In order to "heal the soul of the nation" President Biden MUST pursue justice against the Trump WH

[Fiendish Thingy]

There must be a thorough investigation, examination, prosecution and punishment of ALL of the crimes of Trump and his entire administration, right down to the ICE agents and contractors who were “just following orders”.

Pelosi and new Senate Majority leader Warren* could resurrect the Independent Counsel law if needed, but Biden must not echo the “look forward” mistakes of the past. The criminals of the Trump administration must be punished to the fullest extent of the law to give pause to anyone contemplating such crimes in the future.

The Biden administration and Dem led Congress can walk and chew gum at the same time, passing legislation to help Americans and undo the damage of the last 4 years, and aggressively bringing the Trump criminals to justice at the same time.



*seniority be damned, Warren is the majority leader America needs and deserves.

[dchill]

1. I sincerely and wholeheartedly wish you good luck with that.

[sfstaxprep]

2. I'm Not Expecting It To Happen

We're going to have to settle for winning in 2020. Justice ain't gonna happen, sad to say.

[msongs]

3. waiting for an announcement that all profiteers and gougers will be held to account. did I

miss it?

[napi21]

4. Most of us DUers agree with you, but the majority of the public doesn't. Nobody wants more than a

year if investigations. The new President is going to have his hands full just trying to get the Country to recover from this virus disaster. Life as we knew it isn't going to return magically because the virus went away. I don't believe DT it capable of doing any more than he was capable of leading the Country through the disaster of the virus.

I hope Joe wins by a landslide, but I really feel for him in facing what this recovery will demand.

[ZZenith]

6. We can spare a court or two, presided over by uncorrupted judges

who can mete out the necessary punishments.

Might be ten years or more before we finally get around to the small fish like Jacob Wohl and Anthony Scaramucci but they’ll all take their turn in the tumbrel eventually.

A severe infection necessitates a thorough cleaning.

[uponit7771]

14. I'd like to see the polling on that after 100,000 people are dead

[The Magistrate]

5. A Reckoning Is Required, Ma'am

Without question.

[duforsure]

7. Without consequences

Next time it will be worse. Nothing was done to W Bush and Cheny, and this was expected from that. Its worse now, a lot worse.

[Peregrine Took]

52. Amen to that. Obama "moved forward" too. Look where that got us. n/t

[SheltieLover]

8. Absolutely essential

If the new admin pardons or lets this opportunity pass them by, I honestly believe a lot of lifelong Dems will never vote again.

Peoole are so disgusted with politics as it is because there is never justice for the working families. I hear that a lot in TN where many don't even bother to register to vote for this reason.
Yes, I do my best to try to convince them to register & vote Blue no matter who but many here just ignore the news and go on about their lives the best they can.

[stopdiggin]

10. disagree. there's good reason for our long standing tradition of not

prosecuting political opponents. That may break down under the lawlessness of the current administration .. but it won't be to our, or the countries, benefit. (IMO)

I have no objection to pursuing Trump for crimes committed while a private citizen (tax evasion, money laundering, fraud, etc.). But policy made during office? Where does that lead?

OK .. I've secured my boilerplate underwear. Fire away, DU!
-- -- --

[uponit7771]

13. no, that's for people who haven't shot anyone on 5th avenue on camera

[JHB]

23. So don't go for Trump, at least not straight off

Go for the support system that props him up.

And there damn well needs to be unimpeded investigations of all the things Trump's people were obstructing.

[EndlessWire]

29. I favor Impeachment No. 2.

It's the only way we can get Trump. And I don't favor the "They go low, we go high" scenario.

We have to get Trump, McConnell, and Barr. We can get McConnell through McGraff. But, we need to impeach Trump and Barr.

Why doesn't this bastard just drop dead?? Why can't we wake up and hear he's on a vent? One that he stole? Serve him right...

[sop]

26. Agreed, "policy" decisions should not be prosecutable, only violations of criminal laws.

Like others, I fear Trump's most egregious crimes will be flushed down the memory hole. It will all be ignored for "the good of the country," so we can "move on" and "look forward, not backwards."

What's destroying this country is corruption, not policy. Government and corporate officials act with complete impunity, knowing full well their fellow officials will look the other way.

[Mike Niendorff]

44. This is not about "prosecuting political opponents"

This is about *prosecuting criminals*.

And *everybody* knows the difference at this point.

Secondly, the suggestion that he can only be prosecuted for crimes committed before or after he took office is batshit insane.

Nobody is above the law. And certainly not one who corrupts public office in the process of committing his crimes.

These defenses are long dead, and literally even not worth debating at this point.

If you don't see why, then just get out of the way and make room for those who do.


