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NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 09:42 AM Mar 2020

Please Stop Minimizing the Death of Older Adults

https://whatsyourgrief.com/please-dont-minimize-the-death-of-older-adults/

As I write this article, our country is preparing to shut down thanks to the virus-that-shall-not-be-named. Last week my phone was abuzz with notifications and emails canceling sports seasons, lessons, and other events. Starting today, our schools have closed for at least two weeks. The powers that be want to minimize the number of people who get caught in the viruses’ web at once. I pray they’re successful.

As social distancing sets in, there’s an undercurrent of conversation happening in group chats, direct messages, and on social media. People are wondering whether implemented measures are underreaction, overreaction, or just right. With so much unknown, I’m not sure anyone knows the answer – but there sure are a lot of opinions.

One particular opinion, that I’ve heard several times now, drives me especially crazy. It’s an attempt to downplay the significance of the virus by saying, “…only older people die from it.”

I don’t know why people feel so free to say this, perhaps because I’m in middle age they think I’ll find it reassuring, but I don’t. I love quite a few people in their 60s, 70s, and 80s, and it would be devastating to lose any of them. What this statement ultimately implies, whether intended or not, is that we should worry less about the virus because it impacts old and not young.

This stance is not surprising. According to WHO‘s Global Campaign to Combat Ageism, ageism is both socially normalized and not widely countered. So, in other words, we’re so used to the devaluing of older age groups that we hardly see it, let alone cry foul when it happens. These biases extend to how we view the death of older people and the grief of those who love them.

Though the current situation has me unusually heated, the truth is I’ve been meaning to write this post for a long time. The minimization of death and grief related to older people has been commonplace for as long as I know. Just ask anyone who’s received “sympathies” like…

“At least he lived a good long life.”

“Don’t be sad; you had 80 good years with her.”

“It’s the natural order of things.”

“It was her time.”

Statements like these are often a misguided attempt to provide comfort to the person who’s grieving. But in reality, they can be quite minimizing. If you reread them – don’t they all seem like they could be followed with “…and so you shouldn’t be sad.”

When supporting a grieving person, it’s never advisable to try and point out a silver lining. Nor should you ever explain to a grieving person why they should feel any less devastated than they do. Someone they love has just died, and they are entitled to all their pain.


