Just thinking out loud -How did we go from Harvard/Princeton educated

[tulipsandroses]

Last edited Sat Apr 25, 2020, 06:06 PM - Edit history (1)

president and First Lady to a president that muses about injecting disinfectant and First Lady that posed nude?

How did we get here? How did we reject education in lieu of crack pot theories?

Before we got to the point of the American president becoming a laughing stock of the world by suggesting people may be able to inject disinfectant - education and science somehow - became a dirty bad thing. How? To the point where our elected officials parrot the most insane conspiracy theories. Conspiracy theories have always been around, but for the most part - many people laughed at them. Now they have been elevated to a point of "serious discussion" by some.

What happened? I remember in the early days of the internet when Alex Jones was just some weirdo with a weirdo following. If you had told me 15-20 years ago that he would "rise to prominence", I would have said you hit your head.
Who? The guy with the crazy website going on about chemtrails? Him?
How did so many people come to trust him over education and scientific driven data?

How did Sen Kennedy - after attending the most prestigious universities in the world from Vanderbilt to Oxford. Does it get more elite than Oxford? then turn around to the people at a Trump Rally to tell them he was one of them and rant about about goat milk latte drinking avocado toast eating "elite"?

I was always told by my parents, reading was important, education was important - even though I came from a religious family with their own nutty beliefs, but they always pushed education. My parents pushed for me to go to the library on Saturdays when I was a young girl, even when I did not want to and preferred staying home to watch Saturday morning cartoons. Of course - back then we did not have a thousand distractions of the internet, video games etc. Reading was always a thing in my house.

I remember, back then, and maybe it was where I grew up, you grew up in a home with limited income - whether you were black or white - education and knowledge was pushed.
Now believing in science, data, facts, expertise is an elite thing?
When did this happen?
How did we get to a place where Anthony Fauci can be dismissed and people prefer to get facts from the likes of Limbaugh and other talk radio.?

Some guy on a talk radio show asked the host if we could get chemicals in our lungs with a vape pen to cure covid 19, the host told him he was thinking out of the box.

This is a headline from an article on the Atlantic last year

Republicans Changed Their Mind About Higher Education Really Quickly
A majority of them no longer think campuses are setting the country on the right course. What happened?

Back in the day, when we did not have the internet, we had the encyclopedia - lol - I remember my dad having a payment plan for the encyclopedia. OK, I am rambling, so I will end here. But my point is, back then when you wanted to know something - you looked to people and resources that had knowledge about the thing you wanted to know about. College was higher education - to me meant it elevated your ability to think critically, educate yourself - not just for a career - but made you a more well rounded person- with the ability to dissect and think through problems.

By the way - this thread is not a promotion that says everyone needs to go to college. The contrary, my dad was a blue collar worker - and financially - my parents will probably be better off financially than I will ever be.

And I am quite aware that even formally educated people have bought into nonsense- I am just a loss sometimes as to how we got here - People believing the most insane things - no ability to critically think through these things to realize its stupidity.

Just wondering out loud.

[Lock him up.]

1. How did we go from the peaceful Woodstock to the violent WWE? n/t

[jberryhill]

2. A dictionary might help that enclycopedia

I’ve been selling Wikipedia door to door. It’s tough work.

[ProfessorGAC]

10. Good Luck With That!

I'm rooting for you!

[c-rational]

3. Good post - how did we get here---SLOWLY, through repetition, repetition, repetition. I also

remember going to the libraries on weekends as a child and the Encyclopedia Britannica my parents purchased. And I recall that being taught that the purpose of a college education and specifically a a liberal arts degree was simply meant to make you a better person. How far we have fallen. Again, as I posted elsewhere about how we got here, Hillary's words of "it's a vast right wing conspiracy" keep ringing in my ears.

[stillcool]

4. the GOP, since the 80's..

What a cast of characters, getting wackier as the years go by. All their dreams are coming true.

[cyclonefence]

5. A president with a GED from West Bumfuck IA

would be smarter than this orange lump.

[Sneederbunk]

6. What's the matter with Wharton?

[leftieNanner]

24. He didn't go to Wharton

Which is the formal name for the graduate program at Penn. He got an undergrad degree in Economics from Penn. I believe that some of his classes were taught by some Wharton professors. Plus, back then it wasn't as difficult to get in to Penn as it is now. One of his professors said he was the dumbest student he had ever met.

[DavidDvorkin]

7. This book explains it

https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Intellectualism-American-Life-Richard-Hofstadter/dp/0394703170

[BComplex]

8. How did we get here? Fox "news". Fox "news". Fox "news". Fox "news". and Rush Limbaugh/hate radio

Drumming the same National Enquirer nonsense, day after day, hour after hour, 24/7, for 30 years. The notion that higher education was bad came from the Powell Manifesto, when (who would later become) Supreme Court Justice Powell, and the national Chamber of Commerce, and Adolph Coors decided that if colleges (and churches, btw) wanted any money from business, then the rightwing would get to decide which professors got tenure, and who was even hired.

