The CDC says that coronavirus does not spread easily by touching contaminated objects.

[Baitball Blogger]

What CDC is telling us this? Is it the CDC that is operating on pure science? Or is it the CDC that is being led by a Trumpian internal appointment who is pushing Trumpian policy so that small businesses don't have to worry about the expense of wiping down every surface in their operations?

Because, those kind of precautions cost money.

At a very minimum, we should not take anything at face value, until we examine how the decisions were reached. Where is the science, the tests, the results that led to this new awareness?

And is it corroborated by any country outside the U.S. border?

[blueinredohio]

1. I'm not taking any chances with this administration.

I'll still cover up.

[Roy Rolling]

38. Technically Plausible

But why make such a statement? What is the use of making such a dubious and unproven distinction among the 331 million people the CDC serves?

No use. But it can certainly create doubt about the CDC’s credibility.

[ProfessorGAC]

2. Quite The 180

I've been wearing gloves in stores since early March.
Now, it's not a big problem?
I question this, because it should have been easy to isolate this variable & the concern would have been obviated weeks ago.
I'm still wearing gloves.

[Baitball Blogger]

7. Glad to see that we are all learning from lessons passed.

This Administration follows a pattern of rejecting science in order to push business policy. Worse, he has commandeered the once-integrity of our institutions in order to fool us.

There is no reason to accept anything that comes from a Trump tainted government.

[phylny]

10. I'm wearing gloves, too.

Since I wore them for work, I'm familiar with how to handle myself in gloves. Gloves remind me, "You may be contaminated because you touched things." I treat my hands in gloves as though they are contaminated, take them off properly, then wash my hands. I will continue wearing them. I'll also continue wiping down my groceries, leaving packages and mail to sit for a few days, and wearing my mask.

[ProfessorGAC]

19. Similar

I'm using dishwashing gloves.
I keep a spray bottle of cleaner with bleach.
When I get back to the car, I spray the gloves with that cleaner & mimic washing my hands.
Then I take them off & put them on a storage box I keep in the, so they dry.
Quite frankly, I don't see how the virus, encapsulated in saliva or mucous droplets would not be a transmission risk.
The CDC has become so politicized that there's mixed messaging that confuses what's trustworthy with what's not.

[idahoblue]

56. Wearing gloves has always been

Unnecessary and even counter productive. Just wash your hands.

[luvtheGWN]

60. I agree.

It's much better to keep a small sanitizer bottle in your purse, and in your car, and sanitize your hands once you're out of the store. And if you are making a few stops -- grocery store, wine store, post office -- it would mean going through 3 pairs of gloves, and pulling them off correctly and disposing of them carefully. Hand sanitizer goes a long way!

[RhodeIslandOne]

70. And wipe down the cart before using

That’s the most likely thing in the store to be contaminated next to the cash wrap/card swipe.

[ProfessorGAC]

76. We Disagree (nt)

[Igel]

63. CDC said "be careful."

All the reports from researchers said otherwise.

Virus was found 3 days after being placed on a surface? Fine. How was the virus identified? Oh. PCR. So viral RNA was found. Could it be infectious? Mostly no, but such studies are far rarer than those using PCR tests.

Even in the few that showed virus was still viable, they pointed to the kinetics of viral breakdown and said that it was highly unlikely that there was enough left to be infectious, even under optimal conditions.

That was the science in late March/early April. It hasn't changed. I stopped the rabid handwashing back in early April.


I'm also backtracking on something, as well. Recently it was shown that the real risk isn't from most infected people, but some individuals in high-contact situations right at the point where they have high viral loads and are shedding virus in ways that allow it to be transmitted. It makes sense of the PCR's claim that it was unclear that human-to-human transmission was anything more than "possible", with the clarification that it was possible only in places likes homes where the infected person is in close, constant, long contact with the uninfected person. (Still, the appropriate response would have been to make all the data available and to say that while most of the known cases were from that mode of transmission, the known cases numbered about 3 dozen and it's far better to err on the side of caution, esp. given that the caveat was based on "most" and the CP in China did what they usually do in assuming all the known cases were all the cases--assume complete knowledge.)

