If armed people storm a state Capitol building,

[MineralMan]

they should be ordered to put their arms down. If they refuse, they should be shot and killed. That is terrorism and insurrection.

Enough of this appeasement of armed terrorists!

I refer, of course, to the armed invasion of the Michigan Capitol.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Absolutely right. n/t

[jimfields33]

15. We are not for state murder.

[marble falls]

22. For once I agree with you.

[jimfields33]

66. Yeah! Very glad.

[sarisataka]

44. Apparently

There is not agreement on that position

[Glamrock]

58. It's not State murder.

It’s putting down an armed insurrection. Period.

[ripcord]

130. Ignorant statement

Michigan has open carry, there are no laws preventing people from carrying guns in the capitol and finally there is this

Hundreds of demonstrators, a few of them armed, gathered in Lansing and many did not wear masks or socially distance.
Police checked their temperatures before some were allowed into the capitol, where lawmakers were debating.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52496514

[Glamrock]

136. You are absolutely right

That was an ignorant statement. It’s not as if we haven’t seen these toy soldiers time and again showing up armed to the teeth in order to threaten and menace anyone who disagrees. We certainly haven’t seen these “patriots” drawing down on Federal agents doing their jobs. There hasn’t been any of these people physically attacking journalists. Yeah, you’ve proved me wrong. My most sincere apologies.

[ripcord]

141. Don't let anything including the facts get in the way of your personal outrage?

These people were not only not breaking the law but were allowed into the capitol by the state police, calling out the national guard to deal with them would be illegal but I'm sure that will have no influence on you.

[Glamrock]

165. You are absolutely correct.

I’ve watched these gun assholes using their so called second amendment for nothing more than intimidation for too fucking long. You may be cool with them trying to intimidate our elected officials. I’m just fucking not. It may very well be legal, but the game they’re playing “within the law” ain’t fucking cool man. And i’ll go so far as to say that if you are showing up at a fucking protest armed to the nines for something that has nothing to do with guns or gun control, all i’m able to see is someone using their second amendment to threaten those they disagree with. And as far as i’m concerned when it’s our elected officials it’s insurrection.

[George II]

62. If you see what he said, they should be ordered to put down their weapons, if not....

....THEN they should be shot.

Why should elected officials and state police be threatened with violence? They're there with loaded weapons.

[ancianita]

79. Murder's defined by who draws first and intent. In this case, the state uses defensive force.

Lawyers could argue that the postures and volume of this armed protest constituted assault of an elected public official.

[George II]

94. I can see all sorts of charges - terrorism, kidnapping (people held at gunpoint), harassment, etc.

[ancianita]

95. Absolutely. There's probably enough video footage of it all to support any of those charges.

This MI governor should not appear to be an appeaser.

Rule of law should make an example of white male mob behavior.

[oldsoftie]

151. As a poster already pointed out, they are not breaking any laws doing what they're doing.

I wasnt aware of their laws regarding that or how it went down until today. The majority werent armed at all. But of course the photogs are only going to show those that ARE.

[SQUEE]

155. Many of the images floating around are from other locations and other times as well.

[George II]

156. There is a standing Executive Order in Michigan prohibiting gatherings of more than several people..

"....all public and private gatherings of any number of people occurring among persons not part of a single household are prohibited."

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309,7-387-90499_90705-525182--,00.html

I doubt these people are all from a single household:

Link to tweet

[Volaris]

103. I agree. The first step should be to tell them they're under arrest..

...and if they resist, well...


...cops beat people all the time for 'resisting arrest', and if some of them happen to die, its oh well.

Either ALL Lives Matter, or NONE of them do. The white nationalist nazi terrorists get to make the choice here, dont they?

[Newest Reality]

2. Do you think...

Do you think there is a bigger picture here? Would treating them as they should, (as you suggest) possibly have far-reaching implications with those types? Or are there political implications?

Is there an attempt to avoid confrontation? If so, the ramifications are a concern.


I wonder about that.

[MineralMan]

6. Fuck them. Enough.

If you bring arms to threaten elected officials, you will either surrender them and be arrested or you will die. Enough of coddling those cowards!

[marble falls]

25. Now that I can get behind whole heartedly. Disarm them and enter them onto the "no guns' list.

[smirkymonkey]

38. I agree.

Do you think that if they were black and hispanic they would be tolerated?

[Rebl2]

74. They should be arrested

If the terrorists threaten to shoot the police or anyone, they should be arrested or if they shoot, then police should take appropriate actions.

[SQUEE]

105. As a person that will be doing that murder FOR you...

I will not obey that un-lawful order.

