If the DSA refuses to endorse Joe Biden for President,

[guillaumeb]

are they implicitly endorsing Donald Trump?

I ask this because I describe myself as a progressive socialist, but I also describe myself as a realist. (Some might disagree on the latter self-description, but please allow me some fantasies.)

And as a progressive socialist, I feel that MFA is the only long term solution to the terrible healthcare system currently in place in the US.

And as a progressive socialist, I feel that much higher marginal tax rates for the rich are essential.

And as a progressive socialist, I feel that one way to start to address income inequality is with laws that allow workers to unionize.

And as a progressive socialist, I feel that businesses like WalMart, and Amazon, are toxic to society. They foster inequality and destroy small businesses.

And as a progressive socialist, I feel that the media has never been liberal. When 6 large corporations own 90% of the media, it is obvious that the US media is anything but liberal.

But all that said, as a realist, I know that the political climate does not exist for all of these things to happen quickly.

So I balance my political theories with some reality. And the reality is, there was only one sane choice in 2016, and there is only one sane choice in 2020.

Do not bother telling me that Biden did not vote for this, or did vote for that. Assume that I am aware of that. But know that no matter the candidate, there will be things about that candidate that many will not like. That is reality. And no amount of political purity can substitute for reality.

That said, I hope everyone is staying safe, and sane. To those who celebrate it, Happy Easter. To the rest, happy Sunday.

Edited to add: The DSA is the Democratic Socialists of America.

[Peacetrain]

1. By DSA do you mean Democratic Socialists of America..

Well if they are implicitly endorsing Trump by not endorsing Biden.. screw them and the horse they rode in on!

[guillaumeb]

2. Yes, I did. And I edited the post.

By not endorsing Biden, they can only be advocating non-participation, or voting for Trump.

Either option is delusional and dangerous.

[Peacetrain]

3. I agree with you 1000% .. it is delusional..

[MyOwnPeace]

4. As I see it.......

you give up ALL rights to profess belief in the creed that you have shared if you do not vote for the Democratic candidate, no matter who it is! Any vote not cast for the opponent of IQ45 is one less chance to throw his ass out of OUR White House!

There is nothing that can be argued there.

Either vote AGAINST IQ45, or SHUT THE F**K UP!

[guillaumeb]

5. I agree.

Non-voting is equally as bad. There is, in my view, no such thing as a principled abstention. Trump is simply a danger to the country.

[MyOwnPeace]

6. "Trump is simply a danger to the country."

And THAT, all by itself, negates ANY reason for NOT voting for whoever is running against him!

[Yonnie3]

7. Of the few DSA people I know

some are tweeting negative things about Biden, but it seems different than 2016. They have said things like "I can't believe I'll have to vote for him." I'm not seeing the boycott or vote third party comments like 2016. Perhaps a realization of what another term for *45 (impeached) would mean for us has settled into their consciousness.

[guillaumeb]

10. That is good to hear.

But it does call into question the ability of the leadership, or whoever made the non-endorsement decision, to recognize reality.

[Yonnie3]

13. My anecdotes are for just a few who claim DSA membership.

From afar it appears to me that the members are very varied in their beliefs and I've seen complaints about the national level leadership, especially after the August events here in Charlottesville.

I'd like to specifically point out that I don't know all that much about this organization. I just have impressions from a small group of them.

[guillaumeb]

16. I appreciate your comments,

and the anecdotal nature of them.

[George II]

14. I've seen quite a few that said they wouldn't vote for Biden under any circumstances....

....I'll try to remember to post one the next time I see it.

But you know what's interesting? Many of those who are bashing Biden now have few followers and have nothing in their profile.

[guillaumeb]

22. Anyone who prefers Trump to Biden is an idiot.

For me, it is that simple.

[George II]

23. +1,000,000

[Bengus81]

36. Good idea...another FOUR years of Trump. So smart!!!

Seriously???

[LakeArenal]

8. I think the missing element here

Is Joe and all Democrats want those exact things as well. But I for one don’t want a revolution to do that. I want the Senate, Congress and President to do it.

Trump needs to go. Because none of it is happening until we are rid of him.

[guillaumeb]

11. Absolutely.

We cannot sacrifice reality to political purity.

[beachbumbob]

9. the organization would need to cease to exist if they DON'T/

[guillaumeb]

12. They are not very large.

While many voters do appreciate some of their positions, my hope is that most voters will appreciate how dangerous Trump truly is.

[George II]

24. DSA has only about 50,000 members.

[guillaumeb]

25. My guess, and hope, is that they are concentrated in very blue states.

But they should realize that Trump and the far right will use this non-endorsement to attack Biden and paint a picture of Democrats in disarray.

[Cha]

15. DSA doesn't care about the Supreme Court, our People Dying, nor the Planet..

Link to tweet

[guillaumeb]

17. Political purity is seen by some as a virtue.

I have my positions, but I also still have some portion of sanity as well.

Do not ask how big that portion of sanity is.

[mercuryblues]

18. This is not the election

to hold purist views. Full stop. If a political group refuses to endorse Biden, by default they are endorsing a Nazi in the white house. The choice is clear. One party will move this country forward and the other will move us back to the Great Depression. Silence is complicit at this stage in the game.

[guillaumeb]

20. Every election is the time to vote intelligently.

I do not see protest votes, or non-voting, as an intelligent choice.

