I was so disgusted by the looting I saw in the Minneapolis Target store...

[Archae]

Someone wrote "Nothing says protest more than looting the store."

I agree.

There is *NO* fucking excuse for this.
None.

[RandiFan1290]

1. I'm more outraged by the thug pigs murdering people. nt

[Tipperary]

2. And stealing tvs, burning down people's workplaces will help exactly how?

Come on.

[Newest Reality]

27. If you had to choose...

Would you save material objects or a human life?

Which is more value, one human life or a Target store? Which is replaceable.

Won't Target recover somehow via insurance and write offs? Can a person recover from death? Will their friends and family be able to recover?

[Tipperary]

43. The story is now about looting and violence.

This just makes the magats feel justified.

[MichMan]

55. How many lives were saved by the looters?

[ehrnst]

108. +1000. (nt)

[Tipperary]

122. Sorry, that makes little sense.

Perhaps ask the two women I watched grab a cart to go “shop” amidst the rubble. Seems material things mean quite a bit to them.

[not_the_one]

124. You call that a legitimate question?

We've all been wronged in our lives, but it doesn't justify wholesale destruction of someone else's property who had nothing to do with it.

Stupid. Stupid. And people wonder why they aren't being listened to.

The same thing goes for the anarchists who somehow manage to burn and loot at every annual WTO protest. Indiscriminate violence and destruction does NOTHING to help ANYONE'S cause.

No, it is much more about people taking advantage of an opportunity to FUCK SHIT UP, just because they are greedy, selfish assholes. They don't give a damn about the community. They want to grab some FREE FUCKING SHIT.

[Demsrule86]

79. Injustice causes this sort of behavior. Why are the Cops not in jail. They clearly murdered a man?

Why did cops act so aggressively at the beginning of the protests?

[womanofthehills]

120. And police tasing people, firing rubber bullets randomly, and pepper spraying people

Will help exactly how?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

3. OMG that poor Target store

[Celerity]

6. It is the framing by the RW that it allows, NOT any remote sympathy for the Target store.

It takes away a lot of the goodwill for the protests and allow the Rethugs to take charge of the narrative to a vastly greater degree than they could have before the looting.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

12. Yes, the RW will frame anything and everything the way they want.

And would-be allies go right along with it. "I hate it when they start rioting; it makes it so hard for me to defend them." Okay, so do the work and dig into what the language of a riot is. Dig into the history of the MPS' abuses of the community. Many of us feel uncomfortable about looting and property damage because it wrecks things we hold dear -- I mean, and I say this with only a little irony, Target! -- which is why it happens. Because we listen to it.

[Nature Man]

15. They already hate black folk anyway

why the fuck should I care how the right wing frames anything?

(I agree with you).

[Celerity]

16. Arrest the coppers, give them a fair and speedy trial, and lock them up for life. Systemically

reform the Minneapolis police force, weed out the bad apples, redo policies of interaction with PoC.

Looting hurts the chances of this happening, and emboldens/enables the RW to manipulate the entire narrative.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

19. Status-quo reform simply increases the likelihood of another George Floyd.

[Celerity]

23. nothing I suggested was 'status-quo' reform nt

[WhiskeyGrinder]

25. An oppressive system cannot be reformed; imagining that it can be is upholding the status quo.

[Celerity]

32. So what do you propose then? Abolition of the police?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

33. Yes.

[Celerity]

47. That is not a tenable position. The US would instantly turn into a Mad Max dystopian nightmare with

tens of millions dead within a few years (many of them us PoC, FAR beyond the racism-driven slaughter of us going on now at the hands of bad coppers and civilian racists.)

[WhiskeyGrinder]

50. "Turn into."

The idea that cops are a thin blue line holding back the ravening hordes from pillaging civilized people is a lie. In many communities, as we know, cops do active harm to the community. The modern idea of a police force is rooted in two things: Hunting down people escaping slavery, and protecting private property -- private, not personal; it's for the moneyed interests. Like Target. It's impossible for a police force to reform its way out of a legacy designed to be oppressive. Any good people think it does can be done by other community organizations that have the funding police departments do.

[Celerity]

52. If this is the case (it's not) then why are there zero advanced nations (many staggering less brutal

than the US zeitgeist) than have abolished police forces?

Community groups simply are not capable of maintaining the peaceful rule of law. They lack the training and the infrastructure to do so. If you give them that, then all you have done to to remake a police force under a different title.

