The presser in MN this morning was stunning. 80% provocateurs?

[nolabear]

The claim is not a single arrest last night was from in state, that the Dark Web has organized groups of white supremacists, among others. They promised details on those arrested along with information obtained via, as the governor said, something akin to contact tracing.

I’m not surprised by the fact but the ratio is stunning. How do we combat this kind of planned chaos for the purpose of undermining a legitimate protest?

[uponit7771]

1. K&R, and Trumps tweet ... there's something strange

[Solomon]

2. Proof positive of what we've been saying.

[still_one]

3. Is there a link on that presser? Thanks

[mercuryblues]

4. It was just on CNN

here's a story that covers some of what was said in the live presser. Take note this was written prior to the Presser.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/30/us/george-floyd-protests-saturday/index.html

Walz and the mayors of Minneapolis and St. Paul said vandals are largely nonresidents of the cities with no interest in Floyd's death.

Walz said the state's "communities of color ... were out fighting hand in hand" to try to save businesses, some that took generations to build, that were under attack.

"Nothing we do to provide justice" for Floyd "matter(s) to any of these people who are out here firing upon the National Guard, burning" businesses and "disrupting civil life," Walz said.

"Will not accept George Floyd's death. We will not accept the destruction of our communities, either," St. Paul Mayor Melvin Carter said.

Anger boiled over Friday in more than 30 cities, with some protesters smashing windows, setting vehicles ablaze, blocking traffic on highways and clashing with police.

during the live presser they revealed that they have discovered with the arrests that 80% were from out of state and associated with groups bent on destruction and violence.

[still_one]

5. I will look it up, thanks. Very important report

[mercuryblues]

11. Yes.

I updated my post. I'm giving them a few minutes to get the presser up on the site. Stunning.

[certainot]

121. provocatuers? the big provocatuers are on the radio - 1500 radio stations

including 4 llimbaugh stations endorsed by uni of minnesota ....... MINNESOTA 4 Minnesota 4

260 limbaugh stations endorsed by 87 universities

so just like all protests a few hundred local and national rw radio station blowhards on 1500 stations will have days, weeks, months to define what happened, long after the protests stop - exactly why OWS died

[spicysista]

9. Here's a clip! (Mayor Carter of St. Paul)

[still_one]

15. +++

[nolabear]

18. Thank you for the follow up! Things are happening so fast.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

54. Officials: Outsiders fueling rioting, looting, violence in Twin Cities (local source)

By PIONEER PRESS | May 30, 2020 at 11:59 a.m.

A number of outsiders are fueling the destruction and rioting that has built each night this week across the Twin Cities since the death of George Floyd, according to state officials who spoke during a Saturday morning press conference.

Gov. Tim Walz said officials estimate that about 80 percent of the rioters Friday night were from outside Minnesota while 20 percent were Minnesotans.

As officials make arrests, they are investigating who those individuals are and whether they are associated with any groups, said Minnesota Public Safety Commissioner John Harrington.

“We have seen things like white supremacist organizers posting on platforms about coming to Minnesota,” Harrington said. He added that officials are also looking into connections with organized crime.

[LonePirate]

6. Keep in mind this may explain MN but there are now destructive protests in numerous cities.

People will stick closer to home instead of traveling to another state in the coming days.

[lostnfound]

19. supremacists are all over the country. Is your point that it will erupt everywhere?

I think it will. And where we have democratic governors, we have a chance hat the truth will get out

[Jamastiene]

24. Provocateurs exist all over the country not just in one state in America.

These movements are pro-racist and exist all over America in more than one state. That is why the protests are destructive in more than one place.

The same way nonviolent protesters can organize online, violent provocateurs who are only pretending to be anti-racist also can organize online. The same way nonviolent protesters can show up and protest. Provocateurs can show up and cause damage.

It is simple but not simple at the same time.

[Hortensis]

74. Yes, and studies have shown the white power movement

is made up of many different groups and people with various orientations (neo-Nazis, Klan, white nationalists (as in violent white transnationalists planning to overthrow the U.S. and create a white planet), who've connected and are coordinating. Timothy McVeigh was associated with this leaderless underground movement.

As in other occurrences, we're going to find some of these are trained and funded by organizations that also spread money to others around the nation, and others like McVeigh are individuals who are not formally affiliated with and directed by any one organization but rather encouraged (these days via the web) to engage in terrorism on their own or flock to join others, as in these cities.

And of course the white power movement is a fantastic asset for foreign nations engaged in occult warfare.

[crickets]

75. Nailed it. nt

[Jamastiene]

78. Yes, they have a lot of different groups.

I have heard a lot of new names, new to me, at least, in the last couple of days. They are there to discredit the anti-racist movement.

They are worldwide, so you do have a valid point about other nations being interested in using them to cause trouble inside of countries, even America.

