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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums12 Short years ago, Nicole Wallace and Steve Schmidt were working to get McCain/Palin elected....
amazing how times have changed.
dem4decades
(11,270 posts)Like Morning Joe and a slew of others.
SiliconValley_Dem
(1,656 posts)But will immediately revert when the existential threat to our Republic is gone.
Raine
(30,540 posts)When I hear either publicly object to ReTHUGs saying Democrat instead of Democratic I may actually give a shit what they say. When they condemn the Con's use of said word Democrat, get back to me.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,615 posts)Saul on the road to Damascus and all that. I'm happy to accept sincere converts.
OAITW r.2.0
(24,322 posts)I know more than a few people who used to be solid Republicans back in the 70s/80s....lots of them are flaming liberals today.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)They were both aware and independent minded enough not to join the crowd being manipulated increasingly hard core to support what the Republican leadership has become, although Joe's said he went too far and had an awakening about that. Back then was already too far.
But they're both living proof that it's possible to be conservative and sensible and responsible, even with definite ideological differences. There a lot like them out there who used to unite with sensible people on the left to protect the nation from extremism on both sides. When we allowed ourselves to be divided, the center broke and the barbarians swept in.
malaise
(268,724 posts)They campaigned for bomb bomb bomb Iran McCain as if millions of fellow human beings are America's playthings to kill just like the Iraqis.
Sorry.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Last edited Fri Apr 17, 2020, 06:54 AM - Edit history (1)
and liberals chose to believe the lies and supported it.
There is, however, a huge difference here between the evils enabled by people like them, who supported the second Iraq war because for inadequate reasons, and hard right conservatives who would have supported occupying, massacring, enslaving and "we should have taken the oil" if that's what their leaders decided.
We must recognize the very large differences among conservatives and reunite with those we can work with to stop the barbarians or we will look back on even today with longing.
Moderate conservatives are more like liberals in being able to create stable societies that don't murder each other and even and advance to be better. Our "normal" is sadly not always right or good and can be lead astray, but it can be usually right and good with good leadership. And normal tends to want good leaders. Look at the 2018 midterms choice for "normal" as a rejection of bad. Scar and Wallace also admit Iraq was wrong now, a very important trait.
The second group, though, those Scar and Wallace are NOT like: Hard-core conservatives always have someone they won't get along with and usually look for bad leaders to do something about it. They're unhappy with the leadership moderate conservatives choose on their own, who agree way too much with leaders chosen by liberals. To this day many hard-righters insist that we were fully justified in invading and murdering and that we should have left Iraq ruined so it can never threaten us again. Yeah, Iraq threatened us and we had to protect ourselves. Most believe anyone they don't like is a threat that must be taken out before it gets them. As you can imagine, that little problem's been studied and proven again and again. They see peace treaties as very weak and potentially devastating mistakes. They're not the definitive kill they want.
Get the huge, huge difference? The world can live and does advance when imperfect normal people like these two and us dominate. But when we are divided, like now, we don't dominate and really, really bad things start happening.
Btw, just so you know where I'm coming from on Iraq, I supported the first Iraq war to put Iraq back in its borders and stop the genocide within Iraq, barring its military from 2/3 of Iraq's hinterlands using aerial surveillance to keep genocide stopped for the next decade. As wars go, it was a model. A decade later I supported giving the president the power to stop Hussein from breaking the controls we'd imposed because it was necessary to avoid yet another war and resumption of genocide, but instead it was misused to start a new war and go for the more definitive kill. And the oil. I was completely opposed to the dreadful, tragic second from the very beginning. Not so different from where Scar and Wallace are now, and no excuses for them that they weren't always there, but they had a lot of company in the majority of the electorate, including too many Democrats, who supported invasion of Iraq. I'm sure that includes a bunch who deny now because the support was actually quite strong at the time.
