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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMaking Masks Active with Soap to Protect Against Coronavirus
Last edited Tue May 12, 2020, 04:15 PM - Edit history (1)
Led by Navid Saleh, an associate professor in the Department of Civil, Architectural and Environmental Engineering, the research team from the two universities landed a $197,000 grant from the National Science Foundations Rapid Response Research program to pursue the project. The goal is to make face masks active by infusing soap molecules and other materials into the passive mask surfaces. This phased project will begin with a do-it-yourself kit for health care workers and others to add a soap solution to strengthen masks defenses against coronavirus.
The surfactant chemicals in soap bind with the virus and essentially take it apart. The experiment involves testing several different treatments on masks and measuring how well the chemicals deactivate the virus. The key is to choose the surfactants with the right properties to attach to mask surfaces, stay there during reuse and render the function of virus inactivation. The active masks will be tested for a range of respiratory viruses, in addition to SARS-CoV-2 strains.
More at link:
https://www.engr.utexas.edu/news/archive/8934-making-masks-active-with-soap-to-protect-against-coronavirus
This looks like a cool idea. Hook 'em Horns!
Edited to Add: Please do not ingest soap or think that making a SOAPY mask is the intent of this OP, it is not. The intent of this OP was to highlight some research that is being done looking at NANO fibers and particles of surfactants and their POSSIBLE ability to deactivate the virus.
42bambi
(1,753 posts)didn't rinse them. My thinking was, why not, I breathe the soapy water while washing my hands, hence my decision.
cayugafalls
(5,640 posts)It can't hurt. I use organic soaps so nothing in there can really hurt me.
Patterson
(1,529 posts)enough to work on the virus.
cayugafalls
(5,640 posts)I'll probably just start by soaking that in solution and letting it dry. That way it is not directly touching my face and yet it will still get some condensate.
I don't know though, I just think it is a cool idea and definitely these guys were thinking outside of the soapbox...
eleny
(46,166 posts)We use removable filters, too. Husband just tossed his today. I have a lot of filter material on hand but I hate to run out if we need it even a year from now. Better to have some leftover to share.
We're starting to run a little low on one container of anti-viral wipes. That gave me pause even though we've got several containers left. Now we're relying more on dish detergent and hand soap to clean certain surfaces where it makes sense not to waste a wipe.
Thanks again!
cayugafalls
(5,640 posts)Yes, I used the last of my wipes today on our groceries. So soapy wipes will be my go to from now on. I do use organic soap so I am not to worried though.
I must amend my statement on the soap in the removable filter. I can't recommend that, I do not want to be responsible for any allergic or other negative reaction to the soap residue.
Please stay well.
eleny
(46,166 posts)We're each responsible to do our own research and decide. I'm considering a light spritzing of the shinier side of the filter I'm using. There's a matte side and a less matte side. The less matte faces outward. It's probably good just as it is. Right now we don't go anywhere except to pick up groceries, go to the mailbox or drop something off outside the P.O. . But it's good to explore additional safety precautions.
As complicated as this virus is and how it's mutating it's fascinating that simple soap destroys its outer layer. For now, that is.
cayugafalls
(5,640 posts)Supposedly, they did well in testing and I have a ton of them.
We are the same, Grocery, mailbox and Post Office drop box.
eleny
(46,166 posts)According to Filtrete there's no fiberglass in them. Taking the filters apart wasn't even hard, just a little time consuming. So I did it while watching tv.
Just for an fyi, I learned about the filters and how to take them apart from SewCanShe on YouTube. Her video is called "DIY Face Mask Filter with HEPA Fabric".
The only thing we do differently is to just use two sections of filter and insert it into our mask. If I use five sections, pleat and stitch them like she does we wouldn't be able to breath. My masks are the pleated style for the lay person. So a pleated mask with a thick, pleated filter doesn't work. She sews the flatter Olson style mask.