[Hortensis]

86. I'm behind on reading about these activities, but I've read

that these white power movement groups have been recruiting military and law enforcement personnel for decades now. And then there's our president. Steve Bannon, Sebastian Gorka, Ian Smith and a bunch of other Trump whisperers have been forced physically out, if still able to influence, and Stephen Miller is right there on his shoulder.

I've come to believe the Republican leadership's refusal to enact even modest gun control laws, in spite of overwhelming support among Republicans, is because they may need to encourage civil disorder to help them hold and gain power. Alarmed citizenries tend to look to strong, authoritarian leadership to secure order.

The Repubs under the leadership of Trump in the WH, congress under McConnell and the rest, and some controlling state governments, are America's largest and most powerful white power organization by far, whether we thought of them that way or not.

[wnylib]

108. Spot on. Regarding recruitment

of military and law enforcement into supremacy groups, PBS had a program on this in 2016. They covered warnings about it from the FBI. The guardian ran an article on it, in 2019, I think. Once they get a cop in their group, they can influence the culture of the force and recruit others.

It works both ways. Sometimes instead of getting existing cops to join them, some of their own members join a police or sheriff's force.

I have the same feeling about why Republicans oppose gun control.

[Sunsky]

7. But the media and others seek to blame to protesters 100% nt

[Jamastiene]

21. That is because people don't know. They are not educated about what provocateurs

are really doing and do not know. I have seen it and tried to respond, even right here on DU. People can't seem to wrap their minds around how that stuff is happening and who is really doing it. The public wants a simple good guys/bad guys thing to watch and cannot understand that there is more to it.

There are really bad guys who are trying to pretend they are part of the good guys, when really, they are not. It's like adding a third group into the mix that people are hugely unaware of. They haven't read up on counter protest tactics through the years. The public needs to know. Then the media cannot get away with blaming protesters any more. It's time for protest leaders to speak up and educate the public. That is the only start to a solution I see. Make sure everyone everywhere knows what provocateurs really are.

[Bengus81]

25. For people calling bullshit they must not know who that puke Jacob Wohl is.........

I wouldn't put a fucking thing past him.

[LisaM]

99. I know.

I have seen people on DU who seem to flat out be promoting violence and it scares me.

[The Mouth]

40. That was the genuis of MLK and other Civil rights icons

They knew how to plan and stage a protest that didn't get out of hand. Involved churches, careful consideration of the route, etc. NOT an easy task but given that there was even more rage and much more potentially violent resistance by the police it was crucial.

You don't just send out a tweet or IM and say 'Let's meet at the square with signs', shit *WILL* get out of hand without providing structure and security, that's been the nature of protests and crowds for literally thousands of years.

[Sunsky]

46. Well they didn't have twitter then either

People use the tools that are available. I am not going to blame the protesters. I'm not going to belittle those who stand up to injustice.

[The Mouth]

77. So you're OK with agents provacatuers

destruction of local businesses and achieving nothing of long-range value

Got it.

[Jamastiene]

80. I don't think people realize the provocateurs are destroying primarily

businesses with black and other minority owners and destroying other businesses in primarily black neighborhoods. If someone who knows how to do it were to overlap maps of the destruction with maps of minority neighborhoods, they could at least once and for get people to pay attention. People don't seem to want to hear about pro-racist groups coming in after protesters to destroy their neighborhoods and their businesses. They just think it is nothing but protesters and cops out there. No, there are outside groups coming in to cause trouble for protesters and dilute their message of wanting justice.

[The Mouth]

83. That's what I'm saying

On organized protests are a petri dish for these agents provocateurs. MLK and other civil rights leaders made progress because the prevented such.

[Sunsky]

85. What I'm not ok with is people who look like me being hunted

in the streets. What I'm not ok with is my nervous system going into overdrive when I'm taking my family for a simple drive and a cop is behind me. What I'm not ok with is being trailed by a cop straight to my driveway, because I'm a black female who lives in a nice neighborhood and drives a nice car (happened more than once). What I'm not ok with are the conversations with my children to try and give them a chance to live in this society. What I'm not ok with is people dictating how I should channel my anger and disgust. Provocateurs will show up when they want to, blaming peaceful protesters for them showing up is just ridiculous. Condescension will get nowhere with me.

[Jamastiene]

79. The protesters are not the problem. It is the outside groups that come in

to cause trouble. There are a lot of white supremacist groups infiltrating the protests. That doesn't mean the protesters are the problem. They are definitely not. Those pro-racist white supremacist groups? They are the problem.

Protest leaders are probably going to need to find a way to counteract the provocateurs at some point and separate protesters from those that come in after them to cause trouble. They have so far been coming in after protesters have marched through. Of course, the cameras rarely get the protesters who are nonviolent, because they doesn't get them views like the destruction. So, we cannot count on MSM. Photographers and more importantly videographers need to accompany protesters to protect them and document the groups that are causing trouble.

[The Mouth]

84. Always a danger in any protest, always has been

We need to have some of these assholes restrained via citizen's arrest and outed.

[intheflow]

110. There's a big difference between King's marches and what's happening here.

First of all, King's major actions were planned out for months. These protests are happening spontaneously.