They have a legal right to be there, and to be there armed. If the state changes the law, and only then will I enforce compliance.

[dware]

110. Thank you. nt

[moriah]

177. Gonna be kinda dangerous to try to pass such a law with rifles in the gallery.

And no law in Michigan says they have the right to open carry, or the right to carry weapons into the gallery.

It's an absence of either activity being codified as "illegal" that allows it. Yet there IS a law that says they cannot bring protest signs in the building.

-----

FWIW, I understand why police aren't inclined to use the same laws they use against other protesters (caravanning/blocking traffic without a permit, disturbing the peace, disorderly conduct, even jaywalking if you get off the sidewalk into a street) to arrest a large number of people right now. It really is a dangerous thing, for everyone in jail, to bring new people in unnecessarily (and protests that end with arests often necessitate crowded holding conditions compared to normal).

We should draw some lines, however, before a legislator gets shot from the gallery. Lawmakers are wearing bulletproof vests, but that's not a guarantee against a headshot.

I fail to see how the protesters pictured who were in the faces of police officers screaming and trying to get past them and onto the actual legislative floor (vs the viewing gallery) were not breaking at least one law.

[Flaleftist]

23. Will letting them get away with that behavior encourage more of it?

And maybe next time the behavior of these terrorists gets worse.

[Jake Stern]

55. Look what avoiding confrontation got us with the Bundy assholes

Walking away from them which just empowered them enough to stage the Malheur refuge invasion and occupation.

[ehrnst]

64. The fact that they are there protecting the Governor makes the police "fascist" in the eyes of

fringe.

[old guy]

3. In a word: Yup.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. It is legal in MI to open-carry a weapon in the Capitol, which is nuts

in the first place. How can that be OK?

[MineralMan]

10. Not if you are threatening anyone, it's not.

Screw those assholes. It is time to make an end to such nonsense.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

11. If those people had been black it would have been a whole different story.

[MineralMan]

13. Black people are too smart to do such things.

It's time for an instructive demonstration that such shit will not be tolerated.

[former9thward]

43. Well, not really....

Armed Black Panthers in the Capitol, 50 years on


It’s largely forgotten now, but 50 years ago, it created a national sensation. It even caused the National Rifle Association and Ronald Reagan to back a gun-control bill authored by a Republican.

Tuesday is the 50th anniversary of the May 2, 1967 “invasion” of the state Capitol by two dozen gun-toting Black Panthers. Carrying rifles, pistols and shotguns, and wearing dark glasses, leather jackets and berets, they marched up the front steps and into the Capitol to demonstrate their opposition to an anti-gun bill by Oakland Republican Don Mulford (1915-2000).



https://capitolweekly.net/black-panthers-armed-capitol/

[Haggis for Breakfast]

50. Really ? You're using events from 60 plus years ago,

when Black Americans literally had nothing left to lose ? Their rights were being trampled on. They were being totally disenfranchised at the voting booth. Their children weren't allowed to attend colleges across the south. They were being targeted by the KKK, white supremacists, and southern governors. They had crosses being burned in their yards. Their churches were being bombed. Police dogs and water canon were set on them every time they tried to assemble.

And you're going to compare that to now ?????????????????????????

[former9thward]

52. Maybe you should have read the posts.

There was the implication black people would have been shot down if they showed up at a capitol with arms. I showed an example where they did and they were not shot down.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

54. I commented on YOUR post.

[rockfordfile]

99. Actually considering how bad it's today yes they would have been

[AtheistCrusader]

145. Poster is using the comparison that this is a legal form of free expression.

I don't think any of us disagree that these recent protests are horseshit, but the mechanism they are using is legal, with a long historical precedent.

[RestoreAmerica2020]

53. Thanks. For post and link. Reading now.

[MH1]

132. (many) White people are threatened by black people just existing anywhere near them.

As a white person myself, I find it highly bizarre. Really annoying, too. But as a white person I can only guess at how it feels to be the black person in this situation.

[Brother Buzz]

30. It was legal in California, too, until this event happened

They enacted a law against it faster then you can spit, and Governor Reagan rode the bandwagon all the way to the White House.

[Wounded Bear]

39. And the NRA rode shotgun on passing "gun control" laws...nt

[Brother Buzz]

89. Curious how that worked back then

The NRA hadn't been radicalized yet. The wacko gun rights radicals didn't usurp the NRA for another decade.

[AtheistCrusader]

147. This is part of the reason that lots of gun owners can't stand the NRA.

When push came to shove, racism won.

They should have stood by the Black Panthers, and fought Regan's weapons ban.

[llashram]

5. yep

this is getting uglier and uglier.