107 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Please Stop Minimizing the Death of Older Adults (Original Post) NurseJackie Mar 2020 OP
Yes. Those doing so sound like the NAZIS! hlthe2b Mar 2020 #1
Yes! When I read what Dan Patrick TrishaJ Mar 2020 #10
Yeah, you can. Igel Mar 2020 #14
Actually the first people they killed were the disabled. They used a phrase LiberalLoner Mar 2020 #16
Read more here, please. LiberalLoner Mar 2020 #17
Caring Corrupted: the Killing Nurses of the Third Reich Kittycow Mar 2020 #46
+1 LiberalLoner Mar 2020 #66
You're welcome. Kittycow Mar 2020 #90
With revelations about the Nazis there's always something new to shock you RVN VET71 Mar 2020 #101
local radio blowhard had a stink tank guest on to say old die of pre existing conditions certainot Mar 2020 #61
Doesn't that sound like the DEATH PANELS dear Sarah warned us about? TexasBushwhacker Mar 2020 #69
It's not just older people. Look at the stats OhNo-Really Mar 2020 #19
Yes, certainly! I can guarantee you that NO ONE here is following stats & epidemiology more closely hlthe2b Mar 2020 #20
Dr. Fauci is 79. He'd certainly be missed at this time. maddiemom Mar 2020 #29
He's been silenced IronLionZion Mar 2020 #36
In Logan's Run, everybody is killed at age 21 to make room for the next generation. lagomorph777 Mar 2020 #100
Thank you! onecaliberal Mar 2020 #2
K&R PunkinPi Mar 2020 #3
Thank you for this article ... CatMor Mar 2020 #4
I've noticed that trend, even on here. roamer65 Mar 2020 #5
Trump has succeeded in turning everyone against everyone. sop Mar 2020 #63
It isn't that hard. Caliman73 Mar 2020 #86
K&R, ... it's not just older adults it's people with some conditions too uponit7771 Mar 2020 #6
This behavior is a perfect example of the attitude toward the elderly in American society. Cousin Dupree Mar 2020 #7
Thank you for posting this n/t mokawanis Mar 2020 #8
My states Lt Gov is says old people should be willing to die for economy cayugafalls Mar 2020 #9
Is it the dollar that is becoming the new God? Eyeball_Kid Mar 2020 #13
Same here. I'm 61 and my youngest is 17 & her sister is 21. Alwaysna Mar 2020 #95
My first marriage ended with the death of my grandmother UpInArms Mar 2020 #11
Heh. It sounds like something MY ex-husband would say... CTyankee Mar 2020 #52
Yes people who call abortion murder are the most ready to sacrifice living elderly. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2020 #12
K&R smirkymonkey Mar 2020 #15
It's called triage. Igel Mar 2020 #18
I had a philosophy instructor who described people's concept of "God's will." Beartracks Mar 2020 #34
I Don't Get RobinA Mar 2020 #39
Maybe false argument isn't the right way to put it. Beartracks Mar 2020 #56
The "It is/was God's Will" argument drives me crazy. Stonepounder Mar 2020 #68
What Lt. Gov Patrick and others on the right are proposing is not triage mcar Mar 2020 #77
Nah, it's who has the $$ to pay for the treatment treestar Mar 2020 #99
Source, please, for that perfect drawing. mahannah Mar 2020 #21
right-click, copy image address Celerity Mar 2020 #24
It was used by the original author... NurseJackie Mar 2020 #25
Neither right-click nor original author provide artwork source. mahannah Mar 2020 #60
I don't know how to help you. NurseJackie Mar 2020 #67
I'm 62 JPPaverage Mar 2020 #22
Seriously I have no words for this crap. dewsgirl Mar 2020 #30
My Dad was sick for 10 years...and we knew he would die...thought I was prepared but I wasn't. Demsrule86 Mar 2020 #49
I lost mine when he was almost 92. The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2020 #53
Wow. Thanks NJ. Truest cartoon ever Laura PourMeADrink Mar 2020 #23
Republican Lt. Gov. suggests elderly should be sacrificed to save the economy Rube Icon Mar 2020 #26
Death panels - Pro-life is a myth. keithbvadu2 Mar 2020 #32
That is a powerful video...who is that guy? Excellent thanks...I wish we could reccomend posts... Demsrule86 Mar 2020 #48
The guy doing commentary is Brian Tyler Cohen. kag Mar 2020 #58
Millennial expression for CV - boomer remover. keithbvadu2 Mar 2020 #27
My brother in laws answer to boomer remover was to whip out his shot gun. notdarkyet Mar 2020 #57
K and R it's horrifying. dewsgirl Mar 2020 #28
Thank you JustAnotherGen Mar 2020 #31
Exactly. To treat those in the 60s and 70s as if they are spooky3 Mar 2020 #37
My mother lived to 90. cwydro Mar 2020 #33
This isn't "ageism". It's sociopathy. Azathoth Mar 2020 #35
No closure bhcodem Mar 2020 #38
This Doesn't Mesh Very Well... jayfish Mar 2020 #40
To Lt. Gov Dan Patrick; HEY ASSHOLE, bubbazero Mar 2020 #41
Thank you for this post I_UndergroundPanther Mar 2020 #42
Thank you. This mindset makes me sick normally. we can do it Mar 2020 #43
Ditto. nt iluvtennis Mar 2020 #47
Don't put an expiration date on people. WestLosAngelesGal Mar 2020 #44
Not only is it disgraceful rhetoric...but it is not true...younger people get this . Demsrule86 Mar 2020 #45
Yes, statistics are better now than when this first started out FakeNoose Mar 2020 #62
I was under the impression quakerboy Mar 2020 #96
Smoking would be a likely reason for higher death rates FakeNoose Mar 2020 #97
I remember when my 99 year old grandmother died. MoonchildCA Mar 2020 #50
Blink of an eye Dem forever Mar 2020 #51
I'm fucking 70 and I didn't come all this way just to witness the U.S. implode by ineptitude. VOX Mar 2020 #55
PREACH, Vox! Preach eom The_REAL_Ecumenist Mar 2020 #94
HEAR.HEAR. K&R Guilded Lilly Mar 2020 #54
Yes! Thank you. Ohioboy Mar 2020 #59
80% hospitalizations for coronavirus are 18-65. jorgevlorgan Mar 2020 #64
I have not heard that statistic. What's the death rate among that age group? NurseJackie Mar 2020 #71
I mean in LA county, sorry... jorgevlorgan Mar 2020 #74
50% of Covid-19 deaths are under 70. SunSeeker Mar 2020 #80
I guess I'm not really clear what the point is you're trying to make. NurseJackie Mar 2020 #83
Of course. It's offensive and wrong on so many levels. SunSeeker Mar 2020 #85
I'm not getting that at all. NurseJackie Mar 2020 #87
Oh no, NurseJackie! I wasn't talking about your OP! SunSeeker Mar 2020 #88
Thank goodness! We were talking past each other! NurseJackie Mar 2020 #89
Source, please? nt. Mariana Mar 2020 #72
in LA County jorgevlorgan Mar 2020 #75
I've noticed the same pandr32 Mar 2020 #65
Ageism. Widespread and not often countered. Yes, that. BlancheSplanchnik Mar 2020 #70
This country's lack of interest in, respect for, and value of colorado_ufo Mar 2020 #73
Do these deplorable anti-life cretins realize how many grandparents are raising grandchildren? mcar Mar 2020 #76
YES Sunsky Mar 2020 #78
The fraud is the claim this is an old person's disease. 50% of Covid-19 deaths are under 70. SunSeeker Mar 2020 #79
Has anyone actually said that? NurseJackie Mar 2020 #81
That is the implication of saying old people should sacrifice themselves.nt SunSeeker Mar 2020 #82
Ah... okay. Your point was not clear. NurseJackie Mar 2020 #84
How old is Mitch Aussie105 Mar 2020 #91
"Asking on behalf of a virus" Rorey Mar 2020 #102
Yeah, I have many relatives in their 70s and 80s. Mickju Mar 2020 #92
Thank You, Jackie.. Exaclty.. When you love someone Cha Mar 2020 #93
I was very glad to hear that this virus was more likely to kill older people than young. Chemisse Mar 2020 #98
It's horrible that there is even a need to write something like this Hav Mar 2020 #103
Thanks, Nurse Jackie. greatauntoftriplets Mar 2020 #104
The news coming out of New Jersey is heartbreaking. NurseJackie Mar 2020 #105
I picture my long-gone parents rolling over in their graves. greatauntoftriplets Mar 2020 #107
K&R Niagara Mar 2020 #106

