An Interview with a Sociopath (Antisocial Personality Disorder and Bipolar)

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

Dyshae is diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder. People with this condition are often referred to by the media as a “sociopath” or “psychopath”. Dyshae wants others to know that it is possible for a person with this disorder to become better adjusted to the world with the help of intensive therapy.

[Laelth]

1. Cluster B personality disorders are progressive.

They get worse over time. Like Trump, who is an obvious Narcissist, they are essentially irredeemable. The best you can do is to stay away from them.

-Laelth

[Caliman73]

13. Not accurate.

There are treatments for Borderline PD, Narcissistic PD, and Antisocial PD. Dialectical Behavioral Therapy has shown very good success, especially with people who have Borderline PD.

The difficulty with these type of disorders is that they are caustic and strain relationships. People are often estranged from family and other support groups and so they tend to move around to subsist and survive, never understanding or getting help. People with these disorders tend to externalize their situation, often finding fault with others rather than accepting how their own behaviors contribute to the situation which again, leads them away from treatment.

Trump's particular problem is that with his daddy's money, he has not ever really had to face significant consequences for his behaviors. He externalizes like other people with Personality Disorders, but in his case he has enough money and clout to have a bunch of sycophants around him shielding him from consequences. Trump at this point is likely beyond the help of therapy, but other people who receive significant help, can improve their lives.

[Laelth]

15. None of those treatments actually work.

You're not selling me on that woo. I have been surrounded by Cluster B-disordered people all my life. They're shitty people, and they do get worse as they get older.

That said, there's a surgical procedure that might help them (fenestration of the cavum septum pellucidum), but there are three problems involved with this possible treatment. 1) They don't think there's anything wrong with them. They think the rest of the world is messed-up, so I doubt you'd be able to convince one of them to undergo brain surgery when they are certain that they're fine. 2) Try to get a doctor to actually prescribe brain surgery for a person with a Cluster B personality disorder--extremely unlikely. 3) Try to get an insurance company to actually pay for brain surgery to address a Cluster B disorder. Not gonna happen--no time soon, anyway.

No. There's no sound evidence that any kind of "treatment" can actually improve the destructive behavior of persons with Cluster B disorders. Medication doesn't work either. They won't take the meds. After all, they don't think that there's anything wrong with them. If you're upset about how they treat you, that's your fault, not theirs.

-Laelth

[Caliman73]

18. Sorry about your personal experience but it isn't woo. It is peer reviewed & evidence based

It also isn't a panacea an a cure all but it has been shown in clinical trials to work.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2963469/

If you are anti-science then yeah, there is no sound evidence.

You are right, medications do not work because you are not dealing with symptoms, you are typically dealing with trauma and a world view that shapes perception and behavior. You are also correct that as a family member or person who comes into contact with someone with personality disorder, it behooves you to be vigilant and take care of yourself and not get caught up.

I would not ever say that it is anyone's fault. I would say it is your responsibility to protect your own emotional health and set up healthy boundaries with people whether or not they might have a personality disorder.

[Laelth]

21. I don't trust people who make money by claiming they can help people with Cluster B disorders.

They can't. I know it.

-Laelth

[Caliman73]

23. We will have to differ.

I have seen otherwise.

[Skittles]

28. may I say, you two make for great reading

very well done

[sammythecat]

29. I thought so as well nt

[H2O Man]

19. It's important to

understand that sociopath/ psychopath are distinct from ASPD. Because this type were recognized as untreatable, insurance companies did not want to pay for treatment -- which was literally monitoring, court-ordered, and/or attempts by them to manipulate the system. Thus, a change was made, and sociopaths were re-defined as ASPD.

No meaningful expert agrees these are one in the same. ASPDs have a "criminal code of honor," even if they do violate it from time to time. I had great success working with ASPD people, by simply expanding their code, and connecting them with better options.

Although some professionals today argue that sociopaths, psychopaths, and malignant narcissisist are distinct, they are not. Likewise, some claim "success" in treating them. This merely means that they have invested in the client's manipulating them.

