'Get ready': Italian doctors warn Europe

[Ghost Dog]

... In the note, sent to the European Society of Intensive Care Medicine, critical care experts Professor Maurizio Cecconi, Professor Antonio Pesenti and Professor Giacomo Grasselli, from the University of Milan, revealed how difficult it had been to treat coronavirus patients. They said: “We are seeing a high percentage of positive cases being admitted to our intensive care units (ICUs), in the range of 10 per cent of all positive patients... We wish to convey a strong message: Get ready!”

They said Italian hospitals had seen “a very high” number of intensive care patients who were admitted “almost entirely” for severe lung failure caused by the virus and needing ventilators to help them breathe. They said hospitals across the UK and Europe needed to prepare for a surge in admissions and cautioned against working “in silos”. They said it was vital hospitals had equipment to protect staff and that staff were trained in wearing the kit. They added: “Increase your total ICU capacity. Identify early hospitals that can manage the initial surge in a safe way. Get ready to prepare ICU areas where to cohort Covid-19 patients – in every hospital if necessary.”...

... In a separate note, Italian intensive care doctor Giuseppe Nattino, from the Lecco province in northern Italy, has shared a clinical summary of the patients his unit has been treating, which doctors described as “frightening” in terms of what it could mean for the UK. The technical note spells out how patients with coronavirus experience a severe infection in all of their lungs, requiring major ventilation support. It also reveals the effect of the virus, which affects blood pressure, the heart, kidneys and liver with patients needing sustained treatment...

... In an alarming development, Dr Nattino said younger patients were being affected, saying the ages of patients ranged from 46 to 83 with only a small number having important underlying conditions. He added: “The last days are showing a younger population involved as if the elderly and weaker part of the population crashed early and now younger patients, having exhausted their physiological reserves, come to overcrowded, overwhelmed hospitals with little resources left.” ...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-italy-doctors-intensive-care-deaths-a9384356.html

[Leghorn21]

1. +++

Wuhan’s worst nightmare
Italy’s worst nightmare
Coming soon to a hospital near us

deep breaths

[Newest Reality]

2. Gee...

I was just reading that we have about 75,000 ventilators available and it is estimated that we would need at least 178,000 for an extreme outbreak here.

It looks like doctors are going to have to make some difficult decisions and I guess that's "death panel" stuff that we can attribute directly to the "whatever it is" (is it really human?) in the White House and his merry band of incompetent sycophants.

I have not heard of any bold initiative to convert some plant(s) to churn out 100,000 ventilators quickly and those will be much needed. Shit, if it were war, the initiative would be hundreds of people and day and night shifts in dozens of plants to fight the bad guys. Save us? Meh! Yet, that and some other materials would be useful and helpful right now.

Oh, forget it, ah, Trump, (which means screw you in Southern Klingon). He knows ventilators and used to be one, or something like that.

[Ghost Dog]

3. Well, a wartime economy requires some command and control...

as we are observing through international example.

Draeger (Drägerwerk AG of Germany) are big ventilator manufacturers, I see: https://www.draeger.com/en_uk/Productselector/Ventilation-and-Respiratory-Monitoring?page=1

[slumcamper]

11. ...and command and control is contingent on competence. n/t

[Newest Reality]

15. Ah,

I see.

I still have not seen any accurate information about stockpiles. At a time like this, we SHOULD have enough medical supplies, (including essentials like respirators and ventilators, etc.) in stock and ready to go. I know that the amount and storage facilities are kept secret and that makes sense, but that should be in the news. I mean, the release of stocks in preparation.

We do stockpile oil and other items. Notice how Witchdocter Dense and Dr. Wizard Tangerine have not even mentioned stockpiles. This is rather important and, in a wealthy country like this there should be huge stockpiles ready to go. If not, well, I want a refund

[YOHABLO]

21. Those stockpiles are for the 1%

[Newest Reality]

23. Oh,

Thanks for reminding me. I really didn't think of that and should have known.

Hmmm. We can't eat them when they are that sick, though, so I guess we have to be patient.

This is a good time to collect and share recipes.

[Ghost Dog]

42. Ventec, an innovative US outfit, makes portable ventilators:

https://www.geekwire.com/2020/ventec-life-systems-raises-20m-multi-function-ventilator/

[OMGWTF]

14. We don't build many things here anymore.

[Pachamama]

28. Try the number 750,000 ventilators would be needed in pandemic based on numbers

These aren’t things that can be “churned” out... they are usually ordered in advance and get made and delivered many months later. The capacity to make and get up and running isn’t that simple. Fact and bottom line is that we are woefully under supplied and prepared.