Also, King was assassinated during a peaceful protest march, so what exactly is your point?

[The Mouth]

112. My point

is that we're handing Trump his Reichstag fire.

[Hortensis]

8. First thing to know Minneapolis Metro's population is over 3,600,000.

Minneapolis itself "59.3% White Alone, 19.3% Black or African American Alone, and 9.62% Hispanic or Latino." Just for perspective.

Authorities in a mostly peaceful city were unprepared for this kind of organized RW chaos-sowing in advance of the 2020 election. I couldn't find an estimate for the size of the crowds, but they're a tiny, tiny fraction of the whole. But for four days these outside hoodlums have been encouraging the vandalism and torching of mainly commercial buildings in black neighborhoods and across the city, I read 55 fires responded to in one 24-hour period from Thurs-Fri afternoon.

[sab390]

38. One too many zeros

The Twin cities are close to the same, about 350,000 each. Give or take a street or two. But there are gigantic suburbs of 90,000 or more. The metro area is about 2 and a half to 3 million.

[LittleWoman]

55. The 2010 population of the Twin Cities

metro area is 3.28 million.

[magicarpet]

100. One thing that shocker me was the Blue Lives Matter (Cops),...

.... the Blue & Black version of the American Flag,... since the death of George Floyd's knee on neck killing by cop,... the Blue Lives Matters flag came back out in the public square rapidly. I had not seen that flag since Kaepernick taking a knee at football games.

Just an observation.

[Kid Berwyn]

122. They didn't think they'd get caught.

I’m very happy to hear the governor report they’ve been caught and exposed for what they are, secret agents l

[spicysista]

10. Here's a clip for anyone interested....

Mayor Carter of St. Paul....

[ancianita]

33. Awesome. It needs lots of exposure. Thank you.

[crazylikafox]

12. Not surprised

Just watching it last night it had such a different feel from earlier protests. The crowd was completely different from those on the streets earlier. Don’t know who they were, but god help us

[NJCher]

28. I got that feeling, too

But naive idiot that I am, I thought, I am so glad white people are out protesting this. Duh. Now we know why there were so many white people out there.

No doubt there were some sincere white protesters. But if there were a significant number of arrests in St. Paul, this 80% figure adds a whole new wrinkle. Is it a similar phenom in Minneapolis? I want to know, soon.

Did I say "wrinkle?" How about earthquake chasm?



Nothing less than a Congressional investigation and televised hearings on who these people really are has to take place.

[DENVERPOPS]

47. Crazylika

AND, the Police/Trump bring in their MAGA goons, not to go after the Provocateurs, but the Demonstrators....

I can only imagine Putin's Glee in watching all of this......(and directing Trump daily, by some covert "back channel" how to use everything and anything to provoke him to using Gov't power against his own people.

It's like having one of those verbal command robots. Putin says it, Trump does it.......

It reminds me of the infamous "Hooligans" in Europe soccer games who travel from game to game to incite the worked up fans into turning violent. Interpol has a list and pictures of them, and are at every event's gate to screen the thugs out and to arrest them......
Not here, they are all deemed "fine people" by Trump............

[tinrobot]

13. Drive to another state, smash windows, start fires. How is that not terrorism?

[Hortensis]

17. Since it's intended to affect public attitudes and actions,

I think we can assume it fits the federal definition.

A couple years ago I read the federal govt's summary of domestic terrorist acts:

94% -- RW extremist, non-Muslim
4% -- Muslim extremist
2% -- LW extremist

94% our own RWers, virtually entirely white. And now this. Some of it is foreign-organized and/or funded or otherwise assisted, of course, no idea how the numbers may break down for that. Our intelligence services report, though, that Russia alone has been planning chaos around this election all along.

[erronis]

35. And of those 94% RW extremists, 90% are funded by forces against the US and its Constitution

that includes people like devos and family, mercers, kochs, trumps/kushners, murdochs, thiels, etc.
Hell throw in everyone on https://www.rightwingwatch.org/people/

And then throw in every foreign diktator/despot/democracy-hater, especially putin.

2% LW extremist? The monkey-wrench gang? Or The Overstory crew? Quelles radicaux!

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

36. Smashing stuff while white is not terrorism...

It’s boys will be boys

[IronLionZion]

48. White people doing violence for a political agenda is never called terrorism

Brown people simply living life or traveling by air is terrorism

Not you, but what is very frustrating is how many educated white liberals online stubbornly claim white people don't have a political agenda. As if we're not even on a political forum. The relentless denial of white terrorism encourages more of it.

[Jamastiene]

14. Hell yeah! It is about time someone exposed them for what they are doing.

That is what I have been saying. The ones doing the vandalism, arson, and causing all of the riots are agent provocateurs. The majority of them are not anti-racist either from what I have read online in the past few days. I have learned a lot in the last few days. None of it is pretty.