TrishaJ

(797 posts)
10. Yes! When I read what Dan Patrick
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:01 AM
Mar 2020

suggested, that's the first thing that came to mind. "Let the weak and elderly die to save the economy." Can't get much more NAZI than that!

Igel

(35,296 posts)
14. Yeah, you can.
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:15 AM
Mar 2020

"Kill the Jews and other minorities first."

Nazis didn't round up the elderly for Terezin, Auschwitz, or the other camps.

LiberalLoner

(9,761 posts)
16. Actually the first people they killed were the disabled. They used a phrase
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:23 AM
Mar 2020

That translates roughly to “life unworthy of life” and exhorted families to turn their “burden” in to them to be exterminated. And families did it.

Kittycow

(2,396 posts)
46. Caring Corrupted: the Killing Nurses of the Third Reich
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 11:37 AM
Mar 2020

is a good documentary about murderous nurses snuffing out disabled kids. It's on YouTube.

Kittycow

(2,396 posts)
90. You're welcome.
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 05:34 PM
Mar 2020

I was shocked when I found this information out; I had never heard of these horror hospitals before!

RVN VET71

(2,690 posts)
101. With revelations about the Nazis there's always something new to shock you
Wed Mar 25, 2020, 09:40 AM
Mar 2020

But there is a cross-over with the Republican ethos, dammit. No, they're not yet speaking of camps or crap like that. But they've been complaining, for instance, about the strain on entitlements caused because people are living too long. Of course, if it were to come down to euthanasia, their grand folks would be exempt because, after all . . . .

And Nazism is exactly what I think of when I see posts about the virus "only affecting the elderly." You have to be a nazi-prone scum bag to harbor feelings of acceptance of the death of any innocent person and to establish rules that allow for that death -- because, hey, it won't affect me.

Trump is old and therefore expendable, right?. Maybe he should expose himself to the virus as proof that Wall Street is more important than human life.

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
61. local radio blowhard had a stink tank guest on to say old die of pre existing conditions
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 12:28 PM
Mar 2020

suggesting the death figure is blown way up

i'll bet that's being repeated all over the country

motherfuckers

TexasBushwhacker

(20,172 posts)
69. Doesn't that sound like the DEATH PANELS dear Sarah warned us about?
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 02:02 PM
Mar 2020

BTW, Dan Patrick is a bipolar, twice bankrupt, evangelical Christian who will turn 70 on April 4th.

hlthe2b

(102,225 posts)
20. Yes, certainly! I can guarantee you that NO ONE here is following stats & epidemiology more closely
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:40 AM
Mar 2020

I am responding to the idiot TX LT General's comment only.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
100. In Logan's Run, everybody is killed at age 21 to make room for the next generation.
Wed Mar 25, 2020, 09:26 AM
Mar 2020

Has it come to that? Are we that depraved?

Paleontologists identify the beginning of true humanity as the time when the bones of very old people, and people with healed injuries and diseases appear. That's a sure indicator that humans began helping other humans. When we stop doing that, we are no longer human.