We also only have a fraction of the hospital and ICU beds and facilities that will be needed.

[getagrip_already]

4. It's not just the old......

“The last days are showing a younger population involved as if the elderly and weaker part of the population crashed early and now younger patients, having exhausted their physiological reserves, come to overcrowded, overwhelmed hospitals with little resources left.” ...

This just keeps looking worse.

[BigmanPigman]

8. This is fucking scary....

It's like a bad movie. First the old and frail, then the middle aged who are of average health, then the kids who are healthy. Then what, the cats and dogs? Is that the plot?

[ooky]

31. Yes.

A Pomeranian has already tested positive.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-hong-kong-dont-kiss-dogs-no-evidence-infected-2020-3

[Meowmee]

34. That was not correct reporting

The dog tested positive weakly because its person had coronavirus, not because it was infected,. Misinformation like that and the quarantine and fear is causing numerous dogs and cats to be abandoned on the streets.

https://time.com/5793363/china-coronavirus-covid19-abandoned-pets-wuhan/


“Fears about animals have not been helped by the fact that the pet dog of an COVID-19 patient in Hong Kong tested “weakly positive” for the virus. Officials doubt that the Pomeranian, which has been placed in quarantine, is actually infected but instead picked up traces of the bug via environmental proximity, just like a door handle or TV remote control.”

[cwydro]

39. Amazing that a dog has access to the test.

But the average American doesn’t.

[Meowmee]

53. Probably they were scared pets can get the virus too and transmit it

I think it is standard to test animals when “needed” when you have this kind of outbreak to see if they can catch it transmit it. I think we know it was zoonotic originally but not from pets.

As for lack of enough tests for people here we know why that is happening, the loons in charge right now who called it a hoax and failed miserably to prepare etc. China also tried to cover it up initially and look where it lead.

[ooky]

40. Both articles say the same thing.

[Meowmee]

48. Whoever posted this suggested a dog had tested positive and had the virus

That is not the case, he or she does not actually have the virus.

[ooky]

50. Nothing was "suggested". The linked article states the dog

tested positive.

[Meowmee]

54. There was a post I think our dogs etc will be getting it next, you then stated a dog tested positive

If your read the article that is not really correct, since the test was a weak positive and no one thinks the dog actually has the virus.

[ooky]

56. Which was correct, since the dog tested positively, and linked it.

That's what links are for.

[CountAllVotes]

52. +1,000+++++

The CCP releases such data to implement fear.

It is aka propaganda!

Anything at all will do, esp. your dog or cat being infected so you will forget that YOU or someone YOU know may get or may already be sick!

Do not believe the propaganda from the CCP, the most recent one being that the hospitals are now empty and everything is back to "normal" again.

There is no "normal" with the CCP!

They are all about control and there is no better way to control a populace than FEAR!

Please remember: Knowledge is POWER!!

[C_U_L8R]

5. And here we have a clueless numbnut at the helm

We may not be entirely doomed but we're in very deep shit.

[bronxiteforever]

6. This is really bad news. The strain on the system

,if this is accurate, will impact healthcare to all hospital patients in the US.

[dewsgirl]

7. I saw a horrifying policy they are considering earlier,

I am praying is only rumor.

[liberalla]

44. What possible policy/rumor are you referring to?

[dewsgirl]

45. It involved age limits and the elderly in the ICU in Italy.

In hospitals that are overwhelmed.

[liberalla]

46. As in choosing who might receive care and who might not... is my guess

Horrifying, yes... and scary.

[dewsgirl]

47. I have followed this virus through all sorts of scary twists

and turns, as it spread worldwide. That story came from an Italian guy speaking broken English, in the red zone in Italy, he was mortified. It literally chilled me to my core.

[Horse with no Name]

49. They had to do that during Hurricane Katrina

My understanding is that the providers that did this had a lot of difficulty afterwards.

[dewsgirl]

51. I didn't know that, at the time we donated, but I was young

had a young family at the time, didn't follow the coverage that closely. How absolutely devastating.😔

[Horse with no Name]

55. I don't think people understand that it devastates providers

When there are bad outcomes.
I’ve seen it up close and personal.