Also, private property is a fundamental right. If I want to start a lawful business, you can damn well be sure I want it protected and subject to the rule a law. Same for real estate I might own, etc etc.

This isn't a Mao Zedong inspired communist world (and look at how THAT failed, as in China you have trillions of USD in wealth under private control, with a plazzy veneer of 'State Ownership' offering cover.)

[WhiskeyGrinder]

54. Because it's a radical idea, and the status quo is invested in keeping the police around.

Community groups simply are not capable of maintaining the peaceful rule of law.

Neither, I would argue, are the cops.

They lack the training and the infrastructure to do so. If you give them that, then all you have done to to remake a police force under a different title.

But cops don't maintain the peaceful rule of law. They are the first responders in a contain-and-punish system designed to maintain the status quo, which is different.

Also, private property is a fundamental right. If I want to start a lawful business, you can damn well be sure I want it protected and subject to the rule a law. Same for real estate I might own, etc etc.

Fair enough. The leaders at Target feel the same way. So much so that the corporation operates its own criminal lab that is described as an "outsourced" arm to the Minneapolis Police Department. If you think the MPD has poor oversight, wait until you get a load of corporate cops!

This isn't a Mao Zedong inspired communist world (and look at how THAT failed, as in China you have trillions of USD in wealth under private control, with a plazzy veneer of 'State Ownership' offering cover.)

Not sure what Mao has to do with it, but okay.

[Celerity]

61. I mentioned Mao because communism is anti-private property (in theory, never practice)

But cops don't maintain the peaceful rule of law. They are the first responders in a contain-and-punish system designed to maintain the status quo, which is different.

This completely ignores the deterrence effect.

We are never going to agree, but if we ran on an 'abolish the police' platform, we would be lucky to end up with 5 or 6 Senators and less than 30 or so House Reps IMHO.

I am sure you will disagree and that is oki.

Nice chatting.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

65. There's actually little evidence that more cops leads to less crime, so deterrence isn't necessarily

a thing.

We are never going to agree, but if we ran on an 'abolish the police' platform, we would be lucky to end up with 5 or 6 Senators and less than 30 or so House Reps IMHO.

Police abolition will never be an electoral issue, as there's way too much money tied up in police union donations and lobbying for politicians to seriously consider it. In addition, as something that upends the status quo, it's a political third rail.

Nice chatting.

Thanks for sticking with me through it!

[ehrnst]

101. What is the alternative to police? To law enforcement?

The honor system?

Warlords?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

102. What keeps you from doing a crime?

[ehrnst]

104. No answer? Thought so.

I don't have the capacity or resources to investigate or a crime against committed against me, or detain a violent criminal. This isn't simply about the function of prevention, which isn't the primary function of the police, but nice attempt at derailing.

A society of warlords is the alternative, yes? How is that better? I find that white straight men are always the ones who think that an absence of institutions, flawed or otherwise, is preferable to reforming them. Of course they usually are the ones with the least to lose in a jungle rule capitalist society run by social Darwinists.

I suppose you think Trump should also be exempt from being investigate, arrested and processed via a criminal justice system?

You think men like him would benefit or have a disadvantage in the absence of investigators and law enforcement? Laws mean nothing without enforcement and consequences....

[Tipperary]

88. Funny, just a few days ago duers were gleefully recounting their calls to turn in their neighbors.

For partying, not social distancing,etc. It is so hard to keep up here sometimes. Seemed everyone was on the phone to the cops to turn someone in.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

90. You can be sure I was not among them.

DU contains multitudes, indeed.

[Nature Man]

22. You might not have noticed

1. RW hates black folk anyway, even on Sunday morning. regardless of ANYTHING. Their take on "The Narrative" is spoiled and rotten from the roots all the way up.

2. "Police Reform" is a joke, the role of the police is a leftover from slavery times.

3. The only way things will ever change is to make white people fear the repercussions of their racist actions. Talking, understanding, and patience haven't worked since the end of the Civil War.

[Celerity]

30. completely disagree, as a PoC myself, and you offer nothing of true import, other than some vague

The only way things will ever change is to make white people fear the repercussions of their racist actions.

What do you think locking up the coppers for life is? It most definitely is a start, and needs to be built upon.