CatMor

(6,212 posts)
4. Thank you for this article ...
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 09:54 AM
Mar 2020

my dearest friend since 7th grade just died. I feel a piece of me is gone and life will never be the same. I am heartbroken.

sop

(10,154 posts)
63. Trump has succeeded in turning everyone against everyone.
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 12:31 PM
Mar 2020

Young vs. old, rich vs. poor, left vs. right, rural vs. urban, white vs. non-white, male vs. female, christian vs. non-christian, educated vs. uneducated, and the list could go on.

Caliman73

(11,730 posts)
86. It isn't that hard.
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 03:41 PM
Mar 2020

You just tell people that those "other" people have something that you don't have, and didn't earn it.


Also, one correction. Rich vs. poor is not Donald Trump's idea. The Rich have exploited the poor forever. Rich v non rich is a valid struggle as the Rich hoard wealth created by everyone else to themselves and try to get the rest of us to fight for scraps.

Trump is just tapping into old animosities.

cayugafalls

(5,640 posts)
9. My states Lt Gov is says old people should be willing to die for economy
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:00 AM
Mar 2020

Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick suggests he, other seniors willing to die to get economy going again

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/texas-lt-gov-dan-patrick-suggests-he-other-seniors-willing-n1167341

I am 60 with a 20 year old in college and I don't want to sacrifice myself on his alter for the economy! The US can bail out the economy instead of giving billionaires and large corporations a free hand out.

Eyeball_Kid

(7,430 posts)
13. Is it the dollar that is becoming the new God?
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:12 AM
Mar 2020

Or is it Trump?

Whichever, expressing loyalty now demands death to the vulnerable.

And Trump's approval rating is over 40%??

Either we're a much sicker society than we ever could have imagined, or Brad Parscale has rigged the opinion polls.

I suspect the latter.

Alwaysna

(574 posts)
95. Same here. I'm 61 and my youngest is 17 & her sister is 21.
Wed Mar 25, 2020, 04:44 AM
Mar 2020

I guess they want rid of people before they draw social security.

UpInArms

(51,280 posts)
11. My first marriage ended with the death of my grandmother
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:07 AM
Mar 2020

It was a shitty marriage and he was a rotten husband ...

But when my grandmother died and I was wracked with grief (I loved her dearly and miss her still - this was in 1984) ... he looked at me and said:

“I don’t know why you are crying, she was an old woman.”

That was it. I kicked him out and never looked back.

CTyankee

(63,901 posts)
52. Heh. It sounds like something MY ex-husband would say...
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 11:51 AM
Mar 2020

I don't have to interact with him very much, but the last time, at our granddaughter's college graduation, I shut him down by interrupting one of his little verbal ditties by telling him "That was boring..."

Oh, his reaction was just wonderful to see...

Igel

(35,296 posts)
18. It's called triage.
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:24 AM
Mar 2020

It's a hard choice.

But unless you're in a very well-off society, hard choices happen. "Do I pay rent or the medical bill?" is a hard choice.

If you're a doctor and have the choice between a 70-year-old person with cancer and a 35-year-old mother of 2 with no other illness, you have a choice. You can let random chance--which one are you standing closest to--decide. Or you can employ some sort of heuristic, apply some sort of morality.

We all have fairly strict moral codes, and we all love preaching our code, insisting that ours is the One True Code no less than the most fervent fundamentalist quasi-pharisee.

Under most codes, the elderly rank lower. Most codes wind up being utilitarian: What brings the most good or the most use to society? If the elderly patient has some other circumstance--has inherited three grandchildren that she's raising while the 30-something has no responsibilities and is the one with cancer--then the heuristic gives a different result. We can argue about utilitarian codes, but if we limit "use or good to society" to things like child rearing, productivity and type of productivity, that metric usually gets fairly wide assent.

If we include less obvious things, like "progressives are of more use than conservatives" then we're at the same level as "Christians count more than Muslims" or "whites count more than blacks." If we say, "Well, this relative here will really miss gramps, while this person over here has all his relatives in Idaho, 2000 miles away" then it's just emotion and bias.

Some people get so caught up in conflicts in their code, or conflicts between their code and their emotions, that they just melt down and say, "I can't decide!!!" That person is back to saying random events dictate things, and that's little different from the fundamentalist who sits there, hands folded, and says, "I leave it in God's hands, God's will be done."

Beartracks

(12,809 posts)
34. I had a philosophy instructor who described people's concept of "God's will."
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:52 AM
Mar 2020

He used the following example:

A very sick baby dies. The family consoles eachother: "It was God's will."

But if the baby had recovered, the family celebrates: "It was God's will!"

It doesn't matter what the outcome is, the family would say it was God's will.

If everything is claimed to be God's will -- that is, there are no examples of something that is NOT God's will -- then one's assertion that God's will was done is a false argument.

(Yeah, okay, not saying God doesn't exist, just that this "God's will" assertion provides no argumentative proof.)

