NEW-- Update on the update on the notion that Trump had to go to hospital for cardiac emergency

[Grasswire2]

Last edited Mon Nov 18, 2019, 06:31 PM - Edit history (1)

[[NEW: MSNBC guest, Republican insider, says she was told by some in WH that Trump was simply STIR CRAZY Sunday because it was too cold to golf, and went for a field trip to Walter Reed.]]




1. The WH has a level one trauma hospital within.

2. The FIRST test administered for heart damage is the Troponin I blood draw. The test takes ten minutes to run, and can be done on a hand-held i-STAT device at the POC. (Point of Contact). This is the gold standard for determining whether the patient is experiencing an MI.

3. If the result shows 0.04 or less, no further blood test is required to determine cardiac emergency because there is no damage. If it shows more than 0.04, three more blood draws are indicated, consecutively, to determine damage if any. That would take several hours.

Too, an ECG will be determinative and show changes that would indicate trouble. That would be done within moments of an event. The WH has capability of transmitting any data to Walter Reed specialists in real time.

Today the president was at the White House and participated in a scheduled briefing that was held in the residence.

And so we are left with mystery and lies.

But we can be sure that he had no heart damage.

The hand-held device: [link:https://www.woodleyequipment.com/product/76/i-STAT-Portable-Clinical-Analyser|


The Troponin test as administered by hand-held device: ]https://www.childrensmn.org/references/lab/chemistry/troponin-i-(point-of-care).pdf

[dawg day]

1. I think it was neurological/psychological--

A mini-stroke, maybe, or a meltdown or seizure.... something requiring an MRI. I remember last year there was a picture of him with a bruise on the back of the hand, which was exactly like the one I get from the intravenous needle used with an MRI.

[Grasswire2]

4. a bruise from a needle can mean anything, not necessarily an MRI.

A simple poke to take a little sample from a vein can make a bruise. We can't assume he had an MRI.

[mopinko]

12. most mri's dont require a contrast.

had several, never one w an iv.

[Grasswire2]

31. actually, you are right!

Never had an IV with an MRI.

[samir.g]

2. he has no heart

[StarryNite]

27. Exactly!

No way to have heart damage when he doesn't have a heart!

[magicarpet]

50. Like a red brick,...

Granite cobble stone,
Or cement cinder block,

But certainly no heart.

[alittlelark]

3. Panic Attack - well deserved.

[Moostache]

6. My thoughts exactly!

I hope he has more on an increasing basis and ends up resigning this month....

[albacore]

11. But then all the investigations will end. I want investigations until he dies. nt

[tblue37]

36. New York and other states still have ongoing investigations. nt

[albacore]

46. But will NY or any other entities keep on with the prosecutions of a person already out of office?

I can just hear it now...
"Everything from this point is moot."
"He's already been punished."
"Beating a dead horse."
"Politically motivated."

I can live with ALL of those things being true, and still prosecuting the whole family, but the Repub spin machine is going to be up to full speed if that asshole leaves office...removed OR resigns.

[tblue37]

49. That isn't how prosecutors generally operate. They are not investigating him for state-level

crimes. His leaving office shouldn't affect that, except in the sense that he'd have less power to obstruct the investigations.

[albacore]

55. But there's lots of money and power involved, too...

But I'm hopeful that NY's hatred of trump - and the number and severity of the crimes - will overcome any political suck trump may have.
But I can find no record of a former President being prosecuted after leaving office.

[Jewls2]

15. If the WH can figure an heart attack, it can figure a panic attack.

[napi21]

20. DT wouldn't let the WH say panic attack because DT would think that would show weakness.

Of course this is MY speculation but he's always worried about public perception.

[mahina]

22. My read exactly.

[alittlelark]

25. The two look almost identical initially.

[smirkymonkey]

5. I mentioned in an earlier post that I thought he could be taken care of in the WH

medical center if it was a MI scare. So what is it that they can do at Walter Reed that they CAN'T do at the White House medical center? Anybody know?

[Grasswire2]

7. make it look scary!

Seriously, the fact that he is back at "work" today indicates that the trip to WR was likely not medically necessary, given the level of care available at WH.

[womanofthehills]

40. So we really know he is back at work?

All they do is lie.

[shanti]

56. Exactly

Nobody has said they've actually seen him. He supposedly sent an email to one of the Dem governor winners, congratulating him. That to me is suspicious. Like a staffer wrote it. He NEVER says a positive thing about Dems.

[OliverQ]

29. The White House has a standard X-ray machine, but I don't

believe they have a CT or MRI.

[octoberlib]

44. Dick Cheney's ex-doctor said on CNN if Trump needed things like CT scans or a stress test ,

he'd go to Walter Reed but those are planned weeks , if not, months in advance due to security. They bring the bomb sniffing dogs through before the President enters and everything. He was highly skeptical about it being nothing but a partial physical(which is done at the WH).