Meanwhile, thread after thread and post after post everywhere has been blaming the protesters. Nope. It is frustrating to try to educate people about what they don't know about.

I would love nothing more than to see the agent provocateurs who are doing all of that exposed for the pro-racist pieces of shit they really are. They are actually doing it to take away from the protesters' message. They are another kind of counter protester and they get more and more violent every time.

This kind of thing has been happening forever and a day now and it is infuriating. I wish there was a way to teach more people about it. So many people don't seem to have gotten the memo, so they blame regular protesters. I want that whole pro-racist movement exposed so bad.

The first thing to do is educate more people. Even the mayor didn't seem to know protesters were not the ones being violent and doing all of the vandalism and arson everywhere. That is why when she kept saying go home, it fell on deaf ears. The people she was telling to go home were not even from her area and not even anti-racist. She was trying to appeal to the wrong group of people, who already were not doing that stuff.

In Atlanta, I could not get over the footage of marchers who had marched on through and left, the protesters. Then, after they went through, the agent provocateurs came in and did all of that stuff to the CNN sign and started raising hell.

So, we know that much. The agent provocateurs come in later, after nonviolent protesters have moved through. I have also learned that night time is usually when the provocateurs come in to do the rioting. So, ending protests before night would cut a lot of the problems for protesters out. If they are out there after dark, they aren't part of the protests. It would expose the ones who are there to cause trouble and keep protesters safer.

I wish there was a way to talk to leaders in the protest movement about counteracting the provocateurs. People need to know how those jerks are doing this. I just overheard some stuff in one of the chats on a YouTube stream and learned a lot. 4Chan got mentioned a lot and they specifically said "antifa" would be out after dark. I didn't know what that meant at first, because I had always associated antifa with anti-fascism and thought that meant probably anti-racist too. Apparently not.

From what they were saying, then seeing what started happening, I realized the ones doing the rioting are an entirely different group of people than the protesters. The protesters, in every case I have watched in the streams so far, had marched on and went down the road before the looting, vandalism, and arson and other riot based stuff started happening.

I just know a little bit because of what those assholes were saying in that chat. At first, I had been alerting a bunch of pro-racist crap being said in that video chat, but could not keep up. Finally, I just started reading and seeing how they were bragging about causing trouble. I have been trying to figure out who to go to with that information ever since. What's really weird is that the stream was a link I followed from DU to that stream on YouTube.

If someone with the ability to do something about it wants to really fight the pro-racist agent provocateurs who are trying to dilute the peaceful protesters' message, it is going to take monitoring them and seeing what they are planning online. They are planning this stuff right online, from the looks of things. AND it is going to take getting the message out to regular everyday people and educating them on what agent provocateurs are doing. Otherwise, it will just continue this way and worse, people will think it is the nonviolent protesters doing the violence, when it is not. That is a really bad thing.

If anyone knows any leaders in the protest movement, making sure they know to counteract the provocateurs' actions with information and education for the public would be the best thing to do to fight that stuff back. Spread the word to other leaders until everyone knows about it and let them do the same. Somehow, get the message out to the general public about what agent provocateurs are and what they are doing. Pro-racists are coming into the movement and changing how people feel about it. That is wrong. It needs to stop.

I only know a little. I don't have any other idea other than that. Try to educate the public so as many people as possible know what is happening. And get nonviolent protesters to safety when night time comes. That way people will know anyone out after dark is not part of the protesters. It's those racist scumbags coming in to cause trouble.

[nolabear]

22. Thank you. Your suggestions are right on. There's an event with black leaders today.

That’s really inexact I know but there were a bunch of announcements in a row. One was that they’re meeting with a group of black civic leaders. One that they’re making identifying material on those arrested public. They need to go deep on this.

I saw footage somewhere with a young person in the protest standing in front of a pallet piled high with bricks, saying “Oh look what showed up just before a protest! That’s not suspicious at all is it?”

I knew it happened but I can’t believe I’ve been so naive about the scope.

Stay safe. ❤️

[erronis]

39. Great post. I hope it reaches far and wide. These activities are staged by the real thugs.

(r)epuglicons and their paymasters. RW police and their paymasters.

Wonder if this hasn't been going on since at least the 1968 Democratic convention. Oh, of course it has. Union busting, installing spies and provocateurs throughout history.

[Upthevibe]

63. Jamastiene....

I've been doing some reading and I've been trying to tell people about this group. QAnon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon


I've posted that I have a friend who's always been into conspiracy theories. I don't think she realizes it but somehow QAnon is involved in this belief that Bill Gates is basically the anti-Christ and his involvement in vaccines is to depopulate and chip the people in this country. She's an anti-vaxxer and believe me, it doesn't frickin' help that RFJ, Jr. is also an anti-vaxxer.

These right-wing groups include the white supremacy movement. They MUST be exposed!

[Jamastiene]

66. Yes, QAnon came from the 4Chan bunch.

A lot of people on both sides of the issues believe they are their friends, but they are playing both sides against each other. They have infiltrated groups that were once anti-racist groups as well. Half the people who believe they are real friends to them have no idea they are really far right racists with crackpot conspiracy theories and an agenda to have totalitarian extremist right wing leadership. It is a worldwide movement as well.