I don't recall what he said this is an example of, philosophically, but it always stayed with me.

RobinA

(9,888 posts)
39. I Don't Get
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 11:13 AM
Mar 2020

why saying it's God's will is a false argument. Now, I AM saying God doesn't exist, but if you subscribe to an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent God, why isn't everything his will? It's one of the things that makes me not get believers. Well, I "get" believers, but it's one of the things that makes me shake my head at believers. I am on a breast cancer forum and when some one has a successful treatment they say "God is good." The first thing my fingers itch to type is, Is this the same God that gave you breast cancer?

Beartracks

(12,809 posts)
56. Maybe false argument isn't the right way to put it.
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 12:13 PM
Mar 2020

But as I recall, if you're arguing FOR something, then the OPPOSITE has to also be able to be demonstrated: what happens when something is NOT God's will? But since nothing is not God's will...

=========

Stonepounder

(4,033 posts)
68. The "It is/was God's Will" argument drives me crazy.
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 12:53 PM
Mar 2020

According to the Bible, "Eve ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil". Translate that into modern and it means that Humans got free will. God was no longer the puppeteer, pulling the strings on the entire human race, we got to make our own decisions. If everything is "God's will" then we have no free will and are just puppets dancing around at a Punch and Judy Show for the amusement of some higher race of beings.

I just can't buy that!

mcar

(42,300 posts)
77. What Lt. Gov Patrick and others on the right are proposing is not triage
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 02:50 PM
Mar 2020
(in medical use) the assignment of degrees of urgency to wounds or illnesses to decide the order of treatment of a large number of patients or casualties.


treestar

(82,383 posts)
99. Nah, it's who has the $$ to pay for the treatment
Wed Mar 25, 2020, 07:41 AM
Mar 2020

This society is individualistic. Nobody is sacrificed for the common good and that's as it should be if everything else is individualistic. If the mother of 2 can't pay and the 70 year old can, that's what determines it.

Also the 70 year old could be a scientist who might discover the cure or contribute to it. There are other factors.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
67. I don't know how to help you.
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 12:42 PM
Mar 2020

The original page that this illustration appears on is all I know about. Maybe you could explore the website and there might be a "contact us" email address or online form (or a phone number) of someone in the office, or the staff, or the art department, or the website design and graphics department... they may have the information you seek.

JPPaverage

(508 posts)
22. I'm 62
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:43 AM
Mar 2020

I recently lost my dad. He was 89. It wasn't easy, even though we knew it was coming. If anyone out there wants me or any of us old people dead then FUCK YOU!!!
Remember, were old and may not care about going to jail if we kill you. Sarcasm.

Demsrule86

(68,543 posts)
49. My Dad was sick for 10 years...and we knew he would die...thought I was prepared but I wasn't.
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 11:42 AM
Mar 2020

I miss him everyday...gone to soon at 65.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,669 posts)
53. I lost mine when he was almost 92.
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 11:54 AM
Mar 2020

He was in very poor health but even though we knew he didn't have long, it hurt a lot when he passed. My mother passed away at 84, 15 years ago, also after a long illness. I still miss both of them terribly. Old people are not disposable. They are our parents and grandparents and in some cases us. Fuck anybody who wants them or us dead for the sake of their fucking stock market. By the way, what will the economy do when the bodies start piling up - and they won't all be old, either.

Just fuck these people.

keithbvadu2

(36,765 posts)
32. Death panels - Pro-life is a myth.
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:50 AM
Mar 2020

Republicans are in favor of killing living babies and have done so.

Pro-life is a myth.

The supposed pro-lifers cared naught when the state of Texas (republican gov, republican Prez) deliberately killed living baby Sun Hudson against the mother's wishes because he was an inconvenience to the state.

It is not a matter of life to the supposed pro-lifers.

It is a matter of control.

keithbvadu2

(36,765 posts)
27. Millennial expression for CV - boomer remover.
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:46 AM
Mar 2020

Millennial expression for CV - boomer remover.

(I'm a boomer)

JustAnotherGen

(31,810 posts)
31. Thank you
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:49 AM
Mar 2020

My mom is 72 and a Democratic Party member. Back in 2016 she drove a few of her girlfriends to Susan B. Anthony's grave site to honor her on election day (She lives outside of Rochester NY).

We are minimizing the deaths of life long die hard Democratics. Her grandparents ALL lived well into their 90'.s

My mom has 20 years left - I don't want to lose her to fucking Donald Trump's stupidity.

If she dies, she asked her obit reads: Died because #45 is inept.

spooky3

(34,438 posts)
37. Exactly. To treat those in the 60s and 70s as if they are
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:58 AM
Mar 2020

Disposable, when they have at least 20+ years of life expectancy, is outrageous. Look at the ages of CEOs, many physicians, presidential candidates, etc.

