Is There Something That Can Be Used As A Ventilator At Home?

[LuvNewcastle]

I've been reading about survival of people over 60 in this pandemic, and things are looking pretty grim. I'm scared for my parents, mostly, who are both around 70. I've heard that in triage situations in overflowing hospitals, doctors don't usually want to use scarce ventilators on older people so that they can be used on younger people who stand a better chance of surviving.

So I was thinking that maybe if there was some sort of machine available at Walmart or wherever that could be used as a makeshift ventilator, maybe a person could buy one of those to be used instead of taking a dreaded trip to the hospital. I use a CPAP machine and so does my dad, but I told my dad today that he and my mother might both get sick at the same time, so maybe he should buy something for them to have just in case. Maybe some of you are familiar with machines like this and can make some suggestions.

I'd prefer not to take them to a hospital, especially if they're going to be ignored. I've spent about 2 of the last 6 months in the hospital and I can tell you, nursing staffs are already stretched thin. Being in one of those hellholes when they're maxed-out would be a nightmare. I'd rather die here at home.

[2naSalit]

1. I think that

an oxygen supply is needed as the reduced lung capacity would require a concentration of oxygen to have an effect.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Also if the oxygen level is wrong, that in itself can be bad, I think.

[hlthe2b]

7. Exactly. 100% O2 without CO2 is deadly

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. And even if only a little high, can cause side effects. Went to college

with a guy who was on oxygen when he was born and said it caused him to lose his eyesight.

[LuvNewcastle]

3. That makes sense.

I thought maybe it would help to force some air into the lungs, but if there needs to be an increased amount of oxygen, then I guess there won't be any substitute. They put me on a ventilator once in the hospital, but I guess I wasn't aware enough to see how it worked. Thanks, anyway.

[getagrip_already]

4. Yes, there are YouTube vids explaining it...

Basic list is an oxygen concentrator and either a cpap or a bipap.

All are commonly prescribed for in home use and can be found second hand.

The limitation is that the patient has to be breathing independently. It is not a replacement for an intubation tube.

But beware, I ain't no doctor and I'm not playing one here.

The cpap assists breathing and the oxygen is obvious.

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. There are calibrations and fittings that have to be done by a professional.

[getagrip_already]

11. The vids cover that.... note I'm not advocating it....

Just that I've seen it shown.

[misanthrope]

23. I had to have a doctor's order

to get my in-home oxygen concentrator.

[getagrip_already]

28. Yes, but they are readily available on craigslist....

Your children will sell it when you pass.

[misanthrope]

29. No they won't

I don't have children.

[Hoyt]

5. You really need to have a doc make that decision. But, here's a Johns Hopkins article I found.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/treatment-tests-and-therapies/bipap. This is for a BiPAP, not a CPAP.


You do ask an interesting question. I bet there are people who a hospital could treat with other than a full-blown ventilator. I read yesterday that they can use the machines used in anesthesia.

In any event -- and I'm sure you know this -- if they are in distress, it's best to call 911 or get them directly to a hospital.

Good luck.

[LuvNewcastle]

12. Yes, mom has two good friends who are doctors, so

we'll have them to turn to for advice. I just thought I would check on this. The world is going to be a lot different after this is over, it seems.

[Docreed2003]

6. A true home ventilator where you are intubated

Would be out of the question for most people. Being put on a vent isn't as simple as slapping on a cpap at night for sleep apnea. In order to have a "home vent", someone would have to place a breathing tube into your trachea, which would require relaxation and sedation meds, then follow your vent for you.

[LuvNewcastle]

10. I see. n/t

[misanthrope]

30. I wondered how long it would take before someone pointed this out

If you've seen it done once, you would have no illusions of doing it yourself.

[Girard442]

13. I cared for someone for many years who needed a ventilator...

...at first for part of the day and then for 24 hours. The ventilators were horrible old machines that were flakey and constantly breaking down. Ultimately, I ended up servicing them, which was a very bad idea, but perhaps the least bad of all the options. This person could not or would not transition to a more modern machine.

What I learned is that there wasn't much to these particular machines: a blower motor, a rheostat to control the pressure, a gauge to monitor it, a simple rotary valve with a rate control that provided intake and exhaust of air, a separate humidifier, and filters and hoses.

First of all, I would never recommend the use of a machine like that to anyone who isn't in dire straits. I absolutely would never recommend anyone try to us a ventilator without medical support unless they were in extremis.

Still, if someone is about to die, and there is no other option, I'd try it.

[LuvNewcastle]

18. Yeah, it would definitely be a last resort.

We just don't have enough hospitals around here. They're all pretty close to capacity most of the time, and only a couple of them have a good reputation. If things go as I'm thinking they will, people are going to die while they're waiting for a bed, or they might even be turned away. It would have been great to have a back-up plan at home.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

14. I think not. Breathing air and oxygen must be certified pure.

Recalling from many years ago in the fire service, anything breathed by humans must be filtered properly to be free of contamination from pumps, germs, oil vapor and particulate.

That's why most fire departments and construction firms buy their bottles air from certified vendors.

Same applies to oxygen. You can't use welding oxygen, for example for human consumption.

You can buy compressors that are designed for the purpose that have all the certified filtration but they're quite expensive. Fire equipment service companies and scuba diving shop have them.

See: https://safetylinks.net/services-organization/industrial-hygiene/breathing-air-testing/

Admittedly, however sometimes we do what we gotta do......

[LuvNewcastle]

19. Desperate people do desperate things.

I'm glad I asked the question now instead of experimenting at home. We're going to see a lot of people try it, people who are at the end of their rope.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

20. You might consider a used/refurbished apparatus as a source.

I think there are companies like Goulds Medical that does that but not sure. If you have a pharmacist friend, they would know ways to save lots of money.

I'm the type that would try to build something at home since I have experience in using similar devices and also in industrial instrumentation, but I wouldn't dare build something for anyone but myself. Too much liability risk.

I wish you the best in finding a way out of your dilemma. Surely there are ways to access used medical devices that are safe.

KY............

[Sgent]

15. In some situations

hospitals use a BIPAP ST or ASV combined with a full face mask and oxygen before ventilating someone.

Unfortunately, so far it seems in the case of COVID-19 almost anyone who needs a BIPAP still needs a vent later on, but often either receives the vent too late or has at a minimum aerosolized a lot of virus through use of the BIPAP -- which venting doesn't do.

[SiliconValley_Dem]

16. Please!! No DIY ventilator ideas

[WestLosAngelesGal]

17. No.

This is not something you want to DIY.

[avlbeerfan]

21. Cpap

A few weeks ago I saw Cpap machines may help if one is in home quarantine. YMMV

[SiliconValley_Dem]

24. That's not true

[cwydro]

25. Um.

Is this a joke?

Making a ventilator from something at Walmart?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

26. I worked for medical device company...

...that designed and manufactured Oxygen concentrators and CPAP/BiPAP machines. The FDA does not certify or suggest using CPAP/BiPAP units for life support. I have heard (but not confirmed) that some countries use such machines in emergencies to help people breath. I strongly suggest consulting a medical pro before trying anything improvised. That thing about 'first, do no harm' makes a lot of sense.

[Yavin4]

27. I have a very dumb question about ventilators

Instead of personalized one, is it possible to build it to scale. Create an entire room or a tent that could act as a ventilator. Or, put multiple patients in one room. Pipe the oxygen into the room and have masks connected to the pumps.

Something like how planes have oxygen masks for each passenger. Or maybe just use planes and their oxygen masks.

Like I said, I know this is a dumb question.