General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe second wave is here, it is hitting scores of Trump counties across the country.
Maddow has been reporting about this. States like Georgia, Alabama, Florida, Texas, Arkansas, Iowa are having outbreaks all over the place. A Month from now it will probably peak and a lot of people are going to regret they spent all their time listening to liars.
As all the states reopen there is chance there will be outbreaks in all the states. The difference between how hard each state will get hit will probably be measured by, who has liars for leaders vs who has honest leaders. Which leaders put good plans in place vs those who did not.
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)We're starting halfway up the curve in terms of the number of cases. It is if we are now a mile away from the brick wall (instead of 20) and we pushed the pedal to the metal forgetting that once we shake off the intertia speed picks up extremely quickly. The number of cases will expand as if we never paused (and the 2 months of sacrifice will be tossed out the window).
gibraltar72
(7,503 posts)Mopar151
(9,979 posts)But Dahm! In "racin`" terms, it do'nt "put the power down" 'til "high gear"!
gibraltar72
(7,503 posts)Mopar151
(9,979 posts)When the shift to high gear, makes your eyes bigger than the launch, THAT"Stop end!
gibraltar72
(7,503 posts)Co owned one never wanted to drive crew chief was more my speed.
Mopar151
(9,979 posts)Power to weight ratio like an F-1 car, no downforce, no driveline inertia, no clutch, flywheel, battery, or starter. Pushing off and hot laps might be cool, but starting 24 cars, inverted, on a 1/4 mile track?? I need to stay out of the way!
gibraltar72
(7,503 posts)Quarter but mostly three eights occasional half.
LeftInTX
(25,245 posts)Our local capacity has always been really good. At first elective procedures were postponed, then they were added back in. I'm in county of 2 million, we currently have 73 Covid patients in hospitals, 41 are in ICU and 21 are on vents. In a nutshell we have plenty of hospital beds, ICU rooms and ventilators. Unfortunately, public health is often about hospital beds and it doesn't take personal suffering into account. It also doesn't take "future rates" into account. However, if resources seem to be trending in a negative direction, they can always appeal to the governor. But infection rates are going down where I live for the time being, so there isn't much the county can do. They would love to keep many establishments closed, but in Texas, the governor pre-empted any local orders.
Our county even voted for Vote By Mail for all voters, but the governor is taking all counties to court. VBM has been squashed by the Texas SC for now. It has also been put on hold by the US 5th Court of Appeals. The case will go to the USSC.
Horse with no Name
(33,956 posts)Hospitals and the ones that are there are for profit.
Not a very good mix.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,582 posts)The other red southern states wont be far behind.
machoneman
(4,006 posts)wnylib
(21,428 posts)won't stop people from dying, or, if they recover, it won't stop them from having permanent damage. And what about the more recent discovery that it IS killing children, too, but in ways not recognized until recently to be connnected with CV19 infection?
No matter what the hospital capacity is, any spreading of the infection is bad news. People will die. Children will die.
LeftInTX
(25,245 posts)See my response #53
Midnight Writer
(21,745 posts)LizBeth
(9,952 posts)I believe.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)jimfields33
(15,768 posts)Huge positives today!!!!
Yonnie3
(17,431 posts)Huge positives, where did you see that? New positives seem to be about the same for several weeks. 799 today and 813 yesterday.
jimfields33
(15,768 posts)Iowa has 262 and according to the OP is having a mess on their hands. I just go by numbers.
onecaliberal
(32,822 posts)The people in my city do not wear masks and many do not care about social distancing. Im in California 22.
CountAllVotes
(20,868 posts)I was talking to my friend in S.F. last night.
She was telling me abt. a street fair on Chestnut street last weekend.
Few worse masks and lots of touching and feeling stuff going on.
It ain't over. Nope.
We haven't seen anything *yet* IMO.
Just because dump says it is time to reopen regardless of the consequences is time to double up your safety precautions! That's right, DOUBLE UP NOW!
onecaliberal
(32,822 posts)Going near people. The southern states are about to get a good taste of the hoax.
CountAllVotes
(20,868 posts)My 84 year old husband is under protective custody (not that he'd have it any other way) via me!
He frightened me when he said, "They have a killer on their hands".
That did it for me! Haven't left the house since!
onecaliberal
(32,822 posts)Im definitely wearing the mask. I also had to go to a pharmacy yesterday to get replacement tubing for my sons nebulizer. Everyone was masked and socially distanced, plus they had plexiglass protection at the checkout. My husband is immunocompromised, so hes definitely not going out but I have to take every precaution. We are so lucky and fortunate that we can have our groceries delivered.