And it shouldn’t be described wrt the impact on “loved ones.” That’s like saying men shouldn’t be sexist because they wouldn’t like their wives, mothers, daughters, etc., treated like that.

Azathoth

(4,607 posts)
35. This isn't "ageism". It's sociopathy.
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:53 AM
Mar 2020

It's low-IQ high-greed conservatives who are more than willing to have other people make sacrifices on their behalf.

bhcodem

(231 posts)
38. No closure
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 11:00 AM
Mar 2020

Plus with all the restrictions on visiting elderly or attending group activities like funerals, those of us with elderly (or any age) that die of any cause, will not be able to be with their loved ones during their final hours. How cruel and uncaring to take such an attitude.

jayfish

(10,039 posts)
40. This Doesn't Mesh Very Well...
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 11:16 AM
Mar 2020

with the "pro-life" position. I guess they're big fans of Jack Kevorkian now.

bubbazero

(296 posts)
41. To Lt. Gov Dan Patrick; HEY ASSHOLE,
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 11:25 AM
Mar 2020

Mr. Patrick, could you please refresh my (your) memory, 1. WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS TO BE SELF EVIDENT--What Truths are these, Which ones did we FOUND this country on!......2. WHAT ARE THE LAST SIX WORDS OF THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. Can you please repeat those--(schmuck)

WestLosAngelesGal

(268 posts)
44. Don't put an expiration date on people.
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 11:30 AM
Mar 2020

We aren't milk souring in the fridge.
We are living beings.
And this is not Logan's Run.

Demsrule86

(68,543 posts)
45. Not only is it disgraceful rhetoric...but it is not true...younger people get this .
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 11:31 AM
Mar 2020

Half the cases in hospital are people between 20 and 55. I personally know three that are on ventilators in Georgia...one is a child and the other two...husband and wife teachers are in their 30's.

FakeNoose

(32,628 posts)
62. Yes, statistics are better now than when this first started out
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 12:29 PM
Mar 2020

In the beginning the only statistics were out of China and South Korea, and death rates skewed to the elderly and older people. I don't know why, except perhaps as a culture the Asians are more likely to count their older citizens, because they are objects of reverence? In any case, the data we are seeing now (including data from the US and Europe) are showing more frequent deaths among younger victims, and many are under 30.

The first Covid-19 death in our area (Allegheny County/Pittsburgh) happened a week ago and it was a 30-year-old woman. Suddenly the media is figuring out that it's not just old people who die from Covid. This is a game-changer!


quakerboy

(13,919 posts)
96. I was under the impression
Wed Mar 25, 2020, 05:41 AM
Mar 2020

that it was because a large number of older Chinese males are smokers. Makes sense to me that people with a history of having done not so nice things to their lungs would be more likely to die from a virus that also does not so nice things to the lungs.

FakeNoose

(32,628 posts)
97. Smoking would be a likely reason for higher death rates
Wed Mar 25, 2020, 06:29 AM
Mar 2020

... however in China there are (I believe) many smokers among the younger demographic as well.

In general the air quality in many of the densely populated areas of China is bad, and less regulated than in the US. Not that we're so great here, but environmental laws that protect air quality have been enforced here for the last 30+ years. Whereas in China and other parts of Asia they have no such laws or enforcement. It's likely that lifelong smoking, plus the air pollution in some parts of China lead to higher death rates of older folks.

I still think there may have been under-reporting of the younger deaths though. Perhaps younger victims were not tested or diagnosed as Covid deaths. It's just a guess on my part.

MoonchildCA

(1,301 posts)
50. I remember when my 99 year old grandmother died.
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 11:45 AM
Mar 2020

It was 2 months short of her 100th birthday. She lived alone until her last 4 months, though my parents lived in the same complex. Sometimes she took care of them, instead of the other way around.

The loss of her left a large hole in our family. Of course, it was expected, but I still miss her to this day, 20 years later.

 

Dem forever

(79 posts)
51. Blink of an eye
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 11:48 AM
Mar 2020

You may consider yourself young today. But trust me it’s an illusion in a blink of an eye ..you are the old one in society. My mom lived to 100. Never in a nursing home or a drag on her community. Lived in her own home until the end. I’m not willing to die before those republicans are kicked out of office. Trust me I’ll hang around a long time until that happens. A long freakin time maybe 100 years also.

VOX

(22,976 posts)
55. I'm fucking 70 and I didn't come all this way just to witness the U.S. implode by ineptitude.
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 12:10 PM
Mar 2020

And I’m not some dottering, helpless geezer fumbling for his keys in the dark. I gig with a local band, swim, bike, travel (well, I did), etc. I’m finally the master of my own fate, having retired from a 31-year career in higher education.