I NEVER said anything about

Talking, understanding, and patience

that is YOUR injection in an attempt to try and false frame my words

also

"Police Reform" is a joke, the role of the police is a leftover from slavery times.

so what are you saying?

abolition of police?

good luck with that if that is what you mean

I said SYSTEMIC overhauling of the police department, not some toothless symbolic reform.

[The Magistrate]

66. That 'Police Are Inherited From Slavery', Ma'am, Is One Of Those Tiresome Half-Truths

Which people repeat to themselves as a sort of charm to avoid thought.

It is true that in the South of the country, patrolling to regulate the movement of slaves was an early institution with some similarity to a police force.

The principal root of modern police, however, grew out of night watch and constables in urban centers, and did so all over the world. The first police body in the United States in which the outlines of a modern police force can be discerned was formed in Boston early in the nineteenth century. Boston was at the time the center of abolitionist sentiment in the country.

It might be more accurate to say that modern policing has inherited the idea of 'inherent Negro savagery' from views held at the South both during and after the abolition of slavery. In northern states, blacks were a small proportion of the population prior to the Civil War. As black people began to move more freely, and many sought relief from the terrorism of the first wave of the Klu Klux Klan and the subsequent horrors of lynch law, the black population of northern states grew. What passed for 'science' at the time, both regarding criminality and race, viewed this as an influx of potential savages, who would need to be kept in check. This largely unexamined root of police behavior is not inherent to policing, nor has its institutionalization in modern policing still much direct connection with the old 'slave patrollers' of Antebellum days. It would certainly be possible to root out this institutional bias in the direction of police effort, were the attempt to be seriously made.

The question of whether police are meant to protect property, or the life and limb of the citizenry, may be left for another time....

[Celerity]

74. thank you Sir, much more well put than my attempts to say something similar

[brer cat]

77. +++ nt

[ehrnst]

106. +1000. (nt)

[JustAnotherGen]

111. I'm a black American who descends from enslaved Americans

Not a person of color - and I agree with what the poster is saying.

Well meaning people said "Let's bring the foreign enemy back into the fold, and all is forgiven" after the Civil War.

They (the people who cling to their white supremacy) have had 155 years to get right with themselves.

They can't seem to do it.

The rage is real - and the chickens are coming home to roost. Heaven help us all.

"Heaven help the people with their back against the wall"

[Celerity]

127. I am the descendant of enslaved people as well (enslaved West Africans from Barbados), and thus part

black too. I am also many other ethnicities as well, so I often use the catchall PoC terminology. As a 'black American' you are also a person of colour. Do you take offence at that nomenclature?

[ehrnst]

107. What is the alternative to law enforcement?

Social Darwinism?

Warlords?

What use are laws with no enforcement?

[JustAnotherGen]

117. Point 1

This is true. Look at how they treated Obama. They are evil. They will ALWAYS find a way to discredit the descendants of the enslaved - AND - those black folks who came here after the Civil War.

2. If all of these years AFTER Rodney King this reform needs to be done? Then why would I trust ANY reform efforts? LEO have to get out of their OWN god damned way. Dissolve their unions and start making them carry liability insurance. They only understand ONE thing - their personal bottom line. When cities stop paying and it's job that has a liability at the level physicians do - then they will think twice. We've made it too easy on them.

As Julian Castro said - de-certify them. You can NEVER be a police officer again.

3. Agree. Financially hit them with EVERYTHING we've got. I'm glad that woman in Central Park lost her job AND her dog. She's a vicious evil you know what and deserved it.

[Tipperary]

44. This.

[Bengus81]

56. So...you think Target Corp supports the murder that happened by that cop?

Their no doubt as outraged as we are, they sure as HELL didn't deserve what happened to their store.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

59. I try to avoid the idea of "deserve." Does it deserve to get a pass for its rampant union-busting?

I do know that particular Target store is unloved by the community for its poor stocking, tyrannical managers and experimental surveillance practices.

[Bengus81]

99. Love your diversion from my post but no worry's now about that store and it's manager

How many working there woke up today to no job?

[ehrnst]

113. Does that make it acceptable to loot it?

Is there a list somewhere of businesses, large or small that are 'deserving' of looting?

Please share.

[USALiberal]

35. Wow, you think looting helps the issue? Seriously? nt

[WhiskeyGrinder]

36. What issue?

[USALiberal]

41. See, you don't know the issue! nt

[WhiskeyGrinder]

42. I see several; I'm curious which one you're focused on.

[ehrnst]

114. Unsubtle evasion...

[Goodheart]

84. Seriously, I don't want people like you in the Democratic Party

Making excuses for thug behavior is not where we should be.