Throw into the mix Ayn Rand's very popular sociopathic screeds, that appealed to any latent sociopathic tendencies (always inherent in republicans by nature), and you have the perfect storm toward what we are looking in the (uncovered) face today.

[sop]

12. Rupert Murdoch has done more damage to our democracy than all the world's terrorists combined.

[BComplex]

20. He most certainly has. Not just our democracy, but he has peddled his brand of naziism all over the

world, and it takes hold in many a deranged mind.

[crickets]

31. All too true. nt

[malaise]

36. THIS

[treestar]

37. Limbaugh was first and he made it ok

to feel like a victim being called a racist rather than being ashamed of being racist. Also sexist. Made it OK to feel like you really know something from his sanctimonious sermons and aren't stupid.

[NRaleighLiberal]

9. money and propaganda. in either order.

[Baltimike]

11. R-U-S-S-I-A. NT

[JHB]

26. Russia just cloned the set of controls Movement Conservatives spent...

...the last 50 years building.

[stopdiggin]

28. nope. respectfully. we done this all

to ourselves. U.S. citizens, with all the advantages in the world, CHOSE to latch on to shit for brains, anti-science, anti-intellectual crap .. and then we went out and found politicians that would make us feel good about being spoiled, selfish and lazy assh*les.

[OldBaldy1701E]

47. Bingo! (n/t)

[Baltimike]

54. Respectfully as well...*NOPE*

even the kGOPb lead US Senate report said so.

What you've described is (part of) their antics, but they CERTAINLY installed him

[stopdiggin]

58. if your focus is exclusively on the 2016 election

the OP (and much of the discussion following) was not. Much more extensive in scope. And covering many more years of dumbing down the body politic, and political discourse.
-- -- --
Within that context, I'll stand by my original comment.

[Baltimike]

60. YAAAAAAWN....my answer is still spont on, but I appreciate

your attempt to marginalize it.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

13. Porn hugely popular among evangelicals. They love Greed Over People. Suckers for abortion issue. nt

[alp227]

14. Let's not equate posing nude with promoting pseudoscience

You have a good point, but it could've been stronger without the reference to the modeling.

[CaptYossarian]

19. At least the reich wing studies anatomy.

They do believe in one science anyway.

And quite a few of their politicians and preachers study horticulture. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't lead a horticulture."

[July]

57. But let's not forget that the nude modeling apparently qualifies Mel for an "Einstein" visa.

And she’s the poster child for the “chain migration” her husband hates.

And she’s a birther and plagiarist who claimed to have a degree she never earned.

[catbyte]

15. Two words: sexism & racism

[AllaN01Bear]

16. lies . more lies and constant lies from the rw for 30 + years. lies and the lying liars contd .

24 /7 news from faux noize and rw talk radio have polluted their brains to the point where they dont care .

[iluvtennis]

17. Thanks for your post. As you said, exercising "critical thinking" is key. No higher education is

required for that - just having common sense and wanting to educate on something by researching things and forming your own opinion.

[malaise]

18. Two words - Color Prejudice

The view that as long as I'm white, my ignorance is superior to any non-white's knowledge.

[iluvtennis]

21. +++ agree. When the poor whites and blacks banded together during reconstruction to

fight for rights et al...the "divide and conquer" was implemented for the poor. And the rest is history in this country.

[malaise]

23. +1,000

Divide and conquer/rule has been very successful across the planet - not just in the US

[iluvtennis]

39. Indeed. nt

[crickets]

32. The Southern Strategy writ large. nt

[iluvtennis]

40. Exactly. nt

[malaise]

41. More like British colonialism

[aggiesal]

22. Reagan! n/t

[ramapo]

25. Reagan definitely put the wheels in motion

N/t

[treestar]

38. Yep. Carter wanted to face facts

and Reagan replaced that will feel-good bullshit. People fell for the latter. Now it's gotten to a point where they can't even deal in reality.

[malaise]

43. Didn't Nancy Reagan promote the stupid psychics

and other BS mumbo jumbo?

[treestar]

45. Yes, astrology I think

it was.

The 80s was the me decade of all time - all about self affirmation. While that might help personally with self esteen, it cannot alter reality.

[aggiesal]

55. Reagan went behind Carter's back and negotiated with the Iranians ...

during the Hostage crisis.

Reagan told them to hold them until the election and release after he wins.
Of course they were released on inauguration day.

I remember telling a friend that I was pi$$ed that Reagan had won in
New Mexico, and that in 30 years we won't have a middle class.

Look where we are now, 40 years later.

