Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

kentuck

(111,078 posts)
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:04 PM Nov 2019

Ukraine, in context

This scandalous and treasonous story coming out of Ukraine did not happen in a vacuum.

If it had not been for the many questions about Russia after the 2016 elections, Ukraine may not have seemed so important?

All the Intelligence agencies were saying that Russia interfered in our elections, systematically. Donald Trump was calling it a "hoax" and a "witch hunt".

The Justice Dept appointed a Special Counsel to investigate. The Mueller Report showed us a lot. There was a network of criminals within an international network.

Whether or not Mr Mueller was requested to end the investigation prematurely, we do not know? However, the very next day, after Mueller had given his closing comments, Mr Trump was on the phone with the new president of Ukraine, wanting to make a deal. If he went along, he could get a visit at the White House and the money released that Ukraine needed for its national defense. He let him know that he needed a favor.

So, the seeds of doubt had already been planted with the Russia investigation. When it become known that Mr Trump wanted the new president of Ukraine to "investigate" Joe Biden and his son, for political advantage in the next election, the people of this country were on guard not to let any foreigners interfere in our 2020 election.

Trump, Rudy, Lev, and Igor, and others, have assisted with a corrupt and criminal act. That is why the House is impeaching Donald J. Trump.

2 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Ukraine, in context (Original Post) kentuck Nov 2019 OP
There is a much more important context to US/Ukraine relations that every Ukrainian knows grantcart Nov 2019 #1
Yep! kentuck Nov 2019 #2

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
1. There is a much more important context to US/Ukraine relations that every Ukrainian knows
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:19 PM
Nov 2019

At the dissolution of the soviet Union Ukraine retained a massive nuclear strike force

130 ICBMs with 6 warheads
46 ICBMs with 10 each
and 33 heavy bombers

for a total of about 1700 nuclear bombs.

Starting in 1991 the US (on a clear bipartisan basis) negotiated with Ukraine to destroy all of their nuclear warheads.

Historically this is the largest unilateral denuclearization program carried out by any country. Of course Russia would not invade a country with such a large nuclear arsenal.

In exchange for this brave and noble action the US promised that we would always stand by Ukraine.

This had deep bipartisan and unanimous support in Congress.

Trump's betrayal will endanger the world for decades. The next time we want a country to get rid of their nukes, or chemical weapons or do something that weakens them but improves world peace we will make a solemn promise to help them in the long term.

Our future Presidents will not be believed at this crucial moment. It will take decades to rebuild our credibility.

Similarly with Iranian accords. Trump didn't "pull out" of the accords as is so euphemistically said, he broke the treaty. Without any evidence of an Iranian violation (which there is none) the US clearly violated the treaty.

The next time a future President negotiates a treaty in our interests the opposing country will simply say "but this treaty is only good until the next US election, the next Trump will break his word."

For 50 years the US has kept its word even when it was wrong. In the Iraqi war we hosted open auctions for drilling contracts for the oil. No US company won any of the contracts. We kept our word.

This loss of credibility will mean that in the future we won't be able to negotiate an end to a terrible situation and have to land troops to do so.

That is the real harm. Those that say "no harm no foul" have no understanding of history, diplomacy or how the community of nations works.

It is a great loss and will take decades to recover.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Ukraine, in context