General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLemme Tell Ya Bout Rick Santorum
I lived in PA for many years while Santorum was Senator, and, in fact, voted against him in his crushing defeat in 2006. I also saw Santorum speak to a large, mixed group in probably Spring 2005. A little context, then.
Some people don't remember now, but immediately after he was "re"-elected in 2004, George Bush and his cronies embarked on an initiative to essentially privatize Social Security. This was the great transformation that Bush's "political capital" was to be spent on, and it was an utter catastrophe. The proposed change in policy was so unpopular that many GOPers now pretend it never happened, that Bush never waged a campaign to privatize Social Security that was roundly rejected by the American people. But it happened.
Rick Santorum was the head of the spear for these efforts.
Having twice lost Pennsylvania, and rather badly, Bush sent Santorum into the hinterlands and cities, on something like a 19 location talking tour to sell Social Security privatization. This was the test run, the attempt to sell the Bush changes to "middle America," a supposed "swing state," Philly and "Pennsyltucky," from Scranton to Stillers-burgh, and everything in between. It was a colossal failure. Halfway through his tour, support for privatization actually started declining in Pennsylvania. By the end of it, the Bushies tucked tail and abandoned the policy altogether, leaving Santorum very much with his dick in the wind, as it were.
Certainly, Santorum's defeat can be easily attributed to the bad year for Republicans in 2006, and to his bizarre housing issues (dude essentially didn't live in Pennsylvania, yet had some weirdo and utterly corrupt arrangement relative to the kids' schooling), but I think it was his Social Security privatization tour that really sunk him. It was that bad.
So, I attended one of these events at a, let's say, rather famous of late PA university, ahem. The YAF kids tried to stock it, but the local students Democrats and local Democratic organizations were ready. About 20 minutes before Rick came on, about 50 senior citizens filed in and sat in the front row, to much applause. Here's the take away:
1) On Economics: Santorum is really good at talking to friendly audiences, and really bad at talking to mixed audiences. There are some conservatives who make absurd conservative economic arguments, but it's difficult to pick them apart, because they lay them out in this really attractive way that taps into fundamental American values. The surface is glossy, and hard to crack. Santorum is not one of these. He makes really glossy arguments that appear well articulated, but they collapse under even minor pressure. Santorum's argument for privatization was pitiful. Even undergraduate students were recognizing the flaws and holes and revving up for the microphone halfway through the talk. He got, to put it mildly, sliced and diced on the logic of his argument in the Q&A. It was almost painful to watch. Almost.
2) On Social Issues: Santorum is a fanatic. I don't use that word lightly. He's literally unable to control himself, as we've seen in the last few days. If somebody raises a social issue (and, during the Q&A at his event, it was the LGBT students doing the raising) he comes after them with nasty, aggressive, and nonsensical attacks that actually work against common American values. He seems incapable of stopping himself. He eviscerated an almost timid undergraduate student with some lengthy harangue that had even the old folks shaking their heads in disgust. It was an embarrassing display, and it was all "Happiness is not a goal in life," a real will-to-suffer argument more appropriate to 14th century Popes.
To summarize, then, Rick Santorum is most akin to this guy: You and your friends are out at a bar, and some dude at the bar comes over and starts making conversation. At first he seems like an alright guy, and you're all laughing and drinking, haha what a card! But in almost no time, maybe 40 minutes, he starts getting aggressive and annoying. Since you feel like you liked him at first, you entertain this, but he keeps going and going, until everyone is rolling their eyes and turning their back on him when he talks. Santorum is that guy. He really is.
It's also why his campaign is unsustainable. Right now, the media is in the "what a card!" stage of the Santorum-at-the-bar analogy. It doesn't last long. He can't deal with mixed groups (largely because he really can't knit together the arguments he needs), and he's hair-trigger on social issues. Santorum will be done by February. I'll bet a Grilled Sticky on it.
MH1
(17,573 posts)and he'll be done and out of there before too long.
I damn sure hope we're right because it would be a sick society that would nominate that whackjob for President.
barbtries
(28,769 posts)what a terrible person.
Samantha
(9,314 posts)and share your contempt for Santorum. I am somewhat familiar with his history. A Republican friend of mine recently inquired about him, and the only response I could come up with was that he is beyond weird. Listen for a while and you will see for yourself. She has already moved on.
Sam
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)xfundy
(5,105 posts)and make NEWS. Little Ricky Ass-Juice is incapable of speaking truth, just like all repigs. I just hope some dems can find the balls to deliver TRUTH in public.
Quantess
(27,630 posts)Santorum the vilest of the vile.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)"conservative intellectual" talks when I was there. I found them amusing, and I like argument in general. The worst was Dinesh D'souza speaking to the Young Americans for Freedom - presenting an absurd argument about Iraqi Sunni and Shia that was completely refuted by events in the two or three months that followed, but could have been just as easily refuted at the time by anyone who read the papers.
anAustralianobserver
(633 posts)I'm familiar with conservative Catholics of his stripe. "a real will-to-suffer... more appropriate to 14th century Popes" indeed.
At least he's willing to talk to a lot of folks; he could even be said to be refreshingly sincere - but yeah I got the impression that general audiences that don't show him the reverence and sympathy he needs will be his undoing.
eg this Rachel Maddow video I just saw:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#45907539
(Which may leave Newt (and maybe also Perry?) as the last chance for the base to fall in love again.)
SunsetDreams
(8,571 posts)It sounds like you can't question him at all about anything he's espousing. How is he going to handle a disagreement between leaders of countries, or (hopefully) tough questions from reporters for example. The policies are insane, but it also sounds like he is a rather thin skinned empty shell.
jimlup
(7,968 posts)HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)About that whole "can't handle disagreements on social issues", we're seeing the same thing from Romney on Economic issues. However, Romney's problem is that he doesn't do "glossy". It's more like "I'm a complete bastard, I'm proud of it, and well, shut up."
He's this guy:
Then you got the even nuttier candidates like Gingrich and Paul, who suck at both and almost need to have loaded audiences or they'll wet their Depends.
FSogol
(45,446 posts)AlinPA
(15,071 posts)RevStPatrick
(2,208 posts)But my question for you is this:
What's a Grilled Sticky?
UTUSN
(70,645 posts)Mopar151
(9,975 posts)Went off on gay marrige - started talking beastiality, triangles, all kinda crazy shit, berating the original questioner
Whisp
(24,096 posts)tnvoter
(257 posts)I really dispise the guy and I hope we have a chance to beat him in the general election.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)Like the rest of the RepubliCLOWNs!
marlakay
(11,425 posts)so a lot of her military spouse friends (she lives near pentagon where husband works) who are christians and also use birth control won't vote for him. They like that he is conservative but he takes it way to far. Glad to know there finally is a line somewhere!