Do the events of the last week force Biden to pick an African American woman as VP?

[Dem4Life1102]

I'm thinking that he might have to now. Thoughts?

[Iliyah]

1. No . .

[empedocles]

2. No

[dsc]

3. It might by eliminating other choices

NV Senator Cortez said no, Whitmer's husband broke her own lock down rules, and Klobuchar's record on this issue is not good. On the other hand both Harris and Val Demings stock have gone up. I still could see an outside the box choice but at this point I think it is Warren, Harris, or Congresswoman Demings most likely.

[Dem4Life1102]

5. Harris and Warren are from solid Blue state

Demings is from a swing state. Plus Harris' record as a prosecutor may work against her with progressives and African Americans. As an African American posted told me in another thread:

Whether they are valid charges or pure bullshit, her actions toward AA defendants
pose a massive problem for her. Even if it was just a situation where she simply didn't develop strong ties to the AA community, but was fair in her legal proceeding, the situation raises big problems in places like Florida, Georgia, Philadelphia where AA are not familiar with her and where purposely vile innuendo can be used to maximum effect against her and Biden. Even AA that have never been the subject of police misconduct or arrested will react negatively to the charge that she is alleged to have been less than even-handed in dealing out Justice, given the overall history of my ethnic group in being treated fairly in that area. Pete Buttigieg suffered from the same problem, and I argue that was much more an issue than his sexuality among AA, that problem was the perception and eventually the charge that he was deaf to the needs of the AA community in South Bend when it came to policing and community outreach.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=13480288

[Andy823]

10. You do know

the Governor of Massachusetts is a republican, right? We don't want to lose a Senate seat, and Harris's seat "will" be replaced with another Democrat for sure.

Harris is the most likely VP pick, and she will make a fine VP.

[Dem4Life1102]

13. She doesn't help to flip a swing state

neither does Warren. Plus Harris has issues from her time as a prosecutor. Doubt it will be either of them.

[Celerity]

38. Demings has police/racial justice issues too, plus a bad anti-immigrant vote (Kate's Law)

Deming's background as the Police Chief of a very problematic police department also doesn't exactly scream 'the time is perfect.'

The Orlando PD had a lot of issues similar to the Minneapolis PD. If people are banging (very unfairly I think) Harris (think that bullshit 'Kamala is a cop' meme, the one that the radical left was hard pushing) for her DA and AG past, well Demings actually was a cop, and the chief one in Orlando.

This will get attention, rightly or wrongly so.

She also was one of only a handful of Democrats to vote for the Trumpian anti-immigrant Kate's Law, which will not go down well with many in the Latinx community. She also was one of only 55 and 65 Democrats to vote for the renewal of the FISA Act and expansion that gives the government the ability to read your emails and IM's without a warrant. She voted for it again in 2019.

Finally, she has only been a House Representative for 3 and half, years, she has no other elective office experience, other than a losing House campaign in 2012.




Orlando Police Complaints in the Spotlight as African-American Ex-Chief Runs for Congress

Val Demings has unique appeal as an African-American former police chief running for Congress. But the department she ran has a history of excessive-force complaints now coming under scrutiny.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/orlando-police-complaints-in-the-spotlight-as-african-american-ex-chief-runs-for-congress/443526/

snip

First, though, she will have to navigate the complicated national dialogue on police brutality and criminal justice, a conversation that has changed dramatically since Democrats first tapped the tough-on-crime Demings as a candidate for higher office. When Demings first ran for Congress in 2012, discussion of her tenure leading the OPD tended to start and stop at one statistic: a 43.6 percent drop in violent crime from 2007 to 2011, according to FBI reports. But over the last year, a string of highly publicized shootings and violent arrests of African Americans by police has changed the criteria that voters and the media use to judge officeholders on law enforcement.

The growing focus on police misconduct highlights less agreeable aspects of Demings’s time helming the Orlando Police Department from 2007 to 2011. The department has a long record of excessive-force allegations, and a lack of transparency on the subject, dating back at least as far as Demings’s time as chief. From 2010 to 2014, the department paid out more than $3.3 million in damages following at least 47 lawsuits alleging false arrest, excessive force, and other complaints against the department’s officers, according to WFTV. (Records about these cases and other allegations of police misconduct in Orlando are not centrally housed or publicized, and some lawsuits are still outstanding.)

snip


Back in 2008, an Orlando Weekly expose described the Orlando Police Department as “a place where rogue cops operate with impunity, and there’s nothing anybody who finds himself at the wrong end of their short fuse can do about it.” Demings responded defensively: “Looking for a negative story in a police department is like looking for a prayer at church,” she wrote in an Orlando Sentinel op-ed. “It won't take long to find one.”

