How does anyone get to cite these nascent protests as cause for the virus re-spreading

[bigtree]

...when we all watched thousands of right-wing Trump supporters across the nation in the streets for months without any protection at all; no masks or face-coverings; no social distancing?

That's not to mention the states which opened manufacturing facilities, bars, restaurants, beaches, and the rest where people congregate in close quarters; all of these people openly flouting any protections against the virus spread. In my state, beaches were opened last week with out-of-staters mingling closely with Marylanders, and taking whatever they might have contracted back to their own states and communities; our own residents' safety compromised.

Those beachgoers, bar hoppers, folks eating out, all put their fellow residents at risk with their ignorant behavior; not just mingling around outdoors, as the protesters have been (many of them masked and distancing), but up close and intimate. We've seen the pics of the packed boardwalks, the crowded sands, the intimate bars, but we're supposed to believe that anti-police violence protests in the past few days will re-ignite the virus?

Don't fall for it.

[Fiendish Thingy]

1. They are both sources for superspreading events. Nt

[bigtree]

2. again

...most of the people at the protests were deliberately distancing and masked.

In addition, they were outdoors and mobile. That's no comparison at all to what I outlined.

[LisaL]

4. What evidence do you have that the virus doesn't spread outside?

From what I saw, there was no distancing. And a lot of people either didn't wear masks, or wore them incorrectly.

[bigtree]

6. that wasn't in anything I said

...comparing two days of protests to months of ignorant people protesting, and now opening their states for whatever goes is no comparison at all, and it's just wrong to start mharping on people who were visibly protecting themselves. Those protesters on the right openly flouted the virus and ANY protections.

And outside activity does have a reduced likelihood of spreading the virus.

[jimfields33]

8. It's 4 days today being five if there are any

And yes these protests are going to cause increase in positives and worse.

[bigtree]

12. not any more than the rest of the communities who have already ended their lockdowns

...and have been mingling in resturants, shops, and bars for weeks now.

I didn't hear a word from governors or other officials about those contacts, because it goes against their re-opening push. But black folks get out in the streets, and all of the sudden we hear warnings about infection rates gonna rise. It's bullshit.

[LisaL]

13. Events where people are too close to each other are going to spread the virus.

In fact, official freely admit that opening up is going to lead to more cases.
Yet you insist on arguing otherwise. An even where crowds gather in close proximity to each other is not going to spread virus? Complete and utter nonsense.

[jimfields33]

16. I guess we will wait and see

I’ve seen plenty of criticism about opening early. Positives happening in states that opened. Let’s hope that those protesting will not get the virus or take it home. In three weeks, we will know.

[womanofthehills]

37. Lots of info out there saying less spreading outdoors

Seems like airflow dissipates the virus - a breeze can banish aerosols.

[former9thward]

20. You outlined outdoor events also.

[bigtree]

24. most protesters I saw were masked

...unlike the images we all saw where people had no protection at all, and not a care.

In fact, in some demonstrations you can see onlookers without protection sitting close together, standing close together as protesters marched by. It's not fair, not right, not correct to single these protests out as a source o0f re-infection, when the much of the rest of society looking on isn't employing any because their state govt. is telling them they can operate with impunity

But not this group, with most I saw playing it safe. They've been unfairly tagged with this, and it needs to stop. Everyone else gets to run around town without rebuke, but these folks can't organize? It's sophistry.

[former9thward]

29. Well I have no problem with protests, masked or not.

CV-19 does not spread in outside environments easily. It is spread when people are close together, inside in areas of poor ventilation, when people are together for extended lengths of time. That is what public health people have told us. The lock-down folks have ignored the part about it not being spread easily outside.

[LisaL]

36. Does not spread as easily outside is not the same as does not spread.

And here you have many conditions for spread-people in close proximity, many not wearing masks or wearing them incorrectly, screaming or talking loudly (which releases viral droplets).