[ProfessorGAC]

75. Good Post! (nt)

[AirmensMom]

3. Still not taking chances.

Everything that comes into this house gets washed with soapy water.

[hlthe2b]

4. Sure, if you don't then immediately touch your mouth, eyes, nose

I find this 'blanket' statement disturbing. We don't even know the viral load necessary to infect, much less the specific time kinetics of inactivation by the infective viral load on surfaces. We know only the absolute dynamics of viral nucleic acid detection by surface and environmental conditions. THESE ARE NOT THE SAME.

[Baitball Blogger]

8. If they really believed that touching was not a vector any more, they would tell us we could ease

up one the hand-washing. So, yeah. This is another bogus recommendation that has been pushed by the White House.

[Igel]

65. The handwashing is an always rule.

It's been there as long as I can remember. Now because of colds, now COVID, now flu, now something else. To say, "Nah, don't need all that handwashing" would be to walk back 30 years of CDC advice.

When in doubt, be like a cat and engage in self-cleaning.

[RhodeIslandOne]

71. It's never been considered "the primary source"...

....for transmission, most health advisories said that as far back as February.

[DFW]

5. Well, rats

That means that Trump and Pence aren't anywhere near as great a danger to each other as one might wish.

[Iliyah]

6. I will listen to Dr. Fauci . . .

this administration sucks.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

61. Speaking of Fauci, he said on CNN last night that you may see

More of him and Birx soon. He was asked why no more briefings.

I suspect trump looking at polls minutely ticking down.

It's inexplicable to me why he thought taking away the daily briefing for millions, many at home captive, was a smart idea. All because he got his panties in wad when he got ridiculed for suggesting the injection of disinfectant.

[LuvNewcastle]

9. Trump and co. don't want us to stop shopping.

A lot.of people don't want to handle merchandise in stores because they're worried about who handled it before them. Trump is saying everybody needs to go back to the way things were so the economy can rebound by election time. I don't know how we're going to do any shopping, though. Everybody's broke.

[Baitball Blogger]

17. +1

[Atticus]

11. My thoughts exactly. nt

[backtoblue]

12. If the virus was "alive" on a surface for so long in previous

studies.... the virus either recessively mutated or the studies were initially wrong.

Or option Z, which is we are being lied to.

[DeminPennswoods]

14. "Alive" in the sense that some was detectable

but that dectetable part was a degraded fragment(s) that was not capable of infecting a person.

[Baitball Blogger]

20. This is going to turn out to be another one of Trump's wishful thinking that translates to

high risk behavior.

He claims there is enough PPE, when we know there isn't.

He says everyone that wants a test gets one, when we know that's not true.

Then he says that he doesn't like testing, because coronavirus tests only reveals positive cases and that makes him look bad.

And now we're hearing that we shouldn't worry too much about getting the virus when we touch contaminated surfaces.

By the time this is over, Americans will turn into the most skeptical people on the planet.

Welcome to my world.

[NutmegYankee]

43. Previous studies found detectable traces of RNA, not live infectious virus after several days.

Wildly misunderstood when it was first reported. This is just like the “reinfections” which have been found to be dead virus being expelled.

[Igel]

66. People don't understand what the tests show.

Don't understand data, can't understand conclusions derived from the data.

Data don't talk.

[Girard442]

13. Ultimately, it's a game of numbers.

If I'm in traffic and I don't signal for a right turn, will that cause an instant three-car pile-up? No, probably not. Is it reasonable to guesstimate it will significantly lower my chances of getting rammed from behind over a lifetime of driving? Well, yeah.

Same thing with handwashing and surface cleaning. Easy to do. Improve your chances of staying healthy somewhat? Yeah, probably.

Is it irresponsible for the CDC to say it's unimportant in the (I'm guessing) absence of hard evidence? Oh, Hell yes!