[geardaddy]

143. Hmm, thug behavior?

Thugs are what MPD are. Inciting rioting by pepper spraying people and shooting rubber bullets at them.

[geardaddy]

142. +1

People are pissed and I don't give a shit about the Target store. They have insurance.

[SamKnause]

4. It doesn't bother me one bit.

I am surprised they haven't burnt this entire country down.

The country would deserve it.

They have been ignored, marginalized, beaten, terrorized and murdered.

Nothing changes.

When you can murder someone while a crowd watches, something needs to be done !!!!!!!!

Has anything changed since Eric Garner ???

Why did it take so long for the truth about Ahmaud Arbery to come to light ???

The corrupt cops had the tape from day one.

This country is a racist corrupt shithole.

[mountain grammy]

121. Agree!

[tman]

5. It only helps the powers that be

Including Trump.

[kevink077]

7. Looters are Horrible people

Cowards that are exploiting this mans death to hurt innocent people and businesses are evil and disgusting. No defense for it. None.

[tavernier]

76. Yup.

If they burned the place to the ground then it would be an act of anger and protest. But looting is just an excuse for theft.

[phylny]

8. I agree.

There's no excuse. It helps nothing, and only hurts.

[zanana1]

9. But it got your attention, didn't it? That's the point.

[The Magistrate]

57. People Were Already Paying Attention, Ma'am

Paying attention to the murder of a black man by a police officer.

Turning people's attention to the looting of a business detracts from the attention paid to the murder of a black man by a police officer.

[zanana1]

62. It would have been forgotten in a few weeks, sir.

That's what usually happens in cases like this. Even if the officer(s) are fired and even convicted, the punishment is mild or nonexistent.

[The Magistrate]

70. So Will Those Fires, Ma'am

They will likely be recalled a little longer, having occurred subsequently, and so overlaying the original outrage noticed, and they will serve to cloud the question of murder by police by giving grounds for belief police may need to use extreme means to maintain order, and make it easy to see the murder as not a criminal outrage but an unfortunate byproduct of a social need.

[zanana1]

72. If I say "You win", will you feel better?

[miyazaki]

95. I think you have to add "sir".

[zanana1]

100. LMAO!

[The Magistrate]

112. I Feel Fine Either Way, Ma'am

It's a quite curious response to disagreement on a public forum.

[phylny]

133. Shoot, my attention hasn't been diverted AWAY from this atrocity.

I didn't need more violence and looting to remind me, "Hey, an innocent Black man was murdered by police."

[sunonmars]

10. Does not help their cause and gives Trump room to pull shit.

[Nature Man]

26. All y'all must be reading the same playbook

[sunonmars]

97. and you are just repeating the same line over and over, we all have opinions, stop spamming us.

[ehrnst]

109. What "playbook" would that be? MLKs? Ghandi's?

[tonedevil]

131. This MLK?

But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention.

And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity.

[obamanut2012]

11. I'm sure you were n/t

[Nature Man]

13. All I see in these types of threads is:

1. People who have never been forced to lay on the ground during a routine traffic stop for no good reason and then have the contents of your vehicle scattered roadside.

2. People who never have been asked by the police "is this your car?" before I hand them registration that they see in my hand right before I give it to them.

3. People who have never been called "nigger" or "boy" by hot-tempered white cops.

4. People who never have been physically assaulted while handcuffed.

5. People who never had to drink out of the "COLORED" fountain.

I remember a time before cell phone cameras and police body cams.

They're just getting caught now, but these motherfuckers have been doing the same shit since slavery times.

Property can be replaced. Black Lives Matter.

[jimfields33]

20. You are absolutely right

What happens if autozone and target decides not to rebuild? The citizens lose out. There’s always a call out to businesses to build in communities that have food deserts and lack of other stores.

[phylny]

132. Not to mention the many people hanging on to employment by a thread

during this pandemic who have lost their jobs because their place of employment has been gutted by looters.

[Newest Reality]

21. +1000

[zanana1]

63. Truth.

[ehrnst]

110. Why was looting necessary?

What "playbook" is that from?

[VOX]

126. There's no playbook for decades of bottled-up, justifiable rage.

No one wants to see things collapse into complete lawlessness, but it happens when an entire segment of the population has been kept down and treated like dirt for hundreds of years in this country.