[elleng]

8. We can be sure of nothing.

Tired of all the speculation.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

14. Exactly! For all we know he is hospitalized or confined to bed. He lies & so do people around him.

"A "pool photographer" saw him leave the hospital" - who was that?

"Today the president was at the White House and participated in a scheduled briefing that was held in the residence" - anyone see him?

All I know that Dr. Ronny's report that Trump is in "excellent" health, is 6'3", and weighs 239 lbs (one pound less than obese) is total crap.

The truth is that trump and his minions are all about lies and misinformation.

[Jewls2]

16. True that. With all the lies, how do we know he met with anyone.

[DFW]

9. If you tend toward the REALLY cynical

(And with Trump, that is no stretch)

One could always speculate that they are trying out scenarios in case he REALLY needs to make an exit on short notice.

[PJMcK]

10. Thank you, Grasswire2

The speculation about Trump's health reached nearly a CT level yesterday. The White House, of course, lies all the time so it was impossible to know what was really going on.

Your knowledge and explanations make so much more sense.

Something happened to Trump yesterday. But he didn't have a heart attack, unfortunately.

[Jewls2]

13. And so we are left with mystery and lies.

So, it wasn't his heart. What else takes one to the hospital at that age, with what he has in WH? Stroke? I really do not have the info, curious though.

And so, .... we are left with mystery and lies.

[42bambi]

17. Be Best. I don't really care, do you. He

has cried wolf too many times...how could anyone believe him.

[crickets]

18. Mentally estimate the number of threads you've seen on this topic from yesterday and today.

Think about the amount of time spent reading them, and associated tweets, etc. This is time you didn't spend reading or researching anything else. Distraction achieved! Yovanovitch, the hearings from last week and those coming up are still fairly hot topics, but the temperature was lowered and the guaranteed saturation of the headlines was broken up.

In some circles, there was likely a little sympathy generated where loyalties might have started to waver otherwise. People whose support was weak, who might have taken time to think and formulate a change of opinion had a sudden "SQUIRREL!" thrown their way to put a stop to that.

Everyone's attention was, at least for a time, turned away from impeachment.

Momentum interrupted. Attention diverted.

There you go: another successful psyop.

[Jewls2]

21. Tough task master.

I have spent probably an half hour considering his trip to the hospital. I can well afford taking an half hour break on all my other "research".

[Grasswire2]

33. yep nt

[Historic NY]

19. He was carrying a envelope ....

must be that famous transcript...

I wonder if he finally read it....

[womanofthehills]

41. Some people think he was carrying a medical device

[DrToast]

23. Good points, also...

If it was truly an emergency they probably would have helicoptered him to Walter Reed.

[elias7]

24. Not so fast doc...

The value of cardiac enzymes is in how long a patient has had chest pain.

Troponin tends to take upwards of 4 hours to become measurably elevated in the blood. The current standard in EDs is drawing a second troponin at 6 hours of symptom onset.

So if someone had chest pain for 6 hours and has an ECG that is unchanged from baseline, and does not have a “great story”, e.g. exertional symptoms that come with activity, resolve with rest, or other suspiciously cardiac sounding history, THEN a single troponin could effectively rule out a cardiac event.

An indeterminant troponin (varies with different labs, perhaps 0.4-0.12) would be extremely concerning if someone had chest pains for say, one hour; possibly concerning if someone had pains for 3-4 hours. Either way, serial enzymes (usually 2 more, not 3) would be required. If enzymes were flat, look for alternative explanations of indeterminate levels, e.g. chronic kidney disease.

If Trump had chest pains for an hour or two, he would require at least a second troponin at 6 hours.

I do agree, however, that if Trump had any suspicion of active coronary disease, the ordeal would not have been over in one day.

[hlthe2b]

30. Yup... this

[Grasswire2]

34. nah

You are assuming he had chest pain.

Fact not in evidence.

If he had chest pain, he would not have walked to the limo.

[elias7]

48. I've not assumed anything, just clarifying how a possible cardiac event is evaluated

I do have a little expertise in these matters, as I do this for a living...

[Unclephil]

26. constipation

[hlthe2b]

28. Troponin-I on fingerstick using a I-stat handheld device is a reliable screen; however borderline

results would need to be validated with a venipuncture POC test for exact Troponin levels and repeat testing.

I'd also note that use of hand-held device for Troponin testing varies considerably by level of experience for the "operator", though the differences diminish within EDs as opposed to clinic settings.

My best guess is probably anxiety induced chest pain and the WH physician didn't want to take a chance on a screening test--or quite possibly he got a borderline result that required confirmation/serial testing.