[jberryhill]

18. +1

[Demsrule86]

34. It is Trump's CDC now...can't be trusted.

[Maxheader]

15. The tone I got from the latest press statement..

Early on they listed people to people contact as the main source of infections,

in the USA. Sure the virus can be on just about any surface..But that only

accounts for a small portion of sources...

[masmdu]

16. Israeli study shows same.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/05/18/chances-of-contracting-corona-from-surfaces-slim-israeli-study-finds/&ved=2ahUKEwiU2aTIsMfpAhUFneAKHc7nDokQFjAAegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw0FRS8XqpefRp8jnKQHR6aB

[Baitball Blogger]

21. Call me skeptical.

They claim to be the first to test the presence of life and infectious viruses on surfaces. If that is true, how did we come to learn months ago that the virus lives 24 hours on paper and 3 days on plastic?

"To the best of our knowledge, this is the first study that has looked into the presence of live and infectious virusus on surfaces, and as of now, we haven't proved that it is even possible to contract the virus from surfaces," Brosh said.

[NutmegYankee]

44. I doesn't. It still had detectable RNA after that long.

That study made no effort to determine if the virus was still infectious after that level of time, but leaned toward “no”. Follow up studies indicates that 99% is dead on cardboard in 8 hours. Just like bacteria, you need to take in enough virus particles at once to get infected.

[Demsrule86]

32. I don't trust them either... a country run by a Trump lover.

[Liberal In Texas]

22. "Not spread easily" to me does not mean spread is impossible.

I'll continue to wipe down everything the comes into the house or let it sit in the garage for 3 days.

[Baitball Blogger]

23. I am sure that many people will take "Not spread easily" as a green light to loosen precautions.

[Demsrule86]

33. I agree. One of my neighbors...older. She caught Covid and survived.

But she had stayed home...didn't go out at all or see anyone. Her groceries were delivered on her porch. She did not interact with anyone. The only way she could have caught this was by touch.

[Talitha]

67. Very good point!

[bucolic_frolic]

24. Because of buffonery in Trump's CDC I'm thinking we will see 7 figures

in the deceased column over the next 12 months. Tell me I'm wrong, I hope I'm wrong, but it sounds like
this wave is going to roll.

[tanyev]

25. I do think what's been learned about the virus indicates that the biggest danger is breathing it in,

i.e., being in an enclosed area with lots of talking or singing or exercising. They really didn't know until there were a lot of cases that could be tracked and studied.

My progression of grocery store precautions over the last few months has been: Careful with my hands, no mask-->Gloves, no mask-->Gloves and mask--->Mask, but do I really need these gloves?

[Baitball Blogger]

27. You will always need those gloves as long as there are people who refuse to wear masks.

On several occasions I have been around people who did not wear masks and, in my vicinity, they coughed or sneezed. They may have been more than six feet away from me, but they brought their hands to their faces. This all occurred inside stores where those droplets could settle on the merchandise.

[Karma13612]

47. The minute you start touching surfaces with the gloves,

Yours gloved hands are as dirty as if you just go without gloves.

My shopping routine:

Items I have on me at time of entering store:

*Waist-pack containing wallet and phone. They will NOT be accessed at all in the store. They do not remain in the car for fear of stolen car.
*Hanging from Left belt loop is a tiny bottle of hand sanitizer.
*Hanging from right belt loop are car keys.
*In right hand pocket is credit card and store loyalty card. In same pocket is paper handwritten shopping list.

Face mask is donned as I lock up car and approach store.

In store, I select merchandise. I go thru check out, using credit card and loyalty card to pay for items.

Leave store, Approach car, halt carriage, immediately sanitize Hands.
Unlock car and place items in car.
Sanitize hands again and enter car. Place mask and waist pack on passenger seat.
Drive home.
Remove packages to garage. Hubby and I sanitize all items(Cereal boxes, jar etc) or wasH in sink like apples, etc.
I wipe off credit and loyalty cards. Phone is removed from waistpack and wiped down. Wallet remains in Waistpack, along with receipts and sanitizer and car keys Which are All dumped in an area and left untouched until needed or 3 days have elapsed.