Time after time after time, African Americans have been subjected to brutal treatment, including numerous documented instances of outright murder, by predominately white law enforcement.

When the anger at such unaddressed mistreatment reaches a boiling point, some citizens just don’t care what happens to them— because they know they’ll be mistreated (or even killed) whether they break the law or not. It’s like a community commuting suicide out of rage.

The phenomenon of “looting” during a full-scale riot is nothing new. It happened when many major cities burned after Martin Luther King, Jr. was murdered. It happened in Los Angeles after the cops who savagely beat Rodney King were found innocent of any wrongdoing. It comes with having nothing left to lose.

[ehrnst]

129. Looting is not civil disobedience. MLK didn't condone as such.

And while I understand the roots of anger, looting sets back any public statement that is being made with the protest.

You can agree, that's not a good thing, right?

[Alpeduez21]

14. At least you're paying attention to what's important

[Nature Man]

17. "Concerned" white folk do this EVERY time

the oppression becomes a bit too much for we OTHER folks.

[uponit7771]

68. +1, if the oppressed aren't perfect then their cause is distracted from

[sop]

24. "No Justice, No Peace, No Hope"

The lake of dead black children that America created
Is getting fuller than the founding Fathers even wanted
The ghost of great America was underestimated
And now it rages like a cold sore on the lip of this dumb nation
Again we've slipped inside a pit of absolute despair
That's where we live
I used to comfort myself with the myth of good intention
I can't believe that I believed that goodness was inherent
The liars lying constantly, post-truth, post-everything
Some denied humanity, most at least fucked over
Leaders led by nothing-men, dick-first into oblivion
The civil war didn't just begin, they've been blowing us to pieces
Rewarding our worst cruelty, they destroyed our shared reality
And now they upsell us our dignity like some fucked VIP package
Again we've slipped inside a pit of absolute despair
That's where we live
Now
Again we've slipped inside a pit of absolute despair
That's where we live
Until we don't

No Justice
No Peace
No Hope

By Sean-Claude Bonnette

[Owl]

28. I agree.

[beachbumbob]

29. pent up anger. years of watching black men murdered by cops with no repercussions across America,

I can't condone the violence and looting buts 100% understandable. The inequality and racism of America is never more apparent then when law enforcement is given a free pass to murder black men and kids, openly.

[Chainfire]

31. I don't blame the rioters a damn bit

They are using the only tool in their tool box to get attention. They are marginalized as a race, they are under attack, they have no voice and they are mad as hell.

[USALiberal]

37. I 100% agree, it takes away from the police and makes the story about stealing. nt

[qwlauren35]

38. I would rather

if they went to the home of the cop who killed Floyd and burned it to the ground. If you're going to destroy something, make it count.

[KG]

39. I lulz'd

concern / noted

lest we forget, their brief peaceful protests were immediately met with tear gas and rubber bullets.

[demmiblue]

40. An interesting essay that was tweeted today by DeRay Mckesson (long read):

In Defense of Looting

For most of America’s history, one of the most righteous anti-white supremacist tactics available was looting.

As protests in Ferguson continued unabated one week after the police killing of Michael Brown, Jr., zones of Twitter and the left media predominantly sympathetic to the protesters began angrily criticizing looters. Some claimed that white protesters were the ones doing all of the looting and property destruction, while others worried about the stereotypical and damaging media representation that would emerge. It also seems that there were as many protesters (if not more) in the streets of Ferguson working to prevent looting as there were people going about it. While I disagree with this tactic, I understand that they acted out of care for the struggle, and I want to honor all the brave and inspiring actions they’ve taken over the last weeks.

Some politicians on the ground in Ferguson, like alderman Antonio French and members of the New Black Panther Party, block looting specifically in order to maintain leadership for themselves and dampen resistance, but there are many more who do so out of a commitment to advancing the ethical and politically advantageous position. It is in solidarity with these latter protesters–along with those who loot–and against politicians and de-escalators everywhere that I offer this critique, as a way of invigorating discussion amongst those engaged in anti-oppression struggle, in Ferguson and anywhere else the police violently perpetuate white supremacy and settler colonialism. In other words, anywhere in America.