[bigtree]

41. the general population is also succeptable to this.

... the grocery where I work is under sdtate regs to reduce it's capacity by 50%.

That's still 450 people allowed in the store at once. How about condemning or scolding those shoppers? I won't hold my breath.

[demmiblue]

3. No kidding. Science doesn't have an agenda. n/t

[LisaL]

5. Apparently some people, like the OP, think it does.

[DBoon]

7. Coronavirus does not care if your cause is noble

It does not care if you are partying or marching for justice.

It spreads when any group of people are in close proximity.

Wearing masks reduces but does not eliminate the spread.

[bigtree]

9. how are they more at risk than the rest of the nation walking around like the virus has disappeared?

...citing protests is ludicrous when states allowing EVERYONE to mingle outside, most not giving a damn about protecting themselves.

Citing protesters is just opportunistic nonsense, obviously to blame black protesters for the effects of states' own decisions to end stay-at-home orders, in which contact between individuals isn't given a second-thought from all of the people scolding protesters.

[LisaL]

10. Yes, they are more at risk. They are in a crowd, in close proximity to each other, screaming which

releases viral particles.
You are the one who is spreading nonsense.
Virus doesn't care if protest is good or bad. If it finds an available host, it will spread.

[bigtree]

14. no more at risk than the general population allowed to resume business and recreation as usual

...and it's sophistry to suggest so. if there's a major concern, it's for the push to reopen, in general, not just because this specific group of people got out in the street.

It's not only a con to divert from the infection rate spiking because of reopenings, it's a ploy to stifle protests.

[LisaL]

15. Well, when protesters and their relatives start getting sick, you might get a clue.

[bigtree]

18. that's true of the general population of reopened states

...and not just specific to protests.

[bigtree]

21. like lining up at Costco, sidling up at a bar

...if all things were equal, we'd be seeing governors warning about the risk people are posing there, advising people to disperse.

But no, this is strictly for black protesters.

[demmiblue]

25. Lining up at Costco is a good thing. So is their mask policy.

And my governor has been outstanding on this issue. Other governors, not so much.

Again, though, Science doesn't have an agenda.

[Ms. Toad]

11. They are superspreading events.

Not "THE" cause, but they certainly will contribute.

Anyone with the ability to count to 14 can sort out which mass gatherings contributed to which new outbreaks.

[bigtree]

17. but we only focus on certain groups

...invisible in this debate are all of the people who openly flouted protections, not only in protests, but in daily interactions, especially after restrictions were relaxed in states.

It's opportunistic nonsense to sound alarms about some future re-infections from protests without putting them in the perspective of entire states reopening for business and entertainment.

[LisaL]

19. That's not true.

[Ms. Toad]

22. No. We discussed each of those as they happened.

The superspreading event happening right now are the protests, so that is what is being talked about now.

But we discussed Wisconsin voting, anti-mask protesters, pool parties in the Ozarks, mega-churches, businesses opening too early, the refusal of many individuals to wear masks, etc. as they occurred. Go back through the DU threads. I've commented on most of these, as have many others. No one felt the need at each new superspreading event to list all of the prior ones, nor is there any reason to do so now. Each, independently, is a cause for alarm - as to the spread of COVID 19.

I did note that many of the protesters were wearing masks, but a lot of those were not 6' from other protesters. Wearing masks is a secondary protection; standing 6' apart is a primary protection.

[bigtree]

23. no more so than the general population in these states, most residents not wearing ANY protection

...but today the outcry is that these protest are going to result is some re-infection.

That's just nonsense. That group with protection, however inadequate, should not be singled out, mas they have been today, by my governor in particular, more so than the general population these same officials released from restrictions without ANY accountability at all.

There's more chance of infection in unmasked lines outside Walmart or Costco than at these protests.