My clothes are changed and dumped in the wash.

Been doing this for 2 months and feeling pretty safe so far.

[Baitball Blogger]

50. Other than the coronavirus utility belt, we have the same process.

But hubby is losing his commitment to wiping down the merchandise. Since I buy for 2-3 weeks worth of food, I stick to the cleaning process even if I have to do it myself. From the time that I leave to the grocery store and the time that the last tomato is stored in the referigerator, it takes about 5 1/2 to 6 hours.

[Karma13612]

54. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I'm going to

Market my process and sell the utility belts for just $19.95 +SH.
BUT, if you buy two, you only pay the shipping! 🤣

Hurry! Operators are standing by!

Six hours, OMG! More power to you!

Stay safe!

[Politicub]

64. I also have a similar routine. I think through every step and

point of contact before heading to the grocery store. I have it down to a system now.

I wear cargo shorts and use one of the lower pockets as my contamination pocket for the credit card I use to pay or anything else on my person that I touch at the store or at the car.

I throw my clothes in the laundry, too, and then take a shower. I worry about droplets in my hair or elsewhere on my arms, etc.

[Karma13612]

80. Excellent! Yea

I love cargo pants!

I have 3 pairs of cargo-pant style scrubs that even have a loop attached for a carabiner!
They are light weight and you can get them in scores of colors. They are perfect for COVID-19 shopping as well as hiking.

[Ace Rothstein]

46. I haven't been and won't be wearing gloves. Have been doing the mask thing for over a month.

I can't believe people actually wipe down every thing they bring into their house.

[Karma13612]

49. Yea, no gloves for me

But my hubby is 72 and I go do the shopping.

We are wiping stuff down since we just don’t want to risk it. And I have had Pneumonia, and plenty of bouts of bronchitis in the past (66 yo myself).

I am hoping that we will get more clarity from Dr.Fauci in the coming days and weeks. Surface contamination facts have been so scarce and inconsistent. I am happy to stop all the disinfecting once we are sure of virus survival rates on surfaces.

Be safe!🙋‍♀️🙂

[Submariner]

26. FU Trump CDC....FU Trump NIH...FVU Trump spokes-liars

Give me Fauci or blue state physicians. FU to the rest of them.

BTW, when are Trump's lying physicians going to make their grand entrance and tell us don't bother to social distance or wear a mask because it's not necessary, and watch their medical careers evaporate before their lying eyes.

[Baitball Blogger]

28. +1

[Ford_Prefect]

29. I suspect such obfuscation from the CDC is an attempt to confuse the public

into dropping their guard and returning to work. At the very least this sounds dubious and counter-intuitive.

[Demsrule86]

30. I don't trust Trump's CDC. But if this is true...all those months the CDC told

us masks were not needed was wrong and how many died? I didn't listen and wore a mask from the beginning.

[Baitball Blogger]

42. Me too.

I was following the heist of our facemask supply back in January. I KNEW there had to be a reason why it was impossible to find them in Lowes and Home Depot that early, before the US alarms had been sounded. And when Trump's surgeon general claimed facemasks were not necessary, my radar went up. I knew that couldn't be right because every other country on this planet was warning their people to wear them.

I immediately connected with family members to tell them not to listen to the early facemask advice from our surgeon general. I told them it was more likely that they knew that recommending that we wear them would have exposed Pompeo's blunder, allowing private individuals to clean us out.

[Demsrule86]

45. Yep, we were lied to and many of us died as a result...may Trump roast in

hell after spending weeks on a ventilator.