[Yavin4]

27. Because we developed an educational system that serves only the cognitive elite and no one else.

Last edited Sat Apr 25, 2020, 02:20 PM - Edit history (1)

For example, public schools are funded by local property taxes which means that wealthier districts get the better teachers and other resources.

We use tests to separate out the cognitive elite from everyone else. The education of the remainder is just shuffled along or forgotten.

In the end, we're left with a sizeable segment of the American public that has little to no respect for education or critical thinking.

[ancianita]

35. +1

[iluvtennis]

44. My roots are working class. My parents are high school graduates. Two of us kids have college

degress. My other 4 siblings are high school graduates.

We are all critical thinkers because our parents were and we learned the behavior from them.

Sorry I give no one a pass on being able to exercise critical thinking.

[Yavin4]

48. That's you and your family.

You may not represent the population whose scores weren't high enough on some test to receive better educational opportunities.

[OldBaldy1701E]

49. Yes, and

I won't deny what you say, but I also feel it was adhering to an educational model that is pretty much memorization/recitation. If you have a good recalling memory, you will always get good grades even if you have no earthly idea how to use the information you were given. (Critical thinking is so last century dude). Somewhere along the line, we stopped trying to teach people how to learn and started this propaganda train that rewards those who are mouthpieces of the establishment and denies those who actually exhibit reasons and intelligence because those are known to be too non-conformist for the powers that be.

[Yavin4]

50. We have advanced students that can score high on standardized tests.

We have rewarded students who excel at being students. I've taken classes where people complained about not having a grade level of "A+". Why? Because a simple "A" lowers their overall GPA.

For today's students, education is a video game where you are trying to get the highest scores.

[DarleenMB]

29. We had the temerity

to elect a black man as President. That was merely icing on the cake. "They" were still reeling from legal abortions, gays being (finally) given equal rights, and the topper? Having the GALL to run Hillary Clinton (double whammy -- woman AND Bill's wife) for President.

It's called backlash. Only now it feels more like whiplash.

[Turbineguy]

30. In my opinion

the Tea Party was born in the Lubyanka Building during the Brezhnev administration. It's been a long journey. And the Russians play the long game. From their experience in Great Britain they learned that conservatives were more open to their message. Khrushchev said, "We will bury you", and that's what they are working on. They really deserve credit for their accomplishment. The longest and most successful intelligence operation in all of history. Not quite the finesse of breaking Enigma, but a big program that needed lots of participants in the target countries.

I am hopeful however that they overplayed their cards in putting a buffoon like trump on the throne. There are a lot of other republican traitors that we need rid of too.

[orleans]

33. republicans for 500 n/t

[ancianita]

34. The "we" you use doesn't include the cheaters who dragged "we" into this.

The cheaters are the anti-Americans amerikkkans. Bought and paid for to this day -- from billionaires to hate groups to our churchy neighbors -- and ready to do it again.

[marieo1]

42. A good post

A sad day for all of us. I have never been so disheartened in all my life - how did this mess happen?

[Caliman73]

46. There has always been a struggle in this county, with anti-intellectualism.

Partly because education was seen as the purview of the elite and was literally prohibited to most non-White people, incredibly difficult to attain for women (at least at the highest levels), and for people who were not rich.

Education, especially the "liberal" education that was promoted during the Enlightenment period sought to base knowledge and information on empiricism rather than relying on tradition and religion. This challenged the power structure of the time, though again, the Enlightenment still kept knowledge in the hands of the richer people who had the time to study and experiment.

The struggle in the United States began when education became compulsory and states began to support even higher education that was available to a broader swath of people.

In the 1920's with the Scopes Trial, there was a backlash against the teaching of Evolution as established science because it challenged the idea of creationism which took Humans out of their "special" placed given by god.

The more educated a population is, the more they will question the power structure. The GOP and especially with Trump, has been a practice in attacking the very notion of expertise, or knowledge, and of truth (in the form of evidence and facts). Trump lies because he is pathological, but also because lying makes other people have to argue the facts and if you have to argue the facts against the lie constantly, then it merely becomes an argument that can be won not with facts but by force of will, by the power dynamic, or simply by persuasion.

[crickets]

52. Well said. nt

[Upthevibe]

51. Great post....I'll be coming back to it. Thank you...n/t

[Hermit-The-Prog]

53. Republicans.

[Amaryllis]

56. THose people have always been there but our elections have become more and more

compromised since 2000. ANd we got cable TV, Faux in particular. When i was growing up we had the three network and PBS.

[Captain_New_York]

59. Minor correction

As a Columbia grad I need to point out that President Obama is a Columbia undergrad. BTW as a Fordham Business married to a Fordham Law ( Gov Cuomo is Fordham undergrad and his brother Chris is a Fordham Law) we are very grateful that the orange shitler never mentioned that he attended Fordham for 2 years before his father brought his way into Penn