[Maven]

7. This is a show of paramilitary force against the government

It should not be tolerated in a civilized country. Enough.

[Brainfodder]

143. Since when do Americans follow the rules if (R)?

When do (D) start calling them the fuck out for it, every damn day?

[HeartachesNhangovers]

8. Here's a story about the armed Black Panthers invading the California

state capitol back in 1967. Should they have been disarmed, and shot if they refused?

https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/history/article148667224.html

In fact, they weren't disarmed or shot, but left on their own.

[MineralMan]

14. So?

That was over 50 years ago.

[Vinnie From Indy]

16. I hate bloothirsty exhortations from Internet tough guys.

Who would you have had fire the first shot tough guy?

[MineralMan]

19. The job of the State Police is to protect

State officials. WTF? Screw the armed terrorists. Try coming into my house armed without permission.

How's that, Vinnie?

[Vinnie From Indy]

27. Should the state police have opened fire first?

[MineralMan]

34. Did you read my post?

They should have been ordered to put down their arms. Reading is FUNdamental. I don't have any idea who you are. You apparently know even less about me.

[LanternWaste]

24. Not surprised you trivialize it...

and pretend it's not a relevant. Allowing it as a valid piece of the conversation would deny any self-righteousness we hold so dear.

[MineralMan]

37. ..

[HeartachesNhangovers]

40. So it's a good thing that cooler heads than yours prevailed that day.

Or else the day might have ended in bloodshed.

[AtheistCrusader]

146. So?

What the fuck does the year have to do with it?

It is either legal, or not. You know better than this, MM.

[marble falls]

26. AND they threatened no one, at a time cops were shooting them in their beds & unarmed on the street.

[Alacritous Crier]

28. Correct!

That's the difference. This mob is unacceptable.

[Politicub]

61. Of all of the times to engage in whataboutism...

The circumstances of this insurrection are nothing like what the Black Panthers did.

[AtheistCrusader]

149. Their causes are different. And I would argue, the Black Panthers comported themselves much

more professionally and honorably. Reagan/State responded by banning the mechanism.

The mechanism they are using is the same, and it is legal in that state. This is the part where our free speech/expression should be weighed against theirs, and see which position holds water. The answer to obnoxious free expression, is better speech/expression.

[Jake Stern]

63. No comparison

Black Panthers were carrying weapons to demonstrate they were willing to stand up for themselves against a government that treated Blacks like third class citizens.

White Wingers are assholes who are mad because mean ol' Gretchen won't let them get a haircut, get a tattoo or buy shit in the garden center in order slow the spread of a virus that has killed more Americans than the Vietnam War.

[58Sunliner]

135. I know, those armed white terrorist snowflakes have a history of being murdered, right?

Oh no they don't. They kill based on race, sex, homophobia, etc.... They are mass murderers.

[friendly_iconoclast]

178. "They are mass murderers." Who did they kill, and which protester(s) killed them?

[58Sunliner]

179. The gun culture has spawned many killers.

[friendly_iconoclast]

182. Nice deflection!

[58Sunliner]

184. They don't have to be mass murderers.

The culture that they promote, the posturing and the insistence on arming with weapons of mass destruction intended to intimidate, do promulgate mass shootings. It would be easy to say not those, but they are part of a culture that ostensibly promotes the solution to conflict is a gun. A gun that is not designed for any other purpose but to kill in high capacity.

[friendly_iconoclast]

183. To your knowledge, which ones at the demonstration were killers?

[rickford66]

9. If armed people in a red state stormed in demanding everyone shelter in place ......

Since they'd be masked, I'm sure they'd get arrested or shot.

[Sugarcoated]

102. It happened in the Kentucky State House last month

As far as I know none got shot.

[Blue_true]

12. Believe me, if they were Black, they would be instantly shot dead by cops

racing in from all over. The clowns in Michigan actually screamed in the faces of State Troopers and still got to walk away.

[AllaN01Bear]

17. yeppers

[Paladin]

18. Agree with you 100%.

If we don't stop it now, the whole country is going to be ablaze. We've got enough problems without another civil war starting up.

And trump isn't going to be of any help.

[panader0]

20. I'd settle for tased and incarcerated.

It was an ugly spectacle. I can't understand how self styled tough guys
have to carry AR-15's.

[Caliman73]

21. But Mineral Man...they weren't doing anything wrong.

It isn't as if they were Black or anything. No need for alarm.

[dalton99a]

33. +1

[Mr. Ected]

29. Not taking action will only embolden the next group of disgrunted white men

Next time, though, lives could be lost.

Trump has dogwhistled for so long, it's no wonder the hounds have picked up the scent.