• • •

The dominant media is itself a tool of white supremacy: it repeats what the police deliver nearly verbatim and uncritically, even when the police story changes upwards of nine times, as it has thus far in the Brown killing. The media use phrases like “officer-involved shooting” and will switch to passive voice when a black man is shot by a white vigilante or a police officer (“shots were fired”). Journalists claim that “you have to hear both sides” in order to privilege the obfuscating reports of the state over the clear voices and testimony of an entire community, members of which witnessed the police murder a teenager in cold blood. The media are more respectful to white serial killers and mass murderers than to unarmed black victims of murder.

And yet, many of the people who perform this critique day-in, day-out can get jammed up by media perceptions of protesters. They want to correct the media’s assertion that protesters were all looters for good reason: the idea of black people looting a store is one of the most racially charged images in the white imaginary. When protesters proclaim that “not all protesters were looters, in fact, most of the looters weren’t part of the protest!” or words to that effect, they are trying to fight a horrifically racist history of black people depicted in American culture as robbers and thieves: Precisely the image that the Ferguson police tried to evoke to assassinate Michael Brown’s character and justify his killing post facto. It is a completely righteous and understandable position.

https://thenewinquiry.com/in-defense-of-looting/

[dalton99a]

80. +1. Modern American police forces evolved out of fugitive slave patrols

The mystifying ideological claim that looting is violent and non-political is one that has been carefully produced by the ruling class because it is precisely the violent maintenance of property which is both the basis and end of their power. Looting is extremely dangerous to the rich (and most white people) because it reveals, with an immediacy that has to be moralized away, that the idea of private property is just that: an idea, a tenuous and contingent structure of consent, backed up by the lethal force of the state. When rioters take territory and loot, they are revealing precisely how, in a space without cops, property relations can be destroyed and things can be had for free.

White people deploy the idea of looting in a way that implies people of color are greedy and lazy, but it is just the opposite: looting is a hard-won and dangerous act with potentially terrible consequences, and looters are only stealing from the rich owners’ profit margins. Those owners, meanwhile, especially if they own a chain like QuikTrip, steal forty hours every week from thousands of employees who in return get the privilege of not dying for another seven days.

And the further assumption that the looter isn’t sharing her loot is just as racist and ideological. We know that poor communities and communities of color practice more mutual aid and support than do wealthy white communities—partially because they have to. The person looting might be someone who has to hustle everyday to get by, someone who, by grabbing something of value, can afford to spend the rest of the week “non-violently” protesting. They might be feeding their family, or older people in their community who barely survive on Social Security and can’t work (or loot) themselves. They might just be expropriating what they would otherwise buy—liquor, for example—but it still represents a material way that riots and protests help the community: by providing a way for people to solve some of the immediate problems of poverty and by creating a space for people to freely reproduce their lives rather than doing so through wage labor.

Modern American police forces evolved out of fugitive slave patrols, working to literally keep property from escaping its owners. The history of the police in America is the history of black people being violently prevented from threatening white people’s property rights. When, in the midst of an anti-police protest movement, people loot, they aren’t acting non-politically, they aren’t distracting from the issue of police violence and domination, nor are they fanning the flames of an always-already racist media discourse. Instead, they are getting straight to the heart of the problem of the police, property, and white supremacy.

[Lars39]

45. Did I miss your OP about the racist cop murdering George Floyd?

[Dial H For Hero]

46. It's a bad response to a terrible crime.

[milestogo]

51. Somehow I doubt that the people looting stores are anything more than crass opportunists.

[Cirque du So-What]

48. Oh, the material goods!

Will no one think of the material goods?

[phylny]

134. And someone's job. In fact, many people's jobs.

[Cirque du So-What]

138. Don't forget the stockholders

Will no one think of the stockholders and their profits or losses?

[phylny]

140. That's not my point.

There are people who worked in those stores, even mom & pop stores, who will have no jobs to go back to.

My assumption is that you can easily see the difference between a minimum-wage earner and a stockholder worried about profit and loss.

[Cirque du So-What]

141. I feel for those people too

Ultimately, my greatest concern is for those members of the community who live in fear of imminent death at the hands of law enforcement. If authorities are unwilling to hold bad actors accountable, people will do what is necessary to get their attention. Not saying I condone violence against property...but I understand.

[Johnny2X2X]

49. It's unfortunate, but understandable

I get it, there is no acceptable way for minorities to protest in this country. Kneeling for the national anthem will lose you your job and cause outrage. Yesterday's mostly peaceful march was met with riot gear and tear gas. So what's left? So they rioted and looted, society is lucky that's all they are doing because they could be arming and organizing themselves, that would be a rational response too.