And I am intentionally ignoring the issue of timing with respect to angina onset which we could discuss for the rest of the afternoon.

[Grasswire2]

35. I do not agree that chest pain is indicated.

If he had been symptomatic, he would not have been allowed to walk to the limo.

[hlthe2b]

37. I didn't say they had established angina.

It may well be that the physician had ruled out angina and was merely looking for additional corroboration as one might expect when dealing with a head of state.

And, no, as already established by prior physician Ronnie Jackson (not to mention the Long Island physician) they are not beyond bending standard procedures for patient demands up to a point--I'd bet that would include an anxiety attack for which they had ruled out or largely ruled out a cardiac event. And, in fairness, Trump would not be the first President whose physicians concealed a health condition and/or diagnostics/treatment from the public.

[Grasswire2]

38. sure

and we're all just speculating, agreed.

NBC says they will see him at WH tomorrow, as the pool reporters for the day.

[hlthe2b]

39. He is a cardiovascular/cerebrovascular trainwreck waiting to happen. On that I think we can agree

[Grasswire2]

43. yes

and hopped up on substances, too.

Add in dementia and manifestations of Narcissistic Personality Disorder and he's a nightmare.

I was in the ER Friday night for a reaction to an antibiotic and the place was full of screamers and drunks and just wild people. Can't imagine treating Trump if he was in a fit.

[brush]

32. How can we be sure of no heart damage when we can't be sure of any ino...

Last edited Mon Nov 18, 2019, 08:42 PM - Edit history (2)

out of the WH?

And what about that "phase one" baloney when there's never been a phase one before?

This reminds me of how the Sanders camp was reticent to admit his heart attack. Today's scheduled event was held in the residence, not the Oval office and he didn't play golf this weekend, nor been seen.

Something serious enough to go on an unscheduled hospital visit happened.

[Grasswire2]

42. we just don't know except..

Too cold to play golf.

Insiders say he simply got stir crazy.

He loves to pull stunts to capture the conversation.

Doesn't look like he was ill enough to keep him from walking to limo.

Story doesn't make sense.

13,000 + lies.

No corroboration.

We should have learned by now to NOT accept what WH implies.

He said it himself: "What you see isn't what's happening."

[lettucebe]

45. I recently had a Takotsubo attack and they checked on the spot for heart attack

which was so interesting because they said it indicated a heart attack but they felt it wasn't accurate, and they were correct.

Takotsubo is when the heart muscle changes shape to resemble a Japanese fishing pot called a takotsubo (hence the name). This causes the heart to be unable to function properly (but it is not a heart attack), and leads to other issues.

So, absolutely they would be able to check for this. Most likely a panic attack and he wouldn't accept what he was told (as usual)

[cwydro]

47. Huh? I thought it was Saturday.

This makes no sense.

Not that any of it does.

[Tiggeroshii]

52. I doubt he had heart damage

You need a heart for that.

[Shrike47]

53. He wanted to change the story from impeachment and generate some concern for him.

Stir things up, that’s Trump.

[tblue37]

54. He gets bored because he never works. nt

[KentuckyWoman]

57. You are wrong.

You are close, but not quite on. Depending on symptoms, it doesn't matter what the first Troponin test shows if the symptoms are there. The key is the symptoms + EKG + 2nd bloodwork.

I don't mean to nit pick -- I've been in the situation personally a few times and I just don't want another DU in that situation to have wrong info.

This said, the whole thing re: Trump is one lie beginning to end. I'd be shocked if he was ever actually at Walter Reed, let alone the rest of the story. He just lies constantly.

[Grasswire2]

58. well, you are not right.

You are assuming fact not in evidence. If he had symptoms, he would not have been allowed to walk to the limo. Therefore, he was not symptomatic.

Several times, I've been in the situation and been sent home after the first troponin test. Friday night, in fact.

And I worked ten years in a CCU and eight more in an internal medicine practice.

In any event, his physician has said that no cardiac or other urgent testing was done.

[KentuckyWoman]

59. I was speaking to the test... not one specific individual.

With your medical background, then you know patients vary. My experience is quite different than yours. I've had it go out to the 3rd before it hit positive range. The people I know who've been in the situation have a unique experience as well.

A personal friend was sent home after a negative result and died getting out of the car in his driveway. He said on the way home he just didn't feel right but didn't want to look stupid turning around and going back. Now he's dead.

I honestly don't mean to pick a fight. I think we are both right. Yes, you are correct on the "standard" but that's not the whole picture is all I'm saying. I just don't want anyone who reads this to think 1 negative test puts them in the clear. If your instincts tell you that you are in trouble then please be sure the ER keeps you long enough to really make a good diagnosis.

[Captain Zero]

60. It was something concerning covered up by a Fake Physical

#FakePhysical