[Ms. Toad]

26. There is dramatic difference

between thousands of people, shoulder to shoulder at an event - than the lines outside of Walmart or Costco, which have 6' enforced distance between them. So you are scientifically wrong about shopping or standing in the regulated lines as to the risk of danger. (Nonetheless it is trivial to disprove your assertion that no one talked about them. You should be able to find a number of posts of mine about unmasked shoppers.)

I'm looking right now at an event in Youngstown - the vast majority of peole are shoulder (not 6'), and shoulting (the equivalent of a choir for a superspreading event. Perhaps 1 in two is wearing a mask.)

No one is singling these groups out any more than we singled out the Ozark pool parties last weekend, the unmasked shoppers, states opening too early, the "I don't want to wear a mask" protesters, etc. as they happened. This is what is happening now, so this is what is being talked about right now.

Your governor should have been calling out all of the others - whether they were or not, I have no knowledge. But my governor has been calling out all of the others as relevant to our state (unmasked shoppers, mask slacker protests, restaurants not enforcing rules, etc.)

[bigtree]

28. that's not what's happening here

Hogan claims to be 'concerned about a virus spike after the protests.'

That's opportunistic nonsense, as I stated in the op, for a governor who had allowed 100s of thousands to mingle at the beaches, in bars, in restaurants, etc. He's opened almost all of the state for anything goes, but he's singled out these protests, I believe, to cover for the virus spreading that's resulted from his own actions.

Apparently, there's not been any opportunity for a virus spike to originate in any of the countless situations around the state which his relaxing or ending restrictions has allowed. Just these groups of individuals have been cited, and it's just bullshit.

[Ms. Toad]

40. Your OP was not specific to a particular state - or about a specific governor's statements.

"How does anyone get to" and you started making scientifically incorrect assertions about the risks associated with these protests which are superspreading events (thousands of people gathering)

Your responses have morphed into complaints about governor's statements in general, then into complaints about your specific governor's response.

You may well have complaints about how your governor is responding if he is singling out protests. I don't know - I haven't paid attention to what your state and your governor have been doing. That just means he needs to be more diligent in point out all potential superspreading events, not that he needs to give this one a pass)

These protests are superspreading events (Places where people are densely packed and engaging in something that involves a lot of breathing, like singing or talking, are particularly risky for super spreading" https://www.cbsnews.com/news/super-spreader-coronavirus/) Being outdoors does lessen the risk, but gathering in large groups is much riskier than passing contact in a grocery store, or waiting 6' apart in the line to be let in.

Concern about the protests - from the perspective of spreading COVID 19 is justified.

They are not as a genera rule, being singled out as likely to create a surge. For example: (Ozarks party, North Carolina Speedway, Michigan anti-lockdown protests, Memorial Day events

[bigtree]

43. he's not the only one, so just, enough

...arguing that these groups, who have many visible adherants to protections against virus spread, are more negligent than the general population (most of whom have no protections at all), is a nonsense argument, on it's face.

Claiming, as my governor and others today have argued, that these protests will lead to a rise or spike in infections is opportunistic twaddle if not measured against the population as a whole and their behavior scrutinized as well. These protesters are not risking any more than the daily foot traffic on a busy city street, most of which is devoid of any protection whatsoever.

They don't deserve to be cynically singled out for spikes in infection that are already notched into these communities from several sources operating with impunity for months, as well as decisions made to reopen a majority of states ahead of CDC guidelines, and I made that clear in the op. You narrowed the argument, not me.

[Ms. Toad]

44. They are not being singled out (cynically or otherwise).

I didn't narrow the argument. You started with a broad statement.

How does anyone get to cite these nascent protests as cause for the virus re-spreadin...when we all watched thousands of right-wing Trump supporters across the nation in the streets for months without any protection at all; no masks or face-coverings; no social distancing?

I continued to respond to the broad assertions you made until you narrowed it to your governor, asseting that

"for a governor who had allowed 100s of thousands to mingle at the beaches, in bars, in restaurants, etc. He's opened almost all of the state for anything goes, but he's singled out these protests, I believe, to cover for the virus spreading that's resulted from his own actions."

