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Richard D

(8,752 posts)
Sat May 23, 2020, 12:07 PM May 2020

Excellent information (not happy though) from Jonathan Smith, an epidemiologist from Yale.

Last edited Sat May 23, 2020, 04:30 PM - Edit history (1)

From Yale Epidemiologist, Jonathan Smith:

https://elemental.medium.com/hold-the-line-17231c48ff17

"As an infectious disease epidemiologist, at this point I feel morally obligated to provide some information on what we are seeing from a transmission dynamic perspective and how they apply to the social distancing measures. Like any good scientist I have noticed two things that are either not being articulated or not present in the “literature” of social media. I have also relied on my much smarter infectious disease epidemiologist friends for peer review of this post; any edits are from that peer review.

Specifically, I want to make two aspects of these measures very clear and unambiguous.

First, we are in the beginning of this epidemic’s trajectory. That means even with these distancing measures we will see cases and deaths continue to rise globally, nationally, and in our own communities in the coming weeks. This may lead some people to think that the social distancing measures are not working. They are. They may feel futile. They aren’t. You will feel discouraged. You should. This is normal in chaos. But this is normal epidemic trajectory. Stay calm. This enemy that we are facing is very good at what it does; we are not failing. We need everyone to hold the line as the epidemic inevitably gets worse.

This is not my opinion; this is the unforgiving math of epidemics for which I and my colleagues have dedicated our lives to understanding with great nuance, and this disease is no exception. I want to help the community brace for this impact. Stay strong and with solidarity knowing with absolute certainty that what you are doing is saving lives, even as people begin getting sick and dying. You may feel like giving in. Don’t.

Second, although social distancing measures have been (at least temporarily) well-received, there is an obvious-but-overlooked phenomenon when considering groups (i.e. families) in transmission dynamics. While social distancing decreases contact with members of society, it typically increases your contacts with family members /
very close friends. This small and obvious fact has surprisingly profound implications on disease transmission dynamics. Study after study demonstrates that even if there is only a little bit of connection between groups (i.e. social dinners, playdates/playgrounds, etc.), the epidemic isn’t much different than if there was no measure in place. The same underlying fundamentals of disease transmission apply, and the result is that the community is left with all of the social and economic disruption but very little public health benefit.

You should perceive your entire family to function as a single individual unit; if one person puts themselves at risk, everyone in the unit is at risk. Seemingly small social chains get large and complex with alarming geometric speed. If your son visits his girlfriend, and you later sneak over for coffee with a neighbor, your neighbor is now connected to the infected office worker that your son’s girlfriend’s mother shook hands with. This sounds silly, it’s not. This is not a joke or a hypothetical. We as epidemiologists see it borne out in the data time and time again and no one listens. Conversely, any break in that chain breaks disease transmission along that whole chain.
In contrast to hand-washing and other personal measures, social distancing measures are not about individuals, they are about societies working in unison. These measures also take a long time to see the results. It is hard (even for me) to conceptualize how on a population level, ‘one quick little get together’ can undermine the entire framework of a public health intervention, but it does. I promise you it does. I promise. I promise. I promise.

You can’t cheat it. People are already itching to cheat on the social distancing precautions just a “little”- a playdate, a haircut, or picking up a needless item at the store, etc. From a transmission dynamics standpoint, this very quickly recreates a highly connected social network that undermines all of the work the community has done so far.

Until we get a viable vaccine this unprecedented outbreak will not be overcome in one grand, sweeping gesture, rather only by the collection of individual choices our community makes in the coming months. This virus is unforgiving to choices outside the rules.

My goal in writing this is to prevent communities from getting ‘sucker-punched’ by what the epidemiological community knows will happen in the coming weeks. It will be easy to be drawn to the idea that what we are doing isn’t working and become paralyzed by fear, or to just‘cheat’ a little bit in the coming weeks. By knowing what to expect, and knowing the importance of maintaining these measures , my hope is to encourage continued community spirit, strategizing, and action to persevere in this time of uncertainty."

By Jonathan Smith, a lecturer in Epidemiology of Microbial Diseases and Global Health at Yale University School of Public Health. His research focuses on infectious disease transmission dynamics.