[Hortensis]

19. No to "endorse," but yes to helping reelect him. Not opposing

them by voting for Democrats is EXACTLY what Trump/Repub/Russia are desperately encouraging.

And if desperate isn't quite the right word for the ruthless mega criminals who've taken over Russia, very concerned reportedly is. They know they're in serious trouble if we win. Just to begin, their billionaires won't be visiting their homes in London and New York and will be shopping in glamorous Moscow and vacationing with each other for company Sochi.

[guillaumeb]

21. Yes, this strategy of non-voting can only help Putin.

No matter how DSA members rationalize this decision to not endorse Biden, if they vote for him, and persuade others to vote for him, I can accept that. But f they vote third Party, or refuse to vote, they are a part of the problem.

[Chainfire]

26. What a crazy world

When Socialists, will support a Fascist to foil a Democrat.

Talk about cutting your nose off......

[guillaumeb]

30. That would make an excellent poster, or bumper sticker.

Thank you for the excellent and brief summation of the issue.

[Pillow talk]

27. this is blessing in disguise for biden. a tiny fraction of the electorate that has a

History of mishandling their canidates.

[guillaumeb]

33. Welcome to DU.

It is a small fraction of the electorate. But we must remember that the GOP cheats, and we must work very hard this year.

[Pillow talk]

34. every day. and thanks

[Hav]

28. Maybe it's time to not care about them?

I don't remember caring about them at all in 2016. If they want to continue to be irrelevant and not be part of a coalition, then just let them fade away. If it's the last I hear about them, I'd be fine with that. Those who might view them favorably but want to be a part of the political process know that you have to be pragmatic.

But I've noticed you used the label progressive several times. I've mentioned it previously but that label doesn't belong to them or the BS wing of the party. To me, it looked like many who saw themselves as progressives in previous elections felt themselves boxed in as moderates because a minority redefined it. It's a good sign seeing people reclaiming it, now.

[guillaumeb]

35. I used the term, and I use the term, to describe myself.

But like most labels, the person using it should define what they mean by it. I hope that I was clear.

I feel we should listen to what the DSA member ship has to say, and reach out to them and speak of common values.

[Celerity]

29. The DSA is unfortunately chocked full of actually outright Trotskyites & even revisionist Stalinists

It is a cesspool.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

DSA Communist Caucus: Our Statement

We’re a newly formed DSA caucus. We’ve written this public statement to clarify what we are all about, and what we would like to do. We are currently based out of the East Bay DSA, but we hope to begin organizing with comrades everywhere!

snip

4. We oppose all institutions that block working class power. Engaging in struggle teaches us who these enemies are. Some enemies have already become clear. This includes police departments, the Democratic and Republican Parties, union bureaucrats who betray us to serve the interests of capital, and nonprofit organizations that co-opt and nullify social movements. There are those who, like the Republican Party, obviously oppose us. Others, such as the Democratic Party, hide their opposition behind false acts of goodwill. They publically advocate policies that are said to reduce harm. But their real goal is expressed in their relationship with Goldman Sachs and other capitalist institutions: to manage capitalism more efficiently as an alternative to replacing it. Their paternalistic harm-reduction schemes can never replace, and will often decay, working class power.

snip

Link to tweet

[The Magistrate]

31. Thank You, Ma'am

You are a formidable researcher, you make a great contribution.

[Celerity]

32. many thanks Sir!

[guillaumeb]

37. At home, we called them "les purs et durs".

It means the pure and hard, and can apply to true believers of every fashion. Those who refuse to compromise, and those who see compromise as weakness.

I have engaged in political discussions with Communists in the Chicago area, and while I agree in part with a class based analysis of history, I do not agree with their proposed solutions. No matter their professed beliefs in the working class, and how workers must make the decisions, these true believers often see themselves as the actual guides and leaders of the workers.

Thank you for your additional information.

[The Magistrate]

38. In Effect, Sir, Yes

Not to work actively against someone in a political contest is at the very least a statement you regard with equanimity the success of either candidate. If you are doing this with the intent of subtracting from the strength of one candidate in particular, then certainly you are providing the other candidate some assistance, to the degree you succeed in weakening his opponent,

It is probably fair to say that a good portion of the D.S.A. leadership probably does not see victory for either of the present contenders, Mr. Biden or the cheap thug, as anything to be particularly pleased about. That this represents a lamentable failure of judgement, even a perverse bloody-mindedness, is certainly true, but that would not alter the fact. There are people who are malign, and people who are stupid, and such people are certainly be found on the left end of the political spectrum as well as on the right's end.

It may well be that this year, the leadership of the D.S.A. and similar bodies is considerably to the left of its membership. People who dedicate their lives to rising in and controlling these little splinters are necessarily more dedicated to the ideal view than their rank and file. The rank and file is more likely to have made a practical adjustment to the world around them, with their decisions at the polling booth reflecting it.



"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It is only the others who suffer. It is the same when you are stupid."

[guillaumeb]

39. An excellent response.

And it is true that the more fanatic, or the more convinced, if you will, rise to the top in any organization. In a political organization, winning is the goal, but in an organization that concerns itself with developing political theory, the leaders might ignore actually winning elections in favor of saving what they see as their political purity. Similar to small cult behavior where purity of belief is more important than working with the larger society.