CountAllVotes
(20,868 posts)I went out a few weeks ago and loaded up on supplies; never again after that! Some guy was in the store with a mask dangling loose as he hacked away! Good god damn lordy!
I'm having every thing else delivered. It actually works out to my advantage with the cat litter from Target (better deal and no lifting for me).
The head pharmacist is personally delivering my medications to my house believe it or not! (!!).
*whew*
I can go on like this indefinitely if need be.
onecaliberal
(32,822 posts)Never there very long. Cant lose my job. Of course our healthcare is tied to the job. My husband is disabled and were terrified by what is happening in this city. Realizing your neighbors are fascists is a terrible thing.
CountAllVotes
(20,868 posts)I got that too. My fascist across the street still has his 9/11 flag out there every day as a reminder. Such a tRUMP loving arse. I'd never ask HIM or any member of his sh*tty household for anything much less HELP!
*sigh*
Take care and you have my condolences!
onecaliberal
(32,822 posts)CountAllVotes
(20,868 posts)I appreciate it!
Take care of you too!
wnylib
(21,428 posts)are like on the inside during a time of crisis.
There are anti shut-down protesters who show up for rallies not far from where I live. They protest about mask requirements, church and business closings, and all regulations. So next time they meet, I am going to get video of them to remind them and the whole community when this is over who it was that refused to take protective action.
onecaliberal
(32,822 posts)wnylib
(21,428 posts)I thought it was bad in my area because we have a Tea Party RWer for Congress. But, bad as he is, at least he's not Nunes.
onecaliberal
(32,822 posts)LizBeth
(9,952 posts)Upthevibe
(8,035 posts)Devin Nunes' district...so sorry. I've checked out the Democrat that's running against him, Phil Arballo.
greymattermom
(5,754 posts)Already, the virus is hitting rural areas more than urban areas in Georgia. This may be an urban-rural problem more than a red-blue state problem in the long run. There are very few hospitals in rural Georgia, and other states too.
wnylib
(21,428 posts)much harder than the rural ones. Population density exposes more people and spreads it faster.
mgardener
(1,816 posts)We are opening slowly. We had a small number of cases and 4 deaths in the county.
Last week we had 8 new cases and 28 quarantined due to a graduation party.
Vermont is starting to open. People from NYC will be coming to their summer places.
And when the border opens with Canada, we are 75 miles S of Montreal.
I expect we will see a lot more cases.
wnylib
(21,428 posts)not close enough to be a Buffalo suburb. I'm in a small city surrounded by rural dairy farms. Buffalo iand Rochester have lagged a little in time behind the NYC region, but are beginning to plateau. Our region just got the ok for stage 1 opening.
Too many people around here have been too careless about masks and social distancing. We are near a resort area and get tourist business in town so I expect our numbers to climb after this weekend of being open for the holiday that kicks off the summer tourist season.
I plan to lay low for the next several weeks.
dhol82
(9,352 posts)The second episode of the shitshow wont be until fall.
shockey80
(4,379 posts)A lot of states are reopening and many of them are not doing it in a safe way. Millions of Trump voters are unconditionally following liars to their deaths. We should know by the end of June how bad this wave is going to be.
CountAllVotes
(20,868 posts)He doesn't say much but when he does, it tends to mean something.
He said re: the stimulus checks, "They've got a killer on their hands".
Re: the reopening, "Just wait until early fall".
He's seen a lot in his 84 years so yes, I'm listening!
marybourg
(12,620 posts)wave that hit NYC and other urban areas earlier, while they just watched. Its their first wave.
demmiblue
(36,841 posts)wnylib
(21,428 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,369 posts)Just in time for Christmas.
matt819
(10,749 posts)You know, I dont think they will regret their actions.
There was a tweet the other day from a doctor trying save a guys life while the patient claimed it was a hoax. These people are beyond regret, and beyond redemption.
Beakybird
(3,332 posts)Illinois has
Wild West Wisconsin to the north (whose great governor was overruled by their nutty supreme court)
Iowa to the west
Missouri to the southwest
We share a tiny border with Kentucky whose great governor is grappling with unruly rednecks.
And Republican Indiana to the east
How can we stay safe with idiots traveling in and out?
roamer65
(36,745 posts)Id like to see MI do it.
erronis
(15,238 posts)Wisconsin and Iowa have long been beacons to me (when I was in Kansas) of forward-thinking governments.
Missouri and the other "southern" states never thought highly of an educated population.