In the same op-ed, Demings cast doubt on video evidence that conflicted with officers’ statements in excessive force cases, writing, “a few seconds (even of video) rarely capture the entire set of circumstances.” The excessive-force complaints continued throughout Demings’s tenure. In 2010, an officer flipped an 84-year-old man upside down and broke his neck after the man became belligerent. Demings initially said “the officer performed the technique within department guidelines,” but a federal jury later disagreed, awarding the victim $880,000 in damages.

snip

[Dem4Life1102]

41. Only been in Congress 3 1/2 years???

Isn't that the same amount of time Harris has been in Congress? And the same amount of time that Obama was in Congress when he ran for President?

And didn't Demings flip a long time GOP district in Florida in 16, not 18 but 16, while Harris won in a solid blue state where a coffee mug running as a Democrat could win?

[Celerity]

44. Harris was the elected AG of a 35 to 40 million person state starting in 2010. As for

And didn't Demings flip a long time GOP district in Florida in 16

No


Florida's 10th Congressional District election, 2016

https://ballotpedia.org/Florida%27s_10th_Congressional_District

Due to redistricting, this district flipped from safely Republican to safely Democratic. Incumbent Daniel Webster (R) did not seek re-election in the 10th District. He instead ran in the open 11th District. Val Demings (D) defeated Thuy Lowe (R) in the general election on November 8, 2016, to win the seat. Demings defeated Geraldine Thompson, Bob Poe, and Fatima Fahmy in the Democratic primary on August 30, 2016.

Also, US Senate experience is more germane to POTUS than House experience (unless you are talking speaker or minority leader level)


You did not rebut anything I posted, which are fair vetting points about Demings.

She doesn't have the left/right divide unification potential Harris does as well. Demings is in the centrist New Democrat Coalition, and has made multiple votes that will will be seen as problematic by multiple groups (Latinx (that Kate's law vote I linked to above is bad news), civil liberty/privacy groups (aka anti surveillance state), again I linked to that above, where she had two votes to renew and expand FISA powers and the ability for warrantless email harvesting,and she voted for the Republican Bill (Protecting Seniors Access to Medicare Act) that eliminated the independent board tasked with keeping Medicare costs below limits, a key component of the ACA aka Obamacare, this is what the Rethugs falsely called the 'Death Panels'.

[Dem4Life1102]

50. Harris ran as a Democrat in a Democratic state

And experience in the Senate is not superior to House experience. That is just BS.

[Mosby]

20. Harris has more baggage as an AG/CA than Amy

[totodeinhere]

34. I think I heard that the Democrats in Massachusetts have a workaround for that if need be. n/t

[Hortensis]

36. :) More than one.

[radius777]

26. Biden wrote the Crime Bill.

All Dems over the past generation are going to have this baggage.

There was a major spike in crime (all types, not just involving PoC) from the 70's thru the 90's that lead to the 'get tough' movement that culminated with the bipartisan '94 Crime Bill.

Harris' job as DA and AG was to prosecute crime, and can't be blamed for doing her job, which she did well, otherwise could not be elected in a huge state like CA to the US Senate.

Note that Demings is a also a 'cop' - she was Orlando police chief - a dept that had its own issues with PoC etc. There's also no reason to think she would flip FL, being a local (police chief, congresswoman) official who has not held statewide office.

Harris, even with her flaws, has the most experience and upside - has also moved left since her time as AG.

Nobody else (of the possible nominees) has ability (spunk, smarts, toughness, star power) to deal with Trump and Trumpism like she does - which I believe will matter alot to Biden who is older and slower now.

Note that Sen. Kirsten Sinema in her tight race in AZ for Senate - did events with Harris - which says that she felt Harris helped with demographic groups she needed to win statewide in a swing state.

[totodeinhere]

37. When are we ever going to get away from the false narritive that Joe Biden is slower?

It's ageist and it's just not true. I wish you could delete the part in your comment that calls him slower.

[Dem4Life1102]

43. Right

It's a GOP talking point that some here are spreading for them.