However, a significant number of sociopaths will plateau in their 50s. That's not because they've seen the light, or been healed by a wonderful professional. It is simply because it fits their needs. In general, it's tough to compete against younger predators and the law in one's old age.

[Laelth]

22. I respect you a great deal.

I am a bit shocked that you have chimed in on this discussion, but I am pleased.

Understand that I see no relevant distinction between the Cluster B disorders. They're grouped together in a "cluster" for a reason. In all the ways that matter (to me, at least), they are the same.

They're untreatable. They're progressive; the pathology gets worse over time. These disorders are genetic; they run in families. The only known environmental factor that accelerates the pathology of Cluster B-disordered persons is head trauma. The Cluster B disorders are very widespread (as many as 1 in every 8 humans). This isn't some brain defect. It's a feature. It's built into the human genome. For some reason that I can not fathom, we actually need these agents of chaos, but they inflict massive damage upon the people who encounter them.

Because of my own particular circumstances, I have done a great deal of research on this topic. My point to you is that I think these disorders are all caused by the same brain phenomenon--some obstruction in the flow of cerebro-spinal fluid that prevents the brain (a constantly-burning electrical fire) from being able to clean itself out properly. As a result, waste products accumulate in the mesotemporal lobe (responsible for empathy, feeling, and ethics). This part of the brain slowly withers and becomes useless over time. Look at Trump. He's a perfect example.

Thank you for engaging me on this topic.

-Laelth

[H2O Man]

26. It's a fascinating topic.

And, curiously enough, one that I have been talking to a young social worker I know about for the past 48 hours. And I saw one of my old co-workers today, and we are planning to visit with the young social worker sometime soon, since there are advantahes to talking in person, rather than over the internet, as I have been with the person.

I never encountered anyone in my decades of experience who thought that, as a group, personality disorders were untreatable. That is distinct, of course, from individual cases. Some people are simply too damaged, and are comfortable being a person who makes others uncomfortable. For not all personality-disordered people experience suffering, though they cause a heck of a lot of it.

Genetics vs environment is like debating which is more important to green: blue vs yellow. In fact, they are usually the same -- genes create environment, and environment continues the genetic make-up of the next generation.

Head injuries are surely the wild card. In part, due to the head injuries my older brother got in boxing, I focused a lot of attention to them. Luckily, one of my cousins was the head of neurology at Temple U, and was always happy to talk with me at length. Where the brain is injured is hugely significant. Thus,a fighter who gets hit a lot around the forehead -- say, Joe Frazier -- will have significantly different issues than a fighter who takes more punches to the back of the head -- like Ali. When the front is injured, it reduces the person's ability to "read" others, increases episodes of anger, and often results in violence. Hence, the trooper that pulled Smokin' Joe over well after Joe was retired had no idea that Joe would start punching him for no reason. While Joe was nice to those he knew, he wasn't as good with strangers. I'd note that Joe had never been mistaken for anti-social in his life -- he was an honest, hard-working family man.

And while we are are familiar with Muhammad's fate, it's important to note that if anything, he became a kinder and more gentle person after retiring from boxing.

Substance abuse is another huge factor. My cousin told me that those with damage to the front of the brain will find it nearly impossible to remain drug-free for extended periods. Of course, addiction and relapse go together to some degree with most everyone. But certain drugs -- cocaine being but one -- do further organic damage to the previously-injured area. My cousin said that autopsies of the brain were chilling.

Likewise, substance abuse is a very significant factor per personality disorders.

One last thing, just one of many examples. Many years ago, I was assigned the case of a young man who, at that time, was the county's most expensive ASPD. Lots of resources wasted on him.In the 30+ years since I worked with him, he hasn't been arrested, hasn't consumed alcohol (he does smoke pot), hasn't been unemployed or lost a job, has raised a family, and rescues abused animals. I hear from him from time to time. He has no problem telling anyone that talking with me changed his life, entirely for the better. He's not a fan of the government, but he has become a good man. And he was as anti=social as a person can be when I met him.