They need to be exposed. A lot of people are going to be surprised if they ever are exposed. Nobody likes to feel duped though. So, it makes them cling to whatever these groups are doing.

It doesn't help that people like Barr, with a clear right wing agenda, outright lie and say it is far left groups, when it is far right groups infiltrating and destroying anti-racist groups, in reality. That is what is really happening here. Like I said, nobody likes to feel duped. So, it is going to mess with a lot of friendships people have formed with people they thought were on their side.

[BlueWI]

88. Spot on.

Several friends in South Minneapolis have seen these outside provocateurs. It's a tight knit neighborhood in a majority white city and state, patrolled a police force with some members that swing white supremacist.

The curfews make sense, but the citizens are very important to engage as eyes and ears, if there are existing neighborhood organizations that can be spotters.

Too many assumptions were made about who is causing the damage to the neighborhoods, with the usual rationalizing trotted out about black criminality. There is always a mix of motives, good and ill, among crowds engaged in civil unrest.

Other communities can learn from this example. We all have a stake in distinguishing protesters of conscience from others who intentionally cause destruction for nefarious reasons.

[malaise]

16. Scary

White supremacists burning down black residential homes - I hope they end up in prison

[Hermit-The-Prog]

26. These terrorists are reported on by the m$m as if they are protesters

This ignites riots elsewhere, which are likewise reported on as if all protesters.

It's Charles Manson's and Deathcount Donald's dream.

[malaise]

30. It is domestic terrorism

for sure

[jaxexpat]

31. I was thinking along those lines too.

Helter Skelter stuff.

[HipChick]

20. I want to see some receipts..

[nolabear]

23. You and me both.

[reACTIONary]

51. Me too. nt

[NRaleighLiberal]

27. many in US prisons should not be there. Many who are not should be.

[lark]

29. First - fire the person responsible for riling things up - Tangerine Traitor Tot.

Nothing will improve until he and Barr are gone and hopefully under indictment or convicted and in jail. Guaranteed Barr put his thumb on the scale and sought little to no charges at all and is the reason all 4 weren't already arrested. TTT and Toad want a race war & will do just about anything to get it.

[erronis]

42. Traitor-Tot is just sending the smoke signals. He is following scripts to effect other's goals

tt is himself a pawn with a price upon his head if he fucks up. And he will, and his head will fall.

But the others don't care about tt or his family and probably don't care about the (r)s other than they are all useful pieces to be played.

Fascinating end-game coming up. I feel that White has lost momentum and direction.

[Warpy]

32. Legitimate protests need to melt away down side streets

and alleys, regrouping somewhere else. This will take more organization than they now possess, plus a shift in paradigm that gets away from "this is our turf, we were here first." In large areas like large parks, once the looters and trashers show up, people need to push back away from them.

Also, the word "terrorist" has got to be applied when these goons face charges (if they're not cops, that is).

These assholes have been organizing with impunity since the 70s, untroubled by the FBI because they're white and right wing. The next few months will be violent ones because we lack a functioning government willing to prosecute these thugs as who they are. They're ISIL. They're al Qaeda. They're brownshirts.

In the meantime, I hope Minneapolis will get these guys into the newspaper, their pictures, names, state of origin, and political affiliation. If they balk at this, they need to remember one thing: throughout history, democracy has always been toppled by the far right. There are no exceptions.

[erronis]

45. I've thought the same, but the true organizers of the protest have other ideas.

Some protests may be truly grass-root and start and live without interference and control from other forces.

However when the powers want to foment an uprising so they (the powers) can control the messaging, they will do so in ways to inflict major damage on the movements.

I'm guessing one of the best ways a controlling government (or alternative force) can manage a potentially huge uprising is to break it up into smaller protests that are created and organized to inflict damage on the reasons for the uprising.

LEO (or other forces) may foment or actively abet a protest while positioning themselves in a way to contain and possibly detain/punish normal people that have joined to protest for real and ideological reasons. I believe the Chinese are expert at herding citizens. All authoritarian regimes learn from each other.

[barbtries]

34. is there a link?

i haven't seen it but have suspected that there were many provocateurs and have seen evidence on a couple twitter videos. not just in Minneapolis either.

[relayerbob]

37. This was true in Atlanta last night also

Lots of people from apparently out of the area, with license plates covered, starting trouble

[mwb970]

41. It is always "foreign actors" or "non-students" or other outsiders who get the blame in these cases.

[erronis]

43. Not sure what you mean. Why are "foreign actors" or "non-students" involved?

If the actors are "non-foreign" (meaning US bred/born) are they never part of the problem? An awful lot of mayhem is hatched and carried out by people from within a community, depending on the breadth of the term community.

And "non-students". What does "student" mean? An active university/college enrollee? A high-school, etc. student? Is anyone blaming people that study stuff (students) for some significant level of blame attribution?

