8 minutes with one's knee on a person's throat, while he pleads for mercy and breath,

[MoonRiver]

more than establishes premeditated murder. Premeditation doesn't have to take long. I really don't understand why Chauvin wasn't charged with 1st degree murder.

[Submariner]

1. This is the first time I ever heard of "Third" degree murder

I've heard of 1st degree murder, 2nd degree murder, manslaughter, and negligent homicide, but in my 7 decades have never heard the words 'third degree murder'...ever. Is that a Minneapolis PD term for 'this death doesn't matter so we hope to let this cop go free soon'.

[MoonRiver]

2. Apparently it only exists in Florida, Minnesota, and Pennsylvania.

Not sure why it exists, but definitely could be some sort of 'get out of jail free' card.

[John1956PA]

3. In PA, "Second Degree Murder" is reserved for felony murder.

Non-premeditated murder (which in most states is "Second Degree" murder) is "Third Degree Murder" in Pennsylvania.

I think that, in Pennsylvania, felony murder carries life-without-parole punishment.

[Mister Ed]

4. I think this charge was chosen in order to ensure conviction, and not to let Chauvin off easy.

I've seen it argued on DU that the first-degree murder charge against George Zimmerman, who killed young Trayvon Martin a few years ago, was actually a way for the local prosecutors to let Zimmerman off the hook while looking like they were being tough on him.

To convict on first-degree murder charges, the prosecutors would have had to prove to a jury, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Zimmerman planned the murder in advance. He might have. Who knows? How could the jury be sure, beyond reasonable doubt, what Zimmerman was thinking earlier that night? They couldn't, and Zimmerman walked free. And Chauvin would walk free for the same reason.

To convict Chauvin of second-degree murder, you'd have to prove to the jury, beyond reasonable doubt, that he decided on the spot to kill George Floyd. I think he might have. But can I prove that's what he was thinking? Prove beyond a doubt that's what he was thinking? Tough task. He might go free.

Third-degree murder means the attacker was severely injuring the victim in a way that was likely to kill him, and that it was just fine with the attacker if the victim died. That's inescapable. The video evidence and witness testimony make it plainly and obviously true. I think that's the charge chosen because it's the one that ensures Chauvin's conviction.

I'm no legal scholar, but many on DU are. They should please let me know if my thinking is sound on this.

[uponit7771]

5. +1, this is my understanding also to undercharge & increase chance of conviction

[Submariner]

6. That is a logical explanation

Hearing the words 3rd degree for the first time made me think they just made that up.

It's hard not to reconcile the act as intentional 1st degree murder as I watched the thug grind his knee into his neck, seemingly for maximum painful effect, as he studied the grimaces on George Floyd's face as he tried to manipulate his neck to catch a breath, only to have the murderous thug shift his knee position again to cut off that last gasp of air and life.

[2naSalit]

7. I have watched several legal professionals

on several MSNBC programs explain that 3rd degree murder being the best possible way to convict a cop. Intent being a main factor in the burden of proof department.

So perhaps this is the best approach for conviction. One of the people on the news said that once convicted, murder is murder and degrees are only identified with the court process. I wonder about that but it's a very small beginning to the change that needs to take place. With people still at home, they will have time to think about how this should turn out.

[MoonRiver]

8. I have heard those arguments also, and probably they are correct and reasonable.

From a prosecutor's perspective the goal is getting a conviction. The problem is perception. The video of Floyd being murdered is so incriminating that most people just can't get past that.

[tblue37]

9. 8 min 53 sec. makes it much closer to 9 min

[Solomon]

10. I'm wondering if it was even longer. Was he already kneeing Floyd when the camera started

recording? If so, it was longer than 9 minutes. Hope they release the body cam footage of all of the officers.

[EndlessWire]

11. I'm going to say something that probably will get me

bounced, but it is an observation to think about.

I'm not sure what people want from authorities. I am reading comments that basically say that all four of the cops should be immediately charged and arrested for first degree murder. That about right? And, when they weren't, we got riots.

Let me say first that I am also outraged about the death of Floyd. I always am, from the kid who got body slammed on the hood of the car to the guy placed on his stomach lying unattended while the cop insisted he was okay when he was probably dead at that point, to the guy shot in the back by an out of control cop, plus many others. I was especially grieved by the guy placed in the back of the van alive and arriving dead. There was absolutely no reason for that, and they all got off. I mean, somebody killed him.

The video that I saw of Floyd was just cringe worthy, with the cop plainly grinding on his neck. But, I gotta say, people would be better off not commenting. Why? Because I keep hearing people saying that he was begging that he couldn't breathe. I'm sorry, but when you say that, you're telling me that he was moving air.

We all know that he was cuffed, on the ground and neutralized, but when he moved slightly, the cop increased the pressure of his knee (which you can see him do on the video) to control him. So, he was now controlling him to death.

If you want this cop sent to jail as a dangerous individual not fit for the duty of a cop, then you will give the guys over him a chance to line up their ducks. They have to gather the same evidence against him that they would have to gather against you. This may piss you off, but that cop also has civil rights.

Am I defending the cop? NO. I'm just saying that I see a possible defense, and the cops need time to gather all the evidence pro and con. For instance, if he was so hard to control, where were the other officers? Why wasn't the cop using his arms and hands instead of just his knee? Was he showing off, looking so nonchalant there?

I dunno. It's just not possible to instantly make such a judgement without an investigation. But, when people didn't get that, they rioted.

I saw the cop's knee grinding his Adam's apple into the pavement, and I saw him wince. That is what would ultimately cause me to convict, but the cop is going to say that he was still moving, still resisting, and moving air. So, the instant judgement just can't be there.

I'm not answering anymore on this thread.

[DesertRat]

12. I agree 100% nt