MDN

[in2herbs]

59. +1000 nt

[stopdiggin]

60. again, I would have to disagree (at least on some points)

While I certainly agree that criminal behavior is criminal behavior and therefore subject to punishment (no matter the position or station) .. the problem is separating criminal action from bad (sometimes deplorable) policy and orders. And, to my mind, the OP is making no effort to make such a distinction.

prosecution and punishment of ALL of the crimes of Trump and his entire administration, right down to the ICE agents and contractors who were “just following orders”.

If what Trump and his administration has done with the border and immigration is illegal .. fine, then prosecute .. but you are going to have to find a a court that is going to side with that argument. And the notion that we should further prosecute low level agents executing policy .. is simply a non-starter. Hyperbole and political theater.

Gutting the EPA, hollowing out protections and standards for public lands? Certainly deplorable .. but can you establish criminality? If Trump has violated emoluments laws .. then bring that before a judge as well. But, so far .. you've have little success in the judiciary advancing these legal battles .. and I don't see where a new Democratic majority is suddenly going to change that equation.

And that's why I advocate prosecuting Trump for private crimes, rather than executive. Because there's a difference between really, really bad ideas and policy .. and criminal actions. And because the one is a WHOLE lot easier to prove than the other. So, if you want to put your efforts into something that has some chance of working ..

[DFW]

11. Like the trials of 1946

The Nürnberg trials put up the most prominent of the captured Nazis. Many of the ones who were lesser level parts of the regime got off with relatively mild sentences or escaped prosecution altogether.

But most of the big fish were caught and tried and sentenced.

Same with Nixon's gang. The worst were tried and sentenced. Not hung like the worst at Nürnberg, but many of them had their careers destroyed, or were left to be nothing better than propagandists for Fox Noise, which is a kind of exile, thought the worst of them probably never realized that.

The worst of the Trump gang, those who enriched themselves blatantly and hugely at the nation's expense MUST face justice. If robbing a bank of $10,000 is a crime worthy of prosecution, how is robbing the country of tens of millions NOT a crime worthy of prosecution?*

At their 2016 convention, they were screaming, "lock 'em up." In the great spirit of bi-partisanship, I say let's do just that. We might not be locking up the exact people they had in mind, but we'd be following their spirit to the letter.

*I know, I know, "steal $100 and you're a criminal, steal $100 million and you're a hero." But that is an adage, not a law.

[uponit7771]

12. Amen

[Marrah_Goodman]

15. It won't happen

Just like W. walked away scott-free, I expect Trump will also.

[Takket]

16. It might be a moot point...

Drumpf is going to blanket pardon himself and his family on his last day in office so there will never be any accountability at the Federal level. I do believe however that Mueller has worked with the state of NY and drumpf will eventually go to trial there.

That is why he moved his residence to Florida last year, because he knows DeSantis will protect him from extradition.

[JHB]

25. It doesn't need to be Trump himself (at least not right off the bat)

But his dealings, and those of the Republicans, need to be investigated, exposed, and where possible, prosecuted.

[DeminPennswoods]

17. Agree 100 percent

Warren was specific with her proposal to investigate corruption wherever it has happened. This is an idea generally supported by Americans, imho. Taking public money for private purposes happens more often than you might think, but usually it's small embezzlements like a pastor taking church donations or treasurer of the local recreation board dipping into the till. Trump and company are doing the same on a large scale. It's things like Mnuchin and trophy wife scheduling a trip to Ft Knox conveniently on the day of the total solar eclipse at gov't expense. I'm pretty sure Wilbur Ross is helping himself out at the Commerce Dept, too. These people need to be held accountable.

[DEbluedude]

18. We must demand recompence.

Hopefully, with all guilty parties dying penniless in jail.

[kentuck]

19. Hire a good AG and turn her loose!

[shockey80]

20. Yes, there must and will be many investigations. Not by Biden, by congress and the new AG.

It will be the only way to repair the massive damage done by Trump. Many new laws will have to be put in place.

[WheelWalker]

64. All Biden has to do is withhold pardons. A reconstructed Congress and Justice

will have to carry the rock.

[BeckyDem]

21. Yes, yes, yes, yes. K&R

[Vinca]

22. Absolutely. Biden must not go all Jerry Ford on us.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

24. Don't hold your breath.

[gibraltar72]

27. Glenn Kirshner has a plan for that.

If we want to save our democracy we have to demonstrate this shit can't happen without accountability. If we let it slide. As we did with Bush. We just invite a repetition. Expose them prosecute them, punish them like no other ever.

[SKKY]

28. I think the only real way to do this is to let SDNY handle everything...

...it keeps him out of the fray. I would certainly be against intervening on his behalf, for sure.

[Nitram]

30. I agree. We let Nixon off the hook, we let Reagan get away with murder, we let George W. Bush

get away scott free - and what did it get us? It got us Trump. This has got to end, and the only way to end it is to apply the law and enforce it fully to cleanse us of the pestilence that has infected our body politic.