"Outsiders" are easier. They are anybody other than those in our families, our neighborhood, our towns/cities/states, our class or our ethnic group. Pretty much everybody except ourselves.

Not wanting to be pedantic (and I know this is), but I'm just curious about your choices of terms.

[mwb970]

56. You may be overthinking this.

I have noticed that when there is unrest in some foreign capital, the local leaders generally blame outsiders or "foreign terrorists" rather than the people who live there. Closer to home, when there is some kind of large-scale incident on the Ohio State University campus near my home, the administration always says that the troublemakers were "non-students" rather than the kids attending the university.

When I heard the charge of outside actors at work in this current crisis, i couldn't help thinking of this pattern. That doesn't mean that what was said is not true.

I am sorry I wasn't clearer. I was hoping to get my point across without writing a long post like this one!

[erronis]

64. Yes - analysis paralysis. As soon as I started parsing your post I realized I was getting into

grammar school sentence diagramming, etc. Still it was useful for me to have to think about those terms as used before and now.

[reACTIONary]

58. In the old days, after a student protest, especially one...

... that was particularly uncivil or turned violent, the "administration" was wont to blame it on "outside instigators" or "nonstudents" to save face.

For instance, in The Graduate, a reference is made to the Berkley Free Speech movement

Mr. McCleery: Are you a student?
Benjamin: Not exactly.
Mr. McCleery: What's that?
Benjamin: I said 'Not exactly.' No.
Mr. McCleery: What are ya then?
Benjamin: Oh, I'm just sorta travelin' through.
Mr. McCleery: I like to know who's living in my house. Like to know what my boys are up to.
Benjamin: I'm not up to much, actually. I'm just visiting. I mean, I've always wanted to see Berkeley.
Mr. McCleery: You're not one of those agitators?
Benjamin: What?
Mr. McCleery: One of those outside agitators?
Ben: Oh no.
Mr. McCleery: I hate that. I won't stand for it. I won't stand for that.

In other words, the post is suggesting that the city is using the old outside agitator ploy to save face.

[Thekaspervote]

44. And here's a cop ID'ed by his x wife breaking windows

Link to tweet

?s=21

[erronis]

49. Oh, wow. Damn it. It's brazen. Why do they even try to wear masks?

This is what the party that has taken over the senate and executive really wants?

Do they know that this mayhem will eventually cost them their own peace-of-life? (I hope)

[TomVilmer]

61. Let's say maybe.......

https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/may/29/fact-checking-misinformation-about-george-floyd-pr/

[DENVERPOPS]

50. I can only imagine when the true Demonstrators

become violent and go after the ones committing violence and agitating the situation.
Not to harm them, but tie them in Zip Ties and leave them in the Street for the Police......and walk away.....

[jcgoldie]

52. Reminds me of Russians on facebook

Posing as rednecks to swing an election.

[waterwatcher123]

53. Track and Identify these People

The hotels in Minneapolis and the suburbs have to be nearly empty due to COVID-19. So, it would be wonderful if the hotel cameras could be reviewed to see if these people are loading or unloading luggage that looks highly suspicious. The plates could be run as well to see who owns the vehicles they are driving (some probably rented - which could be tracked too). This data could then be compared with social media or dark web sites to see if these people turn up on white supremacist sites.

[Initech]

57. Remember - groups like Infowars and Project Veritas have got caught paying protestors.

On more than one occasion. I would not be surprised if they tried that shit here.

[SunSeeker]

59. Barr just said on live TV that the violence is being planned by "far far left, antifa-type groups."

[nolabear]

60. OFFS. Of course he did.

[SunSeeker]

62. Witnesses said this dude looked like a cop.

Link to tweet

[nolabear]

65. Lots of speculation on him.

One interesting take, and that makes sense, is that the getup protects him from identification by people on the ground and drones from above, and that he could just walk under an overpass, drop the gear and go on his way.

Nothing casual there, that’s for certain.

[SunSeeker]

71. And he looks like he's about 40 years old. This ain't no kid.

Last edited Sat May 30, 2020, 03:47 PM - Edit history (1)

Those eyes, the hostile way he responded to the African American local, all make me think white supremacist cop. He has that Chauvin vibe.

Some have said he's a St. Paul, MN police officer.

Dylan (@dyllyp) Tweeted:
HOLY SHIT. The cop who started the vandalizing was outted by people who know him. His name is Jacob Pederson of the St. Paul PD. https://t.co/vgw8EqKz5j

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

But Snopes says it's "unproven." https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/officer-jacob-pederson-protests/

[nolabear]

76. Yeah he was threatening for sure. No "you and me, Brother" vibe.

[Jamastiene]

68. Whoever he is, he only busted the windows and walked away, UNTIL some protesters called him

out on what he did. Then, he turned around and threatened them. He wasn't there to be on their side and get justice. Whoever he is, something about him and his actions toward protesters is way off. WAY off.

