Fri Feb 21, 2020, 10:30 AM

TruckFump (5,007 posts)

A Pardon for Stone -- Between a Rock and a Hard Place for Trump.

When a person is pardoned -- in essence he or she admits that they committed the crimes alleged and found guilty thereof. A pardon does NOT adjudicate the convicted person to a status of factual innocence. In the case of Roger Stone, this is one of the crimes for which he was convicted:

"Roger Stone sentenced to more than three years in prison for Trump cover-up"

“He was not prosecuted, as some have complained, for standing up for the president,” Jackson said. “He was prosecuted for covering up for the president.”

https://fortune.com/2020/02/20/roger-stone-sentenced-to-more-than-three-years-in-prison-for-trump-cover-up/

A pardon is NOT an exoneration, it is not a status of factual innocence. So, if Trump pardons, Stone, IMO, it is an admission by Trump that Stone in fact and legally was guilty of a cover-up of the conduct of Trump. If Trump does not pardon Stone, then the verdict re a "cover-up" by Stone for Trump stands.

So Trump -- meet Stone, Rock and a Hard Place.

The manner in which Judge Jackson announced the sentencing -- she did a great job of painting Trump into a corner.

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14 replies	Author	Time	Post
A Pardon for Stone -- Between a Rock and a Hard Place for Trump. (Original post)	TruckFump	Feb 2020	OP
Anyone that's paying attention knows the truth - do you really think Trump cares what people think?	walkingman	Feb 2020	#1
In battleground states, yes.	TruckFump	Feb 2020	#8
He will pardon him, but only after the election and n November	still_one	Feb 2020	#2
I agree because at that point, it does not matter one way or the other.	TruckFump	Feb 2020	#9
He has been guilty of a lot of things for a long time	still_one	Feb 2020	#10
Or when	Chainfire	Feb 2020	#11
Trump won't care sadly. He might even be happier	ALBliberal	Feb 2020	#3
Stone will get his pardon.	dalton99a	Feb 2020	#4
Yea but Usually when a person is Impeached.....	Under The Radar	Feb 2020	#5
will make trump a person of interest if state laws were violated and AG's go forward	beachbumbob	Feb 2020	#6
A bunch of pardons the day after election	exboyfil	Feb 2020	#7
Isn't all this a bit subtle for Trump's child-mind?	JustABozoOnThisBus	Feb 2020	#12
IMO, Trump NEEDS to see himself as perfect because he is a narcissist.	TruckFump	Feb 2020	#13
Can't pardon someone who was wrongly convicted?	lame54	Feb 2020	#14

Response to TruckFump (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 10:33 AM

walkingman (5,461 posts)

1. Anyone that's paying attention knows the truth - do you really think Trump cares what people think?

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Response to walkingman (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 11:24 AM

TruckFump (5,007 posts)

8. In battleground states, yes.

The hardcore MAGAts don't give a shit...tRump is their Gawd.

However, for those who did vote for tRump, but had been Obama voters and did not like Hillary, these people could make a difference. Pardoning Stone or leaving the guilty verdict in place does not help tRump one way or the other. Roger covered up for him and it will make a difference to some people.

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Response to TruckFump (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 10:35 AM

still_one (86,955 posts)

2. He will pardon him, but only after the election and n November

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Response to still_one (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 11:26 AM

TruckFump (5,007 posts)

9. I agree because at that point, it does not matter one way or the other.

Right now, IMO, Roger is still a topical subject. Cannot do now.

But whatever way it goes, pardon or no pardon, Roger covered for him and a pardon does not equal factual innocence.

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Response to TruckFump (Reply #9)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 11:27 AM

still_one (86,955 posts)

10. He has been guilty of a lot of things for a long time

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Response to still_one (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 02:45 PM

Chainfire (12,124 posts)

11. Or when

He needs a distraction.

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Response to TruckFump (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 10:35 AM

ALBliberal (1,883 posts)

3. Trump won't care sadly. He might even be happier

to pardon him since he is a convicted felon. In his mind and his cult’s minds his pardons wash away convictions. Absolutely false of course but facts and truth mean nothing to him or his followers.

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Response to TruckFump (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 10:37 AM

dalton99a (73,735 posts)

4. Stone will get his pardon.

Trump doesn't give a shit about judges

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Response to TruckFump (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 10:40 AM

Under The Radar (3,372 posts)

5. Yea but Usually when a person is Impeached.....

It is a permanent mark of poor behavior and they live the rest of their days in shame. But shame doesn’t effect this crowd when they claim exoneration because they weren’t imprisoned.
The normal rules don’t apply here.

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Response to TruckFump (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 10:46 AM

beachbumbob (9,263 posts)

6. will make trump a person of interest if state laws were violated and AG's go forward

as Stone's evidence can be introduced as a finding of fact.

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Response to TruckFump (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 11:00 AM

exboyfil (17,530 posts)

7. A bunch of pardons the day after election

irrespective of who wins. I suspect many more if he loses (revenge to sow chaos - maybe even for cash).

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Response to TruckFump (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 03:36 PM

JustABozoOnThisBus (22,616 posts)

12. Isn't all this a bit subtle for Trump's child-mind?

All he wants is for Roger to get out of jail and for Roger to love Trump.

Roger will be even more expressive of gratitude than Blagojavich.

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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Reply #12)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 04:39 PM

TruckFump (5,007 posts)

13. IMO, Trump NEEDS to see himself as perfect because he is a narcissist.

Roger is a big, black mark on how Trump sees his absolute perfection -- particularly it questions if he truly won 2016 -- he did not really win because he had to get the "prize" by cheating.

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Response to TruckFump (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2020, 04:41 PM

lame54 (33,309 posts)

14. Can't pardon someone who was wrongly convicted?

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