[FiveGoodMen]

31. It would be a first

[bluescribbler]

32. Seniority is not necessary to become Majority Leader.

The Majority Leader is elected my the majority caucus. Many Senators were senior to LBJ when he became Leader. He just needed to convince Richard Russell, who led the Southern Caucus. typically the seniormost senator is elected President Pro Tem.

[Fiendish Thingy]

35. I know, but I've had pushback from other DU'ers that more senior senators are "entitled" to the post

Before Warren can be considered.

[Firestorm49]

33. Ordinarily, I'd agree, but.....

if we are fortunate enough to remove the fool from office, and by some act of god, remove the Republican controlled Senate, the next Democrat president will probably, in the name of “healing the nation”, forgive the idiot of his crimes.

[Fiendish Thingy]

36. If that happens, then it will happen again

Ready for Ivanka in 2024?

[FiveGoodMen]

38. I agree.

That healing business is nonsense.

"We want to leave the tumors in there and just heal."

Yeah, that'll work.

[yellowdogintexas]

34. if the DNC, the Biden campaign, and all Democratic members of Congress

were deluged with letters, emails, postcards, phone calls they would know the true feelings of the folks who support them.

Start writing them right after the Convention ( or whatever you want to call it) is finished.

[oldsoftie]

37. Lets WIN before we start all that talk.

[DENVERPOPS]

66. Exactly, a little bit early, don't you think??????

[oldsoftie]

67. And I just dont get it.

[matt819]

39. Absolutely

From the very top down. Every. Single. One. Whatever it takes. If they have to create a new government agency, then do be it. Ignored subpoenas? Go to jail. Rescind passports. Freeze assets. Whatever they can do, they must do. And don’t stop at those in office at the end. Every former official, senate approved or acting. Repeat after me. Every. Single. One.

[nwliberalkiwi]

40. Investigate and if Need BE Prosecute

Let us remember, directly after Pearl Harbor, there were fourteen ongoing investigations into what happened while we were at war. We certainly can investigated this corrupt bunch of people, and still get on with the business of putting this country on it's feet again.

[Fiendish Thingy]

42. We know the Meuller report contained evidence of Trump's crimes

President Biden can declassify it and send it over to AG Harris for prosecution.

[Ms. Toad]

41. Let's get him elected, first.

Taking his election for granted means we have not learned the lessons from 2016.

[Autumn]

43. i think if he releases the Mueller report in its entirety that will be a big step

in the right direction. And any and all information on Trump's grifting.

[Hotler]

45. We shouldn't have to settle for a minimal win of just removing tRump.

With his removal should be prosecutions out the ying-yang and jail time. No holding back, no more playing nice.

[jmowreader]

82. I also want asset forfeiture

Specifically, I want Trump Tower, Mar-a-Lago, and every one of his golf courses and hotels - without exception - surrendered to the government. I want all Kushner’s properties turned over.

And if we can’t get life sentences for those people, I want them to have to live, without security guards, in “modest 3-bedroom houses” in Massachusetts, where no one likes them.

[Alex4Martinez]

46. Never give in, or give up!

I see replies here that don't seem to even want to aspire to seeing justice served.

Look, if we expect mediocrity, we'll get bullshit; we have to demand better to stay even and we have to demand excellence to get better.

Aiming level or low will be the end of us.

[Hotler]

47. It will never happen, Joe will give him a pass. nt

[sarcasmo]

48. Ever last one of these criminals including Trump's adult offspring.

[tirebiter]

49. Kinda puttin the cart before the horse.

Let’s take the barn, first.

[Fiendish Thingy]

50. Justice IS the barn

Biden is running to “heal the soul of the nation”, and justice for Trump’s crimes is an essential component of that healing. It need not be a centrepiece of his campaign, but he shouldn’t shy away from his commitment to investigate and prosecute either. (A simple acknowledgement of his commitment will suffice for now).

[J_William_Ryan]

51. As already correct noted: it's not going to happen.

No president is going to establish the precedent of subjecting a former president to investigation – lest he himself is subject to an investigation when he leaves office, particularly when he’s succeeded by a president of the opposition party, which is most often the case.

[Fiendish Thingy]

53. Then America is doomed to a lather-rinse-repeat cycle of corruption and destruction

From which it will never recover, even if Biden is elected in a landslide.

If Biden doesn’t bring Trump’s administration to justice, America will continue to crumble.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

54. Yes, but it must NOT be a center-piece of the campaign. . . . nt

[Baked Potato]

55. Yes, however President Biden should hint, but be elusive about it.

Then, after being sworn, hit Trump Inc. like a freight train. He should not campaign too hard on it because there’s no need to show our hand and also Trump will stress the Democrats will only concentrate on “chasing hoaxes” instead of helping Americans. Also, Trump will feel threatened and he will start doing bad things with regard to the DOJ.