Having lived across the river from Indiana in Louisville, KY, I know that there are pockets of good people surrounded by thumpers.
BComplex
(8,035 posts)Brainwashing these very sick and mostly stupid people, day after day, 24/7/365. Their tribal brains are just following the herd.
Initech
(100,063 posts)I'm convinced that no matter how many people die from this, or how far this virus spreads, the 41% who live by the Fox / Trump cult will die by the Fox / Trump cult.
Killing themselves to own the libs is their mantra.
gibraltar72
(7,503 posts)some were scheduled as late as June 15 I believe.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)to its first-wave peak expected in early June. Mobile hospital bed trailers, doctors, nurses, technicians, etc., have been brought in from other counties, with more expected.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,582 posts)A second wave would be measured as coming after the peak, and the regions you mentioned havent peaked, had a verifiable decline, followed by a second surge, have they?
My point is, the south/red/rural states had a delayed initial impact of the virus compared to the rest of the nation, are experiencing a surge of cases as the coastal areas are on the cusp of their second waves. The red states will get hammered by their current initial surge, and then will get hit again in the fall.
CountAllVotes
(20,868 posts)The edges popped a bit. Now the insides are starting to bust open.
They are indeed *next* and yes, they will learn real soon!
I don't wish death nor ill health on anyone ever. No.
erronis
(15,238 posts)of people that are profiteers/cons like that family.
CountAllVotes
(20,868 posts)They'll rot in their own self-made hell!
mnhtnbb
(31,382 posts)Before the coronavirus, people stood in line down the block to get in on weekends. Today, it was open at 7 am for the first time in weeks, and when I walked by with my dog at 7:05 am there were already people sitting at tables.
I texted my son to tell him. Said as much as I wanted their biscuits, I wouldn't be going. He told me they (he and his partner) aren't planning on going out to eat anytime soon.
We'll see. This is phase 2 of opening for NC.
CountAllVotes
(20,868 posts)Seems a load of people got exposed to someone there!
Full alert status now. They have no idea how many people may have had contact with someone that was apparently a worker at the Grill/store and has COVID-19! NO IDEA!
I am literally AFRAID to go outside as it is too close for comfort!
On edit: Just placed another order with the health food store online the other day. Damn good thing I did as supplies are running low *again*.
gristy
(10,667 posts)Only if restrictions are re-imposed so as to get R0 below 1 again.
It is very, very hard to get R0 below 1 with Covid-19.
Loosen restrictions as so many states are doing, and R0 is going to go back above 1.
relayerbob
(6,544 posts)CountAllVotes
(20,868 posts)n/t !!!!
Wounded Bear
(58,645 posts)and major mid-west cities which, coincidentally are the places where the major international airline hubs land.
dutch777
(3,013 posts)The openings are too early anyway you reason it, unless you don't really care about the death and misery toll. And sadly I think there are a lot of people including Prez Tweety who really just see the case/death numbers as an annoying statistic now. And now they are even trying to cook the numbers so they don't look quite so bad so the gullible dummies will venture out in the faint hope that it will all be okay and the economy can be revived. And it will only prolong the pain, suffering and make the length and depth of the economic damage worse.
I worked in hospital administration for over 10 years, just retired last summer. Nurses and doctors are very smart and very dedicated but they don't deal well with disorderly and uncontrolled situations for long. When we trained for an event "surge" it was a couple of days....not weeks and months. And they were quickly spent and started to make mistakes even in those relatively short durations. They have done their best with pitiful little support. The evening hand clapping, first responder lights/sirens drive by and flyovers by the Blue Angels are nice and I am sure heartfelt, but when you are afraid to go home for fear of infecting your family day after day, that wears on you in a way that few of us can even comprehend. A recent survey of 1000 nurses on their state of mind about their future in their chosen profession had 62% saying that due to this experience they are considering getting out of frontline nursing or leaving the profession entirely. As many have said, we don't send soldiers into battle without proper helmuts, gas masks and guns and with poor or no leaders but that it exactly what are asking the front line med people to do-- no vaccine or proper PPE to protect them, no drug treatment for the patients or themselves and no logical closely managed reasonable plan of action. Even in the well to do suburbs where my hospital is and with major tech giants in support we couldn't keep up with the need to hire doctors and nurses. That will only get worse now. And if you are those poorer hospitals in rural GA, TX and similar places that aren't Go To destinations for many professionals.
