it. We can't afford to wait on many of these issues.
olegramps
(8,200 posts)Mike 03
(16,616 posts)But it has to be a priority. There's so much damage everywhere you look. Yes, the impeachment process needs to be recalibrated and more generally there must be safeguards against widespread obstruction of the legislative branch by the executive branch. We need to bring the best and brightest legal minds into the next administration to try to figure this out.
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)with the leadership not either being prepared or not feeling its important enough. Besides, the House has lots of power in and of itself.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Never in a zillion years did I expect that there wouldn't have been articles drafted and ready to just append Mueller findings. Nor that we wouldn't have had a media game plan for exactly what to say then. A unified and unequivocal declaration that the crimes cited there in we're impeachable offenses. Because we had neither, his findings we're neutered and people thought - well, the nonpartisan guy spent two years looking for stuff - guess there was nothing there.
Then, Lewandowski hides behind some makeshift privilege, and gets away with it. It was a test!
It's like if you take so long making the perfect birthday cake but you don't take it out of the oven until the day after the birthday, what good is it.
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)but I still think, they need to take the gloves off NOW
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Take the stern tweets to the next level. The only one who gets all his tweets read is the monster in the room.
KPN
(15,642 posts)accountable. The treasonous bastards with prosecution for their crimes against our country, and just penalties. And the leaders with continued activism. We cannot let this get swept aside by looking forward, focusing on the future. Our response as a nation to the 2007-2009 crash is partly responsible for us being where we are now.
KentuckyWoman
(6,679 posts)The forces that got this farce in office aren't going anywhere. They'll just pick a new horse.. and you can bet THIS is not bottom.
Farmer-Rick
(10,159 posts)Take away their power in our decayed democracy by taking away their money. If we allow capitalism to continue in it's corrupt ways it will kill us all.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Farmer-Rick
(10,159 posts)CousinIT
(9,240 posts)POTUS candidates MUST release publicly at least 5 years of tax returns to get on the ballot in any state
POTUS candidates MUST undergo a complete psychiatric examination once they become a candidate and if there are any diagnosis of pathological mental illness (malignant narcissism, sociopathy), they must end their bid.
(pathological = untreatable, malfunction of parts of the human brain that drugs or therapy can not change or treat)
POTUS CAN be indicted while in office
Ignoring subpoenas to appear before them must have ACTUAL, IMMEDIATE CONSEQUENCES (could be fines, jail, denial of funds or salaries)
Impeachment process should be re-designed to be more efficient in the case of a dangerous POTUS - with a concentration on retaining the republic and gov't institutions.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Maybe overlap the terms for Attorney General?
And strict term limits for SCROTUS.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)True Blue American
(17,984 posts)Cary
(11,746 posts)They are authoritarians.
Farmer-Rick
(10,159 posts)With our gerrymandered districts, voter supression, rigged and faulty voting machines, unsecured election data, rampent propaganda, elimination of real exit polling, easy access by foreign hackers and adjusted red shift polls, it's bound to be a whole lot less.
Cary
(11,746 posts)I am sure there are other qualified researchers who disagree but she puts it at 30%.
KPN
(15,642 posts)upside, we far outnumber them. But we lack their focus and drive so well have to be deliberate, persistent and vigilant.
Cary
(11,746 posts)We outnumber them but we tend to not vote. They tend to vote.
gordianot
(15,237 posts)The decline has been steady the next one is hard to imagine.
kentuck
(111,079 posts)But the DOJ seems to be in the pocket of the Executive?
Perseus
(4,341 posts)has too much power, that the founders wrote the rules assuming we would never have a leech occupy the sit of the presidency. The fact that he can go around the rules and assign "acting" positions to curtail the confirmation process poses real problems.
The lack of checks and balances on a daily basis presents more problems, and many of it should have been learned during the Nixon impeachment process, but then again, regardless of what Nixon did, at the end we do have to accept that he loved his country more than himself, which is not the case with the leech we have in the White House.