To them, Trump + 2nd Amendment = Kill liberals who stand in the path of fascism.

This won't get any better. The economy is stalling and Trump's mishandling of the pandemic is going to kill him at the polls in November. If you can''t win fair and square (and with Putin's help), win by force.

These animals will need to be dealt with appropriately.

[Ferrets are Cool]

31. Absolutely. Anything less is Un-American.

[bluestarone]

32. Gotta wonder why

The congress people don't REQUEST protection from these fucking terrorists? THAT'S what should be taking place! THEN fucking arrest them if they continue!!!

[mfcorey1]

35. This is a riot!!!!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

36. If they were black or brown they would have been shot immediately without ordering them to drop arms

[WyattKansas]

41. Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!

Every government building I have entered the last decade, and probably before that without me ever noticing, it was clearly marked with No Firearms allowed signs. Hell, guards were never needed to tell criminals that they don't have a right to cause trouble either, before all these right wing babies and Fux Newz junkies came along.

This is complete bullshit to allow spoiled Right Wing brats, misfits, criminals, Wolverine generals, rat fuckers, etc. etc. to get away with temper tantrums and pandering to their disobedience. For Christ's sake Democratic Party, call out the right wing criminal party for what it is and beat them like a drum from now on. Preferably, turn the gun nuts who think they have the right to own guns to combat the government into grease spots on the pavement. I do not care if they are too stupid to understand they can and will never win a war with the government, because the can be turned into a gooey blob before they even realize it. Democratic Party... The criminal Republican Party has pumped all this nonsense into them for decades, so they all think that they do have the absolute right to trample on the rights of most others and cause trouble anytime they want.

[yaesu]

42. I agree a hundred percent. They would be the first to wet themselves when bullets start flying

I'm waiting for one to lay one finger on me so I can show them some manners and the inside of a hospital.

[Takket]

45. i don't understand how you can carry a weapon into a building where weapons are not allowed......

and just walk back out without even being written a ticket............

Michigan State police described the protestors as "peaceful"

Edit: ok apparently you are allowed to carry a gun it............ but i can't believe your allowed to do it while pushing into the senate and screaming at the politicians below

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Hoyt]

46. Should never have allowed the Bundy ranchers to drawdown on federal agents.

They still can identify the terrorists from today, so lock em up.

[MicaelS]

47. Does the name David Koresh ring a bell?

What about Ruby Ridge? Is that what you want to happen AGAIN? Really?

Talk about bad optics.

Both of lead directly to the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building.

Of course, I suppose this means you are now in favor of Capital Punishment, right?

[MineralMan]

71. Not even similar to that.

This was armed men making demands in the State Capitol. Think, please.

[Jake Stern]

73. There is a world of difference

between killing someone who is locked away in a high security facility with very little chance to escape and shooting someone who is part of an armed mob and acting violently at that moment.

I am opposed to capital punishment but I am not opposed to taking down an insurrection. I sincerely wish it can be done peacefully but if they escalate then they need to be met with force.

The Bundy protestors had weapons openly pointed at Federal law enforcement and the government just tucked tail and walked away. There is a direct line between the Bundy standoff and the invasion and occupation of Malheur refuge.

The blood at Waco was on Koresh's hands. He could have surrendered at any time and stopped the standoff. Janet Reno made some blunders but at the end of the day Koresh decided their fate for them.

[dameatball]

48. Seems to me this has been the RW playbook since the Bundys got off. Now it's in capitol buildings

instead of grazing lands in the middle of nowhere.

[artemisia1]

49. Covid-19 will be issuing Darwin Awards to some of these yahoos...

Covid-19 will be issuing Darwin Awards to some of these yahoos.

Unlike the Black Panther protesters of half a century ago, these dummies don't face discrimination, murder under colour of authority and institutionalized racism. What they face is a society doing what societies throughout history have done during pandemics -- from Justinian's plague through the Black Death and including the 1918 Great Influenza -- quarantine.

That said, while I understand the Panthers doing this, I think it was not the right thing to bring guns to a protest even then. Nevertheless, they were acting in defense of their community whereas these present yahoos really are seditious and threatening. They want a policy change on an issue they disagree with. Bringing guns is itself a threat of violence. However, firing upon them most likely would have ultimately ended with real, deadly battles between authorities and "militias" (in quotes to distinguish unauthorized ones with legally constituted ones) throughout the land and, like Waco and Ruby Ridge, led to another round of violence, but this time magnified 100x.

What is the answer? I don't know. Perhaps a well publicized announcement that this is unlawful and further such action will lead to arrests. Announcing this LOUD and CLEAR would put the onus upon the troublemakers and not the government.