I would have posted the video url but I'm not sure if you want that here in your thread.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)There are a couple paths you can take. One is to use alcohol above 70%. The other is to use hand sanitizer. The only other things you would need is a plastic container with a lid and dry wipe cloths or old clothing that you can cut into wipes.
eleny
(46,166 posts)But I'll start putting it on my grocery pick up list. I started doing that with peroxide right away and after a month we were able to get the limit of two bottles. Same with liquid laundry bleach. So it's time for the rubbing alcohol pursuit, lol.
Years ago I saw some instructions on cutting a roll of kitchen paper towels in half, putting them into a container and pouring the liquid disinfectant into the container to saturate the towels. I suppose we could just spritz some flannel squares with alcohol to clean things. Paper towels are even precious right now, too. Jeez!
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)I buy natural oils for me products. Today I noticed that two of the companies made hand sanitizer in small or bulk (like pallets). One use 70% plus alcohol and aloe, the other use 75% alcohol and aloe. The sanitizers were both inexpensive, so neither company is trying to gouge.
The companies are:
Bulkapothacary.com: makes the 70%+ version. It's information page on the product was easier to understand on quantities.
Planttherapy.com: makes the 75%+ version. It's product page was a little harder to understand, but the company has an excellent "chat" ap that allows you to talk with someone real time.
For my raw materials, Planttherapy has always been very fast and efficient on deliveries. BulkApoco is good, but not as fast as PT.
I don't know whether either company has alcohol, I would guess that they do, but since I don't need IPA for my intermediates, I have never looked for it.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)eleny
(46,166 posts)StarryNite
(9,443 posts)I'm going to not rinse mine from now on.
Goonch
(3,607 posts)cayugafalls
(5,640 posts)It is so funny!
stillcool
(32,626 posts)on the interfacing might help
cayugafalls
(5,640 posts)Last edited Tue May 12, 2020, 04:21 PM - Edit history (1)
Or using a removable middle layer that can be taken out before washing the mask and soaking the middle layer each time before use.
However, I think the key is going to be getting the Surfactant to be nano sized particles that can attach to the nano sized virii and thereby inactivate the virus.
They have a picture at the link that shows kind of what they are going for in the middle layer of the mask.
Edited to remove statement.
ProfessorGAC
(64,995 posts)I'm dubious about this chemically.
cayugafalls
(5,640 posts)I've since modified my stance, but I am not going to delete all my posts.
For the record; I never stated that anyone should ingest soap or wear a soapy mask. I know that is not your concern, however, I am now stating that whenever I reply to anyone on this thread.
I will edit my original OP to clarify my and your concerns.
Thank you.
PatSeg
(47,399 posts)that people should try to avoid having the soap come in contact with one's skin, which you could do by applying soap on the outside. A lot of people could have a reaction to the soap touching their face for prolonged periods of time.
Meanwhile, please, please don't tell Trump about this, as he may try to inject soap into his veins!!! I sort of say that in jest, but I wouldn't be surprised if he would think it was a good idea. The man is dumber than a pile of rocks.
cayugafalls
(5,640 posts)that is built around nano fiber technology and nano particles of surfactants. Based on the image at the article, no surfactant comes in contact with the wearers face.
If dump finds out about this all bets are off...
PatSeg
(47,399 posts)It has dawned on me that if prolonged hand washing can kill the virus, there should be other ways we can use soap effectively.
Now we can count down until Trump hears about this and wait for the Tweets!
grumpyduck
(6,232 posts)cayugafalls
(5,640 posts)llmart
(15,536 posts)If you're that stoopid, have at it MAGATs! Shot of Clorox with a Dawn chaser. Yum!
Harker
(14,012 posts)There's been talk of making hand sanitizer unpalatable to reduce cases of ingestion.
Hugin
(33,120 posts)Wonderful!