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Excellent information (not happy though) from Jonathan Smith, an epidemiologist from Yale. (Original Post) Richard D May 2020 OP
This is depressing because I thought maybe we could start to interact with a loved one-- dawg day May 2020 #1
It is very depressing. Richard D May 2020 #2
I hear you! I've been very depressed lately. The terrible news and the lies from Trump and his ilk Trailrider1951 May 2020 #17
I have a cat, but he's not very affectionate! dawg day May 2020 #29
Here in BC, our chief medical officer says you can enlarge your "bubble" by one level Fiendish Thingy May 2020 #18
IMHO, Bonnie Henry is a star. BobTheSubgenius May 2020 #23
Dr. Henry is a hero for sure! Fiendish Thingy May 2020 #28
Great information... FarPoint May 2020 #3
This looks like the original source nilram May 2020 #13
Thank You... FarPoint May 2020 #15
Found this link with the article iluvtennis May 2020 #22
It needs the date of the article as things changed. Like public should to wear masks to the should LiberalArkie May 2020 #4
March 20, 2020. Here's a link-- nilram May 2020 #8
Is there a link to this? Thanks nt Adelante May 2020 #5
i found one barbtries May 2020 #9
Thank you nt Adelante May 2020 #10
It's a really good thing that experts (and DUers) are sharing important information like this. Mike 03 May 2020 #6
I've found that it doesnt matter WHO says WHAT; oldsoftie May 2020 #19
The CDC is being muffled sadly. nt live love laugh May 2020 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author BannonsLiver May 2020 #7
doom porn WA-03 Democrat May 2020 #11
Post removed Post removed May 2020 #12
Multiple links to the original have been provided up thread WA-03 Democrat May 2020 #21
Earliest source I found nilram May 2020 #14
Knowledge is power. BarbD May 2020 #16
Thank you for this survival porn..... (no sarcasm here) zed nada May 2020 #20
Welcome to DU, zed nada! calimary May 2020 #25
Got a link? we can do it May 2020 #24
thanks to Calimary...... zed nada May 2020 #27
Excellent article, easy to follow. Karadeniz May 2020 #30
Knr. The truth. Beartracks May 2020 #31
KnR. Excellent. jmg257 May 2020 #32

dawg day

(7,947 posts)
1. This is depressing because I thought maybe we could start to interact with a loved one--
Sat May 23, 2020, 12:10 PM
May 2020

I have an adult child who lives in the next town, and we've seen each other a couple times for an hour or so. Now I'm thinking that given the formula of exposure X time, probably we shouldn't.

Richard D

(8,752 posts)
2. It is very depressing.
Sat May 23, 2020, 12:12 PM
May 2020

But real. So sorry. I'd like nothing better than to get a hug from a friend or have friends over for dinner. It's been months since I have touched or been touched by another human. Not even a hand shake. It's friggin hard and incredibly lonely.

Trailrider1951

(3,414 posts)
17. I hear you! I've been very depressed lately. The terrible news and the lies from Trump and his ilk
Sat May 23, 2020, 01:29 PM
May 2020

Not much human contact. There are a few bright spots, however. One is my cat. She wakes me up around 6 am, wanting her breakfast. So, I get up and feed her the morning ration of Fancy Feast. Later, she will come to the side of the chair where I'm reading DU and nudge me with her paw, telling me she wants to be petted and brushed. Not really human, but a welcome contact with a friend. Could you adopt a pet cat or dog? It won't take the place of human interaction, but it does help a lot. Hope this helps! **virtual hug**

dawg day

(7,947 posts)
29. I have a cat, but he's not very affectionate!
Sat May 23, 2020, 05:14 PM
May 2020

He's endlessly entertaining, however, because he's so inscrutable, and he has so many human expressions- but sort of negative human expressions, like "disdain" and "contempt"!

He makes me laugh, and that's good! He walks up to me and looks up and caws like a crow when he wants to be fed.

Also, in the neighborhood, we're all going out and waving at each other. it's kind of a standoffish neighborhood, so this is the friendliest we've ever been.