The fact that he has been able to appoint his children into advisory positions and circumvent the process to provide them with security clearances needs to be fixed. trump has shown us that the presidency can be easily abused and that very few recourse is available to the Congress besides impeachment.
You are correct, if a subpoena is not answered then the full weight of the law must fall on the criminal, and the White House, the president should not have a say on whether a person answers, or not, to a subpoena. A subpoena must be answered, it must be treated with the reverence that it deserves, and if not punishment must follow.
I could go on...the point is that this should be a waking moment for the country, the president must be reigned in, and I don't mean the leech, the leech must be impeached and taken out, I mean the position of the presidency. It must be disallowed for a president to conduct private conversations with a foreign leader and not provide transcripts of it, to not have people in the room witnessing the conversation. trump discussing matters of the country with Putin in close doors and destroying the transcripts is a crime and misdemeanor, it should not be allowed. How many secrets did he tell Putin? It is treason, nothing else.
Atticus
(15,124 posts)I wonder if there could be a requirement that "acting" cabinet members, etc, be limited to 60 days duration and, if the POTUS fails to get a replacement named and approved within, say, 120 days, Congress can fill the position. I understand this amounts to the legislative branch exercising executive branch functions, but is there no amount of transparent skulduggery by which a POTUS may forfeit his or her right to choose these vital officers?
I don't pretend to have all the answers---or any of them. We need some high-level brainstorming and an openness go new ideas.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,106 posts)kentuck
(111,079 posts)Justice is part of the Executive Branch. But, when the AG gets too close to the President, it creates a lot of problems.
They should pass some legislation to prevent it from happening again. There should be a review board or something?
unblock
(52,199 posts)well, it is true that one of the lessons from nixon is that having an independent counsel statute would be a good idea, but republicans abused that power and then helped make it go away, clearing the way for donnie to kill an investigation into himself.
however, i think our real problem today comes from the combination of potus and a senate majority working in concert.
nixon won re-election in a massive landslide. he won 49 states. had the senate told him, don't worry, we won't remove you no matter what, he could have gotten away with murder. instead, he was forced to resign.
donnie is pushing the envelope and breaking norms and laws all over the place partially because he has a fair degree of confidence that he won't actually be removed for it.
the founders knew there would be corrupt individuals and tyrants. they expressly put in countermeasures, such as each house being able to kick out members, and of course, impeachment. what they didn't contemplate was a senate majority supporting a blatant tyrant. at least, they didn't provide a remedy for that.
olegramps
(8,200 posts)At the present they are so assured in their constituency that they can openly flout the law without repercussions. They are at the present time, successfully saying we dare you to attempt to uphold the very laws that we have sworn to protect and defend.
It is Orwellian in that the truths are lies and the lies are truth. They have become so brazen as to state that Trump's attempt to compel the Ukrainian to manufacture lies to aid his candidacy with the threat of withholding monies approved by congress for protection against the illegal invasion of their nation is not unlawful.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,106 posts)will start impeachment hearings the day after he or she is sworn into office. That's just the way they roll.
Mike Nelson
(9,953 posts)... they need to act like the reverse of Mitch McTrump... only more so... being "fair" to Republicans is no longer acceptable. Change rules, seize power for the people... no more denying rights. Move to reverse Crooked Donald's decisions, even the Supreme Court picks... explore every possible way...
Cerridwen
(13,257 posts)The "left" were happy to help attack them then and since.
It will be the same for the next generations.
Reminder that the rumor was the repubs had a template for Clinton's impeachment before he was sworn in. They parsed every word he or Hillary said and twisted and lied about each one.
If you get a chance, go read ginrich's ethics violation paperwork. It gives an outline of how the repubs planned to use language, character assassination, rumor, innuendo, and small-time public offices to create a militarized, "christian" theocracy.
Go read through kos, du, and other left-ish websites. You'll see a lot of the same arguments from years ago.
This is just the next chapter.
edit:typo
NoMoreRepugs
(9,413 posts)Rethuglicans are instigating it against a Democratic President for no real reason.
Johonny
(20,835 posts)True Blue American
(17,984 posts)Citizens United destroyed our Political system.