[Dem4Life1102]

42. Demings flipped a GOP seat in 16

not 18 but 16. Harris won in a state where the Democrats could run a coffee mug and still win. Plus Demings never accused Biden of being a racist on national TV.

[Celerity]

45. as I showed above the district was redistricted from safe Rethug to safe Dem in 2016

https://ballotpedia.org/Florida%27s_10th_Congressional_District

Florida's 10th Congressional District election, 2016

Due to redistricting, this district flipped from safely Republican to safely Democratic. Incumbent Daniel Webster (R) did not seek re-election in the 10th District. He instead ran in the open 11th District. Val Demings (D) defeated Thuy Lowe (R) in the general election on November 8, 2016, to win the seat. Demings defeated Geraldine Thompson, Bob Poe, and Fatima Fahmy in the Democratic primary on August 30, 2016.

Plus Demings never accused Biden of being a racist on national TV.

This is a tired old false-framed ad hominem on Harris that is well past its expiry date. She never called him a racist, she tried (and did not do so well, tbf) to show how she disagreed with his support of anti-bussing policies at the time.

[Dem4Life1102]

51. Yes she did

And it is a GOP attack ad that writes itself.

[Celerity]

54. What is a GOP attack advert? They will attack anyone we pick.

And winning a redistricted (from Safe R to Safe D) seat is not the same as flipping a non redistricted Red or Purple or Pink seat.

[Dem4Life1102]

55. Yes they will

But at least with Demings they won't be able to do an ad with the VP nominee attacking the Presidential nominee. And someone actually from Florida on the ticket helps to put that state in play versus someone from the other side of the country.

[Celerity]

56. you are overselling the Harris/Biden campaign clash, as shit like that happens in every primary

and a white power, white nationalist party of the hate has ZERO standing to get involved in a pro bussing debate.

Also, if you are talking about voter suppression angles that the Rethugs may try with ratfucking adverts aimed at Democrats for divisive purposes, they can and probably will do the same with Demings and her Police department background, especially in the environment now.

Harris has far more top and/or very high level experience and is simply a better candidate IMHO. She also has a less problematic set of votes to defend with the left half of the party and with Latinx.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree as I am not switch to favouring Demings over Harris.

Neither of our opinions matter anyway, it is all on Biden.

cheers

[Dem4Life1102]

57. No I'm not

Harris is not a better choice for VP. She doesn't help in a single swing state. She won't excite Progressives or African Americans.

And not only is your experience argument bogus, experience doesn't really matter in elections. If it did Trump would not have won. Obama and W wouldn't have won either.

[Celerity]

58. She deffo helps more with progressives, her voting record is more progressive than Demings' is.

Harris would never have supported that horrid Trumpian anti-immigrant Kates's Law bill. Demings was one of only 24 Democrats in the House to join every Republican is voting for it. That will be an issue with the Latinx voters. Harris will help with swing states and us PoC as well, as she is a dynamic, strong woman of colour, a powerful speaker, and has a presence and a lot of charisma.

My experience argument is far from bogus. You saying it is bogus does not remotely refute it.

Ironic you try and use TRUMP as argument to buttress your very problematic experience doesn't matter in elections positing. Elections have consequences and look at how a 'no-high level government experience' POTUS ended up.

You obviously have some animosity towards Senator Harris, whereas I am simply looking at things from a carefully calculated set of criteria and have no animosity towards any of the remaining VP candidates.


The Latinx vote is going to be crucial in the election....................


Stephanie Murphy and Val Demings just voted for an incredibly terrible anti-immigration bill

https://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2017/06/30/stephanie-murphy-and-val-demings-just-voted-for-an-incredibly-terrible-anti-immigration-bill

snip

The bill has been highly criticized by the ACLU and House Democrats, like Rep. Steny Hoyer, who said Kate's Law "appeals to the most right-wing, anti-immigrant base of the Republican party that supports exclusion and opposes one of the founding principles of our nation."

snip




https://web.archive.org/web/20170709063450/https://www.democraticwhip.gov/content/daily-whip-thursday-june-29-2017





http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2017/roll344.xml



---- AYES 257 ---





Immigration bills approved by House would increase penalties under ‘Kate’s Law’ and punish sanctuary cities

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-immigration-kates-sanctuary-20170629-story.html

Democrats say that the bills paint all immigrants as criminals and scapegoats, and that immigrants here illegally would refuse to report crimes or cooperate with police if they feared deportation. “It’s a dog whistle against Latinos; I think everyone understands that,” Rep. Juan Vargas (D-San Diego) said. “We look at these people and see them as good citizens, see them at Little League and the soccer games. We don’t want to see them in prison; this is ridiculous. That’s not the kind of state we are. We’re going to push back.