[SunSeeker]

69. Yup. He was just there to cause destruction...and avoid detection.

His actions were very premeditated. Tactical gear, gloves, umbrella to a hide from drones & choppers. Yet with all that prep, no time to scrawl out a protest sign? And he certainly had no empathy for African Americans, judging by his hostile response to the young black man asking him what up.

Wish someone had followed him to his car and gotten his license plate.

[dalton99a]

70. +1. It was clearly preplanned.

[Jamastiene]

72. I heard in several places he walked all the way back to one of the police precincts.

But, I don't know if anyone got that part on video. I saw one picture that traced his path and showed exactly where he went, but I can't remember where it was right now. It was on Twitter somewhere. That much I do remember, but where? It could be any number of tweets I saw while trying to figure some things out. He is very suspicious. If I can find the tweet and the drawing again, I will come back and try to edit this post and add it here.

If anyone wants to help, remember this is a general Twitter search with lots of video and lots of different points of view, but it does have further video of umbrella guy

https://twitter.com/search?q=umbrella&src=typed_query

Here is the picture where they trace out where umbrella guy and pink shirt guy go after he busted the windows.

Link to tweet

?s=20

And here is the thread the drawing came from on Twitter. I guess they are called threads on Twitter too.

Link to tweet

?s=20

Some have ID'ed the man as a St. Paul cop. The guy in the pink shirt was seen walking with him holding that pizza box in a lot of different videos, pictures, and accounts from people who have been looking into this too.

[SunSeeker]

81. He definitely looks like a St. Paul cop; Snopes lists it as "unproven."

Dylan (@dyllyp) Tweeted:
HOLY SHIT. The cop who started the vandalizing was outted by people who know him. His name is Jacob Pederson of the St. Paul PD. https://t.co/vgw8EqKz5j

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/officer-jacob-pederson-protests/

[Jamastiene]

82. Some are now saying he is a white nationalist.

It starts with this post

Link to tweet

?s=20
Then he cited the MN press conference which is still not conclusive either.

Whoever he is, something is way off about both him and pink shirt guy. Pink shirt guy was seen walking with him later. I'm still not sure what is up with pink shirt guy. He may be the key to the whole thing.

[ancianita]

87. Glad he got doxxed.

[SunSeeker]

90. Pink shirt guy was challenging him. In every video I saw.

[Jamastiene]

92. Have you seen this video?

Link to tweet

?s=20

He is just walking along with him in this video. There is no challenging going on.

[SunSeeker]

94. I did. He's tailing him, saying "this guy's a police officer right here."

You can hear it if you turn up the sound.

Umbrella guy appears to suspect he's being videoed and drops his umbrella forward to cover his face.

[Alex4Martinez]

102. Until later when they leave the scene together, peacefully, best buds.

See the video a few replies up.

Or here, and look for the pink shirt and who he's walking with.

Link to tweet

?s=20

[SunSeeker]

104. NO. Pink guy says at 0:20: "Hey this guy's a police officer right here!"

He's TAILING the umbrella guy and warning fellow legit protestors that umbrella guy is a cop, provocateur.

Turn up the sound and listen carefully.

[MartyTheGreek]

116. Pink Shirt guy was Pizza Box guy on the vid where's he's breaking the windows...

If you listen to Pizza Box guy, sound like he's saying WTF are you doing? You're not from here or something. White guy goes, are you calling me out, Pizza Box guy was calling his ass out. I wonder how long he followed them?

I read a PB post that said it was staged symbolism as Umbrella Guy represented Storm Front, and Pizza Box guy was a reference to Pizza Gate to get Q-Anon's attention. That's sounds wack I know.

[Alex4Martinez]

101. So pink shirt Pizza Guy was in it with window breaking guy! DAMN!

Thanks for that, so shady!

[SunSeeker]

103. No. Pink shirt guy is tailing him, saying "this guy's a police officer right here."

You can hear him say that in that second video if you turn up the sound. 

Umbrella guy appears to suspect he's being videoed and drops his umbrella forward to cover his face.


You seem more bothered by the pink shirt guy that the umbrellguy who did the destruction.

[Alex4Martinez]

105. I disagree, looks like as they walk away from this at normal speed that they're just chillin'

Pink shirt guy is smoking a cigarette, it doesn't look like anything less than two friends walking.

That he said "this guys a peace office", doesn't change the way they interact. So I'm going to post it again here and ask you to watch it more carefully. Pay close attention between 10 and 20 seconds, and why hold a pizza box sideways? Prop?

Link to tweet

Oh and BTW, your last comment is straight up nasty in tone. I'm sorry to see that from you.

