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H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 01:14 PM Nov 2019

Roger Stone's Head

“When I use a word, ….it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.” – Humpty Dumpty

“The question is ….whether you can make words mean so many different things.” – Alice

“The question is ….which is to be master.” – Humpty Dumpty

Lewis Carroll; Through the Looking Glass



Words are curious things. They can be used properly or improperly. As I've noted in the past on this forum, when the ancient philosopher Confucius was asked what he would do if he had complete political power, he said he would insist that people use words properly.

In Genesis 11: 1-9, we find the allegory of the Tower of Babel. Those who approach this ancient myth with concrete thinking believe it describes why the peoples of the earth speak different languages. Those with understanding of what specific words were intended to communicate recognize that there is a higher meaning.

Obviously, these are the things I find myself thinking about during the short break in today's House impeachment hearings. Gym Jordan and Devin Nunes are clearly attempting to distract and confuse the public with their choice of words. As toxic as we might find Stephen Castor, it is important to recognize that his choice of words is entirely proper in the context of an attorney representing a guilty-as-sin client in a criminal court hearing. And that word – “criminal” – is the most accurate possible to define the Trump administration.

I've found the witnesses this morning to be precise in describing the Trump corruption. Like last week's witnesses, they are honorable people. While it is highly unlikely that I would agree with them on every political and social issue, I have great respect for them. I recognize that they are putting not only themselves, but their families as well, at risk of retaliation from the administration and those who support them.

It will be interesting to see what Gordon Sondland does tomorrow. Will he even show up? Take the 5th? Or tell the truth? Time will tell. Equally, if not more important, will be Fiona Hill's testimony on Thursday. Gym and Devin will be in way, way over their heads.

I am extremely impressed with Chairman Adam Schiff. I've long had a very high opinion of him, yet the respect grows daily. He is taking his place in history, ranking with the honorable people who have taken a just stand in the national scandals that have taken place during my lifetime …..all of these scandals, by no coincidence, taking place in republican administrations.

Certainly among the most impressive participants is Daniel Goldman. I find it a bit ironic that he worked under Preet Bharara in the Southern District of New York. To paraphrase my friend Rubin Carter, what goes 'round comes 'round, unless you have Roger Stone's head, because then you've got nothing at all.

32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Roger Stone's Head (Original Post) H2O Man Nov 2019 OP
lovely post, as always. NRaleighLiberal Nov 2019 #1
Thank you! H2O Man Nov 2019 #2
Drives me crazy to listen to noones coeur_de_lion Nov 2019 #3
Right. H2O Man Nov 2019 #4
There you go coeur_de_lion Nov 2019 #8
Do you want H2O Man Nov 2019 #19
I'll take the gloves coeur_de_lion Nov 2019 #20
Okay. H2O Man Nov 2019 #23
Cool. coeur_de_lion Nov 2019 #27
Good. H2O Man Nov 2019 #29
Nope coeur_de_lion Nov 2019 #30
Shakespeare said it so well lunatica Nov 2019 #5
I love it! H2O Man Nov 2019 #6
Stefanik is just about the best thing that has happened lunatica Nov 2019 #7
Is Stefanik at it again? Danascot Nov 2019 #9
Yes. I watched her doing it about an hour ago. lunatica Nov 2019 #10
In my opinion, H2O Man Nov 2019 #18
Tedra Cobb H2O Man Nov 2019 #13
Goldman is excellent malaise Nov 2019 #11
They are both so good! H2O Man Nov 2019 #15
That's it...I just figured out what I need for Christmas gifts pecosbob Nov 2019 #12
Very good! H2O Man Nov 2019 #16
I am also very impressed with Adam Schiff et al. Hekate Nov 2019 #14
Adam Schiff is great! H2O Man Nov 2019 #17
I agree about Fiona Hill blogslut Nov 2019 #21
I can't wait. H2O Man Nov 2019 #24
Oh Wise One Would you please fast forward one year coeur_de_lion Nov 2019 #22
Holy cow! H2O Man Nov 2019 #28
The skull inside the skull Kid Berwyn Nov 2019 #25
+100 kentuck Nov 2019 #32
As always, your words are spot on! Liberal Jesus Freak Nov 2019 #26
The truth is the way. kentuck Nov 2019 #31

coeur_de_lion

(3,676 posts)
3. Drives me crazy to listen to noones
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 01:22 PM
Nov 2019

He really tries to make it seem that trump was justifiably concerned about Biden payoffs and attempts to squelch investigation of his son. I turned him off then I was unable to reconnect and listen to other parts of the hearing.