[ehrnst]

51. But are they black and selling loose cigarettes?

There's your answer.

[uponit7771]

56. They're mostly or all white males

[Politicub]

57. Agree 100 percent. It is an assassination attempt

by heavily-armed terrorists. This can not be allowed to stand.

[Pepsidog]

59. Most of those armed at the protests couldn't run up the steps without dropping dead of a heart

attack. They are big, dumb obese hillbillies who are undoubtedly cowards at heart. Bunch of scary cats running around with their guns. Well guess what, we libs have guns as too and can shoot a lot straighter.

[vapor2]

60. Photos of this incident

looked very scary and it should not be tolerated.

[warmfeet]

65. Yes.

This.

Terrorism was once a thing to combat. Now, not so much. Why is that?

[musicman65]

67. These are mostly

support from the one in white house,just trying to get their face on tv.
we need to take action on those massing up these events,,perhaps most will get the virus

[Red Mountain]

68. Steps:

1. If it's not criminal, make sure it is. Pass a law.

2. Are felons allowed to own guns? Make sure they are not. Pass a law.

3. Make sure the law passed in (1) above is a felony.

4. If it happens again, identify the criminals and allow them to go home.

5. Arrest them with overwhelming force once they are isolated and alone.

6. Prosecute. Imprison and remove guns as necessary.

7. Rinse, repeat as necessary.


Better than what these assholes deserve but civilized.

Keeping it civilized is our burden as Democrats. Chaos is for the other.

[Iggo]

69. But they're white. That makes it okay.

[DENVERPOPS]

70. insurrection and sedition

two words to look up in the dictionary.

Describe such actions precisely and with no ambiguity....

[Collimator]

72. My recall is not clear. . .

But weren't there a bunch of handicapped folks staging a peaceful protest against benefits cuts who were arrested?

And if many Americans saw a bunch of Muslim people on TV waving guns and threatening their local government offices they would click their tongues and shake their heads over such uncivilized behavior.

[zentrum]

75. What you say should have happened

.....would have happened if they'd been black.

[MineralMan]

76. Except that they might not have had an opportunity to

put down their firearms, as I said.

[Jake Stern]

77. They wouldn't have made it all the way up the front steps

before the state police opened up on them.

[MineralMan]

78. Very possibly.

[eleny]

80. I witnessed unarmed Vietnam War protestors tear gassed at the Pentagon

We all know that an unarmed American Vietnam War protestor was shot and killed at Kent State during an Ohio protest.

So after the armed anarchists are ordered to disburse in Michigan I'd like to see Nat'l Guard troops form a line, kneel and aim. I'd like to see what those right wingers would do.

I'm done with right wingers strutting and flaunting their arms at our government.

[MineralMan]

82. Yes. So did I. Enough, already.

[hadEnuf]

81. Yes, it's now clear to anybody paying attention where these fascist terrorists want to go.

They push it right up to the edge of violence and then back off. They are goading Dems to draw first blood so they can make their phony cause into another Ruby Ridge or Waco. We shouldn't take that bait. I hate to say it, but we need to wait for them to blink first and do something stupid. When they do, we then go zero-tolerance on their dirty terrorist asses and not back off, never mind this "bad apple" or "loner" bullshit they always come up with to defend their murderous cretins.

[eleny]

84. A little blast of tear gas out of a cannon might give them a taste of reality - as a first step

I'd like to watch their reaction in a loop.

[hadEnuf]

86. Yes that would be hilarious!

[eleny]

88. Snowflakes are meltng - beware of the tsunami!

[Jake Stern]

97. We did that with the Bundy crew

Even as some of their people literally had guns aimed at law enforcement.

Guess what?

They are still out there terrorizing others.

Force is ugly but sometimes it must be used regardless of the “optics” in order to preserve the common good.

The Civil War was horrifying but it had to happen to rid our nation of the cancer called slavery and it didn’t even fully do that.

[hadEnuf]

119. The Bundy terrorists aiming guns at law enforcement was breaking the law.

Any local police officer would fire on an individual who aimed a gun at them.

Law enforcement had every right to take the Bundy terrorists down. Why they did not is mystifying.

[LuvNewcastle]

83. All of these protests at state capitals are a rehearsal

for the civil war that Trump wants to start. That is his goal. That's why he's so hyper-partisan and why he politicizes everything. If he loses the election, expect more of these protests. Trump is doing his best to divide us even more than we are already. That's what he's been told to do, whatever it takes to destroy this country and our standing in the world.

[Bonx]

85. If a frog had wings...

You know the rest.