”




The story behind ‘Kate’s Law’ — and how it could change immigration policies in the U.S.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/06/29/the-story-behind-kates-law-and-how-it-could-change-immigration-policies-in-the-u-s/

The House votes come at a critical time for the Trump administration. Passage of the bills could pave the way for a victory for Trump’s immigration agenda, particularly on sanctuary cities. The president met with families of victims Wednesday and urged lawmakers to bring the bills to his desk quickly.

Civil rights groups, including the American Civil Liberties Union, have strongly opposed Kate’s Law, calling it a “shortsighted and ill-conceived response” to the young woman’s slaying. They argue that it is blanket legislation that would penalize even those who come to the United States to escape persecution. Opponents also say that the bill perpetuates the false notion that undocumented immigrants are inherently criminals.

Link to tweet

[Dem4Life1102]

61. That must be why she got so much support from progressives in the primary

Oh no she didn't. If people cared about voting records, progressives would have flocked to Gillibrand. What they care about more is authenticity. They don't trust someone who has one position in one job and then changes it in the next.

That's why progressives and many African Americans don't trust Harris.

And the experience arguments are bogus. There is no difference in experience for a Senator than a Representative. They deal with the same issues and vote on the same bills.

Trump is not the only example. Obama was less experienced than McCain. W had less experience than Gore. Clinton was less experienced than Bush Sr. Experience doesn't matter in elections.

[radius777]

47. Biden does have a history of racial insensitivity

along with many white Dems from his era, when the party bent over backwards to accommodate the old Dixiecrats- which Biden himself has apologized for.

Harris (and Booker and Castro) were correct to call him out for that - doubt Biden has any hard feelings for it.

CA's system is difficult to get through, as there is first a 'jungle primary' and then the top two finishers (of any party affiliation) face off in the GE. Harris had to defeat another Dem (Loretta Sanchez) in the GE to win her Senate seat.

[Dem4Life1102]

52. Doesn't mean she can help to

win any swing states.

[qazplm135]

4. probably solidifies

a choice he was already leaning towards.

[bullimiami]

6. I'm still best with Warren. Harris next.

[LizBeth]

7. No. A woman. All women should be up. Now, my top three are Harris, Warren and Rice.

But no, it should be a woman of any color.

[Fiendish Thingy]

8. Not according to the data

Morning Consult poll released this week shows Warren is the top VP choice for Black voters. This is the third poll in the past month to reflect this.

[Demsrule86]

16. I don't believe that. She had little AA support during the primary. And she brings no state...

and could hurt us in moderate states like Arizona. I life Warren but I think she stays in the Senate.

[LakeArenal]

17. I don't believe so either.

[Fiendish Thingy]

29. Show me the data for your assertions - 3 polls have now shown Warren to be first choice for VP

Among all Dems, and among AA voters.

The most recent poll shows Warren boosts Biden’s support among AA voters by 24%, far above any other potential VP. That could help deliver Michigan, The Carolina’s, and Georgia.

Any other concerns about Warren hurting the ticket in Arizona or other moderate states is evidence-free, fear based speculation.

[Demsrule86]

59. I don't believe it period. I expect these polls are from people who like Warren or online polls

but no matter what national polls are meaningless as we are going for an EC win. I don't buy she boosts Biden's support either...most AA I know want a black woman.

[Fiendish Thingy]

60. Well, you're living in your own made up fantasyland

The most recent poll was by Morning Consult, and the previous ones were by CBS and Suffolk, IIRC. All high rated polling outfits.

Also just reported by Politico, veteran Democratic pollster Stan Greenberg says his data shows Warren to be the best choice to bring the ticket to the WH, and has made his case directly to Biden.

So, I’ve presented four evidence based sources against your anecdotes and hunches; I hope Biden and the Dems listen to the evidence.

[quickesst]

9. absolutely not

Nothing should change as far as the process that has been initiated already. If Biden where to say that the events in Minnesota have changed everything, it would portray a presidential candidate who is unsure of himself and lacks confidence others want to see in him. His commitment to the elimination of racial injustice does not hinge on his choice of VP. Does anyone actually believe that the history of racial Injustice in this country was lost on Joe Biden before the events in Minnesota?