Fiendish Thingy

(15,582 posts)
18. Here in BC, our chief medical officer says you can enlarge your "bubble" by one level
Sat May 23, 2020, 01:29 PM
May 2020

With all the provisos outlined in the OP - if you decide to allow your kids to see their grandparents, the grandparents must agree to no other social contacts, and vice versa (kids can’t have play dates).

It’s going to be a long haul, at least until the vaccine is available.

BobTheSubgenius

(11,563 posts)
23. IMHO, Bonnie Henry is a star.
Sat May 23, 2020, 02:49 PM
May 2020

So calm. It makes her more convincing, to me, at least.

Greetings from Victoria!

LiberalArkie

(15,713 posts)
4. It needs the date of the article as things changed. Like public should to wear masks to the should
Sat May 23, 2020, 12:13 PM
May 2020

wear masks.

Mike 03

(16,616 posts)
6. It's a really good thing that experts (and DUers) are sharing important information like this.
Sat May 23, 2020, 12:19 PM
May 2020

What ticks me off is that this information isn't coming from a CDC scientist on a daily or weekly basis on a national news platform. It's like there's an Underground Railroad of responsible information about this pandemic but you have to either be in the right place at the right time to find it, or you have to spend hours a day hunting for it. I don't mind hunting for it, but many people don't have that luxury.

Thanks for posting this. Another gem I wouldn't have seen otherwise.

oldsoftie

(12,530 posts)
19. I've found that it doesnt matter WHO says WHAT;
Sat May 23, 2020, 01:47 PM
May 2020

many people will look for the "expert" who validates THEIR opinion. Whether it be "This is all overblown" or "we're all going to get it" or somewhere in between.

Response to Richard D (Original post)

WA-03 Democrat

(3,039 posts)
11. doom porn
Sat May 23, 2020, 01:12 PM
May 2020

In what way? We have to adjust to the new conditions. Doom porn to me is “sorry Granny your going to die for commerce.”

Or “it will all just go away...” DJT

Response to WA-03 Democrat (Reply #11)

WA-03 Democrat

(3,039 posts)
21. Multiple links to the original have been provided up thread
Sat May 23, 2020, 02:19 PM
May 2020

Yes, the OP should have included a link backing it up. One thing I do love about DU is the sourcing and notation. We except it. It’s was called out and provided up thread. I should have been clearer.

My question was, Doom or Death Porn is a subversion tactic to desensitize death by authoritative governments. I see half of all twitter comments on COVID-19 are bots (study released yesterday by Carnegie Mellon University). [https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/05/21/1002105/covid-bot-twitter-accounts-push-to-reopen-america/|

In short, why did you call is doom porn? I don’t understand the context. I see it the other side doing it since they have done it forever. They are the anti-life party and they want us dead.

BarbD

(1,192 posts)
16. Knowledge is power.
Sat May 23, 2020, 01:27 PM
May 2020

It's very hard to find truth when even the experts have never seen this virus before.

But, the good science is all we've got.

zed nada

(60 posts)
20. Thank you for this survival porn..... (no sarcasm here)
Sat May 23, 2020, 02:18 PM
May 2020

Seriously, having been a teacher of biology for many years and sitting through much microbiology and epidemiology classes and symposia, I have been wondering when someone could get the cold bare facts to the rest of us. All the while as I watch my friends and neighbors seeming to unconsciously move closer to one another. This is the most likely I keep coming to after reading a history or two of things like the Spanish flu, Great Plague, etc.

Thank you again for telling the unvarnished truth about what is most likely to happen. Although I haven't read 'The Power of Positive Thinking' lately. I am sure it would've made me feel much better, for a little while...at least..

calimary

(81,210 posts)
25. Welcome to DU, zed nada!
Sat May 23, 2020, 03:04 PM
May 2020

"...the unforgiving math of epidemics."

Yep. Can't get around the numbers. Or the facts. Much as trump-world wants and wishes to.

zed nada

(60 posts)
27. thanks to Calimary......
Sat May 23, 2020, 03:52 PM
May 2020

Have been around awhile and have made a practice of not responding to something if I can resist it...just sometimes it is hard to ignore like in these times outrageousness is seemingly everywhere

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