JI7
(89,241 posts)so it was even before Trump .
elleng
(130,768 posts)it's what we do, we LEARN. Good for them.
oasis
(49,338 posts)It's a sign of superior intelligence, when you can discard old constructs and embrace new ones. Whatta future.
calguy
(5,295 posts)When the party became irresponsible and lost their sanity, they left the party along with many other responsible republicans. They will help us defeat trump in the fall. As Steve Schmitt has said before, trump will be defeated by a coalition of the decent.
OAITW r.2.0
(24,322 posts)and anti-current Republican Party. Not sure how you build an opposition Party against the sane, rational majority. Stay tuned.
Funtatlaguy
(10,863 posts)Hav
(5,969 posts)Some realize what a danger Trump is and already saw that in 2016. That is better than what could be said about many others.
The likes of Schmidt and Frum were also critical of the Gop years before Trump.
benld74
(9,901 posts)nycbos
(6,034 posts)Steve Schmidt clearly regretted Palin.
crickets
(25,952 posts)JI7
(89,241 posts)Sgent
(5,857 posts)my entire family was moderate republicans (socially liberal, fiscally moderate). Since 2005 every single one (Aunts, Uncles, siblings, and me) have become reliable Democratic voters.
This is not a new as the R party has descended into right wing authoritarianism with a dash of theocracy.
Jake Stern
(3,145 posts)They had no beef with Reagan, Bush I or Dubya when they nurtured and fed the beast and only did a 180 when the beast got a bit too big for them.
I know several of these reformed Republicans and they still support the neo-con agenda like tax cuts for the rich, privatizing Social Security, and eliminating welfare programs. They still think invading Iraq was the right thing to do and believe we should have put more boots on the ground in Syria.
They might have been slightly put off by Kooky Kavanaugh but they didnt seem to object when even harder right but morally cleaner Gorsuch landed on the court.
Publicly they oppose Trump but behind closed doors their real gripe is that Trump is ruining the GOP brand and pine away for a more reasonable Republican like Dubya to carry the partys banner.
dem4decades
(11,270 posts)Then she showed how nuts she was and he stopped but he already was going full Republican again.
OAITW r.2.0
(24,322 posts)media ticket punched. I am OK with that. He gets the political threat of Donald Trump.
TomSlick
(11,092 posts)Trump is such an abomination that even convinced Republicans - at least those with two brain cells to rub together - know that he has to go. If these Republicans vote for Biden only to return to the GOP after the election, they will have been right once in their lives.
I will accept support and votes from anyone; Democrats, Republicans, Independents, Greens, Socialists, Libertarians, Know-Nothings, Whigs; I don't care. Trump is an existential threat to the Republic. I don't care who you are, for whom you have voted in the past, or for whom you will vote after 2020. For the love of the country, support and vote for Biden.
Saboburns
(2,807 posts)William Kristol, David Frum, even George Will. Rick Wilson.
I have some admiration for the Republicans who have spent the past 4 years eviscerating Republican Donald Trump.They have earned my admieation.
I want to tell you that it is OK give them props. It is OK lisyen and like their voices. I'm an old campaigner, I go back to the early 80's, I have't forgotten who they were. I haven't forgotten the things they said. Nor do I know where they'll go after Trump. I will adjust my attitude accordingly.
This topic comes up quite regularly here. I want to tell you that today, today, it's ok like whay they're saying. It's OK to like and reTweet them.
And as for me I'm glad to have them.
JI7
(89,241 posts)change. Steve Schmidt said just after the 2008 elections that Republicans should support same sex marriage so it was even before Trump.
JI7
(89,241 posts)Hamlette
(15,408 posts)my dad voted for Goldwater but Reagan drove him nuts. He switched and got more and more liberal as the years went by. When he died, he was a godless commie pinko. Like me.
Sewa
(1,252 posts)After the second time I heard her say we would never do that in the Bush White House in response to a Trump lie. I stopped watching her.
liberaltrucker
(9,129 posts)Add Rick Wilson to the list. We can resume those fights
when this nightmare is over. Stalin in WW II, for example.