[TheCowsCameHome]

53. Agree, Archae

Cleaning out an Auto Zone has nothing to do with this travesty by the Minneapolis cops.

[MineralMan]

58. You have identified your priorities quite clearly.

I understand who you are better now.

[MaryMagdaline]

60. None of our cringing and hand wringing have done any good at all

The police in this country continued to murder black people. Riots are the only thing that cops fear. Maybe this will sink down to street cops who will say “don’t kneel on that man or we’re going to have riots.” Or maybe cities will insist on strict hiring policies to weed out white supremacist sadistic cops so that the “liability” risks of the city will go down.
Or maybe, cringing white people will vote once again for a strong justice department to clean up law enforcement and to withhold tax payer money from cities whose cops are out of control.

Do you really expect people to watch their neighbors get murdered time and time again and not to blow a gasket? If this were Britain, France or Ireland, this whole place would be on fire.

[ehrnst]

105. Looting is something quite different than rioting. (nt)

[BusyBeingBest]

64. Feel sad that a legitimate protest devolved into that--

yes, I know most protestors probably weren't looting/destroying stuff, but it turns public opinion against them regardless.

[Dial H For Hero]

67. Now there's at least one shooting death.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/man-shot-dead-amid-violent-george-floyd-protests-in-minneapolis-2020-05-28

A man was shot dead outside of a Minneapolis pawn shop Wednesday night as violent protests over the death of George Floyd rattled the city, authorities said.

Minneapolis cops are investigating reports that the victim was a looter shot dead by an owner of the business, police department spokesman John Elder said at press briefing early Thursday.

The man was found with a gunshot wound outside of Cadillac Pawn and Jewelry on East Lake Street near Bloomington Avenue at about 9:25 p.m. local time, Elder said.

[zanana1]

69. Since when is it legal to kill somebody for looting?

[Dial H For Hero]

71. The details of the story are very sparse.

The pawn shop owner may have been in legitimate fear of his life. He may not have been. At this point, we don't know.

[CJustice]

83. I would

If I’m an innocent business owner and looters come running into my shop to destroy my livelihood I’d do the same. They are investigating and we aren’t certain yet though.

[demmiblue]

85. ...

[zanana1]

87. You have five posts!

Congratulations! No, we aren't certain yet, but you outed yourself with your message.

[roamer65]

89. ...and you would be subject to prosecution for murder.

Even if you get out of the criminal prosecution, you will lose the civil case.

[obamanut2012]

115. lolz

You are just precious! No, really and sincerely.

[JCMach1]

73. Thoughts and prayers for Target Corp.

A man was summarily executed for 8m and the perpetrators are walking around.

While it's unfortunate, I have absolutely 0 disgust given the heavy-handed police tactics used against what were at first peaceful protests.

[malaise]

75. I'm outraged at the non-stop killing of black people

and the racism. Fuck this shit

[Demsrule86]

81. Me too...and cops escalated it in the beginning with hard core tactic against protesters.

[malaise]

82. Precisely

[roamer65]

91. Exactly. Start treating everyone equally.

It isn’t really that difficult, folks.

NO ONE should be choked to death for supposedly passing a counterfeit $20 bill.

If it were a white guy, they would have let him go with a slap on the wrist.

[Demsrule86]

78. Had the cops been arrested, I doubt it would have happened. But a Black man was executed

by White cops and no one is in jail. It is understandable that people in the community are angry. Is the rioting helpful? No. But consider the police were quick to use tear gas and others riots stuff on the protestors...and that wasn't wise either. White people show up with guns and are treated with kid gloves by the authorities...Black people are basically beat down and murdered. It has to end.

[Aristus]

86. I don't understand.

Did they kneel on the store's neck? Is the store dead?

I have only so much outrage, and I've had to ration it for the last four years. I'm pretty sure this stuff wouldn't happen if cops weren't getting away with non-judicial murder. Yes, I know they were fired, but if that's where it ends, they still got away with murder.

"Protest peacefully, then!" the assholes of this broken country will say.

So they kneel (irony...) peacefully, solemnly, respectfully, during the national anthem, and right-wing America goes berserk with a histrionic display of prime-time ready pseudo-patriotism.