I, and many others ALSO complained about all of those other things. I gave you several examples of other similar events that triggered warnings, at the time they were happening, that they would likely result in a surge. All of which were published statements about those events. There are tons more - I just grabbed a few to prove my point. Since I've been warning here, and elsewhere, about the risks of reopening to soon, the math involved in reopening now, the lack of public mask-wearing, the protests by the mask-slacker crowds, the parties on the beaches and in the Ozarks, the races, all of it. And I'm part of "anyone," it's not opportunistic twaddle.

Each event, independently, has the ability to trigger a surge. It's not which one trigger surges - it's both/all. And people who are paying attention to COVID 19 are warning about all of them. Not just these protests.

[Hekate]

27. Big crowds jostling. People yelling. Spittle & droplets flying from mouth to mouth & lung to lung...

Inhalation of infectious droplets. Do this for hours. Go home and incubate.

Now tell me what this describes: the Lake of the Ozarks, Sunday at a mega-church, baseball at a big stadium, MAGA-rally, Magic Mountain theme park?

Do you recognize that the protests and riots this week qualify as well?

A virus does not know or care if your cause is noble.

This country is in deep shit.

[bigtree]

30. do you recognize that most of the states have relaxed or ended restrictions weeks ago?

...people doing whatever they please, mostly wherever they want, but sure, let's single out these protests as the cause for a virus spike.

Nonsense.

[Hekate]

33. Not singling out any one of them. But while DU for weeks has been self-righteously...

...mocking crowd behavior among the ignorant, we need to recognize crowd behavior among the enraged and grieving will have a similar result as far as spiking infections. It's an unintended consequence. It's not in any sense the sole cause.

[bigtree]

35. this is about the public shaming and scapegoating of protesters

...for decisions these governors, like my own, made to reopen their bars, beaches and restaurants.

Of course, they need to recognize the risks. Of course they have potential to spread infection. But how cynical and self-serving is it to open your state weeks earlier, including beaches to out-of state visitors, and then try and pin some predictable spike in infections on black people protesting?

I usually don't speak this plainly, but I am seriously pissed at this.

[Squinch]

31. Jesus. No one is falling for anything. It is a FACT that the protests, along with

all the other things you mentioned, will spread the virus.

[bigtree]

32. have the potential to spread

...and no more so than the population of the rest of the state as people move past the relaxed restrictions.

So why single out this group of protesters for some potential virus 'spike?' So quick to point out the chance of spreading the virus, but completely oblivious to thye fact that the rest of the state is doing what they please without being blamed for anything.

Did you see my governor's remarks today?

Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan (R) said Sunday he is a "little bit concerned" about protests sparked by the death of George Floyd potentially leading to a spike in coronavirus cases.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/hogan-concerned-about-coronavirus-spike-after-protests/ar-BB14QmoU?ocid=uxbndlbing

But not with allowing thousands to flock to beaches and boardwalks. It's bullshit.

[Squinch]

34. SMDH. A fact is a fact. The protests will result in increased spread.

No. It's not bullshit. It doesn't matter what anyone is saying, and it doesn't matter what your politics are. The virus will spread through the protests.

[bigtree]

38. some may well contact the virus, but to blame a 'spike' in infections on these nascent protests

...is political chicanery, and it's as plain as anything what this is about for the likes of my republican governor who is predictably looking for a scapegoat for his own decision to open the state against CDC guidelines.

Here's a group of people in open air, where experts have said the risk is greatly reduced, many masked, and they're cited before the throngs who went to beaches without any protection or distancing at all. Don't tell me that's not bullshit to single out this group protesting for a few days now as responsible for the 'spike' the man complaining himself caused. Don't tell me that's not bullshit.

[Squinch]

39. This is just a fucking absurd assertion. Good bye.

[ecstatic]

42. A lot of the protesters are wearing masks. Nt