[beachbumbob]

31. the political takeover across all Federal agencies leads me to disbeleive just about any data that

released. Including this from the CDC

[yaesu]

39. agree. nt

[beachbumbob]

41. I want to think that 60% of america disbelieves what comes out of trump admin as well

[samsingh]

35. We can't trust any information given out by this administration

[jmg257]

36. Mixed message - said it's not thought to be the main way

C

OVID-19 is a new disease and we are still learning about how it spreads. It may be possible for COVID-19 to spread in other ways, but these are not thought to be the main ways the virus spreads.

From touching surfaces or objects. It may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes. This is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads, but we are still learning more about this virus.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html

[Baitball Blogger]

40. It's like they're always probing for wiggle room.

Nothing said in this new disclosure should have an effect on the precautions we have been following in the last few months.

[jmg257]

79. Yep exactly nothing concrete on anything!

[yaesu]

37. i read that yesterday and like every ageny tRump destroyed dont trust its advice. nt

[IronLionZion]

48. How easily is easily?

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html

They've always said person to person is easier spread than indirect ways. This sounds like a way to make people feel less paranoid about touching surfaces like packages, door handles, elevator buttons, shopping carts, etc. as cities open up. Some of my neighbors use their shoes to open doors and that could spread it to the rest of us who use our hands.

There are so many factors around surfaces. Surfaces in hospitals or in a sick person's home are going to be more dangerous than others. Surfaces outside might be exposed to sunlight, rain, etc. Fauci himself encourages going outdoors for hiking or something like that but avoid people.

Industrial disinfectants are plentiful in supply since workplaces have been closed. I would support small businesses who continue disinfecting and social distancing over the others.

I carry a small bottle of hand sanitizer with me specifically for use after touching elevator buttons and door handles (urban living) just in case.

[Karma13612]

52. Since I'm a bit of a germaphobe

AND have worked in hospitals for years (retired medical coder),

I do not touch door knobs and light switches and faucet handles with my bare hands. I use my elbows or paper towel covered hands. It's just automatic for me now.

I don’t use antibacterial soap, only regular soap and hot water to wash hands. I have hated this COVID thing cause now I am using that awful hand sanitizer whenever out and about, purely out of necessity.

[Sunsky]

51. Cleaning is good

I'll continue to clean everything. As a healthcare professional, I take no pleasure in saying this, but I have no trust in this CDC. I think public safety have taken a backseat to facilitate the wishes of the Trump admin.
I also believe the directive released last month is ambiguous and creates confusion. Why post something you're unclear about, with a lot of if, buts, and maybe (that's my interpretation of the article)? It should not have been released. However, it did not say the coronavirus cannot be spread by surface contact, it stated (without evidentiary data) that surface contact was not the main mode of transmission (direct contact is). The release also suggests that surface contact transmission may still be possible. Therefore, the public is still advised to routinely clean surfaces as a preventative measure.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html
I fear that some people may misunderstand the release and stop cleaning surfaces. Some in the media are already suggesting that we may be over cleaning but, with a viral pandemic it's better to err on the side of caution.
The new CDC reopening guidelines also stresses the importance of cleaning surfaces. It also recommends not using or sharing maps. I didn't even think about this. Those maps at the front of malls, in theme parks, bus route etc; are high contact objects.

[FormerDittoHead]

53. "...is it corroborated by any country outside the U.S. border?"

Thank the GOP / Trump for making this question valid and indeed necessary.

[PCIntern]

55. RED ALERT!!!!

This is a Trumpian bullshit memo. Dr Feelgood stuff.

[Kid Berwyn]

77. Hence the ensemble.

Got mine XXXL in Octafish Orange.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

57. +1

[spanone]

58. We cannot trust anything 'our' government tells us. NOTHING.

trump has politicized EVERYTHING

[Lonestarblue]

59. Is this pronouncement connected to the Republican push for business immunity?

Democrats are not likely to go along with the immunity Republicans want, but this may be a partial way around that. The CDC says it’s unlikely that the virus spreads from surfaces; therefore, if your employer forces you to return to work and they refuse to follow proper disinfectant practices (because money) and you get sick, it’s not their fault. I don’t know how they evade the person-to-person spread, but I’m sure many will find a way to push responsibility to the employee. I hate being so negative, but I trust nothing this administration does. So far, the only person whose word I trust is Dr. Fauci—one person in this whole damned administration.