[Hortensis]

39. :) Agree, agree, agree. Certainly not me.

And not those who've felt all along that he was going to be the best of a number of good choices for our very diverse party.

[quickesst]

46. at some point in my life....

...... I made the decision to ask myself one question before voicing an opinion. Is it logical?

[Hortensis]

53. Hmmm. I guess that depends on the question.

I should be more disciplined; my doubts too often come after.

Seriously, I think it's not logical to choose a VP who only represents one minority. All are being murdered by police, if not all at the same highest rate. I think if Biden's team looks hard enough they can find a woman whose background represents at least 4 minorities (two of them AA and Hispanic), and that they should. After all, everyone has four grandparents and 8 greats, shouldn't be hard to find several good possibilities among our many distinguished officials.

[SouthernCal_Dem]

11. No. nt

[tritsofme]

12. No, but the last week certainly doesn't help Klobuchar's chances.

[Sogo]

14. No, but it eliminates Sen. Klobuchar, IMO.

I say that as someone who caucused for her in the IA caucus.

Her work in MN would become the story, whether or not it is warranted, and we can't have that....

[dem4decades]

15. What would drive the choice to a Black woman, the you're not Black

Thing or this horrible Floyd thing?

[Dem4Life1102]

21. Both

[LanternWaste]

18. He'll make the choice predicated on his numbers, standards and wisdom

Ours is merely conjecture lacking any real or objective measure

[Hortensis]

40. Yes. And seemingly ignoring all important qualities, just trying

to market whatever we think might sell best at the moment.

[LakeArenal]

19. No. Joe already painted himself in a corner.

[Kaleva]

22. Are u suggesting blacks may vote for Trump or not vote if Biden doesn't?

[lettucebe]

23. He doesn't HAVE to do anything -- he'll choose the best person for the job

[Kaleva]

24. +1

[crickets]

27. This. nt

[Hekate]

25. No. He already said as much a long time ago, didn't he?

[Doreen]

28. No

The purpose of running with a women is to have a woman as vice president. Color was never the issue in the first place. We need a woman no matter what color they may be. If it was about a vice president of color then it would not have mattered if he chose a man or a woman.

[Skittles]

30. no

but I would love to see Kamala Harris chosen

[Caliman73]

31. No. It should "force" him to do anything.

That implies that Black people must be appeased by selecting a Black woman as a running mate. Biden should pick the best running mate based on experience, qualities, and what they bring to the leadership of the nation. To say that he should pick a Black woman based on what is happening regarding racial tensions, would just be like pandering.

I actually think that women of color should be way more represented in government anyway and I would love to see qualified Black or Brown women at the top of the ticket. The perspective of women of color is just different than any other group, even men of color. Women of color are "double minorities". They have had to learn to get ahead in a White Man's world so they have knowledge and understanding of that world AND of their own perspectives in that world. Women of color who have advanced in this society have had to put in so much more effort than other groups that I think (and I know I am being way too general) that they would be the most equitable people in terms of leadership and policy.

[ecstatic]

32. He just has to pick the right person.

Let's be clear, I'll crawl over glass to cast my vote this fall. trump has to go. Period.

That being said, I want Biden and his running mate to make ending the scourge of police brutality/violence in this country a top priority, preceded only by working with congress to secure the right to vote for every American.

Who he picks isn't as important, although I would prefer to be excited and happy about his choice. Whoever he picks must be competent and qualified. I don't want him to pick someone who will embarrass me. Does that make sense?

[totodeinhere]

33. He may very well pick an African American.

But he certainly does not have to. I doubt if he and his advisers have made a decision yet but I am confident that his choice will be outstanding.

[cwydro]

35. "Have" to?

Wtf?

He doesn't HAVE to do anything. I'm sure he'll do the right thing.

[BGBD]

48. It doesn't force him to do anything...

but, it would seem pretty tone-deaf to not do so at this point.

[JI7]

49. I think he was already leaning towards a black woman ever since South Carolina

Primary.

[Marrah_Goodman]

62. No

[lindysalsagal]

63. I'm going to buck the trend and admit that I wanted an african american woman all along.

If for no other reason than getting out the black Obama vote. I'm no expert but there must be qualified candidates. But these administrations full of old white guys are pissing me right off. It's time our administration looked more like our citizenry.