Pre-market (overnight trading) down 2%

[Demovictory9]

https://money.cnn.com/data/premarket/

U.S. Stock Futures
S&P -64.50 / -2.25%
Level 2,801.25
Fair Value 2,880.13
Difference -78.88
Data as of 12:54am ET
Nasdaq -178.00 / -2.14%
Level 8,153.50
Fair Value 8,368.74
Difference -215.24
Data as of 12:54am ET
Dow -516.00 / -2.08%
Level 24,333.00
Data as of 12:54am ET

[question everything]

1. Thank Trump's pals in Moscow and in Riyadh

[Hugin]

2. The rally today was mostly an accounting trick and rumors of throwing Social Security into the Stock

Market.

The second trading stopped the indexes swung negative again.

[Demovictory9]

3. he's going to have to promise something big tomorrow

[Hugin]

6. They announced some sort of meeting between the WH and Congressional GOPpers...

to discuss the alleged Payroll Tax Cut.

It's going to be hard to get there without the House.

Never mind Powell's already famous observation that cuts don't reduce infections.

[Grasswire2]

4. Trump has not talked to Nancy Pelosi about his payroll tax scheme that calmed the markets.

Ergo: It's empty rhetoric. Scam.

[Demovictory9]

5. pre market down almost 700 points now

[Hugin]

7. Yep.

All they have left is hubris.

[Awsi Dooger]

8. There will be some up days

But overall trend will continue to be down.

I'm going to be surprised at any trading day near break even.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

9. Earlier today someone told me that, according to her husband

who is apparently some kind of a day trader, that overnight last night the market zeroed out. I could not convince her that could not possibly happen. She fell back on, "Well that's what he told me."

I pointed out, as I often do here, that the stock market periodically makes new highs, but it never makes new lows. Or at least it hasn't since 1934 or thereabouts, but I feel pretty confident in my statement.

All of those here who sold everything in recent months or years ought to start cautiously buying. Not too much at a time, but buy nonetheless. I don't happen to have extra money to do so, but I have a good financial guy and I'm simply not very worried. Yes, my portfolio value has dropped, but not enough that I need to lower what I currently take out monthly to supplement my SS, pension, and two annuities. In short, I have income from several sources, and can weather an even greater downturn in the future.

I will say that if the Dow were to drop 90% as it did during the Great Depression, I'd be hurting somewhat. Somehow, I don't see that happening.

[Hugin]

10. He may have a number in mind which excludes the recent speculation bubble and bull market hubris...

Driven by the growth uber alles permabulls.

As, I do on a combination of certain indexes. But, there's still a way to go before I declare a bottoming out.

Right now, I feel the fall of the markets is reflecting a long overdue correction dating back to at least 2014.

True, it's painful to watch, but, there is a whole lot of pain in the era of Trump.

If the pull back exceeds my calculated threshold, I'll believe there is indeed a recession. I won't be surprised, though..

[kurtcagle]

11. I'd suspect by zeroing out

he was referring to hitting a local minimum. The DJIA came very close to hitting Trump's low at 23,600 on Monday. She could also have been talking about hitting percent drop limits (I think an automatic pause in the markets occurs at 8%, depending on the exchange).

Indexes are always relative. Had the market dropped 2000 points in a day in 2008, it would have been close to a 17% drop in a single day. At 25,000, it's about an 8% drop. What's more fascinating to watch right now is the volatility of the markets. Swings of 5-6% within the same trading session are ... unsettling, to say the least.

I think we may go as low as 18,000 on the DJIA, ultimately, before this all finally plays itself out. This means that Trump essentially added nothing to the stock market at that point.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

12. I am sure it was something like that.

But her insistence that the market had gone to zero was both fascinating and frustrating.

And it really sounded, from what she said, that he was a day trader, which means he's been able to do quite well for about a decade, and this somewhat prolonged slide is hurting him.

Anyone willing to gamble in the market right now should be shorting stocks.