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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAbout that Mormon family killed in Mexico. I knew my gut was right
Last edited Wed Nov 6, 2019, 10:41 PM - Edit history (1)
EDIT: this is in NO way an attempt to excuse their heinous murder. Rather, an explanation of why they were in that area
Mexican slaughter victims were from NXIVM recruiting ground
https://m.chron.com/news/article/Victims-of-Mexican-slaughter-were-from-NXIVM-14814764.php
The Mormon communitys ties to the disgraced NXIVM leader's cult-like organization were revealed in May during the testimony of NXIVM defector Mark Vicente, a filmmaker based in Los Angeles who once lived in Knox Woods, the same Halfmoon townhouse complex as Raniere.
The nine women and children killed -- including eight-month-old twins -- were traveling in a mountainous area where the notorious Sinaloa drug cartel has been waging a turf war. The victims were related to the extended LeBaron family community in the state of Chihuahua.
...
Raniere secretly operated a"master/slave" group known as DOS or Dominus Obsequious Sororium," which translates from Latin as "Lord/Master of the Obedient Female Companions." Under the orders of Raniere, the "Grand Master," women in DOS were starved on 500-calorie-a-day diets and forced to provide "collateral" in the form of sexually explicit photos or false information about themselves and their family to ensure their loyalty. They also were required to have Raniere's initials branded onto their pelvic areas by a person using a cauterizing pen.
MUCH more at the link!
NRaleighLiberal
(59,940 posts)Beakybird
(3,329 posts)madaboutharry
(40,152 posts)That was disturbing to hear. These women and children were victims of a cult.
maxsolomon
(32,992 posts)Quite a long time ago.
Baitball Blogger
(46,576 posts)They were ambushed and slaughtered. If they were potential sex slaves, wouldn't the better idea have been to kidnap them?
Roland99
(53,342 posts)Someone seeking revenge?
bluedigger
(17,077 posts)Blaming it on drug traffickers is very convenient for Mexican authorities.
marked50
(1,350 posts)GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Reading it causally makes it look like an excuse for the sad killing of these folks.
I do not think that is your intent, so I suggest an edit to make that clear.
But I do get your point...these people are members of a crazy religious cult. And that can breed resentment in people especially when kids are involved. But it is no excuse to kill women and children. Or men for that matter.
But we still do not know if that played into the killing at all.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)Nobody deserved to die the way they all did. What is your point?
Roland99
(53,342 posts)Sorry for calling out these vermin
Texasgal
(17,029 posts)who had no choice somehow deserved this?
I'm not accusing you of such, but I am asking you to clarify.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)Dear gawd
Texasgal
(17,029 posts)to be ridiculous and rude.
No one deserves to die like this. Period.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)Sex trafficking kids?
Keep defending them if you want but I prefer calling out criminals whenever possible
Response to Roland99 (Reply #19)
Texasgal This message was self-deleted by its author.
Texasgal
(17,029 posts)sex trafficking of children.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)If you want to get misty because some imperialist goons got smoked on their way back from the slave market, that's your business. But you've got no ground wagging your finger at me.
malaise
(267,823 posts)Dorian Gray
(13,469 posts)however, there were 9 people who died in this attack. Any women and children, if involved with NXIUM, were victims of the cult.
If the murders were related to revenge, then these people were double victimized by NXIUM.
It's awful. Nobody deserves to die. And the people who created NXIUM have rightfully been tried.
AkFemDem
(1,798 posts)They were all quite white... to your second point, everyone killed was a woman or a child. IF your link is to be believed then that means the women were victims, and obviously the children were innocents.
If cartel members had shot up a car load of MEN who run this faction- 🤷🏻♀️ Maybe your comment would be appropriate. But they didnt, so its not. Its just cold and callous.
sop
(9,946 posts)Listening to Trump one might believe the victims were members of the typical all-American white family from suburbia, innocently visiting just across the border, murdered by a pack of vicious brown-skinned animals. You know, just like the sort of bloodthirsty Mexican immigrants daily invading our sacred homeland, coming soon to a neighborhood just like yours, unless we can build The Wall.
Unfortunately, Trump can't play up the "devout christians murdered by violent Godless foreign scum" angle. These folks were reportedly part of a polygamous Mormon fringe cult, living deep inside Mexico, engaged in who knows what. And they weren't randomly caught up in the crossfire of some Mexican drug cartel shootout, apparently they were targeted as payback for something their group did.
Of course, none of this is meant to justify their deaths, or lessen the tragedy of children being slaughtered. It's just that Trump and his band of racist haters will predictably exploit this incident to stoke even more fear and hatred.
Kittycow
(2,396 posts)The only motive I can come up with if I try really hard (since it's a senseless massacre) is it's a warning for the cult to get out?
It seems if they had to kill somebody so bad, why didn't they kill the leaders of the schools that were taking in the local girls? Maybe a leader was in the group?
Or maybe they just felt like killing a bunch of people that day. With their depravity, it wouldn't surprise me.
PufPuf23
(8,688 posts)This Mormon break away group has a violent and dicey history. Mitt Romney's grandfather and great grandfather were part of this group and Mitt's father was born in Mexico as part of this group.