EarnestPutz
(2,120 posts)....is formulated to be antibacterial, as body odor is caused by bacteria, and may also be marginally more effective against viruses? Soap in general, we are told, kills the corona virus, by breaking down it's outer layer of fat cells, and is quite effective by itself.
Doremus
(7,261 posts)All soap will dissemble the virus because it attaches to the molecule and dissolves it.
So in a way all soap is 'antibacterial'.
EarnestPutz
(2,120 posts)...kills viruses, and drew a modest distinction between bacteria and viruses. Deodorant soaps have added ingredients that enhance soap's ability to kill bacteria.
Bayard
(22,061 posts)Before going out? Or Lysol?
If I go out at all, I come home and immediately throw mask in washer.
tinrobot
(10,895 posts)Just keep washing the masks when you get home. No need to go overboard.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)perfectly over night. I also spray the rubber bands and the inside of the masks during the spray process.
cayugafalls
(5,640 posts)No one is suggesting that....
Stay well.
diva77
(7,640 posts)catches on with DIY'ers.
cayugafalls
(5,640 posts)Got soap shoved in my mouth plenty of times by my grandma, mother and babysitter.
As far as I know, my current soap does not have lye in it, so there is that. But I no longer eat soap either. lol
I do not see any harm in not rinsing my middle filter material as well as I was since there is another layer between and I do use organic soap without lye. In my case I know who makes the soap and what they put in it.
The tiny amount of particles I might breathe in are nothing more than what I breathe in while washing my hair or body during a shower...in fact, they are most likely a lot less than during a shower as the soap particles are aerosolized and the space you are in is confined.
To be clear; I am not suggesting anyone ingest soap. The article stands for what it is.
diva77
(7,640 posts)whatever is contained in the mask has to take this into account. It's about the dose/response relationship and exposure via lungs.
eleny
(46,166 posts)You haven't suggested anyone do anything. You've only talked about modest things you're thinking of trying yourself. People are batting around ideas. Try not to worry.
Bayard
(22,061 posts)It will make you go blind.
Sogo
(4,986 posts)Personally, when I breathe detergent soap, I get very irritated sinuses.
Soap not thoroughly washed off dishes and then ingested will cause diarrhea.
Probably other side-effects of getting soap in one's system....
ProfessorGAC
(64,995 posts)As some here know my professional expertise was reaction kinetics & surface chemistry.
Surfactants do indeed, disrupt viral reproduction, either lipid stripping, protein solvolysis, or both. Or, micellization takes place capturing them in suspension, so they get fully rinsed away.
The problem is, with all of these mechanisms a critical component is water.
A dried surfactant has insufficient ionic strength to strip the lipid layer, until it's dissociated in water.
Dry, most of them are neutral salts (anionic) or waxes (nonionic). They have no surface activity in dry form.
So, I'm dubious about this working, unless there is some way to keep the surfactant in, at least, a high viscosity colloidal suspension.
I understand the effort & the attempt to connect the safety elements of detergents & masks.
But, the surface & phase chemistry suggest this is likely to not work.
Hugin
(33,120 posts)However, from the description of the project work is being done within a scientific approach.
ProfessorGAC
(64,995 posts)As surfactants get much above 75% activity, the transition to S2 phase which is close to a hydrated salt. The water (low %) now acts more a hydrogen bonding aid to crystallize the surfactant. Not the exact mechanism, but keeping it simple.
So, we don't have surfactants in water, we have water in surfactant. It's non-fluid, so air wouldn't pass through, making the mask useless.
Surfactants have their highest ionic strength in full solution.
Depending on the surfactant, that's no more than 35%.
So, to get down to 20, 10, 5, 1% it would take quite a lot of water vapor from exhaling.
Last point: I have mass transfer concerns, because the surfactant molecules aren't mobile. So even if the surfactant could defat the virus on a spot, that point of contact is spent. Any surfactant below that molecular layer is now useless, because there is no micellization to carry away the ruined virus components.
I hope I'm wrong and this works, but I doubt it.