[jmowreader]

87. You know how bad killing these idiots would look, correct?

On the other hand, I would have absolutely no objection to fitting Super Soakers with thermal sights, filling them with tabasco sauce, and popping smoke in the midst of the white-wingers before cutting loose with the squirt guns. "Aim at the face, Private Jones!"

And if that doesn't work, fill fire extinguishers with nitrous oxide and douse these morans in it. When they wake up, they'll be in jail and so will all their precious gunzzz.

BTW is "tolerating Donald Trump's antics" suitable grounds for refusing to seat every Congressional Republican come the next Congress?

[Red Mountain]

91. I'd prefer a more aggressive approach

But reality dictates a slow escalation of law away from cameras.

The last thing we need is these halfwits being turned into heroes.

Or a movement.

Stupid is quick to follow.

[gristy]

90. Not crazy about that idea...

How about this:
1. Evers issues an executive order banning weapons in and near the capitol building.
2. Evers calls on the capitol police and state police and any other police or guard under his jurisdiction to enforce it.
3. The police arrest and lock up anyone violating the order.

That should do it. Better than shooting people, I think.

[MineralMan]

93. The first step in arresting a person bearing firearms is

disarming that person, as I said in my post. If the person refuses to lay down the arms, you don't just say, OK, and let them carry on.

You can't arrest an armed person until that person is disarmed, see...

[gristy]

96. ok, fair enough

We do seem to first need the executive order, though.

[Red Mountain]

101. Was what they were doing illegal?

Obnoxious, yes. The same thing happened in NC outside the legislature.

I don't think we can ask law enforcement to aggressively go after these assholes because I'm not sure they would be willing to risk their lives to do so.

I don't trust their loyalties when it becomes a shooting situation.

Not what they signed up for. Not sure they are willing to enforce the law when it conflicts with their world view.

Which is to say law enforcement officers may agree with the protestors.

Civilian ethos versus military. I'd MUCH prefer military but that's not what is available.

[ripcord]

104. The police have no authority to disarm them

According to Michigan law carrying the guns the way they did was in no way illegal. There are no laws barring people from bringing firearms into the Michigan State Capitol, signs are prohibited but not guns, you might not like it but there is nothing that can be done.

[samplegirl]

92. Agreed

[Marrah_Goodman]

98. Well at least the nutbags know where they can easily kill a bunch of politicians

FFS, what was Michigan thinking?????????

[Smackdown2019]

100. Discharge

Can you see an idiot intentionally or accidentally fire a round off there? Idiots!

[Steelrolled]

106. I expect the state police knew what was going on

and the best thing to do was chill out until the protesters made their point and left. No one got shot. Best outcome.

[NoRoadUntravelled]

107. There are cameras everywhere. The armed people should not be surprised when the FBI

knocks on their doors in the very near future and confiscates the weapons that were used in their unlawful assembly which could lead to riot charges. No doubt there's plenty of video from when they blocked traffic and spent time at the then closed capitol building last time shouting, "Lock her up.", as well.

Ring leaders will be identified and could very well be charged with inciting riot.
Betsy DeVos and her family who support the right wing groups that act as provocateurs to entice these dum-dum AK47 carrying lost little sheep will just continue to get the little puppets to do their bidding. Of course, when strict gun laws are passed they will blame the Democratic party but they're bringing it about themselves by the actions taken today.

[dware]

109. FBI? Really?

FBI has no jurisdiction, this is a state matter and just for the record, these protesters didn't do anything illegal, it's legal to open carry a weapon into the Michigan State House, however dumbass it is.

[Locutusofborg]

108. Discretion is the better part of valor

No making of right wing heroes and martyrs to provoke even more and larger protests across the nation. Let them have their little march, carry their guns and then go home.
Governor Whitmer today received a court ruling upholding the constitutionality of her stay at home orders.
That's all that really matters.

[roamer65]

111. No.

They should have been arrested. If they would have tried to use their weapons, then the police should have used the force required suppress the situation.

I don’t want blood spilled in our capitol building unless it is absolutely necessary.

[dware]

113. Arrested for what?

It's legal to carry weapons in the Michigan State House, so what would the charge be?

[roamer65]

116. That will end when Dems take control in November.

As it should.

They still should have been removed, then arrested if they resisted. I favor use of the National Guard to police the capitol grounds.

[dware]

117. I agree that it should be illegal,

but until it is, then they did nothing illegal.

Why would you favor the NG policing the Capitol grounds?
Aren't the police competent enough?
I don't favor any Military doing any civilian policing, it can lead to bad consequences, like Kent State, the police can handle that very handily.