[appalachiablue]

9. *GD, I WANT TO X- POST THIS IN 'HEALTH' IF OK

[Ghost Dog]

12. Sure. That would be useful, thanks. Nt

[appalachiablue]

13. Got it, TY!

[slumcamper]

10. Question: In a competitive healthcare market (let's say a small city with 2-3 competing hospitals)--

does the private, competitive, for-profit market system lend itself to effective coordination and response?

Just asking...wondering what others think.

[tclambert]

19. It might be better for the profitability of a hospital to refuse to treat COVID-19 patients.

Seems like lots of dying patients under quarantine protocol would cost a lot and might scare away other customers.

Maybe I'm thinking wrong, though. If you can come up with a good way to monetize the fight against COVID-19, maybe you want to monopolize treatment of those patients.

Either way, it seems like coordinating with the other hospitals would be tantamount to helping your competition. For the sake of maximizing profits, each hospital would want to see the others fail.

[Hoyt]

29. There are laws that require hospitals to stabilize patients regardless of ability to pay.

Doesn’t mean some won’t try, though.

Plus, most of these hospitals aren’t going to risk costly liability suits where the jurors would likely kick their greedy asses.

Again, some will try to shirk their public responsibility, but they’d be risking a lot.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

32. I believe the rule is that if they accept Medicare payments, they must accept all comers. But they

only need to stabilize a patient who can then be discharged. This has always been true. Or at least for some long time now.

[Hoyt]

33. If a patient is in respiratory distress, it's difficult to discharge them home. And, if

they are elderly on Medicare, most for profits take Medicare patients.

I don’t think many hospitals will discharge patients in distress. If the do in this case, the public will kick their greedy asses.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

35. Oh, you'd be surprised.

However, if a patient has health care, including Medicare, they'll be admitted. The stabilizing and discharging is for uninsured patients.

[Hoyt]

36. They'll discharge, If they are willing to pay the EMTALA penalties and any civil awards.

[bucolic_frolic]

22. It's a very relevant question

I think county departments of health will be the public health part of the response, and that elements of the private healthcare system will cooperate to a point. But they are unlikely to treat private goods as a public supply of goods. Of course if the pandemic becomes large enough - swamping ICUs - it won't make a lot of difference.

[bucolic_frolic]

16. very frightening

Thank you for posting.

[AlexSFCA]

17. the virus is much worse than initially thought

it appears that China underreported the number of deaths by an order of magnitude.

[tclambert]

20. But dear leader has a "gut feeling" that the fatality rate is really very low.

Who you gonna believe? Doctors? With actual data? Ha!

[DENVERPOPS]

25. But, my brother is a Dr.

yea right, a PHD in EE..........

The only way he will ever say anything bad is if he can use it to postpone the Presidential election.
And it may take four years! Then of course we would get Ivanka from then on.......

WASF

[AlexSFCA]

26. worse yet - Pence, who engineered hiv epidemic in rural indiana

he is in charge

[SiliconValley_Dem]

38. Of course they did. They always under report bad news and

Over report GDP growth.

[DFW]

43. A friend in Paris heard from a friend of his who was there, but forbidden from sending reports

When the guy got back to Paris he told of piles of frozen body bags he SAW outside hospitals in provincial cities, and they were in the hundreds. This is from a MONTH ago.

I chalked up it up to hyperbole. Maybe I was hasty.

[PatrickforO]

18. Jesus.

This is bad. Very bad.

[Grokenstein]

24. Don't worry!

Generalissimo Corpulente will force all the "sufferers" into quarantine on ships so the numbers stay down!
Hashtag winning!
The war of ideas!

[mitch96]

27. " 'Get ready':"

Can you imagine how this is gonna run thru the migrant camps???? This is gonna get messy real quick..
m

[Newest Reality]

30. The homeless, too.

I imagine that it will be like wildfire when you don't have heat, running water, your own bathroom, etc.

I know from experience, you can't stay in a tent or car very long at all just because of necessities.

[ansible]

41. California is going to be pandemic central when this finally blows up

[SiliconValley_Dem]

37. These fuckers in America first go it alone Trump WH

Haven’t told us anything resembling this level of transparent information.

I never want to hear from the orange blowfish again on the subject of Coronavirus other than him sweating and coughing at one of his HeeHaw Hitler rallies