Little asshole. Give me 5 minutes with him so I can tell him what an asshole he really is.

coeur_de_lion

(3,676 posts)
20. I'll take the gloves
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 09:10 PM
Nov 2019

and a lead weight to go in each.

I don't want to break a nail on his pudgy face.

coeur_de_lion

(3,676 posts)
27. Cool.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 10:10 PM
Nov 2019

I loved the way Vindman stood up to the GOP clowns today but I must admit the very idea that a man who served his country honorably is vilified by them while another accused of war crimes is pardoned is makin me sick right now.

I need a break. And I need to read a book that will completely take my mid off of the bullshit reality show tRump is putting on.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
29. Good.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 10:11 PM
Nov 2019

I'd suggest reading Laurence Tribe's newest book, which is on impeachment. It will help you escape from the Trump show.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
5. Shakespeare said it so well
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 01:40 PM
Nov 2019

...Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time.
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle.
Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

*******

We’re neck deep, struggling to stay afloat in our very own Shakespearean tragedy. A madman is at the helm in this ship of state.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
6. I love it!
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 01:48 PM
Nov 2019

Thank you for that!

I've tasked an associate with gathering information on Elise Stefanik, who I find particularly annoying. It is someone who grew up with her.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
7. Stefanik is just about the best thing that has happened
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 02:01 PM
Nov 2019

to the Democratic Party this week. Let’s hope we hear much more from her!



Just for a moment imagine how she influenced around 44,000 people to donate money to her Democratic opponent in less than 24 hours. Tedra Cobb, her opponent, received one million dollars with an average donation amount of $23.

And Stefanik persists today.

Danascot

(4,690 posts)
9. Is Stefanik at it again?
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 02:16 PM
Nov 2019

I sent Tedra Cobb $25 over the weekend and I'm looking to Stefanik for an excuse to do it again.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
10. Yes. I watched her doing it about an hour ago.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 02:24 PM
Nov 2019

No change whatsoever from the performance yesterday. Gym Jordan too.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
18. In my opinion,
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 09:08 PM
Nov 2019

she's dangerous because she is a heck of a lot more intelligent than the vast majority of republicans in DC, but just as corrupt.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
13. Tedra Cobb
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 07:02 PM
Nov 2019

is very impressive. That's one of the congressional election contests in my state that I'll be active in.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
15. They are both so good!
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 09:03 PM
Nov 2019

I've always had great respect for Adam Schiff. In my opinion, his current works put him high among the greatest leaders in the House. A lot of the people I talk to hope that in the future, he runs for president.

pecosbob

(7,533 posts)
12. That's it...I just figured out what I need for Christmas gifts
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 06:46 PM
Nov 2019

A Roger Stone in prison garb bobble-head.

Hekate

(90,562 posts)
14. I am also very impressed with Adam Schiff et al.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 07:58 PM
Nov 2019

Your fine essay made me miss The Magistrate. Sometimes I wonder how the old Confucian is doing away from DU.


H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
17. Adam Schiff is great!
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 09:07 PM
Nov 2019

I'm so impressed by him.

The Magistrate and other past forum members added a lot here. We had some good times back then.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
24. I can't wait.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 09:48 PM
Nov 2019

She isn't going to play with the republicans. She's a serious person, and an expert in her field.

coeur_de_lion

(3,676 posts)
22. Oh Wise One Would you please fast forward one year
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 09:30 PM
Nov 2019

and tell us where we are as a country?

Is tRump finally gone? Who is president?

Are we still glued to the computer worried sick about what is happening in the White House?

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
28. Holy cow!
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 10:10 PM
Nov 2019

Whoever you are looking for isn't here ....it's just me and the dogs.

It's hard to say. I know that among republicans in the Senate, there are discussions about some research they have had done on impeachment. It has to do with the post-Nixon events. In both the Reagan/Bush and Clinton cases, of course, impeachment in the House and conviction in the Senate were possibilities. Some Democrats were making a good case for impeaching Reagan for Iran-Contra. Even at the time when he denied knowing anything about it, that was a second ground for impeachment.

Republicans in particular argued that, so close to Nixon, it would destabilize the government. They were sincere in believing it would damage the nation domestically and internationally. One of their main points was that Reagan was close to closing a deal with the USSR on nuclear weapons. They also noted he was half-way through his second term, and Democrats had a very good chance of taking the White House in '88.

Enough Democrats went along with it, that Reagan didn't face impeachment. Some Democrats were still intent upon impeaching Bush, but obviously, not enough.