[dware]

115. Carrying weapons in the Michigan State Capitol is not a violation of the law,

what they were doing is not illegal, stupid, but not illegal.

[progressoid]

120. That's EXACTLY what those armed douches are hoping will happen.

They've been groomed for an armed uprising for decades. All they need is for the government to give them a reason.

[sellitman]

121. The SWAT team should of been called in.

That's all. Let them do their job.

[dlk]

122. This is no time to be wishy washy

Appeasement rarely works with tantruming children. The same can be said for tantruming adults. It’s silly to think there are no rules against bringing assault weapons into state houses. A right isn’t completely unlimited in all circumstances.

[NCDawg]

123. At Most State Facilities,...

it is unlawful to carry and/or conceal and same is posted "NO FIREARMS" are allowed on premises. I currently work at a State Facility and we have signage posted all around campus and at each entrance. We have our own police force, as I'm sure does the Michigan State Capital. I'm shocked, given all the drills that have occurred over the last few years involving Active Shooters, that these protesters weren't immediately stopped, disarmed and removed. I can assure you that if a similar event was attempted at my place of employment it would have been handled very differently!

[MineralMan]

124. Apparently, the Michigan state legislature has passed no such law

to protect itself from disgruntled, armed people. I'd think that should be corrected right away, you know?

[Enoki33]

125. Hope I'm wrong about this, but l too see it as a rehearsal by the

traitor’s armed thugs of what we can expect when their form of fascism is rejected by the majority of voters in November. History tells us Hitler too surrounded himself with pimps, criminals and an assortment of depraved corrupt individuals.

[MineralMan]

126. Yes, perhaps so.

I'm less than amused by such groups these days. Much less.

[fescuerescue]

127. Hmm. I don't know if a slaughter is the right response.

Given that the Michigan non-sense seem to end without bloodshed, I think the choices made were probably a little better than hundreds killed by their government.

But that's just me.

[MineralMan]

128. That's why you order the armed men to put their guns down and step

away from them. If you noticed, that's what I said in the original post. Lawful people would comply.

[fescuerescue]

164. Well I'm just glad that there wasnt a shootout

[friendly_iconoclast]

167. "Lawful people would comply." What they did was legal, like it or not (and I don't, btw)

So they had no legal duty to disarm.

Sorry, but until Michigan changes their law that's the way it has to be.

[Fla Dem]

129. Agree. They put many lives in danger. It was an armed assault no 2 ways about it.

Cannot understand why the state police allowed armed terrorists into the capitol. They have a duty to protect the people there including the governor. It could have gone terribly wrong.

[MrModerate]

131. Unfortunately, under Michigan law...

Any brainless yahoo is allowed to display a firearm in the capitol building so long as hir intent is not unlawful.

[Locrian]

134. exactly

You don't get to decide that someone needs to die if there's no law but it pisses you off

Its pretty close to arguing that its ok for a cop to shoot someone because they were "disrespected"...

[58Sunliner]

133. That's exactly how I feel about these terrorists.

[Catherine Vincent]

137. Agree somewhat

Though they shot down college protestors that weren't armed

[EarnestPutz]

138. MinMan and other commentators - How would you square this discussion with "Stand your ground....

...statues" in the various states that have them? Could the capitol police claim that they "feel threatened" and therefore justified in shooting first, "standing their ground", with no requirement to back down if confronted? How about if it wasn't the police that confronted these guys, but a state legislator, or a visitor to the capitol?

How about if the police or a private citizen saw them on the sidewalk a block from the capitol and "felt threatened"?

Believe me that I have no sympathy for these protestors with their black guns and paramilitary costumes. I feel that they are trying to intimidate people, so what if someone claims to feel intimidated/threatened and shoots first.

I am further confused when I think about "concealed carry" and how does that fit in. Can someone enter the state capitol with a gun under their coat? Even with a permit?

I've been of the mind that there shouldn't be such a thing as "concealed carry", if you carry a gun anywhere, I should have the right to know that you might be a danger to me.

Is it just part of our mythology, or was it true that in the Wild West, if you rode into town you had to check your sidearm with the sheriff until you left and that a concealed gun was a sign of a coward?

I've gone too far, haven't I, and confused the issue. Just shoot them like MineralMan suggested.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

139. I agree

This kind of behavior should NOT be tolerated. PERIOD

[lark]

140. She should call in the armed state police and arrest anyone who does this.

They need to be there every day for the next month to stop these women hating lunatic rw asses from hurting the Governor.

[demmiblue]

142. This is disgusting.

What they did was totally fucked up, but so is this... really.

Enough with going to the home page. Ugh.