Massacre of U.S. citizens puts spotlight on Mormon community with deep roots in Mexico
The roadside killings of nine U.S. citizens in northern Mexico has brought renewed attention to the scattered communities of Mormons who settled in the country more than a century ago to escape persecution. The three women and 14 children whom assailants ambushed Monday as they drove toward Arizona from the town of Bavispe in Sonora state included descendants of a fundamentalist Mormon community that has lived in the country for decades.
Early Wednesday, criminal investigators in northern Mexico said a suspect had been arrested and was under investigation for possible connections with the deaths. A Mexican official had earlier said the killers might have mistaken the family for members of a rival drug cartel. Some of the victims shared the last name LeBaron. They were related to a prominent fundamentalist Mormon family by the same name, said Daniel LeBaron, a cousin of one of the victims, Rhonita Maria Miller. Daniel LeBaron lives in Colonia LeBaron in Chihuahua state, a community established by fundamentalist Mormons in 1944 that has close ties to the LeBarons of Bavispe.
The LeBarons are among a handful of major groups of fundamentalists, said Patrick Mason, a historian of Mormonism at Utah State University. But, he added: The LeBaron name in recent decades has been most often linked to violence. Unfortunately, this incident only adds to that association.
The family is perhaps best known for a series of killings perpetrated in the 1970s and 1980s, in both Mexico and the United States, by Ervil LeBaron once called the Mormon Manson and a group of his followers.
Lots more at: https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-11-06/mormons-mexico-lebaron-fundamentalist-history
In 1993, a federal jury in Texas convicted three members of an offshoot of the community of LeBarons in the deaths of three former members and an 8-year-old child. One expert estimated that members of the group had killed as many as 30 people over the years.
Cha
(295,915 posts)Response to dalton99a (Reply #18)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
Cha
(295,915 posts)for their religion.. not killing people?
superpatriotman
(6,232 posts)I am leaning toward a failed escape from a cult
GopherGal
(1,999 posts)...if they've expanded upon the official story since then.
The original details of the story are just enough to show there's huge gaps in the story, especially given the nature of the event (13 women and children dual citizens kinda near the border) lending itself so easily to politicization.
The need for safety is so severe that they're traveling by daylight in a caravan of SUVs, but not so severe that any adult men are included in the traveling party of 3 women and ~10 children.
And 3 SUVs full of "mistaken identity" is a bit much. Add the info painting some of the LaBarons as activists against the cartels, which furthers their role as sympathetic victims but calls into doubt the "mistaken identity" aspect.
LeftInTX
(24,554 posts)It was mistaken ID and he was let go
Squinch
(50,774 posts)The LeBarons in the past have been an astonishingly violent fundamentalist sect, and there are many instances of them murdering each other because of power struggles within the cult.
The right wing press jumped on this as a story of innocent Americans being slaughtered by lawless Mexicans and we need the wall and bla bla bla. The main stream media picked up that same story like lemmings.
There are other likely possibilities of what happened to those poor women and children.
And before anyone responds with, "they didn't deserve to die that way," OF COURSE they didn't. This is not saying they did. It is only to say there is a lot more here than is being reported.
Response to superpatriotman (Reply #15)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Amy MacPherson
@MsAmyMacPherson
· Oct 31, 2019
Replying to @MsAmyMacPherson
16/28 #CDNpoli #CDNmedia #Elxn43 #ForeignInterference
NXIVM existed primarily as a kompromat organization to keep politicians in the US, Canada & Mexico in line. I contend that Frank Parlato blew the whistle about the sex cult part of this group, only as a means of distraction
Amy MacPherson
@MsAmyMacPherson
17/28 #CDNpoli #CDNmedia #Elxn43 #ForeignInterference
Frank is the best friend of Roger Stone, who you all know as an operative in the Trump-Russia probe
Frank's also been indicted by a grand jury on 19 charges that involve money laundering, as a reason to misrepresent NXIVM
Duppers
(28,094 posts)This has my brain spinning in many directions.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)And that Amy MacPherson has some protection
Response to Roland99 (Reply #20)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
underpants
(182,279 posts)The back stories on things ranging from Susan Smith to Stella Liebeck (coffee lady) to Mary Kay Letourneau just amaze me. I think I learned or was directed towards finding out all about those from DU.
Bookmarking. My first thought was - what the hell are they doing there? And now I have a hint of a clue.
Thanks Roland.
samnsara
(17,570 posts)...those poor kids. But at least the one that saved his brothers and sisters had enough proper socialization to know what to do in an emergency. At least that!
FM123
(10,050 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)I just got back from my morning walk with the beasties and saw this.
Yikes! How could people involve children in such a sordid mess?
I still dont understand the slaughter. Why?
Roland99
(53,342 posts)I still feel the killings were mistaken identity.
The other tale is why they were there in the first place. We appear to know now
cwydro
(51,308 posts)And comprehension.
Raftergirl
(1,276 posts)in my local paper (Albany Times Union.) The Albany area is where NXIVM was headquartered. The Times Union has been reporting on them for years - way before it became a national story.
There were underage girls from Mexico sent to Clifton Park by their parents. It came up in Ranieres trial.
Raniere was in Mexico when he was arrested.
obamanut2012
(25,911 posts)It wouldn't be anymore insane.
SweetieD
(1,660 posts)Involved in the drug trade. This type of killing is not unusual in that area.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Sickening.