[JI7]

62. Does this mean Salons can Open Up if they require Face Masks

[CaptainTruth]

68. I've read a lot of studies & my main conclusion is ...

...most transmissions are due to being near an infected person for a prolonged time (more than a few minutes, like 30-45-60 minutes), & are either due to physical contact (hugging, kissing) or airborne, where you're inhaling the air the infected person exhaled (or coughed, or sneezed out).

One well-researched case occurred in a restaurant where 1 person infected 9 others sitting at a row of tables in a restaurant because the air conditioning recirculated the air in a line over those tables. Diners sitting at an adjacent/parallel row of tables a few feet away were fine, no infections, because the AC wasn't blowing that recirculated air over them.

So, that was a case where people sat "downwind" of an infected person for a prolonged period of time (probably 45 minutes to an hour) & 9 of them got infected. It's caused me to pay attention to which way the breeze is blowing if I have to get near other people.

I found an article about that study:

[link:https://www.businessinsider.com/how-restaurant-air-conditioning-gave-nine-people-covid-china-2020-4|]

[intheflow]

69. I'm waiting for the study about surface contact in libraries.

I'm a librarian and obviously, the whole point of public libraries is unfettered access to info. Which means, "Please, come in, stay for hours, touch allll the things!" This is a beautiful thing when we're not in the middle of a pandemic. But now? Potentially deadly for staff and patrons.

The Institute of Museum & Library Services (government agency that funds libraries), OCLC (private library research organization), and Battelle (non-profit research agency) are conducting their own study to determine safe handling of physical materials. I feel confident that, even though IMLS is a government agency, they're not in cahoots with the guy who wants to eliminate their funding. OCLC would be dirt to all libraries if they went along with releasing bogus info. (I don't know anything about Battelle.) So I'm waiting for that study to be released.

https://www.imls.gov/news/covid-19-research-partnership-inform-safe-handling-collections-reopening-practices-libraries

[IronLionZion]

72. People can always check WHO and other sources outside Trump's control

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/myth-busters

With the correct answer being it depends on many factors from when the infected person's droplets got onto the surface to when you touched it and then touched your face. It's easier spread through droplets in the air, and that's been consistent this whole time from every authoritative source.

They had also changed their guidance on masks from a few months ago. Masking for a friend might be better than being paranoid over touching surfaces.

[crickets]

73. This is about getting people back to shopping and working.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213469179#post10
[posted in response to another thread on the same topic]


https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/charlotte-woman-hasnt-left-her-house-in-three-weeks-but-tested-positive-for-covid-19/275-77707b1d-fd2f-4a36-bf3e-16beca4104c4

An epidemiologist called Brummert Tuesday, April 21 with the news: They had traced her exposure back to the keypad at the pharmacy.

Messages like this from the CDC are going to get people to let their guard down, and it will backfire badly. I'm still wearing gloves/mask on the rare occasions I go out, and not changing my souped-up cleaning routines at all.

[MerryBlooms]

74. Just watched MTP clip revealing trump's CDC is now conflating

diagnostic testing and antibody testing, making a mess of the data. trump's CDC has made a lot of mistakes from the beginning of this crisis and those mistakes have cost lives... Starting with the BS of no one needed to wear masks. Our household will proceed with the cautious routines we have in place. I don't trust a damn word out of trump's administration.

[Baitball Blogger]

78. How Trump has controlled the message from all the institutions within his reach, twisting science

and fact to meet his political objectives, will be the stuff that public administration majors will be studying for generations to come.

[WhiteTara]

81. That means BE EXTRA CAUTIOUS!

They are the backwards mis-admin and everything is a lie, so you work on the assumption the opposite is true. Wear gloves, sanitize packages coming into the house, and use hand sanitizer in public.