I’m alert, sound, healthy, and get around with ZERO issues, except for some deafness caused by ROCK AND ROLL, which is corrected by nearly invisible hearing aids. The fun is just beginning, all the heavy lifting is done. I feel like an adolescent without the angst and turbulence.

I will NOT give in to the fascist asshole, nor will I succumb to the virus-disaster that HE MISMANAGED, to put it kindly. I might get sick, but I REFUSE to die. Not yet. I still have much to experience!

Ohioboy

(3,240 posts)
59. Yes! Thank you.
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 12:25 PM
Mar 2020

I've heard this ugly sentiment expressed by many since this pandemic started. The other thing is when people compare the number of deaths with car accident fatalities, as if because people die in car accidents a few more deaths from disease is to be accepted.

jorgevlorgan

(8,287 posts)
64. 80% hospitalizations for coronavirus are 18-65.
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 12:32 PM
Mar 2020

Last edited Tue Mar 24, 2020, 02:41 PM - Edit history (1)

So far. This is not an "old person" disease in the least.


*in LA County

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
71. I have not heard that statistic. What's the death rate among that age group?
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 02:23 PM
Mar 2020

Is it higher than the death rate among older adults? I imagine it also includes a lot of "18+" folks who still have that "I'm invincible and I'll live forever" mentality, the "it won't happen to me" generation who continue to party all the time in large groups for spring break.

The wiser and more realistic "older adults" are the ones who take their health seriously, who understand the risks, who know that life is fragile and who do our best to protect ourselves and to not spread the disease. Yet, for all of our effort... the spring-breakers and the "don't-tread-on-me" crowd will continue to do as they please because "freedom" and other reasons (or something).

SunSeeker

(51,550 posts)
80. 50% of Covid-19 deaths are under 70.
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 03:18 PM
Mar 2020
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/future-development/2020/03/23/a-mortality-perspective-on-covid-19-time-location-and-age/

With an estimated US death toll of 2 million if we don't institute strict isolation, we're talking 1 million US adults dying in the prime of their life over the next 6-18 months.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
83. I guess I'm not really clear what the point is you're trying to make.
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 03:33 PM
Mar 2020
With an estimated US death toll of 2 million if we don't institute strict isolation, we're talking 1 million US adults dying in the prime of their life over the next 6-18 months.
Yes, it's very serious. I certainly hope that nobody is minimizing their lives, or marginalizing their importance.

I guess I'm not really clear what the point is you're trying to make. It sounds as though you disagree with the premise of the OP. Perhaps you feel that the our concern about the recovery rate of older adults means we're not paying enough attention to the "infection rate" of all individuals? I don't know. It's just not clear where you're going with this.

All I can do is repeat that if 50% of the deaths are younger than 70 (a larger group) and 50% of the deaths are people over 70 (a smaller group)... that seems a bit imbalanced to me and it clearly suggests that older adults are at a much higher risk of death. Or less-likely to recover.

I think any frustration you may be observing is related to something I said earlier (just above) specifically, that the wiser and more realistic "older adults" appear to be the ones who take their health seriously. We are the ones who better appreciate and understand the risks. We know that that life is fragile and therefore by-in-large, we are the ones who typically do better in buckling-down to protect ourselves and to not spread the disease.

Yet, for all of our effort... the spring-breakers and the "don't-tread-on-me" crowd will continue to do as they please because "freedom" and other reasons (or something)... and that put EVERYONE at risk, even the ones who have done their level best to minimize risk and exposure.

SunSeeker

(51,550 posts)
85. Of course. It's offensive and wrong on so many levels.
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 03:40 PM
Mar 2020

The suggestion that old people should sacrifice themselves implies only old people will die, which is wrong.

It also implies that old people are expendable, which is evil.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
87. I'm not getting that at all.
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 03:44 PM
Mar 2020
It implies only old people will die, which is wrong.
I'm not getting that at all. I don't read it that way. It doesn't even have that "vibe" or tone or suggestion. At most it's a clear acknowledgement of the well known, well documented and well accepted FACT that older adults are more likely to die.

I saw nothing at all that came anywhere close to suggesting that older adults are the "only old people die".

It also implies that old people are expendable, which is evil.
I'm sure that there are individuals (and administrations) that imply that, but my OP doesn't do that.

SunSeeker

(51,550 posts)
88. Oh no, NurseJackie! I wasn't talking about your OP!
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 03:50 PM
Mar 2020

I was talking about Patrick's suggestion that grandparents should sacrifice themselves!