[SunSeeker]

107. So you hear pink guy warning protestors man in black is a cop, and you think they're in cahoots?

Pink shirt guy is not smoking a cigarette, he's smoking a blunt. He had his blunt and pizza box (munchies?) in hand when he first approached umbrella man, as umbrella man was smashing windows. They did not arrrive together. Pink shirt guy approached umbrella guy from a different direction from where umbrella guy was walking from. The umbrella man angrily tried to brush him off and pink shirt guy asked someone to "hold my blunt" so he could defend himself against umbrella guy, as shown in the video Keith Ellison tweeted:

Link to tweet

But umbrella guy decided to keep walking. So pink shirt guy kept his blunt and pizza box and kept following him. Pink shirt guy was probably a little high, which could explain his mellow demeanor, but he was repeatedly calling out umbrella guy as a police officer to the protestors, to warn them.


What's nasty is ignoring your own ears to accuse a black man of being in cahoots with an agent provocateur.

Why would pink shirt guy be walking along side him warning protestors that umbrella guy is a cop if they were in cahoots? Especially since umbrella guy is desperately trying to hide his identity behind an umbrella?

[MartyTheGreek]

118. I don't think so... Watch the vid where's he's breaking the windows...

Pizza Box guy is calling him out then follows him saying why...?

[Jamastiene]

67. In reality, they are latching onto anti-racist groups and infiltrating them

The groups themselves can be anti racist, but some who join them are there to cause trouble and are in reality far right racists there just to gain their trust and hurt any good they wanted to do. Their goal is to bust all anti-racist groups up. The anti-racist groups need to pay attention to who is joining them and make sure it is not another one just trying to join to cause trouble for them.

[geardaddy]

117. See this.

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/pkyb9b/far-right-extremists-are-hoping-to-turn-the-george-floyd-protests-into-a-new-civil-war?utm_campaign=sharebutton

[SunSeeker]

119. Yup. nt

[DBoon]

73. We need to start treating white supremacist organizations as violent criminal gangs

They need to be brought down just like the Mafia was largely brought down, through aggressive prosecution.

They are not a political movement. They do not get first amendment protection, any more than cocaine smugglers do.

I'm talking about Proud Boys, 3-percenters, the whole works.

[Dios Mio]

89. I've been living abroad for 10 years

I don’t recognise my country anymore. It really makes me very sad. Injustice was always there but I was surrounded by simple living labouring people. I thought we might evolve.

[Jose Garcia]

91. Local TV news now reporting that most arrestees were from MN

https://www.kare11.com/mobile/article/news/investigations/kare-11-investigates-records-show-arrests-mostly-minnesotans-as-george-floyd-protests-riots-continue-minneapolis-st-paul/89-73f3e0e8-0664-41d5-8d3e-4467d04da7cb

[LisaL]

93. I don't believe those claims to be accurate.

[nolabear]

98. You're right. He corrected it. I posted a retraction.

[Brainfodder]

95. The burning optics don't work in the sitting President's favor, ever?

Or the Mayor or the Governor, right?

The response however....

[colsohlibgal]

96. Suspected That

Knew it made no sense for the real protesters to attack the CNN building or burn down those buildings.

[RandySF]

97. That's been the experience over the years in Oakland.

[geardaddy]

106. It was terrifying here last night.

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/pkyb9b/far-right-extremists-are-hoping-to-turn-the-george-floyd-protests-into-a-new-civil-war?utm_campaign=sharebutton

[dflprincess]

109. Mayor Carter walked that stat back at the 6:30 pm presser

neither he nor Gov Walz could give a new statistic on who has been arrested and where they came from. They both said they would wait until things are calmer and they can examine the arrests reports more closely.

I did hear an unverified report that AIM members had caught a number of out state "Proud Boy" types but I'm not sure if that is accurate.

[nolabear]

113. Yes, I posted that it turned out not to be factual.

Hard to know whether to take it down or just do a correction.

[dflprincess]

114. Sorry, nolabear, I missed that. nt

[DashOneBravo]

111. They should claim white supremacy groups and antifa as domestic terrorists

[SayItLoud]

115. And flash forward to when tRUMP claims the election was rigged and he's not leaving. nt.

[RhodeIslandOne]

120. I'm skeptical that others embedded are not coming forward

Someone out there has to have heard rumblings of this over the last week.

I think a lot of these are dumb suburban kids bored and looking for action after having to lockdown.

[DIVINEprividence]

123. Umbrella man is the tip of the iceberg

The provocateurs from eyewitness accounts were outside agitators and they looked to me to be coordinated and trained. They appear to be white males. It is doubtful they are “left wing”. You would see a more diverse makeup, I am unfamiliar with any left wing group that does this or trains for this and I don't see a motive. Eyewitnesses reported seeing car loads of white males dressed like Call of Duty heading toward the areas where a lot of the fires started. The Governor of MN suspects white supremacist groups. I agree. This is in line with the “Accelerationist” white supremacists. They want to accelerate the collapse of liberal western democracies by sowing mayhem, chaos and destruction. They have every motive to start riots and pin them on AA. These are the folks who were calling for their members to spread the virus to AA if they caught it. Sick puppies.

https://www.justsecurity.org/70497/far-right-infiltrators-and-agitators-in-george-floyd-protests-indicators-of-white-supremacists/