They don't want black people to protest because they don't want black people to exist!

[greenjar_01]

93. Boo-fuckin'-hoo

[sarisataka]

94. I know a dozen people,

two of them are relatives, who no longer have jobs this morning. Their place of employment was looted to the walls and/or burned to the ground. Not a single one of them would check the 'White, non-Hispanic' box on a demographic form.

But I guess the police were really taught a lesson last night

[ibegurpard]

98. Looters, rioters, and vandals

Are opportunistic bottom-feeders who rush in to take advantage of chaos. They always appear in these situations. They can and should be condemned. But they are not protestors. While I'm sure that some of the people who protested ended up engaging in these crimes we cannot conflate the two. And ultimately the chaos was caused by police executing an unarmed and restrained black man with no fear of retaliation ... as has happened over and over again with little recourse.

[Marrah_Goodman]

103. It just doesn't help the situation

But what did the cops expect? Those thugs should have been arrested for murder right away.

[StarfishSaver]

116. I'm over listening to people lecture marginalized people how they should protest

Telling them what does and doesn't "help their cause" also does nothing to "help their cause."

If you are really interested in providing help, instead of lecturing them, why don't YOU get out in the street and join the protests. And if that's not possible, at least stop undermining them by using the same talking points the very people they're protesting use.

But by going on social media to criticize them is not helping their cause, either.

[Politicub]

118. If you deprive people of their political and institutional power for

all of their and their ancestors’ lives, then you reap the whirlwind.

Institutional racism is real. The people are not seeing equality in how justice is applied. Damn right that they have a reason to be angry.

Rioting is a symptom of institutional bigotry; it is not the disease.

[aikoaiko]

119. When there is chaos in policing chaos spills out all over.

This is not a statement of support for looters, but rather a statement about the importance of maintaining control over our police offices and policing policies so that police don't generate more pain and chaos.

Someday people are going to fight back the police in the most physical ways possible unless we start putting them in jail for unlawful homicides.

[Initech]

123. I'm reminded of the scene from Futurama:

"Come Bender, we must take to the streets!"
"Is this the boring, peaceful kind of taking to the streets?"
"No! The kind with looting, and maybe starting a few fires!"
"YES!!! In your face Ghandi!"

[maxsolomon]

125. Looting is an expression of outrage from oppressed people all over the planet

Throughout all of history.

Cause and effect.

[ehrnst]

130. Protest and looting/rioting are differnent things

You may argue about what their roots are, and if it's justified but looting weakens the message of the protest, which was the point.

See also: MLK and non-violent protest and what it accomplished.

[maxsolomon]

135. Even MLK and Ghandi fell short of their ideals. Jesus, too.

Non-violent protest occurred side-by-side with violent protest in the Civil Rights movement. Neighborhoods burned.

Perfection cannot be the standard, but in Binary-thoughts-only America, it appears to be.

[ehrnst]

137. Binary thinking is the idea that can't both criticize looting & be an ally & support the protest.

[maxsolomon]

145. Yeah, that is not Binary Thinking

.

[Brainfodder]

128. Entitlement disease trickles down?

[intheflow]

136. Nothing says white privilege more than condemning

black people's behavior after literally centuries of public lynchings.

Then, too, there's this:

Link to tweet

[Shiv]

139. A seperate, smaller concern more worthy of condemnation

For me is the law enforcement and public officials that so lost control of and bungled their announcements about a situation that, not under any direct knowledge but as it has been a goal of professional agitators taking advantage of events before and worries me here, persons who knew what they were looking for had a chance to get in and take secure equipment that has all sorts of unimaginable misuses it could be used or sold to others who would use. The obligation to protect and serve wasn't just undermined in a short term way by their failures in this instance. Things would have to be much worse than this for anyone to want that sort of hardware taken out of hands that are supposed to be trustworthy with it.

I don't mean weapons. Radios, evidence, computer hard drives.. there are a lot of possibilities.

It is very true things shouldn't have to come to this.

[EX500rider]

144. "surveillance policies geared toward poor people" Actually geared against theft.

They don't care how much you make, only if you want to steal from their store. And they know which stores have the most stock loss and probably start there.

[hunter]

146. Our local Target is open this morning, but the WalMart is not.

The front doors of the WalMart have been fortified with stacks of empty pallets, completely covering them, and the cars of private security guards are parked in front of those.

There haven't been any violent protests or looting in our California city.