Most actions by the Trump administration are seen as despicable travesties by Democrats. These same actions are seen as heroic displays of leadership by Trumpers. So, if Joe Biden just occasionally mentions investigations, I think that would be better strategy going forward. President Biden would need to get a hard charging AG to begin to prioritize investigations and prosecutions starting with releasing the unredacted Mueller Report and the Grand Jury materials.

Candidate Biden could start laying the groundwork and healing the injuries Trump has caused in the FBI and DOJ by mentioning these organizations in a good light in speeches. Biden can say his administration will not perpetuate Trump’s unAmerican rifts and divisive rhetoric.

The roots of Trump’s corruption have grown for years now. It will take years to just clear out the brush enough to get to the roots. There will be endless sprouts coming up which will have to be chased down.

[Fiendish Thingy]

56. I liked how Warren framed it during her campaign

She said something to the effect of “I will not interfere, obstruct or participate in the AG and DOJ carrying out their duties to prosecute crimes to the fullest extent of the law, and that includes any crimes of the president and his administration- no one is above the law”.

[Baked Potato]

57. She's very savvy. Good way of framing it.

The DOJ and FBI have to *want* to get these people to the courtroom.

[samsingh]

58. i agree with you and it will send a powerful warning to future would-be Trumps

[Tiger8]

61. If they jail people for stealing candy from Walmart...

Certainly, Trump & Goons must face penalties several times higher. Don’t know what that is, but I can’t think of anything I’d consider too severe for them.

[Nacht Owl]

62. Absolutely

Otherwise, our constitutional system will henceforth be subject to the whims of any given president. (I'll resume usage of the upper-case P when the current Resident is out of the White House.)

[Marrah_Goodman]

63. Don't expect him to suffer any consequences

He won't. They never do. Remember W. and how we were all waiting to see him pay for all the lies and deaths due to an unnecessary war? Biden will do like Obama did and say we need to look towards the future and forget the past.

[soldierant]

65. I could not possibly agree more.

But it isn't me that you have to convince.

It's Biden. It's the Biden administration - the makeup of which is as yet unknown.

Every time we have decided as a nation to "not be vengeful" and to "move on" has been proved by later history to be a mistake - and, incidentally, to have been MORE divisive than unifying. Starting with Reconstruction. We should have hanged the traitors.

If we as a nation (and we as a party) make that mistake again, we deserve what - not we - but our children and grandchildren will get. Which will not be pretty.

I'm 74. I can - probably - hang in long enough to die with dignity. But there are far too many who cannot.

[Tumbulu]

68. And put a stop to the hate propaganda on AM radio

And fake news shows.

[Dem4Life1102]

69. Warren will not be majority leader

Last edited Sun Apr 12, 2020, 07:04 AM - Edit history (1)

You can stamp your feet and hold your breath as much as you like but it’s not going to happen. That’s just reality. So you need to accept it and get over it now.

[Fiendish Thingy]

70. It will be America's loss, not mine

Can you accept that none of the senators with more seniority than Warren could do a better job as majority leader?

[Dem4Life1102]

71. Who says?

Being Majority Leader isn’t like being President. It is a very different skill set. What qualities does Warren have that is lacking in her colleagues?

[Fiendish Thingy]

72. Courage. Nt

[Dem4Life1102]

73. Irrelevant to being Majority Leader

Try again.

[Fiendish Thingy]

74. Nope. Your turn to make a case that someone besides Warren would be a better majority leader nt

[Dem4Life1102]

75. We already have a good Majority Leader

What qualities does Warren have that would make her a better one?

[Fiendish Thingy]

76. You think Mitch McConnell is better than Warren?!?! Nt

[Dem4Life1102]

77. Actually I was referring to Schumer

So how would Warren be better than Schumer?

[Dem4Life1102]

80. When was Schumer suckered?

As far as the next two, they are actually what is needed for a Leader. People who won’t compromise or protect their members don’t get anything done.

And are you accusing Schumer, and by extension Biden, of planning to nominate and confirm unqualified judges?

[Stuart G]

78. K and R

[Dan]

81. I know that this is politically incorrect, but

I would like a guillotine setup post election.

And for all that are found guilty and enabled this damn near destruction of the nation,
I would like them punished. Let the punishment fit the crime

And if that’s means that the guillotine must run twenty-four hours a day, with every hour on the hour that blade drops (on national TV), so be it. Until justice has been served. The rich and powerful get away with everything, and the poor man catches hell for any little thing - so maybe just maybe the French were right a long time ago. Sometimes Mob rule serves a purpose. And I know that it can get out of hand, but just maybe the rich and powerful need a taste of justice.

[mdbl]

83. This is all I pray for, but Biden probably won't do it

So don't be too disappointed.