It is also still to be seen how the hospitals stay financially solvent. The hospital I know, a non-profit community hospital, as of about a month ago, had lost almost $100 million in revenue due to shut down of everything except ER, mother/baby and Covid related. They got $11 mil from the first CARES Act tranche, and were tracking excess costs that were Covid related but not supported by insurance payers and that stood at $15 mil and climbing with the rumor that FEMA was lining up to pay that "when its all over" (not in monthly payments or real time). Certainly some of the delayed hip replacements and such will come back for the needed treatment, but they can't all come back at once and probably a lot won't be back in the near term at all. Unless I really needed it I will be staying away from any medical environment until a vaccine has been administered to 80% or more of the population and it has had 90 days or more to take affect.
As others have said, this is the first inning of a very long tedious baseball game.
CountAllVotes
(20,868 posts)Welcome to the DU dutch777!
Excellent post!
I can sure understand the reality you point out so well happening all around us!
In fact, just heard from someone I know the other day that is suddenly having that hip replacement next week. What fine pre-op care she is receiving; I am impressed!!
Glad to know there are such fine people as yourself working in the midst of this pandemic!
I for one cannot say THANK YOU enough!
Take care!
CountAllVotes
Newest Reality
(12,712 posts)Good post.
Welcome aboard DU. Glad you joined.
erronis
(15,238 posts)The current federal government (executive/senate/judicial?) is actively supporting the opposing team.
Igel
(35,300 posts)Consider this (it's also the first thing I've posted this way, let's see if it works)
May 21 was a spike that presaged horrible things. Like Friday. Where the death toll dropped. We only hear "spikes"--assuming that a one-day increased must be a spike and not a random fluctuation (or, worse, part of a random fluctuation on top of a completely predictable weekly pattern).
May 15 showed that things were coming undone and we would all die a horrible death.
May 8 meant the end of civilization--to the extent Texans could claim to have any--in the state.
All those numbers meant that the loosening or relaxing of lockdown rules in Texas was a horrible idea.
4/29--deaths at 59 for the day--was an earlier "everybody in Texas is doomed" but it was during the lockdown.
And deaths lag infections by 20-25 days. So the 4/29 deaths were due to infections from around April 5. During the lockdown.
In fact, the May 8 and May 15 deaths also didn't result from loosening the lockdown.
Now, deaths did increase, but not that much, and the increase wasn't exponential. More testing did lead to increases in the numbers of positive results, but by now we should see a firm uptick in deaths to correspond to that catastrophic uptick in positive tests. That's how some tried to bill the one-day death "spike" on 5/21. (I'd use hospitalization data, but that's even harder to come by. I figure the death data are pretty consistent in any skew and can be used as proxy.)
This could change over the next week (but anything less than a 7-day moving average is ripe for misrepresentation). The past does not predict the future.
One wonders why, when there's a one-day spike of 63 deaths it's so utterly horrible and shows how rotten the state is but, on the same day when another state has 127 die (a smaller state, and that's pretty much the moving average on either side of that date) it's evidence as to how wonderfully that state's run.
Random outbreaks was the scenario predicted back in early March for when things were mostly calm. Fairly low rates everywhere but specific locations. Harbinger of doom? Only if the outbreaks aren't actually dealt with properly and are allowed to spread.
erronis
(15,238 posts)on an aggregated (weekly?) basis for some of the populations that you are showing.
My understanding of reports of death is that these considerably lag some other reporting. The US is remarkably deficient in how/when it reports these important events.
LeftInTX
(25,245 posts)Here is the link from the Department of Health
https://txdshs.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/ed483ecd702b4298ab01e8b9cafc8b83
Click Trends at the bottom of the link for data. Here's a screenshot, but it isn't interactive like the actual site
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,988 posts)LeftInTX
(25,245 posts)It fluctuates from day to day and I guess based on reporting (higher on weekdays) It seems last week it was going up, but this week it is going down. But the numbers aren't very high, so it is hard to see an actual trend. Overall, it appears the deaths are going up.
It is hard to see the actual trend.
Hospitalizations would be probably be a better gauge.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,988 posts)... other than the obvious one up.
You can see a flattening in Log charts long before you see one in Linear charts.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ See graphs below the spreadsheet.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
LeftInTX
(25,245 posts)The daily totals are about the same, yet still increasing, but is this truly a flattening? The rate of change isn't quite the same as a month ago. It is still increasing, but slowly.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,988 posts)I compare daily new cases (detected) and divide that by the number of active cases (detected).
1) Only active case cases can infect.
2) Detected cases / deaths are proxies for actual cases / deaths (some unknown multiplier).
This will find second waves in places that have a lot of recovered & dead cases.