With Clinton, while I didn't think his lies were cause for impeachment, others did. I think more republicans were upset by sex in the White House. When the House impeached him, and sent it to the Senate, there were Democrats unsure of how to vote. So they went to Senator Robert Byrd. Now, Byrd believed Clinton committed an impeachable offense. He actually spoke of wanted to vote to impeach him. But, he said, it would be damaging to the nation. Clinton was also half-way through his second term. Byrd made a comment I thought I'd always remember ....but I'm old, you know, and not very bright .... but Byrd said that there are times when rational thought points in one direction, but wisdom points in a different direction.

Based upon what is known now, it's likely the republicans in the Senate will say what Trump did was clearly wrong, but not enough to remove him. And that's a shame, because unlike Reagan or Clinton, Trump cannot be trusted to not engage in equally corrupt behaviors in the future. Just the opposite -- if Trump remains in office, or "wins" the 2020 election, it is 100% certain he will increase the levels of corruption.

Oh, wait! You asked a question. On November 19, 2020, Trump will be either a lame duck, or a turd that has been flushed away.

Kid Berwyn

(14,802 posts)
25. The skull inside the skull
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 09:54 PM
Nov 2019


The Ghost of Roy Cohn

BY TERRY MELANSON · AUGUST 24, 2014

EXCERPT...

In an interview with former NYPD detective James Rothstein, this author discovered that such operations do exist and go far back into America’s secret history. Rothstein is no conspiracy theorist. He is a legend in American law enforcement and speaks from experience. Furthermore, he gave me two notable examples from his time as a detective. Rothstein had an opportunity to have a sit-down with infamous McCarthy committee counsel Roy Cohn. During this sit-down, Cohn admitted to Rothstein that he was part of a rather elaborate sexual blackmail operation that compromised politicians with child prostitutes (Rothstein, no pagination). Cohn told Rothstein that this operation was being carried out as part of the anticommunist crusade of the time (no pagination).

Rothstein also had an opportunity to speak to infamous Watergate burglar Frank Sturgis. During this conversation, Sturgis revealed one of the reasons for breaking into the Watergate. According to Sturgis, there was a “Pedophile Book” hidden away at the Democratic National Committee headquarters (no pagination). The book was supposed to have a list of pedophiles on the American political scene (no pagination). One can only imagine the power G. Gordon Liddy would have held over the government if he had such a book in his possession.

I asked Rothstein if Roy Cohn was a real anticommunist or just using the fear of communism to justify his sex ring. It seemed like a fair question. After all, Cohn had argued against homosexuals being schoolteachers when he himself was a homosexual. Perhaps Cohn’s hypocrisy extended to his anticommunism. Rothstein made it clear that Cohn was a genuine anticommunist (no pagination). Anticommunist sentiments aside, evidence suggests that the sex ring operation started by Cohn was used for more than fighting the threat of domestic communists. Fugitive ex-CIA officer Frank Terpil has claimed that sexual blackmailing operations directed by the CIA were intensive in Washington during the Watergate era (DeCamp 179). Terpil also asserts that his former partner, Ed Wilson, was coordinating one of these sexual blackmail operations (179). In a letter to author Jim Hougan, Terpil revealed Wilson’s modus operandi:

“Historically, one of Wilson’s Agency jobs was to subvert members of both houses [of Congress] by any means necessary…. Certain people could be easily coerced by living out their sexual fantasies in the flesh…. A remembrance of these occasions [was] permanently recorded via selected cameras…. The technicians in charge of filming… were TSD [Technical Services Division of the CIA]. The unwitting porno stars advanced in their political careers, some of [whom] may still be in office.” (Qtd. in DeCamp 179)

According to John DeCamp, a former Nebraska Senator and Vietnam War hero, Wilson’s operation was merely a continuation of the one set up by Cohn (179). When I asked James Rothstein if Palfrey’s outfit was a continuation of the sexual blackmail rings that began with Cohn, he answered in the affirmative (Rothstein, pagination). The NYPD veteran made it clear that Palfrey’s outfit could not exist in Washington unless it was a tool for the power elite and sinister factions of the intelligence community (no pagination). Somewhere in a Queens cemetery, the corpse of a high-powered attorney is smiling in his grave.

SOURCE:

https://www.conspiracyarchive.com/2014/08/24/the-ghost-of-roy-cohn/



Liberal Jesus Freak

(1,451 posts)
26. As always, your words are spot on!
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 10:02 PM
Nov 2019

I find these hearings fascinating, infuriating, and highly informative. Almost too “pizazzy” for me 😄

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