[JudyM]

37. What did your treatment of that man consist of?

[H2O Man]

39. Good question.

I knew that he was an intelligent, though not formally educated person. And when I started the first day, he was in a crisis with "the system." So when we first met, he was intent upon telling me how smart he was, and how terrible the system was.

Fair enough, I said. Two questions: one, if you are so smart, why are you in the situation that you are today? And second, if the system is so corrupt, why do you behave in a manner that insures it has so much power over you?

He still remembers that day in particular. It made him think. For a smart person does not do stupid things that allows a corrupt system to have power over them. (I did not agree with him that the system was "corrupt," of course, for I was part of that system. But I did recognize that, in some instances, the system fails people. Especially poor people, and he had been dirt poor his entire life.)

[JudyM]

33. So basically they develop self-awareness as well as learn to control their impulses?

[Laelth]

34. They are even MORE DANGEROUS when they develop self-awareness.

They know they aren’t going to change. They don’t want to change. Once they discover what they are, many of them EMBRACE it and become true monsters.

Allow me to introduce you to H. G. Tudor, a self-aware narcissist, who was required by the U.K. to produce videos like the following as part of his “rehabilitation”:

That’s just a sample. I strongly suggest you research Tudor if you want to understand Cluster B disorders.

-Laelth

[JudyM]

36. Eech.

So if they’re so deeply deceptive, is there a way to spot them from a safe distance?

[Laelth]

38. Not really, no.

They are the world’s best con-artists, and they seek out people who are open, honest, loving, and giving. Then they exploit those people to the best of their ability. They’re actually pretty pathetic. Very few of them are actually capable of taking care of themselves. They want you to take care of them. That is their ultimate goal.

Many of us have been trying to identify “tells” for people with Cluster B disorders for a long time. One of the easiest “tells,” I suppose, is what we call the “predatory stare.” They can stare straight at you, utterly engrossed in everything you are and everything you say, for periods of time that are much longer than you would expect from an emotionally-normal person. They’re studying you. They’re learning everything that they can about you so that they can tell you what you want to hear. Then, they will gain the power to manipulate you and get out of you what they want from you.

They are the world’s greatest seducers. They’re excellent at it. Pay attention to the stare. They don’t blink as often as emotionally-normal people do, either.

-Laelth

[JudyM]

40. Whew.

That’s certainly good to know. Thank you.

[Dorian Gray]

30. That's not entirely true

With treatment and continued therapy, they can make progress. But it's tough.

[Laelth]

31. I have my doubts.

First off, if they ever do seek treatment, usually at the insistence of some person who is on the verge of abandoning them, they will not stay in treatment for long—only as long as necessary to appease their “primary source.” For state-mandated treatment, the same rule applies—they’ll continue treatment only as long as they are required to do so. They honestly don’t think that there’s anything “wrong” with them, and they are pathological liars, so they tell their therapists what they think their therapists want to hear, thus creating the illusion of “improvement.”

“Improvement,” itself, is hard to gauge. I would want to interview the people who are affected by the Cluster B-disordered person to see whether or not the destructive behavior had abated in any way, but few, if any, people are willing to pay for such intrusive and time-consuming therapy. I have never seen it happen, in any event. A therapist who relies on “the word” of a Cluster B-disordered person and uses that “word” as the basis for their opinion that the Cluster B-disordered person has changed for the better, is a fool who has been duped by one of the world’s greatest salespersons.

-Laelth

[ismnotwasm]

32. No

The behaviors peak at a younger age and as some of the disorders get less and less attention reinforcement, they essentially can age out of the worst of them. Same with violent youth, males especially tend to mellow after testosterone drops.