[AtheistCrusader]

144. Historical precedent.

[PatrickforO]

148. Darned right. Roll in the tanks.

This is NOT OK BY ANY STRETCH.

[SQUEE]

154. And give them this optic?

[dware]

170. Roll in the tanks?

This is some sick think.

[paparush]

150. I hate to say it but..

I hate to say it but open carry is legal in Michigan, except for the following locations:

Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian

Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.

Sports arena or stadium

A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises

Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials allow concealed weapons

An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more

A hospital

A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university

A Casino

I get your anger and outrage. I feel it as well. But calling for the execution of people exercising their rights is just as outrageous as them carrying guns into the captial.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

152. Michigan has a National Guard.

Arrest the assholes, confiscate their weapons and put the miscreants into a small fenced in area with one porta potty. Don't let 100 people determine the fate of millions.

[dware]

171. Arrest them for WHAT????

In case you missed it, they didn't do anything illegal, they broke no laws and you and others want to have the NG arrest them and take away their weapons.

It is perfectly legal to carry weapons into the Michigan State Capitol, so what crime did they commit?

It was stupid, dumb and the law should be changed, but until then, they are well within the law to carry their weapons into the Capitol.

[randr]

153. I have been advocating that the 'stand your ground' laws should apply

Anyone with a openly displayed weapon in public should be seen as a possible threat to life.
Take them out, they are paid mercenary terrorists and should be made to suffer the consequences of their actions.
On edit: It is time to find out just how many of these crazy loons there are out there. Better sooner than later.

[lsewpershad]

157. Applies only

to people of color.

[hunter]

158. Can we spray them with some sort of sticky stinky disinfectant instead?

Put some kind of indelible ultraviolet fluorescent ink in the mix as well so when they show up in the E.R. they can be shunted off to their own tent.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[Dukkha]

159. There is no logical argument

against killing these terrorist thugs on sight.

How bad do things have to get before people wake up and realize the cowardly stance of "when they go low we go high" is a colossal failure. When jackboot Nazi thugs threaten violence we must respond in kind. An eye for an eye. if someone steps on your toe, chop off their foot. If they threaten to send you to a hospital you send them to the morgue.

[sarisataka]

161. How about moral arguments?

Is there a moral argument against killing people on sight, or are we over such petty concerns?

[MineralMan]

162. How about insisting that they disarm?

That's the first thing. Read my initial post. Their decision.

[sarisataka]

163. They do not need to, legally

As has been pointed out, Michigan has no law prohibiting carrying guns in the Capitol.

So whether we agree with the law or not, for the record I do not agree with it, they were not breaking any law. The police have no authority to order them to disarm and if so ordered they have every right to say no.

So back to my point, is it immoral to shoot protesters who we disagree with even though they are acting within the law? Would it be immoral to shoot someone who refuses to obey a police order that is given unlawfully?

[friendly_iconoclast]

169. Your questions are excellent (if awkward), and will be studiously ignored

Unfortunately, chickenhawkism (for want of a better term) is not the sole and only province of the right.

This thread proves it.

[dware]

172. And if they don't?

Then what? They weren't breaking any laws, so what then if they refuse?
They can't be arrested legally, but you and many others here would have them illegally arrested or worse.

What I'm reading here is chilling, I would expect this from the RWNJ's, but not from Democrats.

[LiberalFighter]

160. That is my feeling too. They went too far by going in armed.

[bdamomma]

166. We have

an organized militia it's called the National Guard. These tRump domestic terrorists should be arrested.

[dware]

173. Again, arrested for What?

What crime did they commit?

In case you missed it, it's perfectly legal to carry weapons into the Michigan State Capitol and until the law is changed, hopefully soon, then there is nothing the police can so except to monitor them

[friendly_iconoclast]

168. You advocate murder, and such an action would give the RW their Kent State

You really need to think about this a little more.

[dware]

174. I'm having a hard time coming to grips with what I'm reading here.

I thought this is a progressive website, it would seem that I'm wrong here, at least on this thread.

[ecstatic]

175. They shot and killed a young woman just for driving near the Capitol

And that was with her clearly visible baby in the car!

Yet those mfers are allowed to carry long guns into a government building!? And scream their covid19 fluids into the eyes and faces of cops?! What if some of the cops die as a result, will that be considered manslaughter or what?

[MineralMan]

176. Who shot and killed a young woman?

Do you have a link to a story about this?

[ecstatic]

180. Yes.

https://www.cnn.com/2014/04/08/us/miriam-carey-autopsy/index.html

[MineralMan]

181. According to the article, she did considerably more than tht.

Thanks for the link.