Hugin
(33,120 posts)So many issues to achieve a reliable deactivation reaction. Especially, in the field.
I am so heartened to learn at least someone is looking into it.
I_UndergroundPanther
(12,463 posts)You are not going to be out long ? Put a layer of Vaseline or water resistant sunblock on your face so the soap is less likely to piss off your skin.
Just my 2¢
ProfessorGAC
(64,995 posts)Air doesn't flow through liquid well.
Might be hard to breathe through it.
eleny
(46,166 posts)I experimented a while back by tossing towels straight from the dryer into the washer again with no detergent. I chose warm wash water and some suds appeared during the wash cycle.
We have a front loader and use very little detergent to begin with. I give wash loads a second rinse, so the suds surprised me during my experiment. There's bound to be some soap residue in our masks if we launder them by machine.
We just hand washed the masks we wore today. Now I want to go rinse them again.
ProfessorGAC
(64,995 posts)...of the starting mass of surfactant, per 100 cm^2. This is a routine test in the detergent industry.
If you can actually see the difference, there may be something wrong with your washing machine.
That really shouldn't be the case, unless you're using a product with soap (not detergent) and have elevated hardness in your water.
eleny
(46,166 posts)ProfessorGAC
(64,995 posts)Still worse with soap.
Products with high % of the ingredient sodium laureth sulfate are much more hard water tolerant. The alkylbenzene sulfonates are OK in hard water, but not as good as the former. Many consumer detergents have both, in varying ratios.
What happens is that the calcium from the hardness undergoes an ion transfer called methasis. The calcium forms of those detergent active ingredients are highly insoluble and they plate out. Big problem.
You could rinse the clothes with chloroform, but that's probably a bad idea!
eleny
(46,166 posts)diva77
(7,640 posts)that it prevents inhalation of soap molecules 100%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulmonary_surfactant
ProfessorGAC
(64,995 posts)That said, in powder detergent plants, workers have been wearing dust masks for decades.
But, the exposure there would be pretty high.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)I scrub them into a rich lather which cleans my hands and the cloth. Then when I need to kill the virus on surfaces and objects I spray Formula 409 on the wipe until its soaked. I use that to wipe door handles and everything I touch when I go out. I also use it to wipe cardboard boxes thoroughly. I dont care if it makes them somewhat soggy because I break them down to recycle them.
When Im out shopping I carry the wet wipe in my hand which reminds me to constantly clean my hands with it. That way every time I touch or pick something up I swipe it and my hand with the wipe automatically.
Because I do this every door handle I touch is left clean for the next person too.
TNNurse
(6,926 posts)Oxygen and CO2 still need to get through. One on the way in and the other on the way out.
Mr.Bill
(24,282 posts)even after the rinse cycle. I found this out by prepping cars for car shows. Those streaks you get after washing the windows are just that. It's not the window cleaner, it's the soap left behind in the towel you are using. That's why using newspaper to clean the windows works so well.
When I launder my microfiber car cleaning towels, I run a second rinse cycle with vinegar added to it. This removes the soap from the towel and then the streaking on windows is eliminated.
ProfessorGAC
(64,995 posts)...are useful.
They reverse the ionic charge in the rinse cycle and reduce the residual a lot.
cayugafalls
(5,640 posts)The intent of this OP was to highlight some research that is being done looking at NANO fibers and particles of surfactants and their POSSIBLE ability to deactivate the virus.
OP has been updated to reflect this statement.
Stay Well.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)of the efficacy of soap, at least with respect to hand washing, is that the soap does loosen the casing of the virus, but it is the rubbing (remember the 20 second rule) that dislodges the virus particles so that they then can be RINSED away.
Leaving soap in your mask without scrubbing or rinsing sounds useless and dangerous. We have 3M fabric masks that specifically instruct you to immerse in neutral soapy water and rub the surfaces together and rinse thoroughly. Thats what I do and will continue to do.