There is treatment

Also, it’s interesting the BPD and anti-social disorder are gendered , basically share many of the same symptoms, one with more women and girls diagnosed, the other with men and boys

However I agree not having them in your life is very healthy, and I’ve done that myself, but I regret my step-daughters birth mothers suicide everyday. (She had BPD, and caused a lot of harm) Especially when I attended a CE talking about how people grow out of some of the behaviors, and what treatments are available.

[Laelth]

35. I agree that the Cluster B disorders are gendered.

Last edited Thu Mar 5, 2020, 12:31 PM - Edit history (1)

Men are usually diagnosed as either sociopath/psycopath or narcissist. Women are usually diagnosed as either borderline or histrionic. But I see no difference. I think they’re all the same and all caused by the same brain anomaly (cavum septum pellucidum and/or cavum vergae). These are brain cysts that inhibit the flow of cerebrospinal fluid and cause a build-up of waste materials in the mesotemporal lobe that leads to the progressive atrophy of the part of the brain responsible for love, empathy, and human ethics. These brain cysts occur in approximately one in every eight humans. This isn’t a defect. It’s a feature of the human genome.

If there’s treatment for this, it has to be surgical.

In my studied opinion.

-Laelth

[11 Bravo]

2. I clicked on this expecting to see Hannity tossing softballs to Trump.

[chowder66]

3. That was so good! I was really drawn to his description of what it is like at the 29 minute mark. nt

[Hortensis]

6. That is interesting. A couple of psychiatrists have described

Trump as "empty." I didn't understand what they mean. Did it mean to have no internal life that wasn't response to external stimuli? I have no idea, but his description of his feelings of as waking up to an empty canvas made me think of it.

Becoming as aware as he is was probably a painful road, poor guy. He has a host of problems, but I've read that suicide is a real risk in those with borderline personality disorder because they make themselves so disliked, can't hold a job, etc.

I once tried to chair a committee with a member like that whose husband was a power in the town so she couldn't just be canned. After her multiple attempts to cause trouble, lying to sabotage the project to make others look bad, telling everyone she had my position and trying to countermand my decisions -- and lying about what those were, everyone else refusing to work with her, etc., I'm afraid suicide would have been fine with me. Fortunately, instead she left town without announcement the eve of the event, having lied to my face the week before that her one task was completed (never started though I'd followed up with her), and absurdly stealing things we needed the next day. But having her gone worked for us. That's BPI.

[chowder66]

8. He and his therapist have done very good work. He's very contemplative in his answers.

And good questions by the interviewer. He did a great job and both did a great service to the mental health community.

I went to youtube to give a thumbs up (and the video is resonating with viewers).

[Hortensis]

11. Easy to believe it's spreading a lot of much needed understanding.

Good thing.

[hunter]

14. Sort of like Bill Gates.

But not a billionaire.

[chowder66]

24. : )

[hunter]

4. That dude would be a United States Senator if he was white...

[rainin]

5. This guy would be good at just about anything

He could be a diplomat, a scientist, a politician, a paid assassin, a CEO. He's brilliant and exceptionally self aware. This is an incredible interview.

[Laelth]

17. If he actually has a Cluster B disorder ...

He’s a professional con-man, just like Trump. He’s not actually “good” at anything, but he is a self-centered, top-of-the-line salesman who will bring misery and destruction to any person who is naive, loving, and giving enough to trust him.

-Laelth

[Blue_Tires]

7. They could have just interviewed me?

EDIT: I am *nothing* like him despite having the same afflictions (bipolar/antisocial)

[chowder66]

10. I'm curious. What did you think of his description at the 29 minute mark?

[Blue_Tires]

41. His experience is very different from what mine is...

Granted, there is a very wide range of severity with these kinds of disorders... He's much higher functioning than I am

[yardwork]

9. Marking to read later

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

12. Same here. Don't have time for 30 min video right now

But seems interesting.

[Dem2theMax]

16. Kicking to come back later to watch.

[appalachiablue]

20. Do we know what Dyshae the sociopath in the video

has been involved with? Personal or work relationships, criminal activity, what? Tx.

[Niagara]

25. Bookmarked for later