Patrick is wrong on so many levels:

1. He implies only old people will die. (Wrong. 50% of deaths are under 70).

2. He implies letting old people die is ok (wrong. It's evil.)

3. He implies if we stop the self-isolation it will save the economy. (Wrong. It won't. The economy will still collapse. But with 2 million extra graves.)

I totally agree with your OP.

colorado_ufo

(5,733 posts)
73. This country's lack of interest in, respect for, and value of
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 02:40 PM
Mar 2020

the elderly runs very deep and long. We do not think of them as the keepers of history, as Native Americans do, or as those who are meant to be respected and elevated as in Asia. They are somehow perceived collectively to be useless, weak, and feeble-minded. This simply isn't true!

It took quite a long time to acquire this much knowledge and life experience. And there is no substitute for experience.

Think twice before discarding us older Americans.

We know s***.

mcar

(42,300 posts)
76. Do these deplorable anti-life cretins realize how many grandparents are raising grandchildren?
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 02:44 PM
Mar 2020
Nationwide, 2.7 million grandparents are raising grandchildren, and about one-fifth of those have incomes that fall below the poverty line, according to census figures. Their ranks are increasing. The number of grandparents raising grandchildren is up 7 percent from 2009.Feb 16, 2016

More grandparents raising their grandchildren | PBS NewsHour


In my county, there are many grandparents raising the grands, or great-grands.

Sunsky

(1,737 posts)
78. YES
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 03:05 PM
Mar 2020

I am livid. I can't believe people can be so callous. My mom started having children late, she's now in her 70s. She is so precious to our family. Older adults are not dispensable. Every life is precious. How dare they?

I told Mom, do not go out unless it's an emergency. Everything she needs I or my siblings will supply because these selfish bastards will not decide her fate.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
81. Has anyone actually said that?
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 03:24 PM
Mar 2020
The fraud is the [claim] this is an old person's disease.
Has anyone actually said that? I haven't heard any serious or legitimate source make such a claim that "only" old people get the virus... or "only" old people die from the virus.

If 50% of the deaths are younger than 70 (a larger group) and 50% of the deaths are people over 70 (a smaller group)... that seems a bit imbalanced to me and it clearly suggests that older adults are at a much higher risk of death. Or less-likely to recover.

Aussie105

(5,377 posts)
91. How old is Mitch
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 08:50 PM
Mar 2020

and all his other miscreants in politics?

How old is Trump?

Asking on behalf of a virus.

Rorey

(8,445 posts)
102. "Asking on behalf of a virus"
Wed Mar 25, 2020, 09:48 AM
Mar 2020


Yeah, I don't think I ever heard 45 mention "senior citizens", probably because he doesn't want to admit that he is one.

Mickju

(1,800 posts)
92. Yeah, I have many relatives in their 70s and 80s.
Tue Mar 24, 2020, 08:59 PM
Mar 2020

I’m 76 with heart failure, my sister is 80, my brother is 77 and in hospice care and all of my 1st cousins are in their 70s and 80s. So we are all supposed to die?

Cha

(297,136 posts)
93. Thank You, Jackie.. Exaclty.. When you love someone
Wed Mar 25, 2020, 03:46 AM
Mar 2020

it's just as hard to lose them no matter how old they are.

I think a lot of us have been there.

Chemisse

(30,808 posts)
98. I was very glad to hear that this virus was more likely to kill older people than young.
Wed Mar 25, 2020, 07:04 AM
Mar 2020

I am 65 and I want my children and grandchildren to have full healthy lives as I have so far. I'd much rather worry about me than about them.

That said, I am disgusted by the attitude that it's no big deal since it's just old people who will die, and I am absolutely horrified by the emerging political attitude that the elderly should be sacrificed for the economy!

Hav

(5,969 posts)
103. It's horrible that there is even a need to write something like this
Wed Mar 25, 2020, 10:11 AM
Mar 2020

Someone mentioned triage which I suppose is an unfortunate necessity when we are faced with limited resources. But this is an at best nonchalant attitude purely out of economic interests or convenience (Screw it, I'm going to the pub/beach/whatever).
Even if you believed that your young age minimizes your risks (that in itself is foolish even if it were true), many still have older parents/relatives in that age group who additionally might also be diabetics, a common condition that increases your risk. I cannot grasp that one wouldn't care about them.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
105. The news coming out of New Jersey is heartbreaking.
Wed Mar 25, 2020, 03:27 PM
Mar 2020


It doesn't look good for any of them. I can't imagine what the families are going through.

greatauntoftriplets

(175,731 posts)
107. I picture my long-gone parents rolling over in their graves.
Wed Mar 25, 2020, 03:50 PM
Mar 2020

They never wanted anything like this to happen to the kids, grandkids, etc. They lived through the Depression and WW II. Also the 1918 Spanish flu, though they were kids.

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