On worldometers Yesterday button (for a complete days worth of data) I can sort the Active Cases column and then run down the New cases column looking for states/countries where the new cases is higher than nearby ones in the list. Then I can do the division on a few prominent states/countries found that way.
The US as a whole is running about 2% by that ratio, which is rather good and an indication that the PEOPLE are taking big precautions -- no help from the federal government.
When it gets to about 5%, that is a bit alarming. Texas has been running about 5%, and going by yesterday's figures, Louisiana is about 5%. Tennessee about 7%.
10% is a genuine outbreak. North Carolina, Mississippi, Wisconsin are about 9-10%. Minnesota is high, has been over 10% for a while.
Brazil is running about 15% and is blowing up on its first wave. Mexico is over 20%.
Ideally the data is smoothed by 3 day or 7 day running averages because there are jumps and dips that are from effects like weekend vs weekday.
Daily New Cases divided by Active Cases, as a percentage
LeftInTX
(25,245 posts)yaesu
(8,020 posts)well in humid environments, sun plays a role in immunity, so it might not be as bad this summer though time will tell.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)doing most of what we should be to stop it from building out of control.
Our first wave is having big ups and downs in various places for lack of coordinated national mitigation efforts. If I was a person of faith, a summer lull would definitely be on my list of things to pray for.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)SAR-COV-2 loves the low humidity, 60s temperatures that AC produces. In Florida, people seem to run their AC in the low 60s, even more suitable for SARS-COV-2.
It is hard to tell where this will head. My guess is national numbers drop because big cities seem to be getting a handle on how to reduce infections, rural areas and small cities will see increases in infections, but because so few people live there when compared to big cities, the net for a state will decline as long as the big city infection rates keep dropping. Big cities are almost 100% blue, which means more people are likely to follow protocols for preventing infection better, though there will be some knot-heads.
C Moon
(12,212 posts)CountAllVotes
(20,868 posts)paleotn
(17,911 posts)It burns down to coals, until you stir it a bit and put in another stick or two of firewood and ....poof! Fire's burning just like before.
barbtries
(28,787 posts)decide to continue social distancing. Nobody is forcing anyone into a church or a restaurant. Unfortunately so many people who do choose to do so will infect others in their family.
i feel as if it could be a year before I go out. I am in a vulnerable population and am afraid of this virus.
Tacan
(97 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)The second wave will start from a broad geographical platform, like the 1918 Flu second wave did. Also, watch out for mutations that make SARS-COV-2 incubate longer before detection is possible.
Brainfodder
(6,423 posts)We told them so!
DUH!
The consequences of morons for money over people!
gab13by13
(21,304 posts)but I think the second wave for the 1918 flu was worse than the first.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Some historical accounts say that the original virus mutated once it established itself in human hosts, becoming better at defeating the human body's natural defenses.
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)BTW, now there are more...
nitpicker
(7,153 posts)It mostly started off in the US in the areas around big-city airports with lots of international arrivals from Asia and Europe, and/or airports with direct connections to the former airports. ((Yes, outbreaks also did occur in ski country with jet-setters traveling in because climate change melted snow in their usual haunts, or just because they wanted to ski in the US.))
But then it started to get into the nursing homes and prisons. ((The staff there generally can't afford to shop at high-end grocery stores. If the CNAs and prison guards all shop at the local Walmart...))
((edit: and for the nursing homes, sending patients with hidden or "recovering" CV into them)) ((and unscreened intake into the prisons)
And now into the meat processing industry, ag workers, etc. Those activities (like the major prisons) are typically located in rural counties.
If I see a major jump in a county or state:
1. Did a backlog of tests just get cleared ((as it did in DC per the mayor))?
2. Does the locality have an outbreak at a food production place?
3. And/or a prison?
4. And/or have the authorities tested everyone in nursing homes?
If not, it might take time to find other potential causes, such as infected fast food workers, that beauty shop worker in MO ((just checked, now a second worker from the same shop tested positive)).
BUT if someone is wandering around trying to spread the virus (including unknowingly):
Are other people staying six feet away from "non-household" members? Are faces covered? Do they obsessively wash their hands, and include their bodies after every trip outside the home?
Unless there is a vulnerable person in the home, probably not the overuse of shampoo.
BUT there are reasons why the daily day-over-day increase percentage in cumulative positive cases has fallen from over 25% in a day in some states to under 5% for each state, unless reasons 1,2,3 or the results of a surge in testtaking apply.
The governors (mostly) did say "DO IT", BUT most of the people did do it.
By July 4, we shall see if the Memorial Day reopenings were the worst idea since rotten bread, or not.